SI Express Route Public Hearing Request, M4 Truncation, July 2018 Schedule Changes

[checkmatechamp13]

Manhattan peak stops and off-peak stops are now available. They eliminated Church Street & Park Place, with it's convenient transfer to the  and  

http://nymta.civicconnect.com/sites/default/files/manhattan-peak-stops.pdf

http://nymta.civicconnect.com/sites/default/files/manhattan-off-peak-stops.pdf

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Manhattan peak stops and off-peak stops are now available. They eliminated Church Street & Park Place, with it's convenient transfer to the  and  

http://nymta.civicconnect.com/sites/default/files/manhattan-peak-stops.pdf

http://nymta.civicconnect.com/sites/default/files/manhattan-off-peak-stops.pdf

I haven't been in that area in a while, but how is the transfer at the Fulton complex? It looks like that's what they're encouraging instead.

I'm surprised that they are not adding an express stop in the vicinity of Hudson Yards; do they expect people on those Jersey buses to double back on the ?

[checkmatechamp13]

On 5/19/2018 at 5:38 PM, bobtehpanda said:

I haven't been in that area in a while, but how is the transfer at the Fulton complex? It looks like that's what they're encouraging instead.

I'm surprised that they are not adding an express stop in the vicinity of Hudson Yards; do they expect people on those Jersey buses to double back on the ?

From Church Street, horrible. You have to get off at Vesey, walk to Broadway, and then either walk through the back end of the  platform to reach the  or cross Broadway and walk through that crowded mezzanine to reach it. And then the  are even further east.

Thankfully, I won't need to be making that commute on a regular basis, but what I would do if they eliminated the Park Place stop is either walk (on the street level, not through the  platform which is the same length but requires more stairs) to Park Place from Vesey Street, or get off at Chambers (and either catch the 8th Avenue Line there, or walk a block west for the 7th Avenue Line, but then I'm committed to that one line). 

Another thing to consider is that it's towards the end of the line, so most of the people have gotten off already, so you're just saving a little bit of time for those heading to Chambers or Worth Street). 

And they said they were primarily focused on serving present-day destinations, so they didn't add anything near Hudson Yards.

[bobtehpanda]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

From Church Street, horrible. You have to get off at Vesey, walk to Broadway, and then either walk through the back end of the  platform to reach the  or cross Broadway and walk through that crowded mezzanine to reach it. And then the  are even further east.

Thankfully, I won't need to be making that commute on a regular basis, but what I would do if they eliminated the Park Place stop is either walk (on the street level, not through the  platform which is the same length but requires more stairs) to Park Place from Vesey Street, or get off at Chambers (and either catch the 8th Avenue Line there, or walk a block west for the 7th Avenue Line, but then I'm committed to that one line). 

Another thing to consider is that it's towards the end of the line, so most of the people have gotten off already, so you're just saving a little bit of time for those heading to Chambers or Worth Street). 

And they said they were primarily focused on serving present-day destinations, so they didn't add anything near Hudson Yards.

Makes sense.

It's a bit short sighted given Hudson Yards is projected to be the busiest station based on exits and entries, but I guess we can revisit that when everybody complains in however many years.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 5/19/2018 at 12:57 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Manhattan peak stops and off-peak stops are now available. They eliminated Church Street & Park Place, with it's convenient transfer to the  and  

http://nymta.civicconnect.com/sites/default/files/manhattan-peak-stops.pdf

http://nymta.civicconnect.com/sites/default/files/manhattan-off-peak-stops.pdf

I think the amount of stops is good both peak and off-peak. My question is though, has anyone at any of these workshops or hearings asked about traffic signal priority for express bus and if so, what's the response been? It's something I plan bringing up for our workshops in Riverdale.  It is long overdue and the fact that not one express bus has it is troubling.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 5/23/2018 at 10:57 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think the amount of stops is good both peak and off-peak. My question is though, has anyone at any of these workshops or hearings asked about traffic signal priority for express bus and if so, what's the response been? It's something I plan bringing up for our workshops in Riverdale.  It is long overdue and the fact that not one express bus has it is troubling.

 

I'm not sure if the express buses are equipped with TSP transponders. I agree with you that express buses should be equipped with the transponders so that they can take advantage of any TSP implementation on a corresponding local corridor. (For example, if the S79 has it, then the X1 and all the other Hylan express variants should be able to take advantage of it).

Aside from the obvious (people complaining about their stop being cut on either the Staten Island side or the Manhattan side), the other issue brought up was enforcement of the HOV lanes to ensure that they move only the vehicles they're supposed to be moving, and do so quickly and efficiently.

[checkmatechamp13]

I attended the community board meeting today, and this is the information I gathered from it:

Supposedly they did an actual origin survey to figure out where people were actually going to/from on the Manhattan side (e.g. If they boarded at 5th Avenue & 40th Street, did they actually work in that immediate area or did they work over by say, Times Square?) and in that survey, they found that a decent amount of people worked over by Madison/5th and would benefit from having the route run on the East Side. Of course, that's of little comfort to current West Side riders.

Major point: They plan on implementing a 3-legged transfer on express routes (not sure if it's just SIM routes or all express routes). Basically, if the second leg of your trip is on an express bus, you'll get an extra transfer (so you can do local-express-subway or local-express-express or subway-express-local). So in that case, SIM31 riders won't be penalized fare-wise if they choose to take the S61/91-SIM3-subway or SIM31-SIM32/33-subway.

Another thing that they mentioned is that the span on the rush hour routes wouldn't be uniform, but there would be a minimum span, and the busier rush hour routes would run longer than that (on top of demand-related issues, they also want to be fair to the people taking those routes now). So the SIM8 would run until approximately 9pm. The question is, since some areas are served by routes to different segments of Manhattan, would all of them run the longer span? (e.g. The X12 currently serves Mariners Harbor and covers Downtown, Greenwich Village, and Midtown. The SIM34 should definitely run late, but running the SIM30 & SIM33 late might be a little overkill). I'd be curious if they plan on having a sort of tiered system (lower-ridership routes have the last runs from the terminal at 7pm, and higher-ridership routes have the last runs at 9pm). To be fair, after 7pm, you can probably run some of those routes on 30 minute headways, just to say you have the coverage (which is how it already is on most of those routes anyway)

They mentioned something about the Water Street buses (I think they mentioned they would have them start at Park Place in the PM rush. I could be completely wrong, though, especially since the list of Manhattan stops says otherwise). Also, they're restoring some stops on the Staten Island side (I know they mentioned Richmond & Morani specifically).

They also mentioned that weekday service would increase by 10%, Saturday service would increase by 24%, and Sunday service would increase by 29% (not sure of the exact numbers, but I think those were them). I forget if they were referring to the number of trips operated or how exactly they came about those numbers. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I attended the community board meeting today, and this is the information I gathered from it:

Supposedly they did an actual origin survey to figure out where people were actually going to/from on the Manhattan side (e.g. If they boarded at 5th Avenue & 40th Street, did they actually work in that immediate area or did they work over by say, Times Square?) and in that survey, they found that a decent amount of people worked over by Madison/5th and would benefit from having the route run on the East Side. Of course, that's of little comfort to current West Side riders.

Major point: They plan on implementing a 3-legged transfer on express routes (not sure if it's just SIM routes or all express routes). Basically, if the second leg of your trip is on an express bus, you'll get an extra transfer (so you can do local-express-subway or local-express-express or subway-express-local). So in that case, SIM31 riders won't be penalized fare-wise if they choose to take the S61/91-SIM3-subway or SIM31-SIM32/33-subway.

Another thing that they mentioned is that the span on the rush hour routes wouldn't be uniform, but there would be a minimum span, and the busier rush hour routes would run longer than that (on top of demand-related issues, they also want to be fair to the people taking those routes now). So the SIM8 would run until approximately 9pm. The question is, since some areas are served by routes to different segments of Manhattan, would all of them run the longer span? (e.g. The X12 currently serves Mariners Harbor and covers Downtown, Greenwich Village, and Midtown. The SIM34 should definitely run late, but running the SIM30 & SIM33 late might be a little overkill). I'd be curious if they plan on having a sort of tiered system (lower-ridership routes have the last runs from the terminal at 7pm, and higher-ridership routes have the last runs at 9pm). To be fair, after 7pm, you can probably run some of those routes on 30 minute headways, just to say you have the coverage (which is how it already is on most of those routes anyway)

They mentioned something about the Water Street buses (I think they mentioned they would have them start at Park Place in the PM rush. I could be completely wrong, though, especially since the list of Manhattan stops says otherwise). Also, they're restoring some stops on the Staten Island side (I know they mentioned Richmond & Morani specifically).

They also mentioned that weekday service would increase by 10%, Saturday service would increase by 24%, and Sunday service would increase by 29% (not sure of the exact numbers, but I think those were them). I forget if they were referring to the number of trips operated or how exactly they came about those numbers. 

Sorry but they need to start offering service until at least 8pm on the so called rush hour only routes if they're really serious about giving people service. A lot of office workers work late and it's great having a 19:45 or 20:00 bus. I used the X12 a lot for that reason and it got a lot of riders. This whole 9-5 thing doesn't cut it anymore. I hope they get that. They also need to run enough service on MLK and President's Day. They do a HORRIBLE job on that end on Staten Island express bus wise. Those days are now optional days for a lot of people and I go in because we get a lot of work on those days, as do other people.

[checkmatechamp13]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sorry but they need to start offering service until at least 8pm on the so called rush hour only routes if they're really serious about giving people service. A lot of office workers work late and it's great having a 19:45 or 20:00 bus. I used the X12 a lot for that reason and it got a lot of riders. This whole 9-5 thing doesn't cut it anymore. I hope they get that. They also need to run enough service on MLK and President's Day. They do a HORRIBLE job on that end on Staten Island express bus wise. Those days are now optional days for a lot of people and I go in because we get a lot of work on those days, as do other people.

That's why they mentioned the minimum span. They said that all routes should be running until at least 19:00, but the busier routes will run later (ending around 21:00). And then of course, there's the 4 official off-peak routes.

The holidays are a good point, and it would be nice if they actually published the schedule instead of having us infer it from BusTime. I didn't think to bring it up, but it's definitely worth mentioning. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's why they mentioned the minimum span. They said that all routes should be running until at least 19:00, but the busier routes will run later (ending around 21:00). And then of course, there's the 4 official off-peak routes.

The holidays are a good point, and it would be nice if they actually published the schedule instead of having us infer it from BusTime. 

19:00 is a start. Certainly better than 18:15 or 18:30.  You have to clean up your office, run to the elevator and hope you get to the lobby to run out and run to the bus stop. 21:00 is good for the others for sure. Now to see the actual frequencies and service. They can do this just fine running 30 minute headways on most of those routes. It won't break the bank.

[limitednyc]

11 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I attended the community board meeting today, and this is the information I gathered from it:

Supposedly they did an actual origin survey to figure out where people were actually going to/from on the Manhattan side (e.g. If they boarded at 5th Avenue & 40th Street, did they actually work in that immediate area or did they work over by say, Times Square?) and in that survey, they found that a decent amount of people worked over by Madison/5th and would benefit from having the route run on the East Side. Of course, that's of little comfort to current West Side riders.

Major point: They plan on implementing a 3-legged transfer on express routes (not sure if it's just SIM routes or all express routes). Basically, if the second leg of your trip is on an express bus, you'll get an extra transfer (so you can do local-express-subway or local-express-express or subway-express-local). So in that case, SIM31 riders won't be penalized fare-wise if they choose to take the S61/91-SIM3-subway or SIM31-SIM32/33-subway.

Another thing that they mentioned is that the span on the rush hour routes wouldn't be uniform, but there would be a minimum span, and the busier rush hour routes would run longer than that (on top of demand-related issues, they also want to be fair to the people taking those routes now). So the SIM8 would run until approximately 9pm. The question is, since some areas are served by routes to different segments of Manhattan, would all of them run the longer span? (e.g. The X12 currently serves Mariners Harbor and covers Downtown, Greenwich Village, and Midtown. The SIM34 should definitely run late, but running the SIM30 & SIM33 late might be a little overkill). I'd be curious if they plan on having a sort of tiered system (lower-ridership routes have the last runs from the terminal at 7pm, and higher-ridership routes have the last runs at 9pm). To be fair, after 7pm, you can probably run some of those routes on 30 minute headways, just to say you have the coverage (which is how it already is on most of those routes anyway)

They mentioned something about the Water Street buses (I think they mentioned they would have them start at Park Place in the PM rush. I could be completely wrong, though, especially since the list of Manhattan stops says otherwise). Also, they're restoring some stops on the Staten Island side (I know they mentioned Richmond & Morani specifically).

They also mentioned that weekday service would increase by 10%, Saturday service would increase by 24%, and Sunday service would increase by 29% (not sure of the exact numbers, but I think those were them). I forget if they were referring to the number of trips operated or how exactly they came about those numbers. 

anything on weekend span on the sim2.

[checkmatechamp13]

6 hours ago, limitednyc said:

anything on weekend span on the sim2.

No information on the spans and schedules for any routes. Supposedly, if they won't want to screw the people over, they plan on running the span of the longest existing route (which on the weekends, the X17 doesn't run that late, so I hope that doesn't mean the SIM2 will end at 9-9:30pm on the weekends). 

[checkmatechamp13]

Also, big news: The start date is August 19th. After the June board meeting, they will shift into "Public Outreach" mode, and start putting a Trip Planner on the website (which means presumably they'll have the schedules finalized then), and more detailed maps and so on.

[Future ENY OP]

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Also, big news: The start date is August 19th. After the June board meeting, they will shift into "Public Outreach" mode, and start putting a Trip Planner on the website (which means presumably they'll have the schedules finalized then), and more detailed maps and so on.

Damm. Mid-August. This is gonna be interesting. I know this is early. However, any depot assignments for the fore mentioned lines? 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

31 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Damm. Mid-August. This is gonna be interesting. I know this is early. However, any depot assignments for the fore mentioned lines? 

Well, it's better than September, when everyone is going back to school, or going back to work from vacation, or whatnot. Gives people time to prepare before actually having to make their commutes.

[S78 via Hylan]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Damm. Mid-August. This is gonna be interesting. I know this is early. However, any depot assignments for the fore mentioned lines? 

If I had to guess, the routes would most likely remain where they are. 

It should look something like this:

Castleton: SIM3, SIM22, SM32, SIM35

Charleston: SIM2, SIM4, SIM8, SIM25, SIM26, SIM31

Meredith: SIM15, SIM30, SIM33, SIM34

Yukon: SIM1, SIM5, SIM6, SIM7, SIM10

Also, I’ve been chatting with my Yukon B/O friend, and he said that the operators would soon be trained to drive and learn the new routes. 

He also said that August 19 could be a system pick for the Staten Island division, which would run through January. Not fully confirmed, though.

[SevenEleven]

August 19th is definitely the start of this system/Fall pick till January. I did the first part of training over the weekend. They are still tweaking the route paths and adding back stops (most notably the stops along the X10). The Super Express P&R trips will leave every 20 mins instead of 60 mins. There are a few other changes in the works that I can't speak about. Schedules and depot assignments will be released sometime next month, when we get to picking.

[S78 via Hylan]

43 minutes ago, SevenEleven said:

August 19th is definitely the start of this system/Fall pick till January. I did the first part of training over the weekend. They are still tweaking the route paths and adding back stops (most notably the stops along the X10). The Super Express P&R trips will leave every 20 mins instead of 60 mins. There are a few other changes in the works that I can't speak about. Schedules and depot assignments will be released sometime next month, when we get to picking.

I hope they don’t add back too many stops.  Express routes shouldn’t be stopping every 2-3 blocks on the island like the local buses do.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

August 19th is definitely the start of this system/Fall pick till January. I did the first part of training over the weekend. They are still tweaking the route paths and adding back stops (most notably the stops along the X10). The Super Express P&R trips will leave every 20 mins instead of 60 mins. There are a few other changes in the works that I can't speak about. Schedules and depot assignments will be released sometime next month, when we get to picking.

Some of this sounds good.  I just hope that they're truly committed to these schedules and that they continue to "tweak" them to maximize the customer experience. One of the things that annoyed me with express bus service on Staten Island was the "unofficial cuts". That is, the driver calls out sick and they don't replace the driver, or you get a driver that has no clue about the route or where to go.  If they can't provide the trip when the driver is out and provide it consistently, just don't run the trip officially.  All of this missing bus nonsense is just a waste.  Cut the trip and move on if it's too costly. Something else they should continue are these workshops.  I would argue they should be meeting with elected officials either quarterly or twice a year to review how express buses are performing and to get constant feedback.  Arguing that they need to adjust service to meet demand isn't cutting it.  This in my mind is aggressive and shows that they want ridership to increase and remain at a high level.  In 2019, we're looking at another fare increase, and I strongly believe that if they don't start delivering with on-time performance and faster service, we're going to see more losses in ridership as people switch to Uber and other services.  I predict the base fare going up to $7.00 each way.  $14.00 a day... That's asking a lot.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A new development... The  now wants to attempt to restore lost X18 express bus service by extending the SIM30 to these areas...

Quote

Additionally, though the network redesign was generally constrained to neighborhoods that currently have express bus service, a branch of the SIM30 route is proposed to operate to Stapleton, Clifton, and Rosebank as an experimental pilot. These areas currently do not have express bus service.

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/180618_1000_transit-bus.pdf

Page 192

[lupojohn]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:57 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I have to say (not directed at you - a general comment to what I've been reading which irks me) I really don't support any truncation/splitting of the M101 and I don't know why so many people here keep suggesting it. It's like why do we need to keep screwing over riders and FORCING the damn subway down their throats? There are A LOT of disabled people and others that prefer the M101 and need it go from East to West.  We should be looking at why lines are failing, not just splitting them up and thinking that's going to do the trick.  It isn't. 

My proposal looks at how to make the current line WORK.  I think it can with the following:

-Enforce bus lanes along all corridors

-Find a way to eliminate/reduce all of the double and triple parking along Lexington.  That alone is what kills the route and leads to so much bunching. 3rd Avenue is wide because it once was a two way street. Lexington is much narrower and all of the double and triple parking is just insane. It needs to be dealt with.  Splitting the route in two doesn't address the real elephant in the room. You'd STILL have insane bunching.

-Stop having the damn operators switch at 99th street. It kills way too much time.  Extremely frustrating. They should switch drivers elsewhere.  

-Better management out of Tuskegee.  Some drivers just don't give a damn out of that depot and management needs to get them in line.  More courteous service with buses making an effort to stay on time. As it currently stands, I think drivers are left out to hang... No help along Lex, bus lanes not enforced.  It's a mess.  The M101, M102 and M103 all need help. Too much bunching and customers are irate and I don't blame them.

The amount of countdown clocks that have now popped up along Lex and 3rd Avenues says a lot.  

This is probably the only time I am ever going to say this, but I completely agree with your post here (haha). As someone who lives near the M101 (as well as the M3 and M4. Others too, but they have no consequence on this thread), that driver switch is annoying pain in the ass. Months ago, I had a driver who didn't even know the signage properly (he didn't know it was a 101). I told him when I got off at the last stop, he tried to get nasty with me, but I shut that down. As I said in the other thread, the 101 is long overdue for SBS.

[Q43LTD]

Would these new Staten Island routes keep the 7x codes or get something completely different?

[R68OnBroadway]

57 minutes ago, lupojohn said:

This is probably the only time I am ever going to say this, but I completely agree with your post here (haha). As someone who lives near the M101 (as well as the M3 and M4. Others too, but they have no consequence on this thread), that driver switch is annoying pain in the ass. Months ago, I had a driver who didn't even know the signage properly (he didn't know it was a 101). I told him when I got off at the last stop, he tried to get nasty with me, but I shut that down. As I said in the other thread, the 101 is long overdue for SBS.

As I am writing this, there is not a single SB M101 between 49th and Cooper Union/Astor , and there are no NB M101s between Astor and 57th as well as none between 99th and 183rd. Meanwhile there are three between 183rd and 193rd. Good service my a**.

(They should really split the M101 at 116th or 106th with overlap- the route is too long and it would kill that driver switch.)

[FamousNYLover]

I don't agree with M4 bus terminated at 41st St. Maybe Q32 bus should have terminated at 32nd St/5th-Mad Avs instead of 41st St where proposal M4 bus terminates.

 

[IAlam]

Idk if this was mentioned but I saw posters on QV buses saying the Q27 will go back to its original route on Bell Blvd, starting July 2nd.