Plan To Restructure The NYC Bus System

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

1984 was the year they reconfigured the bus network in The Bronx.....

Oh I see... I plan to be at the ones for Riverdale. I have a LOT to say as do many of the people I ride with in Riverdale.  They all tell me how much better service used to be under Liberty Lines and I can't say I disagree with them. We get good service for maybe a few months, and then all hell breaks loose until we file a ton of complaints and start hounding our elected officials. There are some drivers that I just can't stand to take and will actually avoid their buses because they are ALWAYS late and never get back on time because they're afraid of being written up and that has to stop.  That's coming from management and drivers have to understand the importance of being on-time.  Leave the terminal on-time and arrive at the last pick-up stop  on time just like the other drivers.

One of the guys I'm referring to I got on Saturday at 230th and Broadway (had to get a Metrocard since I was off a few days) because he was almost 20 minutes late.  When I saw who the driver was I knew he was late, so I checked the BxM1 schedule and sure enough... Late. I have NEVER had him and been anywhere on-time.  NEVER.  Just crazy.

There's a few other things that need to addressed:

-New signage for Super Express BxM1 buses that skip Spuyten Duyvil in the mornings. I can't tell you how many drivers have gone down Henry Hudson Parkway instead coming down Riverdale Avenue after 239th which totally screws over people waiting at Riverdale and 236th, and makes the commute longer unnecessarily.

-Longer BxM18 morning hours.  We'd like service until 08:30 or 09:00 from Riverdale. 

-More off-peak BxM1 and BxM2 service on weekends.  Hourly service starts far too early, particularly going back to Riverdale, and often times buses are 20 - 30 minutes late, which means elongated commutes.

-30 minute headways on Sundays most of the day with service starting an hour earlier on the BxM1 and BxM2 and the BxM1 finishing at 23:40 the way it used to back to Riverdale.

 

[N6 Limited]

So they mentioned they're doing the Bronx next, but when are they doing the Staten Island local buses?

[Dan1]

8 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

So they mentioned they're doing the Bronx next, but when are they doing the Staten Island local buses?

It's my understanding that at least part of the SI Local Bus study was started at the same time the express network study began back in 2016. The MTA was looking at SI employment centers like the hospitals and the new employment center on the west shore, as well the colleges and the shopping areas and the new and old shopping centers. Beyond that the MTA is constrained by SI's limited arterial road network and the lack of a borough-wide street grid.

About 20 years ago the Dongan Hills SIR station was made wheelchair accessible. IIRC the original plan was to extend the S52 eastward along Seaview Avenue to Richmond Road returning via Garretson Ave enabling the S52 to serve that SIR station. The plan to extend the S52 fell off the MTA's radar over time which seems to be a pattern with the MTA.  Part of the problem may have been that Seaview and Garretson Avenues are only about 35' wide in those sections. Another issue is that Seaview and Garretson are residential streets and neighbors and elected may have objected to the plan.

The lack of an east-west cross-island route is not easily solved. Rockland Avenue can handle buses but narrow Travis Avenue, which frequently floods out, is not a good choice for a bus route.

[Lawrence St]

Weren't there originally plans for the Bx52 +Select bus to LaGuardia from 3rd Av-149th St? 

[checkmatechamp13]

11 hours ago, Dan1 said:

It's my understanding that at least part of the SI Local Bus study was started at the same time the express network study began back in 2016. The MTA was looking at SI employment centers like the hospitals and the new employment center on the west shore, as well the colleges and the shopping areas and the new and old shopping centers. Beyond that the MTA is constrained by SI's limited arterial road network and the lack of a borough-wide street grid.

About 20 years ago the Dongan Hills SIR station was made wheelchair accessible. IIRC the original plan was to extend the S52 eastward along Seaview Avenue to Richmond Road returning via Garretson Ave enabling the S52 to serve that SIR station. The plan to extend the S52 fell off the MTA's radar over time which seems to be a pattern with the MTA.  Part of the problem may have been that Seaview and Garretson Avenues are only about 35' wide in those sections. Another issue is that Seaview and Garretson are residential streets and neighbors and elected may have objected to the plan.

The lack of an east-west cross-island route is not easily solved. Rockland Avenue can handle buses but narrow Travis Avenue, which frequently floods out, is not a good choice for a bus route.

The SIR is west of the S52's southern terminal.

In any case, one of the excuses the MTA used to use a lot was that these "people would complain" if they sent a route down a certain street, even if they hadn't actually suggested it to the community boards or anything of the sort. (So in other words, they were using imaginary people as a reason to do nothing)

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Weren't there originally plans for the Bx52 +Select bus to LaGuardia from 3rd Av-149th St? 

I believe it was supposed to run from Fordham to LGA.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

23 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Anything details spilled yet?

 

Are you asking  whether the MTA has a pre-determined plan and if anybody has any details on that plan? The answers are probably no and no, because the process is supposed to be just about to begin. If they're truly "starting from a blank slate" (to use Andy Byford's words) in each borough, then there should be lots of community meetings and workshops the way there were for the S. I. expresses.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

23 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh I see... I plan to be at the ones for Riverdale. I have a LOT to say as do many of the people I ride with in Riverdale.  They all tell me how much better service used to be under Liberty Lines and I can't say I disagree with them. We get good service for maybe a few months, and then all hell breaks loose until we file a ton of complaints and start hounding our elected officials. There are some drivers that I just can't stand to take and will actually avoid their buses because they are ALWAYS late and never get back on time because they're afraid of being written up and that has to stop.  That's coming from management and drivers have to understand the importance of being on-time.  Leave the terminal on-time and arrive at the last pick-up stop  on time just like the other drivers.

One of the guys I'm referring to I got on Saturday at 230th and Broadway (had to get a Metrocard since I was off a few days) because he was almost 20 minutes late.  When I saw who the driver was I knew he was late, so I checked the BxM1 schedule and sure enough... Late. I have NEVER had him and been anywhere on-time.  NEVER.  Just crazy.

There's a few other things that need to addressed:

-New signage for Super Express BxM1 buses that skip Spuyten Duyvil in the mornings. I can't tell you how many drivers have gone down Henry Hudson Parkway instead coming down Riverdale Avenue after 239th which totally screws over people waiting at Riverdale and 236th, and makes the commute longer unnecessarily.

-Longer BxM18 morning hours.  We'd like service until 08:30 or 09:00 from Riverdale. 

-More off-peak BxM1 and BxM2 service on weekends.  Hourly service starts far too early, particularly going back to Riverdale, and often times buses are 20 - 30 minutes late, which means elongated commutes.

-30 minute headways on Sundays most of the day with service starting an hour earlier on the BxM1 and BxM2 and the BxM1 finishing at 23:40 the way it used to back to Riverdale.

 

They're supposed to be "starting from a blank slate" (i.e. as if there were zero service currently),  so any current route you think of might end up in a different form and/or with a different number.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

They're supposed to be "starting from a blank slate" (i.e. as if there were zero service currently),  so any current route you think of might end up in a different form and/or with a different number.

They're also supposed to listening to feedback from the actual riders at workshops and hearings. There is no reason to change the routing for the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18.

[N6 Limited]

Shouldn't they also talk with community groups from different boroughs concurrently to get an idea of which interborough routes should exist? (ie. routes between Bronx & Queens, Brooklyn & Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island, etc.)

 

[JeremiahC99]

On 5/22/2018 at 8:44 PM, N6 Limited said:

Shouldn't they also talk with community groups from different boroughs concurrently to get an idea of which interborough routes should exist? (ie. routes between Bronx & Queens, Brooklyn & Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island, etc.)

 

I hope they do that. After all, it would be nice for them to get more routes travelling between boroughs like Brooklyn and Queens for easier access to airports like John F Kennedy Airport.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 5/22/2018 at 8:44 PM, N6 Limited said:

Shouldn't they also talk with community groups from different boroughs concurrently to get an idea of which interborough routes should exist? (ie. routes between Bronx & Queens, Brooklyn & Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island, etc.)

By definition, any examination of western Bronx routes means consulting with upper Manhattan communities as well.

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

By definition, any examination of western Bronx routes means consulting with upper Manhattan communities as well.

I won’t be surprised if that should be the case, especially since some communities may want to keep the inter borough routes that exist today, especially since Marble Hill directly borders the Bronx. Hopefully more routes between the Bronx and Manhattan are created.

 

Also, what magic pill did they find that can make the process of restructuring the entire city bus route network faster so that they can get done by 2021: The Remix Transit Planning software.

[checkmatechamp13]

4 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I won’t be surprised if that should be the case, especially since some communities may want to keep the inter borough routes that exist today, especially since Marble Hill directly borders the Bronx. Hopefully more routes between the Bronx and Manhattan are created.

Also, what magic pill did they find that can make the process of restructuring the entire city bus route network faster so that they can get done by 2021: The Remix Transit Planning software.

2

Probably a mixture of better software, and also better internal management (Tighter deadlines and more strict adherence to them).

[JeremiahC99]

27 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Probably a mixture of better software, and also better internal management (Tighter deadlines and more strict adherence to them).

What’s software do you think they will use?

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

What’s software do you think they will use?

I don't think it really matters. For all we know, they could be developing their own in-house software. 

To give you an idea, the SI bus study was launched in October 2015 and was supposed to include both the local and express buses. Around late February/early March 2016, they had a Hackathon where people submitted codes and ideas. Then it took all the way until June 2017 for them to release a plan (for rush hours), when they already had the general concept in mind (which was to separate Downtown and Midtown services). They had public meetings in October 2017, and the public responded negatively, so in March 2018, they released an updated plan, and tweaked it further for their board presentation in April.

So to me, the major delay between March 2016 and June 2017 was really what was unreasonable, considering they already had the general idea in mind. I mean shoot, when I saw the plan in June, I was able to come up with ideas to improve it on the spot, but they took their time and tweaked the original plan until October, and then spent another 5 months changing it when they released the public response wasn't as favorable as they were expecting. 

[JeremiahC99]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I don't think it really matters. For all we know, they could be developing their own in-house software. 

To give you an idea, the SI bus study was launched in October 2015 and was supposed to include both the local and express buses. Around late February/early March 2016, they had a Hackathon where people submitted codes and ideas. Then it took all the way until June 2017 for them to release a plan (for rush hours), when they already had the general concept in mind (which was to separate Downtown and Midtown services). They had public meetings in October 2017, and the public responded negatively, so in March 2018, they released an updated plan, and tweaked it further for their board presentation in April.

So to me, the major delay between March 2016 and June 2017 was really what was unreasonable, considering they already had the general idea in mind. I mean shoot, when I saw the plan in June, I was able to come up with ideas to improve it on the spot, but they took their time and tweaked the original plan until October, and then spent another 5 months changing it when they released the public response wasn't as favorable as they were expecting. 

I hope they make new software that can make this planning process go faster (i.e Remix Enhanced)