Recent Bus News and Opinion

[BrooklynBus]

The Comptroller's SBS Press Release showing slow speeds and unreliable service with links to report:

https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/comptroller-stringer-releases-alarming-analysis-and-rider-survey-of-select-bus-service-showing-poor-bus-lane-enforcement-slow-speeds-and-unreliable-service/

Also notice that the Comptroller's survey shows a 65% SBS approval rating when the MTA's faulty methodology showed a 95% approval rating. What other MTA statistics should we not believe? 

The Great Select Bus Service Conspiracy: 

Part 1      http://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/7599-the-great-select-bus-service-conspiracy-part-i

Part 2      http://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/7609-the-great-select-bus-service-conspiracy-part-2

Part 3      http://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/7629-the-great-select-bus-service-conspiracy-part-iii

 

The MTA's Bus Plan  

 http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/bus_plan/bus_plan.pdf

 

 

[B35 via Church]

Lol @ the plug.....

Generally speaking, you won't get much of a counter-argument from me when it comes to SBS..... I already read part 1, will get around to reading the other 2 parts sometime later.....

Instead of encouraging ridership, the MTA does its damnedest to try to spoof people into believing that their way is the best way/only way..... I've long been tired of the blatant ignoring of the riding public...... SBS does not encourage ridership near enough to the tune that the MTA would have you believe......

[BrooklynBus]

43 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Lol @ the plug.....

Generally speaking, you won't get much of a counter-argument from me when it comes to SBS..... I already read part 1, will get around to reading the other 2 parts sometime later.....

Instead of encouraging ridership, the MTA does its damnedest to try to spoof people into believing that their way is the best way/only way..... I've long been tired of the blatant ignoring of the riding public...... SBS does not encourage ridership near enough to the tune that the MTA would have you believe......

The only hope is that Byford is really serious about listening to the people. And that he can see past the BS he will be fed by his Operations Planning Staff and budget people. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This comptroller's report is alarming to say the least.  Maybe the City should stop having so many damn fairs.  Sunday I was on a BxM3 that went via Second Avenue. We CRAWLED from 96th down to 57th.  I don't see how the M15 could've done any better. Cars parked all over the bus lanes on just about every block. It's a joke. I'm getting so tired of having to contend with people parking in the damn bus stops.  It says no standing, yet every time I need to get on the bus, I have to go into the damn street to do so because some Uber or cab is parked in the bus stop waiting for someone to come out of some office building somewhere and they just sit there forever.  

 

Check out this letter though.  I'm really interested to hear Darryl's response to this to because I agree that a lot of these machines don't work, they steal money if you have a pay-per-ride and so on.

https://comptroller.nyc.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/04.2018-Letter-to-Darryl-C-Irick-MTA.pdf

[BrooklynBus]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This comptroller's report is alarming to say the least.  Maybe the City should stop having so many damn fairs.  Sunday I was on a BxM3 that went via Second Avenue. We CRAWLED from 96th down to 57th.  I don't see how the M15 could've done any better. Cars parked all over the bus lanes on just about every block. It's a joke. I'm getting so tired of having to contend with people parking in the damn bus stops.  It says no standing, yet every time I need to get on the bus, I have to go into the damn street to do so because some Uber or cab is parked in the bus stop waiting for someone to come out of some office building somewhere and they just sit there forever.  

 

Check out this letter though.  I'm really interested to hear Darryl's response to this to because I agree that a lot of these machines don't work, they steal money if you have a pay-per-ride and so on.

https://comptroller.nyc.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/04.2018-Letter-to-Darryl-C-Irick-MTA.pdf

You should also note that some of the biggest offenders for parking in bus and bus and bike lanes are the police officers who are supposed to be doing the enforcement. Also, they are the biggest offenders for parking on sidewalks. 

And the city will not take on the police officers. The city recently proposed a bike lane for Fourth Avenue in Brooklyn which I am against. But it is interesting that they exempted the block with a police precinct so the cops can continue to break the law by parking their personal vehicles on the sidewalk. So you know they will not comply and will continue to park in bus lanes and bus stops. Also love it when they double park to give someone else a ticket for double parking. How hypocritical is that? 

But asking for fewer street fairs is like asking the TV networks to host fewer award shows. A week doesn't go by without an award show. 

Bet ya, Darryl never responds. 

And you are allowed to stand in a bus stop to expeditiously load or unload passengers which is the way it should be unless a bus is approaching and needs the stop. 

[officiallyliam]

10 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

You should also note that some of the biggest offenders for parking in bus and bus and bike lanes are the police officers who are supposed to be doing the enforcement. Also, they are the biggest offenders for parking on sidewalks.  

And the city will not take on the police officers.

It's interesting, though, because Byford has appeared (refreshingly) willing to take on the NYPD and their practices where they affect public transit service. The first example was the train fiasco last week; now this with better enforcement of bus lanes. How long do you think it will take before city officials put a stop to - if they do - Byford's dreams of reform and cooperation with the NYPD?

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We CRAWLED from 96th down to 57th.  I don't see how the M15 could've done any better. Cars parked all over the bus lanes on just about every block. It's a joke. I'm getting so tired of having to contend with people parking in the damn bus stops.

As for improving bus lanes, what are the opinions here on physically-separated bus lanes? You could have the parking/loading zones and an offset bus lane separated from the rest of the street by a small curb; other than buses, the only vehicles allowed in the physically-separated lane would be trucks doing deliveries and people parking on that block. On the busiest streets, you could have a double bus lane (like the one on Fifth) behind the curb, so express buses can still overtake at local stops.

Yes, people who really want to be scofflaws will still sneak through the bus lanes, but you'll make it a lot harder for people to just enter the bus lane on a whim as a way to bypass traffic - and consequently delay bus service.

There's room to implement this on most of the north-south avenues. Two-way streets probably wouldn't work like this, but you could have short segments of separated lanes on the approach to busy intersections, or on certain very congested blocks.

[W4ST]

13 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

It's interesting, though, because Byford has appeared (refreshingly) willing to take on the NYPD and their practices where they affect public transit service. The first example was the train fiasco last week; now this with better enforcement of bus lanes. How long do you think it will take before city officials put a stop to - if they do - Byford's dreams of reform and cooperation with the NYPD?

As for improving bus lanes, what are the opinions here on physically-separated bus lanes? You could have the parking/loading zones and an offset bus lane separated from the rest of the street by a small curb; other than buses, the only vehicles allowed in the physically-separated lane would be trucks doing deliveries and people parking on that block. On the busiest streets, you could have a double bus lane (like the one on Fifth) behind the curb, so express buses can still overtake at local stops.

Yes, people who really want to be scofflaws will still sneak through the bus lanes, but you'll make it a lot harder for people to just enter the bus lane on a whim as a way to bypass traffic - and consequently delay bus service.

 

I agree with this. I think separated bus lanes like these, with the help of better timed lights, could be a big improvement for bus service. I personally think that the streets with high amounts of bus service (especially streets where the buses get stuck in traffic) should be designed with buses as the priority, because it will allow more people to travel down the street due to higher capacities on buses, and because buses are struggling right now. If buses become faster, more people will prefer them. I don't want to ride a bus when I can walk as fast or almost as fast. However, if the bus is significantly faster, I will want to ride it.

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, officiallyliam said:

It's interesting, though, because Byford has appeared (refreshingly) willing to take on the NYPD and their practices where they affect public transit service. The first example was the train fiasco last week; now this with better enforcement of bus lanes. How long do you think it will take before city officials put a stop to - if they do - Byford's dreams of reform and cooperation with the NYPD?

As for improving bus lanes, what are the opinions here on physically-separated bus lanes? You could have the parking/loading zones and an offset bus lane separated from the rest of the street by a small curb; other than buses, the only vehicles allowed in the physically-separated lane would be trucks doing deliveries and people parking on that block. On the busiest streets, you could have a double bus lane (like the one on Fifth) behind the curb, so express buses can still overtake at local stops.

Yes, people who really want to be scofflaws will still sneak through the bus lanes, but you'll make it a lot harder for people to just enter the bus lane on a whim as a way to bypass traffic - and consequently delay bus service.

There's room to implement this on most of the north-south avenues. Two-way streets probably wouldn't work like this, but you could have short segments of separated lanes on the approach to busy intersections, or on certain very congested blocks.

Hopefully they’ll try something like this in future. But having things like this would mean bus lanes have to be in effect 24/7 unless there are signs that specifies otherwise. 

[bobtehpanda]

5 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Hopefully they’ll try something like this in future. But having things like this would mean bus lanes have to be in effect 24/7 unless there are signs that specifies otherwise. 

And what, exactly, is wrong with that? If the traffic is heavy enough that the bus lanes cause a congestion impact, then that's when those lanes are needed the most, to move those buses past congestion.

If the traffic is unaffected then removing the bus lanes will not have a positive congestion impact; in fact, it might encourage dangerous speeding.

[Brillant93]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

And what, exactly, is wrong with that? If the traffic is heavy enough that the bus lanes cause a congestion impact, then that's when those lanes are needed the most, to move those buses past congestion.

If the traffic is unaffected then removing the bus lanes will not have a positive congestion impact; in fact, it might encourage dangerous speeding.

I’m pro bus lanes I’m just saying having bump like protection on them will indicate that they are 24/7. 

[BrooklynBus]

10 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

It's interesting, though, because Byford has appeared (refreshingly) willing to take on the NYPD and their practices where they affect public transit service. The first example was the train fiasco last week; now this with better enforcement of bus lanes. How long do you think it will take before city officials put a stop to - if they do - Byford's dreams of reform and cooperation with the NYPD?

As for improving bus lanes, what are the opinions here on physically-separated bus lanes? You could have the parking/loading zones and an offset bus lane separated from the rest of the street by a small curb; other than buses, the only vehicles allowed in the physically-separated lane would be trucks doing deliveries and people parking on that block. On the busiest streets, you could have a double bus lane (like the one on Fifth) behind the curb, so express buses can still overtake at local stops.

Yes, people who really want to be scofflaws will still sneak through the bus lanes, but you'll make it a lot harder for people to just enter the bus lane on a whim as a way to bypass traffic - and consequently delay bus service.

There's room to implement this on most of the north-south avenues. Two-way streets probably wouldn't work like this, but you could have short segments of separated lanes on the approach to busy intersections, or on certain very congested blocks.

What I don't understand is how deliveries are made in the picture above? If they are made from the bus lane, do the buses use the center lane during those hours? And if someone enters the bus lane for a few seconds to bypass traffic, they are really not delaying bus service especially if there is a bus only every ten minutes or so. I also notice the barrier to prevent jaywalking.

Such a lane assumes frequent bus service. Also interesting is that there are no cars or buses in the picture. 

And if Byford's dreams of reforms are squashed, he will be out of here in a year or two and then it will be business as usual again. 

[B35 via Church]

30 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

What I don't understand is how deliveries are made in the picture above?

Probably the same as what some of these fedex/ups/dhl/etc. drivers do in Manhattan if they have to make a delivery/deliveries on one of the side streets in midtown or so - park their truck on one of the "avenue" blocks, then load all (or as many as they can on 1 trip) the packages/items that need to be delivered on that side street onto a 3-way convertible hand truck..... Then proceed making their deliveries, similar to how a mail carrier would.....

[officiallyliam]

51 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

What I don't understand is how deliveries are made in the picture above? If they are made from the bus lane, do the buses use the center lane during those hours? And if someone enters the bus lane for a few seconds to bypass traffic, they are really not delaying bus service especially if there is a bus only every ten minutes or so. I also notice the barrier to prevent jaywalking.

You could do it this way:

22 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Probably the same as what some of these fedex/ups/dhl/etc. drivers do in Manhattan if they have to make a delivery/deliveries on one of the side streets in midtown or so - park their truck on one of the "avenue" blocks

Or, you could make the lane behind the curb ~8 feet wider, and include loading zones next to the curb as usual.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Probably the same as what some of these fedex/ups/dhl/etc. drivers do in Manhattan if they have to make a delivery/deliveries on one of the side streets in midtown or so - park their truck on one of the "avenue" blocks, then load all (or as many as they can on 1 trip) the packages/items that need to be delivered on that side street onto a 3-way convertible hand truck..... Then proceed making their deliveries, similar to how a mail carrier would.....

Are you saying FedEx currently does not make deliveries on side streets? What about trucks that are unloading their entire truck at a single store? Are they supposed to spend all day walking back and forth? 

42 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

You could do it this way:

Or, you could make the lane behind the curb ~8 feet wider, and include loading zones next to the curb as usual.

How could you make the lane behind the curb wider for a loading zone when the lane is a bus lane? If you are talking about the other curb lane, you will notice that in the picture there are no stores on that side and there also is a barrier? 

[B35 via Church]

31 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Are you saying FedEx currently does not make deliveries on side streets?

Not at all....

31 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

What about trucks that are unloading their entire truck at a single store? Are they supposed to spend all day walking back and forth? 

A single store that doesn't have a loading dock? Pretty much, yes.

It's how deliveries are often made to a lot of these dollar tree's, family dollars, and (the major chain) fast food spots.... Shipments coming in on 18 wheelers & all.... The driver & his helpers going (back & forth) & (back & forth) & (back & forth) inside the establishment....

31 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

How could you make the lane behind the curb wider for a loading zone when the lane is a bus lane? If you are talking about the other curb lane, you will notice that in the picture there are no stores on that side and there also is a barrier? 

I have the same question.....

[BrooklynBus]

4 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Not at all....

A single store that doesn't have a loading dock? If that's what the situation calls for, then yeah, pretty much.....

Now I am totally confused. Thought you said that if there were no deliveries allowed on the avenues, deliveries would be made from the side streets like FedEx does now. 

In Brighton Beach, trucks are double parked all day long unloading goods to the 15 or so fruit and vegetable stores located within a half mile of each other all day long delaying buses and cars. There is like one loading zone for a single truck for the entire mile. 

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Now I am totally confused. Thought you said that if there were no deliveries allowed on the avenues, deliveries would be made from the side streets like FedEx does now. 

In Brighton Beach, trucks are double parked all day long unloading goods to the 15 or so fruit and vegetable stores located within a half mile of each other all day long delaying buses and cars. There is like one loading zone for a single truck for the entire mile. 

You asked if I was saying that FedEx currently does not make deliveries on side streets? The answer to that is no.....

Let me put it to you this way... Some of those FedEx/UPS, etc. drivers/delivery guys [do what I stated in that earlier post] & some of those FedEx/UPS, etc. drivers/delivery guys [make deliveries on the side streets].... The problem with the drivers that do the latter is that, they're one of the main causes of congestion on the side streets....

In my earlier post, none of that is not me saying "FedEx currently does not make deliveries on side streets".....

 

[BrooklynBus]

11 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

You asked if I was saying that FedEx currently does not make deliveries on side streets? The answer to that is no.....

Let me put it to you this way... Some of those FedEx/UPS, etc. drivers/delivery guys [do what I stated in that earlier post] & some of those FedEx/UPS, etc. drivers/delivery guys [make deliveries on the side streets].... The problem with the drivers that do the latter is that, they're one of the main causes of congestion on the side streets....

In my earlier post, none of that is not me saying "FedEx currently does not make deliveries on side streets".....

 

Okay. You are saying that the FedEx guys who are making deliveries from the side streets are contributing to traffic congestion there. Correct? So what sense would Officiallyliam's proposal make by banning deliveries on the avenues? All it would do is move the congestion from the avenues to the cross streets. Do you agree? 

[B35 via Church]

11 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Okay. You are saying that the FedEx guys who are making deliveries from the side streets are contributing to traffic congestion there. Correct?

Yup.....

15 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

So what sense would Officiallyliam's proposal make by banning deliveries on the avenues? All it would do is move the congestion from the avenues to the cross streets. Do you agree? 

Banning deliveries on the avenues is asinine - yes, that would make the side streets even more congested...... I didn't see where he proposed that, but If that's what he's proposing, I can't concur with it at all.....

[BrooklynBus]

8 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yup.....

Banning deliveries on the avenues is asinine - yes, that would make the side streets even more congested...... I didn't see where he proposed that, but If that's what he's proposing, I can't concur with it at all.....

That's what he proposed and that's how this conversation started. 

[officiallyliam]

2 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yup.....

Banning deliveries on the avenues is asinine - yes, that would make the side streets even more congested...... I didn't see where he proposed that, but If that's what he's proposing, I can't concur with it at all.....

Oh, I'm not proposing that at all. The lane nearest the curb and the lane next to that would be separated from the main roadway. The space between the bus lane and the curb can be used as loading zones, as well as bus bulbs at local/limited/SBS stops. This means that deliveries can be kept on avenues (because, yes, banning deliveries on avenues would be asinine), and that limited/SBS/express/not in service buses could overtake local buses, since locals will be able to pull in to the curb and leave the bus lane open for faster services.

3 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

That's what he proposed and that's how this conversation started. 

Where is my proposal to ban deliveries? Quote me. 

If you're referring to the picture, then fine, maybe that wasn't the best example - but I said later that the separated lane should be wide enough to include space for deliveries to pull over.

[BrooklynBus]

24 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

Oh, I'm not proposing that at all. The lane nearest the curb and the lane next to that would be separated from the main roadway. The space between the bus lane and the curb can be used as loading zones, as well as bus bulbs at local/limited/SBS stops. This means that deliveries can be kept on avenues (because, yes, banning deliveries on avenues would be asinine), and that limited/SBS/express/not in service buses could overtake local buses, since locals will be able to pull in to the curb and leave the bus lane open for faster services.

Where is my proposal to ban deliveries? Quote me. 

If you're referring to the picture, then fine, maybe that wasn't the best example - but I said later that the separated lane should be wide enough to include space for deliveries to pull over.

Yes, I was referring to the picture because that was what I had to go on. Your explanation about making the lane eight feet wider was not clear. 

So are we still talking about a road that is three lanes wide like in the picture? You have the right lane which is a delivery zone/local bus stop/bus bulb for SBS buses. Right? That gives the SBS the ability to pass a local, but doesn't give locals the ability to pass an SBS if you had a bus bulb. Also, how do trucks get to the delivery zones without driving in the bus lane? And with a barrier, how do they switch over from the traffic lane to the bus lane? And I guess if a car breaks down for some reason or there is an accident, all traffic just comes to a halt. Right? Or are we talking about a road wide enough for four lanes? 

[officiallyliam]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

That gives the SBS the ability to pass a local, but doesn't give locals the ability to pass an SBS if you had a bus bulb.

Yes, that is correct - its one of the problems with the idea. That being said, I don't think it's the end of the world. All it means is that sometimes a local will have to wait some extra seconds for a limited or SBS to depart from the bus bulb - but with all-door boarding hopefully being rolled out soon, the shorter dwell times should make this possible.

5 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Also, how do trucks get to the delivery zones without driving in the bus lane?

They'd have to use the bus lane. This would just mean setting up delivery hours overnight and between 10 and 2 during the day, where trucks driving in the bus lane won't impact service. Deliveries would only be in the bus lane for the length of the block they're going to, anyway.

7 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

And with a barrier, how do they switch over from the traffic lane to the bus lane?

Either enter at the beginning of the block, or in the case of very long blocks, or specific very-busy businesses, you could have small breaks in the barrier to let vehicles in. This, too, is not a logistical constraint whatsoever. See here: 

10 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

And I guess if a car breaks down for some reason or there is an accident, all traffic just comes to a halt. Right? Or are we talking about a road wide enough for four lanes?

I'm talking about the north-south avenues, which - with the exception of just Lexington (I think) - are 100' wide building-to-building and have a 70' wide roadway. Therefore, three 10' or 11' wide traffic lanes should be preserved, and you'd still have room in most cases for 8' parking on the other side of the street and a 5' curbside bike lane in the style of the ones being installed on such avenues, if my math is adding up right.

[BrooklynBus]

4 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

Yes, that is correct - its one of the problems with the idea. That being said, I don't think it's the end of the world. All it means is that sometimes a local will have to wait some extra seconds for a limited or SBS to depart from the bus bulb - but with all-door boarding hopefully being rolled out soon, the shorter dwell times should make this possible.

They'd have to use the bus lane. This would just mean setting up delivery hours overnight and between 10 and 2 during the day, where trucks driving in the bus lane won't impact service. Deliveries would only be in the bus lane for the length of the block they're going to, anyway.

Either enter at the beginning of the block, or in the case of very long blocks, or specific very-busy businesses, you could have small breaks in the barrier to let vehicles in. This, too, is not a logistical constraint whatsoever. See here: 

I'm talking about the north-south avenues, which - with the exception of just Lexington (I think) - are 100' wide building-to-building and have a 70' wide roadway. Therefore, three 10' or 11' wide traffic lanes should be preserved, and you'd still have room in most cases for 8' parking on the other side of the street and a 5' curbside bike lane in the style of the ones being installed on such avenues, if my math is adding up right.

Well now you just changed everything going from a roadway that was approximately 28 feet wide to one that is 100 feet wide. That is a completely different ballgame. 

[officiallyliam]

3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Well now you just changed everything going from a roadway that was approximately 28 feet wide to one that is 100 feet wide. That is a completely different ballgame. 

I only meant the photo to serve as an example of the kind of physical separation which I was referring to, not necessarily an explicit template for every road in New York.