If certain lines were to be closed for a whole week, would that speed up repair process?

[Deucey]

47 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

To answer the question in this thread of shutting lines for a week to do repairs, if I were to do this, I would shut down the IRT Eastern Pkwy line for a week from Atlantic-Barclays to Utica Avenue and Flatbush Avenue. Here is the service change:

 

Lines affected: :

• : No service between Atlantic-Bayclays and Flatbush Avenue
  • Service operates between 241st Street and Atlantic Avenue,
    • Service operates local from 96th Street to Chambers Street all week.
• : No service between 14th Street and Utica Avenue
  • Service operates in two sections:
    • Between 148th Street and 14th Street
      • Service runs express in Manhattan all week. At 14th Street, trains board at the downtown track.
    • Between Utica Avenue and New Lots Avenue.
      • At Utica Avenue, all trains board from the uptown platform.
• : No trains between Bowling Green and New Lots Avenue.
  • Service operates between Woodlawn and Brooklyn Bridge, days/evenings
    • Late night service operates between Woodlawn and Bowling Green.
      • Service operates local in Manhattan at all times
• : No trains between Bowling Green and Flatbush Avene.
  • Service operates between Dyre Avenue and Bowling Green, days/evenings.
    • Late night service operates between Dyre Avenue and 149th Street-Grand Concourse 

 

Shuttle buses operate along these routes:

•   shuttle buses operates between Atlantic Avenue and Flatbush Avenue, stopping at these stations:
  • Bergen Street  
  • Grand Army Plaza 
  • Eastern Pkwy 
  • Franklin Avenue 
  • President Street 
  • Sterling Street 
  • Winthrop Street 
  • Church Avenue 
  • Beverly Road 
  • Newkirk Avenue 
•   shuttle buses operate between Atlantic Avenue and Utica Avenue, stooping at these stations
  • Bergen Street 
  • Grand Army Plaza 
  • Eastern Pkwy 
  • Franklin Avenue 
  • Nostrand Avenue 
  • Kingston Avenue 

Note that the 2 and 3 train buses are local and the 4 and 5 trains are express buses. The express buses will not operate overnight.

Alternatives to consider:

  for service between Manhattan and Brooklyn, and service in Brooklyn. Alternative for service to stations between Manhattan and New Lots Avenue

 for service between Manhattan and Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn.

 

This can help speed up repairs on that critical segment of subway. Is this a good idea?

Aren't the switches at Nevins St?

[darkstar8983]

For 8 Av, south of 34 St Penn station

-  train rerouted via 6 Av

-  train runs between Brighton Beach and Dekalb Av, then vía the  to 96 St

-  trains run limited service between 59 St-Columbus circle and 168 St

- select  trains run local from 59 St to Bedford Park Blvd

-  trains run between Metropolitan Av and Essex, then via the  to Chambers St

-  trains will not run south of 34 St, and will stop on the express tracks at 34 St and 42 St

 

 

For Broadway south of 34 St

-  train runs in 2 sections

1. from Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to 34 St

*Astoria bound  trains skip 49 St

2. Local from Court St to Coney Island

-  rerouted via 6 Av

-  train runs only between Bay Ridge and 59 St

-  supplements  from Astoria to 34 St

 

For 6 Av ( I have already stared in a previous post, but to quickly summarize:

-  runs from Brighton Beach to DeKalb Av, then via the  to 96 St

-   (see weekend fastrack changes)

- *selected  trains run local from 59 St to Bedford Park Blvd

-  runs from Metropolitan Av to Essex St, then rerouted to Chambers St

-  train runs via the  from Atlantic Av to 34 St

-  train runs local in Brooklyn

-  train runs limited service from 168 St to World Trade Center

 

The 8 Av closure would be from 59 St Columbus Circle to Jay St Metrotech

The Broadway Closure would be from 34 St Herald Square to Court St (via Whitehall St) and to DeKalb Av vía the Manhattan Bridge

The 6 Av closure is from Lexington Av-63 St to Jay St MetroTech (via 63 St/ 6 Av local), 59 St Columbus Circle to DeKalb Av vía Express/Manhattan Bridge and from 5 Av-53 St to 47-50 Sts, and from Broadway-Lafayette to Essex St

[Wallyhorse]

20 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I don't know if they can do four weekends' work in a week non stop, but three is definitely possible.

Remember, you're talking nine total days (including two weekends) and if you count Friday night-Saturday into Sunday Night-Monday morning it's really almost nine and a half days.  With no setup/cleanup in between and being able to work straight through, you should be able to get four weekends of work done easily in nine days.  

[Lance]

A question I'm not seeing answered here is this: where are all of these additional buses coming from? At the height of the rush hours, most of the available buses are in service on their normal routes, along with a majority of the drivers. Much like the subway, you need a healthy spare factor of buses in case of emergency or maintenance. It would not be wise to leave bus depots with no buses. I mention this because for some of the proposed closures, there are no subway alternatives and the need for replacement buses will be at an all time high, especially during peak periods. Only a few outlying services can work with the standard shuttle bus output. For other lines, like Eastern Pkwy mentioned above, those normal shuttle bus operations will not be enough to combat the sheer number of riders using those lines. Proposing continuous shutdowns in central areas, like the 53rd Street closure last year, work better because there are plenty of alternatives for riders to get around. In the outlying, but still busy, areas, this is not always a viable solution.

[Deucey]

11 minutes ago, Lance said:

A question I'm not seeing answered here is this: where are all of these additional buses coming from? At the height of the rush hours, most of the available buses are in service on their normal routes, along with a majority of the drivers. Much like the subway, you need a healthy spare factor of buses in case of emergency or maintenance. It would not be wise to leave bus depots with no buses. I mention this because for some of the proposed closures, there are no subway alternatives and the need for replacement buses will be at an all time high, especially during peak periods. Only a few outlying services can work with the standard shuttle bus output. For other lines, like Eastern Pkwy mentioned above, those normal shuttle bus operations will not be enough to combat the sheer number of riders using those lines. Proposing continuous shutdowns in central areas, like the 53rd Street closure last year, work better because there are plenty of alternatives for riders to get around. In the outlying, but still busy, areas, this is not always a viable solution.

That's where, like QBL, you do the partial closure using the reverse signaling they spent billions on to make the Eastbound Express track Manhattan Bound for part of it, then the Manhattan Bound Express Queens-bound. 

Def would need to suspend  for the duration -  being "local" in one direction, but basically this and short hopper shuttles - running one-way to mimic inaccessible local stops then turning around without taking pax to do the same.

[bobtehpanda]

17 minutes ago, Deucey said:

That's where, like QBL, you do the partial closure using the reverse signaling they spent billions on to make the Eastbound Express track Manhattan Bound for part of it, then the Manhattan Bound Express Queens-bound. 

Def would need to suspend  for the duration -  being "local" in one direction, but basically this and short hopper shuttles - running one-way to mimic inaccessible local stops then turning around without taking pax to do the same.

When did they install reverse signalling? Have they ever actually used it?

[N6 Limited]

10 minutes ago, Deucey said:

That's where, like QBL, you do the partial closure using the reverse signaling they spent billions on to make the Eastbound Express track Manhattan Bound for part of it, then the Manhattan Bound Express Queens-bound. 

Def would need to suspend  for the duration -  being "local" in one direction, but basically this and short hopper shuttles - running one-way to mimic inaccessible local stops then turning around without taking pax to do the same.

Does most of the QBL have reverse signalling, and is it all 4 tracks? It would make sense for it to have it between Queens Plaza and 71st Ave at least. This way they can mitigate unplanned service changes and it can aid with fasTrack type shutdowns.

[BreeddekalbL]

Some long duration closures might be scuttled because of politics

[rbrome]

Most other systems worldwide get things done on weeknights. For me, that suggests an obvious solution for NYC: why not take one line at a time and close it on weeknights, and possibly weekends? For example, close the whole 1/2/3 for eight hours a night, for a year, to get CBTC installed. Then move on to the N/Q/R/W for a year, etc. There's always going to be some maintenance needed on some line, so why not just make it standard practice that, at any one time, 80% of the system has 24/7 service, while the other 20% is closed at night for work. Maybe set it up so that it varies by quarter, always announced at least a year in advance, to make it nice and predictable for everyone. Frequent night bus service would substitute for closed lines. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

27 minutes ago, rbrome said:

Most other systems worldwide get things done on weeknights. For me, that suggests an obvious solution for NYC: why not take one line at a time and close it on weeknights, and possibly weekends? For example, close the whole 1/2/3 for eight hours a night, for a year, to get CBTC installed. Then move on to the N/Q/R/W for a year, etc. There's always going to be some maintenance needed on some line, so why not just make it standard practice that, at any one time, 80% of the system has 24/7 service, while the other 20% is closed at night for work. Maybe set it up so that it varies by quarter, always announced at least a year in advance, to make it nice and predictable for everyone. Frequent night bus service would substitute for closed lines. 

I agree. Here's the problem though. The  has been curtailing bus service later at night and I think they want to keep it that way, so they'd rather do the work, and push people to use other subway lines.  That's the problem I have with it.  Provide the transportation alternatives to get the work done and stop being so damn cheap!  I mean really, if you see how packed some of those shuttle buses are it's crazy.  If they don't want to run that much service, then every bus they use should be an artic.  

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, rbrome said:

Most other systems worldwide get things done on weeknights. For me, that suggests an obvious solution for NYC: why not take one line at a time and close it on weeknights, and possibly weekends? For example, close the whole 1/2/3 for eight hours a night, for a year, to get CBTC installed. Then move on to the N/Q/R/W for a year, etc. There's always going to be some maintenance needed on some line, so why not just make it standard practice that, at any one time, 80% of the system has 24/7 service, while the other 20% is closed at night for work. Maybe set it up so that it varies by quarter, always announced at least a year in advance, to make it nice and predictable for everyone. Frequent night bus service would substitute for closed lines. 

The only lines that this would be "unworkable" would be the Lex, the Rockaway, Broadway above 207th, and Jamaica east of B-way Junction. Every other line has a duplicate close enough that you could run shuttle buses in the outerboros between closed stations and the closest on an alternate line and be okay.

[Lawrence St]

But with Lex you already have the M101/102/103 mirroring it with good enough frequency and a LTD service available.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

But with Lex you already have the M101/102/103 mirroring it with good enough frequency and a LTD service available.

Lex service is unreliable and poorly managed.  

[Deucey]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

But with Lex you already have the M101/102/103 mirroring it with good enough frequency and a LTD service available.

It's the busiest rail line in the US. Buses aren't gonna pick up the slack if the line is shutdown.

SAS to the Bronx and Hanover Square needs to be built right away.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, Deucey said:

It's the busiest rail line in the US. Buses aren't gonna pick up the slack if the line is shutdown.

SAS to the Bronx and Hanover Square needs to be built right away.

He should've seen the lines going for blocks to get on buses in the GCT area after Sandy. I've never seen anything like that before.  Lexington Avenue would have to have some special arrangement made to deal with the crowds.

[Deucey]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

He should've seen the lines going for blocks to get on buses in the GCT area after Sandy. I've never seen anything like that before.  Lexington Avenue would have to have some special arrangement made to deal with the crowds.

Parking eliminated on the Western side of the street and two bus lanes AT LEAST.

(Aside, is the western side of the street still called the Downtown side, and Eastern the Uptown side? My pops is from Harlem and still uses those descriptors.)

[LGA Link N Train]

To Fix the subway

53 Street Check.

Myrtle Viaduct ; Check

train shutdown (that's another story for another day)

Lines (or segments) to Focus On. (Note: this is subjective)

Line. (Aside from CBTC Installations) To shut down, this line should be split in Phases.

121 Street-Jamaica Center; for QBL improvements

6th Avenue  since there apparently multiple problems in this trunk.

CPW  (the street could be limited to certain transportation modes. i.e. Buses and Taxis

Queens Blvd  Perform reverse signaling 

Dekalb (also another story)

7 Avenue (reverse signaling until 34 Street or Chambers Street)

8 Avenue  In preperation foe 6th Avenue work.

 

Any thoughts on what I have so far?

(just note that I'm throwing a can of words out)

[itmaybeokay]

dumb question but wouldn't CBTC on queens blvd effectively allow reverse signalling? 

[Jsunflyguy]

On 5/9/2018 at 2:25 PM, rbrome said:

Most other systems worldwide get things done on weeknights. For me, that suggests an obvious solution for NYC: why not take one line at a time and close it on weeknights, and possibly weekends? 

Isn't that called FastTrack?

[RR503]

14 hours ago, itmaybeokay said:

dumb question but wouldn't CBTC on queens blvd effectively allow reverse signalling? 

Yes, as long as you don't end up having to rely on the backup signals for some reason.