Bx9 SBS Study

[Lawrence St]

7 hours ago, WestFarms36 said:

Everyone has forgotten the Q70 was an LTD route, since back then it seemed short, insignificant, and forgotten. I am even surprised that the has even remembered through those years to send out buses on the route.

But the Q70 was originally suppose to be an SBS from the beginning, I forgot what caused it to be delayed as an SBS but yea. 

[B35 via Church]

11 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

....Have there been any new limited routes since SBS became a thing?

Nope, and there's not going to be either.....

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nope. There's been nothing but SBS routes. I think limited stop service is a thing of the past and will only exist on old routes.

....Which is one of my main points of contention with SBS - the unjustified (eventual) eradication of LTD service with zero explanation whatsoever as to why..... Why bother building/enhancing the LTD brand when you can try to spoof the public that you're being proactive with improving bus service with a whole new brand..... Because there's a catch, and many aren't hip to it until it affects them.....

All it really is, is a disgusting way of washing their hands of local service.....

[Lawrence St]

9 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Nope, and there's not going to be either.....

....Which is one of my main points of contention with SBS - the unjustified (eventual) eradication of LTD service with zero explanation whatsoever as to why..... Why bother building/enhancing the LTD brand when you can try to spoof the public that you're being proactive with improving bus service with a whole new brand..... Because there's a catch, and many aren't hip to it until it affects them.....

All it really is, is a disgusting way of washing their hands of local service.....

Westchester County has not had a new limited stop route since the 21. People along The 7, which is the longest, slowest unreliable crosstown, have been trying to get limited stop service for the last 5 years or so, and the government has been ignoring their pleas. There have been proposals of having the 91 run as the limited stop variant to the 7 (the same route it uses during the summer, except it ends at New Rochelle). 

What I'm saying is the way how limited service is added or changed needs to have new guidelines based on the ridership. If it were up to me for the Bx9 SBS, it would be:

262nd St

242nd St

238th St

234th St

231st St

225th St

All of these stops have high ridership usage, with Marble Hill being the most used since most people transfer to/from the  and Bx9.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Westchester County has not had a new limited stop route since the 21. People along The 7, which is the longest, slowest unreliable crosstown, have been trying to get limited stop service for the last 5 years or so, and the government has been ignoring their pleas. There have been proposals of having the 91 run as the limited stop variant to the 7 (the same route it uses during the summer, except it ends at New Rochelle). 

What I'm saying is the way how limited service is added or changed needs to have new guidelines based on the ridership. If it were up to me for the Bx9 SBS, it would be:

262nd St

242nd St

238th St

234th St

231st St

225th St

All of these stops have high ridership usage, with Marble Hill being the most used since most people transfer to/from the  and Bx9.

How absurd. So you think you can have a bus terminate in North Riverdale and it's not supposed to make any stops within Riverdale until you reach 242nd street which is essentially the Kingsbridge/Riverdale border in that area? Who is supposed to be riding Southbound? People from Yonkers who don't even live in NYC? Then you claim that it's SBS but it makes FOUR stops between 225th and 242nd... If anything it should only make the 238th and 231st stop before 225th given the subway and bus connections there.

[B35 via Church]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

How absurd. So you think you can have a bus terminate in North Riverdale and it's not supposed to make any stops within Riverdale until you reach 242nd street which is essentially the Kingsbridge/Riverdale border in that area? Who is supposed to be riding Southbound? People from Yonkers who don't even live in NYC?

Beat me to it (I was replying in that rockaways thread)..... To have these fictional Bx9 SBS' doing what the Bronx bound Bee-Line buses do from 262nd on down, is ludicrous......

As for the general discussion of a Bx9 SBS.... I've been lurking up until this point, because really, from terminal to terminal, the Bx9 is too indirect... They are going to have to pull off something drastic to the routing for it to have SBS thrown onto it..... They try to make SBS routes as straight as they can.... Just look at how beneficial the SBS has been for New York av riders

[Lawrence St]

There is NOT enough ridership to justify the SBS stopping in between 242nd St and 262nd St. If anything, people coming from Yonkers use the Bx9 more. You obviously don't ride the Bx9 as much as I do, I see the ridership patterns. People in between still have the local, and the  for that matter.  The service frequency on the local will be the same as it always has been. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

29 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

There is NOT enough ridership to justify the SBS stopping in between 242nd St and 262nd St. If anything, people coming from Yonkers use the Bx9 more. You obviously don't ride the Bx9 as much as I do, I see the ridership patterns. People in between still have the local, and the  for that matter.  The service frequency on the local will be the same as it always has been. 

That isn't the point.  I'm well aware of who uses what. I LIVE in Riverdale and I'm all over the neighborhood, "upstairs" where I live AND "downstairs" along Broadway.  Your proposal basically shuts out ANYONE who needs to travel from Riverdale below 262nd street and forces them on to the local.  Riverdale is a natural retirement community AND has several colleges with LOTS of people coming here to WORK or to go to school that use the local buses, and sure the local residents don't use the Bx9 that heavily but that's besides the point.  For the people that need to travel the most, you're giving them the middle finger. 

Either way, your proposal would never fly.  One of the things that we've pushed for here is frequent bus service to and from the subways and elsewhere which is why you have the kind of service that exists now in the first place.  For anyone who needs places like the Bronx Zoo, Botanical Garden or other areas that the Bx9 goes to, they should be able to access the SBS for a quick ride.  You have the bus making FOUR stops from 242nd to 231st, but none from 262nd to 242nd.  I mean seriously with such a set up who would want to use the SBS in Riverdale?  The idea of public transportation is to make it fast enough to be attractive, but not have it skipping so many stops that you make it inaccessible to entire communities, which is essentially what you're doing.  There's no way in hell that a CITY service should be more accessible to residents in Yonkers than it is to NYC residents that pay taxes for the service.  

[Lawrence St]

44 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That isn't the point.  I'm well aware of who uses what. I LIVE in Riverdale and I'm all over the neighborhood, "upstairs" where I live AND "downstairs" along Broadway.  Your proposal basically shuts out ANYONE who needs to travel from Riverdale below 262nd street and forces them on to the local.  Riverdale is a natural retirement community AND has several colleges with LOTS of people coming here to WORK or to go to school that use the local buses, and sure the local residents don't use the Bx9 that heavily but that's besides the point.  For the people that need to travel the most, you're giving them the middle finger. 

Either way, your proposal would never fly.  One of the things that we've pushed for here is frequent bus service to and from the subways and elsewhere which is why you have the kind of service that exists now in the first place.  For anyone who needs places like the Bronx Zoo, Botanical Garden or other areas that the Bx9 goes to, they should be able to access the SBS for a quick ride.  You have the bus making FOUR stops from 242nd to 231st, but none from 262nd to 242nd.  I mean seriously with such a set up who would want to use the SBS in Riverdale?  The idea of public transportation is to make it fast enough to be attractive, but not have it skipping so many stops that you make it inaccessible to entire communities, which is essentially what you're doing.  There's no way in hell that a CITY service should be more accessible to residents in Yonkers than it is to NYC residents that pay taxes for the service.  

Because the problem with the current Bx9 isn't in Riverdale, it's on Broadway and east of 225th St.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lawrence St said:

Because the problem with the current Bx9 isn't in Riverdale, it's on Broadway and east of 225th St.

So then if anything you should have it making FEWER stops on Broadway below 242nd, not more. 

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Beat me to it (I was replying in that rockaways thread)..... To have these fictional Bx9 SBS' doing what the Bronx bound Bee-Line buses do from 262nd on down, is ludicrous......

As for the general discussion of a Bx9 SBS.... I've been lurking up until this point, because really, from terminal to terminal, the Bx9 is too indirect... They are going to have to pull off something drastic to the routing for it to have SBS thrown onto it..... They try to make SBS routes as straight as they can.... Just look at how beneficial the SBS has been for New York av riders

Why not split it? South of 242, keep the Bx9. North of 242, Bx99 turns on to Van Cortlandt, Sedgwick, Moshulu, and Webster to Fordham Plaza.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

17 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Why not split it? South of 242, keep the Bx9. North of 242, Bx99 turns on to Van Cortlandt, Sedgwick, Moshulu, and Webster to Fordham Plaza.

And who is supposed to be using that  (Bx99)?

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

There is NOT enough ridership to justify the SBS stopping in between 242nd St and 262nd St. If anything, people coming from Yonkers use the Bx9 more. You obviously don't ride the Bx9 as much as I do, I see the ridership patterns. People in between still have the local, and the  for that matter.  The service frequency on the local will be the same as it always has been. 

Nobody's disputing any ridership patterns..... Part of the issue is that you're not doing too hot a job justifying running these SBS buses up to 262nd specifically.... Running buses nonstop for about a mile past 242nd, to have "people coming from Yonkers use the Bx9 more" is plain old crazy...... Riverdale's not going to go for a new service they'd hardly benefit from... Get serious here....

Even if/when the MTA comes out w/ a Bx9 SBS, I don't see these things running past 225th anyway; they won't want to risk the delays that plagues Broadway..... Same reason you don't see B46 SBS' running to Williamsburg.... Same reason you don't see Bx41 SBS' running to Wakefield....

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Because the problem with the current Bx9 isn't in Riverdale, it's on Broadway and east of 225th St.

This is the same logic that's being displayed w/ the upcoming B82 SBS..... Since they can't address the congestion around Kings Hwy. on the Brighton line, let's implement bus lanes on the part of Kings Hwy. that's unnecessary..... What you're basically saying with what you're trying to defend here is that, since the Bx9 has to deal w/ the congestion under the subway, let's try to offset whatever losses in runtime that would occur from its stint under the subway....

....by having buses run nonstop from 242nd to 262nd.

14 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Why not split it? South of 242, keep the Bx9. North of 242, Bx99 turns on to Van Cortlandt, Sedgwick, Moshulu, and Webster to Fordham Plaza.

Not sure if you can turn around that many buses @ 242nd for it to be a full time terminal....

As for that 'Bx99" (lol), iwell, FWIW, that'd make for a nice little express to the Bee-lines,.....

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

19 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Riverdale's not going to go for a new service they'd hardly benefit from... Get serious here....

 

 

They already complain down there as it as about how they get screwed over being "downstairs" Riverdale as opposed to us who live up in the hills, so they'd really be foaming at the mouth about this. There's been a lot of activity down there along Broadway, from new housing to just about everything under the sun, so they've been rubbed raw over the last few years by the City and the DOT in particular. I believe after the Bx7 and the Bx10, the Bx9 has to be the most complained about local bus in Riverdale. lol

The "solution" has always been to run more buses to the subway to get people from all parts of Riverdale to the  and  as quickly as possible, hence why a lot of those buses that go back to the depot (Kingsbridge depot) are put in service Southbound and vice versa.

From my personal observations, very little has changed.  Bunching is still horrific on all three lines. Just the other morning I was waiting for the BxM1 and saw a huge crowd for the Bx7.  One bus bypassed the stop and the crowd kept growing. By then my express bus was coming so I didn't care, but I've seen some crazy things on all three lines even late at night.  

On the Bx10, late evenings coming home or heading to the City, I still see bunched up 231st street and Norwood Bx10 buses along Henry Hudson Parkway or down on Kappock Street, and the Bx9 is its own mess along Broadway with the gridlock down there.

[P3F]

18 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Have there been any new limited routes since SBS became a thing?

Q58

Q70

B49

B82

Bx36

 

[GreatOne2k]

22 hours ago, P3F said:

Q58

Q70

B49

B82

Bx36

 

Q50 LTD was created in 2010 a split from the QBx1

[Future ENY OP]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:35 PM, P3F said:

Q58

Q70

B49

B82

Bx36

 

B49 is Rush hours limited (AM).

[OIG119]

59 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

B49 is Rush hours limited (AM).

It also runs southbound only.

[RailRunRob]

On 5/11/2018 at 7:49 AM, Lawrence St said:

Westchester County has not had a new limited stop route since the 21. People along The 7, which is the longest, slowest unreliable crosstown, have been trying to get limited stop service for the last 5 years or so, and the government has been ignoring their pleas. There have been proposals of having the 91 run as the limited stop variant to the 7 (the same route it uses during the summer, except it ends at New Rochelle). 

What I'm saying is the way how limited service is added or changed needs to have new guidelines based on the ridership. If it were up to me for the Bx9 SBS, it would be:

262nd St

242nd St

238th St

234th St

231st St

225th St

All of these stops have high ridership usage, with Marble Hill being the most used since most people transfer to/from the  and Bx9.

3

Wait what?  262nd to 242nd?  Mosholu or at the very least 25I st should be added.

[Lawrence St]

Oh whoops, forgot to add that. It's sorta hard to look at your document and reply at the same time. 

[WestFarms36]

On 5/11/2018 at 9:13 AM, Lawrence St said:

There is NOT enough ridership to justify the SBS stopping in between 242nd St and 262nd St. If anything, people coming from Yonkers use the Bx9 more. You obviously don't ride the Bx9 as much as I do, I see the ridership patterns. People in between still have the local, and the  for that matter.  The service frequency on the local will be the same as it always has been. 

You have to understand that the Masses who count are New York City Residents. No one in Hell would approve a plan that basically would be dissing people living in Riverdale, especially when there is no benefit going towards them. The Bee Line goes to 242 St for a reason...

At 242 St you can connect to the Bx9 or the train. The Bx9 terminates at 262 Street for the convenience of New York City residents, and residents of Riverdale, not to pamper people from Yonkers. Plus if the Bx9 ever got +SBS+ I'd see it terminating at Broadway-225 St, and not 262 St. It is called New York City Bus for a reason, lets not forget here. But you can't throw the very people who keep the service running under the bus. If its about Yonkers, they already have 4 or 5 routes that bring them into NYC.

[Lawrence St]

14 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said:

You have to understand that the Masses who count are New York City Residents. No one in Hell would approve a plan that basically would be dissing people living in Riverdale, especially when there is no benefit going towards them. The Bee Line goes to 242 St for a reason...

At 242 St you can connect to the Bx9 or the train. The Bx9 terminates at 262 Street for the convenience of New York City residents, and residents of Riverdale, not to pamper people from Yonkers. Plus if the Bx9 ever got +SBS+ I'd see it terminating at Broadway-225 St, and not 262 St. It is called New York City Bus for a reason, lets not forget here. But you can't throw the very people who keep the service running under the bus. If its about Yonkers, they already have 4 or 5 routes that bring them into NYC.

 

You can't turn SBS buses around at Marble Hill, there is no point.

[WestFarms36]

Just now, Lawrence St said:

 

You can't turn SBS buses around at Marble Hill, there is no point.

does not want to risk having +SBS+ routes running under the EL, why do you think the B46 doesn't go to Williamsburg Plz, same reason. The Bx41 doesn't go to Wakefield for the same exact reason, does not want to have +SBS+ running under EL's at all, it is their last resort and they have tried to avoid that strategically.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

 

You can't turn SBS buses around at Marble Hill, there is no point.

Sure you could.  Terminate at 225th, the bus turns onto Broadway, crosses the Broadway Bridge, takes 9th Avenue and comes back around on Broadway and turns onto 225th.  The M100 terminates at 220th and Broadway and likely does something similar (turns onto 9th Avenue and comes around back onto Broadway).

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, WestFarms36 said:

does not want to risk having +SBS+ routes running under the EL, why do you think the B46 doesn't go to Williamsburg Plz, same reason. The Bx41 doesn't go to Wakefield for the same exact reason, does not want to have +SBS+ running under EL's at all, it is their last resort and they have tried to avoid that strategically.

But then your depriving people of River dale from using the Select, the EXACT argument that we have been having for the past week.

[WestFarms36]

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

But then your depriving people of River dale from using the Select, the EXACT argument that we have been having for the past week.

Riverdale is fine with the local, as long as the frequencies are flawless and not reduced, plus the more dense part of the Bx9 is below 225 St.