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Bx9 SBS Study


Lawrence St

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2 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said:

Riverdale is fine with the local, as long as the frequencies are flawless and not reduced, plus the more dense part of the Bx9 is below 225 St.

So if the select skips all stops between 262nd St and 242nd St with a stop at 251st St, y'all immediately start shutting my idea down. But if the select ends at 225th, everyone is happy.

Is there something I'm missing? Please explain, I'm new to this bus planning thing.

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5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So if the select skips all stops between 262nd St and 242nd St with a stop at 251st St, y'all immediately start shutting my idea down. But if the select ends at 225th, everyone is happy.

Is there something I'm missing? Please explain, I'm new to this bus planning thing.

It's pretty simple.  It's one thing to have the bus END at 225th in Marble Hill and another to have it run to the borders of Riverdale but only serve two stops in the entire neighborhood.  The 225th street set up works as long as Riverdale has good service.  We already have a similar service up the hill where I'm at.  For every BxM1 that skips Spuyten Duyvil, there's one roughly 10 minutes prior, so you don't need both BxM1s stopping in Spuyten Duyvil.  It works because the people like myself who live in Central Riverdale, Fieldston and North Riverdale, get a faster ride and the buses usually meet up along West 230th street.

http://web.mta.info/busco/schedules/bxm1cur.pdf

 

On the weekdays, all of the buses that stop at Riverdale Avenue and West 236th street skip Spuyten Duyvil entirely.  That saves us 5 - 10 minutes or more.

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21 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So if the select skips all stops between 262nd St and 242nd St with a stop at 251st St, y'all immediately start shutting my idea down. But if the select ends at 225th, everyone is happy.

Is there something I'm missing? Please explain, I'm new to this bus planning thing.

Your original idea did not NOT have buses stopping at 251st.... You sat there & defiantly stated, verbatim - and with supporting arguments trying to justify SBS' skipping all stops between 262nd & 242nd on top of it, by saying:

Quote

There is NOT enough ridership to justify the SBS stopping in between 242nd St and 262nd St. If anything, people coming from Yonkers use the Bx9 more. You obviously don't ride the Bx9 as much as I do, I see the ridership patterns. People in between still have the local, and the  for that matter.  The service frequency on the local will be the same as it always has been. 

Funny how RailRunRob brings up Mosholu & 251st and all of a sudden you forgot to add 251st in your plans... For everything you say you see about the ridership patterns up on that part of the Bx9, how in the world could you not have realized earlier on in this discussion that 251st is in-between 242nd & 262nd - but yet & still you commenced bringing up there not being enough ridership between 242nd & 262nd..... Chill with the disingenuousness.....

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As far as your inquiry of missing something, there isn't much to explain, outside of what's already been said about this Bx9 SBS discussion in here.... You, yourself already presented that the problem with the current Bx9 isn't in Riverdale & it being on Broadway and east of 225th St..... You realize that & you'd still want to try to force these SBS's on up to Riverdale-262nd.... I don't think you realize that Riverdalians aren't doing all that riding on the Bx9 past 225th enough to where SBS would make any real difference for those folks anyway.... Those 225th-262nd short turns exist for a reason & speed doesn't have much to do with it.......

 

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1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

Your original idea did not NOT have buses stopping at 251st.... You sat there & defiantly stated, verbatim - and with supporting arguments trying to justify SBS' skipping all stops between 262nd & 242nd on top of it, by saying:

Funny how RailRunRob brings up Mosholu & 251st and all of a sudden you forgot to add 251st in your plans... For everything you say you see about the ridership patterns up on that part of the Bx9, how in the world could you not have realized earlier on in this discussion that 251st is in-between 242nd & 262nd - but yet & still you commenced bringing up there not being enough ridership between 242nd & 262nd..... Chill with the disingenuousness.....

-------

As far as your inquiry of missing something, there isn't much to explain, outside of what's already been said about this Bx9 SBS discussion in here.... You, yourself already presented that the problem with the current Bx9 isn't in Riverdale & it being on Broadway and east of 225th St..... You realize that & you'd still want to try to force these SBS's on up to Riverdale-262nd.... I don't think you realize that Riverdalians aren't doing all that riding on the Bx9 past 225th enough to where SBS would make any real difference for those folks anyway.... Those 225th-262nd short turns exist for a reason & speed doesn't have much to do with it.......

 

You do know people tend to forget things right? I didn't realize because I normally take the BxM3 and am use to taking Bee Line when I miss the BxM3. I had 251st St in my plans, it just wasn't bolded so I didn't see it was an actual stop.

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3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

You do know people tend to forget things right? I didn't realize because I normally take the BxM3 and am use to taking Bee Line when I miss the BxM3. I had 251st St in my plans, it just wasn't bolded so I didn't see it was an actual stop.

Sure, people tend to forget things....

I suppose you also "forgot" that our counterargument had nothing to do with 251st - because you never mentioned it to begin with.... Then you come on here with this "y'all immediately start shutting my idea down", woe is me crap, as if you had 251st mentioned in that OP the whole time..... We aren't that stupid to argue that Riverdale wouldn't go for having buses run nonstop b/w 242nd & 262nd if 251st was originally mentioned.....

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1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

Sure, people tend to forget things....

I suppose you also "forgot" that our counterargument had nothing to do with 251st - because you never mentioned it to begin with.... Then you come on here with this "y'all immediately start shutting my idea down", woe is me crap, as if you had 251st mentioned in that OP the whole time..... We aren't that stupid to argue that Riverdale wouldn't go for having buses run nonstop b/w 242nd & 262nd if 251st was originally mentioned.....

I didn't say anything about shooting my idea down because I forgot to add 251st, read.

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2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I didn't say anything about shooting my idea down because I forgot to add 251st, read.

I'm alluding to the fact that you're misrepresenting our counterargument.....

"So if the select skips all stops between 262nd St and 242nd St with a stop at 251st St, y'all immediately start shutting my idea down"

 

But of course, it's easier to paint yourself as a victim.....

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On 5/11/2018 at 9:13 AM, Lawrence St said:

There is NOT enough ridership to justify the SBS stopping in between 242nd St and 262nd St. If anything, people coming from Yonkers use the Bx9 more. You obviously don't ride the Bx9 as much as I do, I see the ridership patterns. People in between still have the local, and the (1) for that matter.  The service frequency on the local will be the same as it always has been. 

 

47 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

You do know people tend to forget things right? I didn't realize because I normally take the BxM3 and am use to taking Bee Line when I miss the BxM3. I had 251st St in my plans, it just wasn't bolded so I didn't see it was an actual stop.

Anyways....

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Why do you always want to start problems?

Apparently, I want to start problems because I have nothing better to do. Just like certain other users who posts here. Not pointing names though but it's obvious who does and who dosen't.

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2 hours ago, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

the ideal Bx9 SBS would be this.

LOCAL from 262nd to 242nd. then run via Bailey Ave between Van Cortlandt Park S and 225th St/Kingsbridge Rd.

That's why I asked Exact route I was thinking via Bailey.  Local stops are well spaced north of 242nd so I see your point there so Local north of 242 isnt out of the realm of possibility. I was thinking maybe

  • 262nd
  • Mosholu 
  • 251st
  • 242nd
  • 238th/Bailey
  • 231th Bailey 
  • 225th/Bailey

Been quite a while since I've used the 9 daily I remember those 4 stops being the major ones in Riverdale. 259th may be right after.

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18 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

That's why I asked Exact route I was thinking via Bailey.  Local stops are well spaced north of 242nd so I see your point there so Local north of 242 isnt out of the realm of possibility. I was thinking maybe

  • 262nd
  • Mosholu 
  • 251st
  • 242nd
  • 238th/Bailey
  • 231th Bailey 
  • 225th/Bailey

Been quite a while since I've used the 9 daily I remember those 4 stops being the major ones in Riverdale. 259th may be right after.

I was thinking have Locals terminate at 242nd St while the SBS is running, and SBS makes all local stops north of 242nd

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On 5/14/2018 at 11:00 PM, RailRunRob said:

Just wondering for a SBS BX9 to the Cityline would Bailey Ave maybe be a work around ?  Or is that missing to many direct connections? Bx7 Bx20? 231street Station?

Even though Bailey is proximate to B'way, a Bx9 service via Broadway & a Bx9 service via Bailey would serve (I should say benefit) two completely different markets... Any Riverdalian trying to get to Fordham and points south will appreciate such a service, but I don't really see Kingsbridge folks being all too willing to trek over to Bailey for SBS.... They'd likely stay on B'way & gut it out on the Bx9 locals.....

On 5/15/2018 at 4:43 AM, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

the ideal Bx9 SBS would be this.

LOCAL from 262nd to 242nd. then run via Bailey Ave between Van Cortlandt Park S and 225th St/Kingsbridge Rd.

Ideal, for who though?

On 5/16/2018 at 1:48 AM, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

I was thinking have Locals terminate at 242nd St while the SBS is running, and SBS makes all local stops north of 242nd

Layover space & turnaround issues would hinder that... Can't really have the bee-lines & Bx9's doing that turnaround.

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12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Even though Bailey is proximate to B'way, a Bx9 service via Broadway & a Bx9 service via Bailey would serve (I should say benefit) two completely different markets... Any Riverdalian trying to get to Fordham and points south will appreciate such a service, but I don't really see Kingsbridge folks being all too willing to trek over to Bailey for SBS.... They'd likely stay on B'way & gut it out on the Bx9 locals.....

People don't do it now when the Bx9 gets re-routed there so yeah...

12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Ideal, for who though?

That's inherently my issue, as a rider, I can't think of an ideal way to SBS the Bx9. End it at 225 and the Broadway service will be non-existent; SBS via Bailey misses everything important and the Bx10 covers that stretch well; SBS via Broadway would just be stuck in traffic. A Limited is really the best case scenario but it's not bound to happen.

13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Layover space & turnaround issues would hinder that... Can't really have the bee-lines & Bx9's doing that turnaround.

Once the new lanes go into effect, I imagine its going to be harder for them to keep turning Bx9's there.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I took the BxM3 (a Super Express one) this morning as I needed an express bus Metrocard.  I only had a few minutes to wait at 246th and Broadway, but something I notice when I wait for the BxM3 is there are very few northbound Bx9 buses.  Always at least one or two Bx9s coming southbound. Very strange.  I live close to Fieldston, so after a stop along Riverdale Avenue, I came down via Fieldston Road and then cut over to Manhattan College Parkway from Greystone. At the corner of Manhattan College Parkway and Broadway, there's a new apartment building going up.  I wonder if that'll add more Bx9 riders, BxM3 riders and or subway riders.  Not sure what sort of housing it'll be. I'll look the next time I'm down there.

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On 6/6/2018 at 10:56 PM, dkupf said:

Based on NYCT's own schedules, the only time SBS is justified, let alone limited-stop service, is during the weekday peak.

They said that for the B82 as well. Guidelines are just that...guidelines. You shouldn't blatantly ignore them, but you shouldn't blindly follow them. 

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On 5/8/2018 at 10:14 PM, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

This is how I'd plan the Bx9 SBS if it were to be a thing (which I wouldn't totally be against)... an easy way to avoid the whole Broadway problem is to have there be a Bx9 Local and a Bx9 SBS:

The Bx9 Local would run its normal route along Broadway and Kingsbridge Road, and the Bx9 SBS would use Bailey Avenue instead from 225th Street to Van Cortlandt Park South. This way you can avoid having the SBS run underneath the EL and it wouldn't be too far away from Broadway itself (the farthest Bailey Avenue is from Broadway is 1,480 ft and that's only near VCP where the bus probably wouldn't be stopping). Routing would also be the same distance (6.5 miles northbound and 6.2 southbound). Only downside would be that the SBS route wouldn't directly serve the (1) except at 242nd, but at least riders can still take the Bx9 local for Broadway, and this in turn means that the Bx9 SBS wouldn't have to deal with all the Broadway traffic.

Stops I'd have for the Bx9 SBS would be (both directions):

Tremont Ave And Boston Rd

E 180th St and Boston Rd

E 180th St and Southern Blvd

Southern Blvd and Fordham Rd

Fordham Rd and Fordham Plz

Kingsbridge Rd and Grand Concourse

Kingsbridge Rd and Jerome Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and University Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and Sedgwick Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and Bailey Ave / Heath Ave

Bailey Ave and 231st St

Bailey Ave and 238th St

Broadway and 242nd St

Broadway and 254th St

Broadway and 262nd St

Not a bad idea, but Bailey is too far from the businesses on Bway. Plus, walking from Bailey to Bway is difficult as the Deegan in between limits the number of cross streets. I would put your SBS on Kingsbridge Ave. instead. It's only a block west of Bway and traffic generally moves pretty fast. You'd run from 238 down Kingsbridge, then across 230 St. to 228 St., turn east to Bway there.

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On 6/6/2018 at 11:34 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I took the BxM3 (a Super Express one) this morning as I needed an express bus Metrocard.  I only had a few minutes to wait at 246th and Broadway, but something I notice when I wait for the BxM3 is there are very few northbound Bx9 buses.  Always at least one or two Bx9s coming southbound. Very strange.  I live close to Fieldston, so after a stop along Riverdale Avenue, I came down via Fieldston Road and then cut over to Manhattan College Parkway from Greystone. At the corner of Manhattan College Parkway and Broadway, there's a new apartment building going up.  I wonder if that'll add more Bx9 riders, BxM3 riders and or subway riders.  Not sure what sort of housing it'll be. I'll look the next time I'm down there.

It's market rate housing, billed as "luxury rentals" (!). Anyway, I hear most of the apartments are 1 bedroom, so it seems geared to young marrieds who want a reasonable commute to midtown and don't mind subway noise.

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1 minute ago, Italianstallion said:

It's market rate housing, billed as "luxury rentals" (!). Anyway, I hear most of the apartments are 1 bedroom, so it seems geared to young marrieds who want a reasonable commute to midtown and don't mind subway noise.

lol... I don't think of luxury with the subway right there, but I'm not shocked.  

 

6 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

Not a bad idea, but Bailey is too far from the businesses on Bway. Plus, walking from Bailey to Bway is difficult as the Deegan in between limits the number of cross streets. I would put your SBS on Kingsbridge Ave. instead. It's only a block west of Bway and traffic generally moves pretty fast. You'd run from 238 down Kingsbridge, then across 230 St. to 228 St., turn east to Bway there.

I'll ask you since you may live somewhat closer to Broadway than I do. I'm only down there once in a blue moon and I don't shop down there at all. Are there that many people using the Bx9 from Riverdale to shop along Broadway since that's been something that keeps popping up in this discussion? 

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol... I don't think of luxury with the subway right there, but I'm not shocked.  

 

I'll ask you since you may live somewhat closer to Broadway than I do. I'm only down there once in a blue moon and I don't shop down there at all. Are there that many people using the Bx9 from Riverdale to shop along Broadway since that's been something that keeps popping up in this discussion? 

 

 

Yeah, I hope they have soundproof windows.

 

Unfortunately I cannot answer your Bx9 question as I actually live one block from the HH Parkway and do not use the Bx9. However, when I go to Garden Gourmet or Staples, I do see a reasonable number of people boarding the northbound Bx9 at 234 St.

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Just now, Italianstallion said:

 

 

Yeah, I hope they have soundproof windows.

 

Unfortunately I cannot answer your Bx9 question as I actually live one block from the HH Parkway and do not use the Bx9. However, when I go to Garden Gourmet or Staples, I do see a reasonable number of people boarding the northbound Bx9 at 234 St.

I see... So you're as west as I am then in Riverdale.  There are some new places down there that have interested me, but it's too much of a pain to get down there and back quite frankly with the hills. It's easier to go into Manhattan.  I think if anything it would make more sense to limit car traffic during certain hours and ban cabs from parking along Broadway. From what I witness that's what really backs on traffic, particularly from 230th to 231st.  

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