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Lawrence St

Weekend Lex Service has been a disaster.

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Ever since the Clark St tubes shut down and the (4) And (5) have been going full local in Manhattan, it's been hell.

The times for the (4) in Manhattan is just unacceptable. There would be at least 2 (5) trains and 3 (6) trains coming before even one (4) train came, and that's not even the main issue! With all three services on the local track, service keeps getting delayed frequently. Just yesterday, it took me 2 hours just to get from 86th St to Moshulu Pkwy when it should have taken 30 minutes. Not only that, the transit data that was being sent out by MTA yesterday for some reason had the (4) running express from Burnside to Woodlawn, even though there was no G.O for it on the site.

The crowding is just more chaotic. I've had to pass up at least 2 (4) trains that were crowded to the max before one that was not as crowded came.

What really grinds my gears is when the (4) is the full Lexington Local while the (5) gets to go express on certain parts. If there was track work then I would understand, but there should be no point as to why the (4) runs local while the (5) is the sole Lex express. If the (6) needs more service, have some (4) trains end at 138th St and run local and use cars from the (6).

Overall, it's just been unbearable. Most of the time we have to sit in between stations for at least 10 minutes because of train traffic ahead of us. If it's this bad during the weekend I wonder how worse it is during rush hour.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

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I’m not complaining… I primarily use the Lexington Avenue Line as a connector to the Broadway–Lafayette Street or 14 Street–Union Square stations from Canal Street. It does suck if you’re using stations in the Bronx though as the shared 2-track segment means much less service for each of the branches.

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6 minutes ago, CenSin said:

I’m not complaining… I primarily use the Lexington Avenue Line as a connector to the Broadway–Lafayette Street or 14 Street–Union Square stations from Canal Street. It does suck if you’re using stations in the Bronx though as the shared 2-track segment means much less service for each of the branches.

So do I and I agree, less service + delays = late trains and madness. The (4) right now is like the (C) with no express alternative.

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The (6) is running on a 12 minute supplement headway, which is a 25% cut in local service (normal headway is 8 ). They send the (4) all-local to make up for the service cut in Manhattan but they don't account for all the merging and un-merging that needs to be done, and the slowdowns at each work zone.

Bad enough the (4) has to replace the (3) in Brooklyn every weekend, but now they want to use it to relieve the (6) in Manhattan as well.

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Early Sunday morning and late night service has improved though with the (5) running all night. 

Normally on weekends the (5) would be running 20 minute headways or not running in Manhattan at all instead of the (6) running 12 minute headways.

The (4) would still be crowded under the normal setup on 20 minute (5) service. G.O.s during Yankees or NYCFC games doesn't help either.

 

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3 hours ago, paulrivera said:

The (6) is running on a 12 minute supplement headway, which is a 25% cut in local service (normal headway is 8 ). They send the (4) all-local to make up for the service cut in Manhattan but they don't account for all the merging and un-merging that needs to be done, and the slowdowns at each work zone.

Bad enough the (4) has to replace the (3) in Brooklyn every weekend, but now they want to use it to relieve the (6) in Manhattan as well.

I took the (4) yesterday from Bowling Green, and I noticed a slight delay in train arrivals. I thought they had the (4) running local because the (6) has been getting SLAMMED at the local stops from all of the tourists. I got off at 14th Street-Union Square because the crowding was becoming ridiculous and since there was another one behind the one I was on I said screw it. I made it the the BxM1 just in time. They were re-finishing a bench at 33rd street. Why do that in the middle of the day? Sawdust flying all over the place. <_<

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Last week I was in the (4) and it ran local in Manhattan but I couldn’t bear the crowds. And to make things worse I was sitting on one of those flip seats and because of the fact that it was crowded, I couldn’t even look up. I was glad when I finally got out at 59 Street. 

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The weekend of the R62 (4) , trains were so packed that a fight broke out between someone and a one legged wheelchair man. Delayed uptown service terribly after the fight. 

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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I took the (4) yesterday from Bowling Green, and I noticed a slight delay in train arrivals. I thought they had the (4) running local because the (6) has been getting SLAMMED at the local stops from all of the tourists. I got off at 14th Street-Union Square because the crowding was becoming ridiculous and since there was another one behind the one I was on I said screw it. I made it the the BxM1 just in time. They were re-finishing a bench at 33rd street. Why do that in the middle of the day? Sawdust flying all over the place. <_<

Shoulda taken the (1) or (2) from South Ferry to the BxM2...

7th Avenue has actually been GO-free (tunnel closure notwithstanding) the last couple of weekends and actually having normal 8-minute headways on the (2) has been wonderful.

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1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

Shoulda taken the (1) or (2) from South Ferry to the BxM2...

7th Avenue has actually been GO-free (tunnel closure notwithstanding) the last couple of weekends and actually having normal 8-minute headways on the (2) has been wonderful.

I use that too... Not much better. It becomes insanely crowded around 34th Street.

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On 5/20/2018 at 3:05 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I took the (4) yesterday from Bowling Green, and I noticed a slight delay in train arrivals. I thought they had the (4) running local because the (6) has been getting SLAMMED at the local stops from all of the tourists. I got off at 14th Street-Union Square because the crowding was becoming ridiculous and since there was another one behind the one I was on I said screw it. I made it the the BxM1 just in time. They were re-finishing a bench at 33rd street. Why do that in the middle of the day? Sawdust flying all over the place. <_<

The issue is that all the express riders plus the local riders all crowd onto the platforms and it gets to the point where you can hardly even move on the platform.

It delays Lexington to the point where trains are dropping out, being extremely late and bunching happens so frequently it's ridiculous.

But as I said, if the (6) is running 12 minute headways, MTA can have some (4) and (5) trains run local and end at 3rd Av. 

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4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The issue is that all the express riders plus the local riders all crowd onto the platforms and it gets to the point where you can hardly even move on the platform.

It delays Lexington to the point where trains are dropping out, being extremely late and bunching happens so frequently it's ridiculous.

But as I said, if the (6) is running 12 minute headways, MTA can have some (4) and (5) trains run local and end at 3rd Av. 

I don't understand why they cut the (6) anyway? I mean really that makes no sense.  They let TWO (4) trains run local before letting the (6) train leave from Brooklyn Bridge.  As if (6) train service hasn't been bad enough...

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't understand why they cut the (6) anyway? I mean really that makes no sense.  They let TWO (4) trains run local before letting the (6) train leave from Brooklyn Bridge.  As if (6) train service hasn't been bad enough...

 

The (4), (5), and (6) all share the same track north of 42 St. MTA apparently can't run weekend (4),(5), and (6) service at their normal headways when they do that, so something has to be cut. Usually the (5) is cut to 20 minutes (or is cut completely), but because the (5) is running 241 - Flatbush, they can't cut the (5) now, so the (6) gets cut (because it doesn't go to Brooklyn).

 

One thing MTA did one weekend was cut the (6) back to 125 St and run the (4) and (5) local to replace the (6). After 4:30am on Monday, the (4) was by itself on Lexington for a bit because the (5) stops running below E 180 St for about 60-80 minutes.

Edited by GreatOne2k

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16 minutes ago, GreatOne2k said:

 

The (4), (5), and (6) all share the same track north of 42 St. MTA apparently can't run weekend (4),(5), and (6) service at their normal headways when they do that, so something has to be cut. Usually the (5) is cut to 20 minutes (or is cut completely), but because the (5) is running 241 - Flatbush, they can't cut the (5) now, so the (6) gets cut (because it doesn't go to Brooklyn).

 

One thing MTA did one weekend was cut the (6) back to 125 St and run the (4) and (5) local to replace the (6). After 4:30am on Monday, the (4) was by itself on Lexington for a bit because the (5) stops running below E 180 St for about 60-80 minutes.

I didn't see any track work going on though, so what gives? 

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6 hours ago, GreatOne2k said:

 

The (4), (5), and (6) all share the same track north of 42 St. MTA apparently can't run weekend (4),(5), and (6) service at their normal headways when they do that, so something has to be cut. Usually the (5) is cut to 20 minutes (or is cut completely), but because the (5) is running 241 - Flatbush, they can't cut the (5) now, so the (6) gets cut (because it doesn't go to Brooklyn).

 

One thing MTA did one weekend was cut the (6) back to 125 St and run the (4) and (5) local to replace the (6). After 4:30am on Monday, the (4) was by itself on Lexington for a bit because the (5) stops running below E 180 St for about 60-80 minutes.

So if that's the case have the (5) be the Lexington Local and the (4) be the Lex Express.

And Garibaldi is right, I have seen no work on the express track what so ever recently. It shouldn't take them the whole duration of the Clark St shutdown to work on the express tracks.

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First, you know that it was the downtown section of the Lexington tunnel between 125 St and 138 St being worked on. Also you can't easily examine the express tracks north of 42 St so saying that section is not worked on when nobody can see it is moot. 

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Realistically, none of this can be solved unless we fix flagging and/or significantly up GO productivity. Regardless of how you mix it, 15tph on the Lex on weekends will just never cut it -- there is simply too much demand. 

If it gives any hope, flagging is being worked on internally. We're testing track barriers that'd temporarily provide separation in these events, and given the current internal culture, I wouldn't be surprised if raising the limit to 15 or 20 could be put on the table. Until then, however, the best we can do is stage gap trains and communicate better.

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14 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

First, you know that it was the downtown section of the Lexington tunnel between 125 St and 138 St being worked on. Also you can't easily examine the express tracks north of 42 St so saying that section is not worked on when nobody can see it is moot. 

But my point still stands, it should take a weekend or two to repair tracks, not the whole duration of the shutdown.

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1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

First, you know that it was the downtown section of the Lexington tunnel between 125 St and 138 St being worked on. Also you can't easily examine the express tracks north of 42 St so saying that section is not worked on when nobody can see it is moot. 

Well the point is something that was said in another thread. Service should not be curtailed just for the hell of it, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they were doing track work somewhere. In my mind it's similar to the (5) line on weekends where trackwork of some sort has gone on for YEARS. This has to change. They need to find ways to get in, get the work done and get out, otherwise it never ends. Whatever work they're doing should be on the status page so that passengers know why their commutes are taking so much longer. On weekends in particular it isn't just a time issue but lots of folks simply don't have a clue about what's going on. I have to imagine that you don't travel much on weekends because there's no way anyone can sit here and not say that commuting on weekends with the subways isn't truly like running a rat maze. 

This (4)(5)(6) set up has been going on for at least a few months on weekends. The difference is that trains have moved a little better the last times I've used them. I'm curious about something. You're quick to stick up for the (MTA) on these issues. Are you actually using the service on weekends to really experience what passengers are putting up with? If you aren't then I don't think you really have room to give them the benefit of the doubt.

What I will say is as long as they have info on changes on their status page and service is running properly, the commutes can be tolerable, but if you need to get to somewhere important, you had better pack a lot of extra time. I only have one thing on weekends now that is time sensitive with the subway otherwise it doesn't matter, but nevertheless I would still like to get from 34th Street to or from Downtown in say 20-30 minutes. That seems somewhat reasonable.

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5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

So if that's the case have the (5) be the Lexington Local and the (4) be the Lex Express.

Sure if you want to give the local stations virtually no service at all...

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1 minute ago, Around the Horn said:

Sure if you want to give the local stations virtually no service at all...

What are you talking about? What G.O is causing the (6) to have 12 minute headways?

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12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm curious about something. You're quick to stick up for the (MTA) on these issues. Are you actually using the service on weekends to really experience what passengers are putting up with? If you aren't then I don't think you really have room to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not saying the MTA is perfect. It's obviously far from it. And yes, service changes have gone for years and little progress is made. What I am saying is that you guys say that there is absolutely nothing going on. Even if the work is half-@$$ like recent station renovations, it's not nothing going on.

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39 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

What are you talking about? What G.O is causing the (6) to have 12 minute headways?

(5) train service is atrocious on the weekends. There's no way it can handle the local by itself.

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24 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I'm not saying the MTA is perfect. It's obviously far from it. And yes, service changes have gone for years and little progress is made. What I am saying is that you guys say that there is absolutely nothing going on. Even if the work is half-@$$ like recent station renovations, it's not nothing going on.

Well how would you know if you don't even travel on the line on weekends?  There was an article out about this very topic a few weeks ago, not to mention that the (MTA) has already admitted to using corrupt contractors that milk contracts, so it is very well possible that no work is going on when it should be.  As I said though, if the (6) is running 12 minute headways, then surely there must be a good reason for it, like track work somewhere.

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27 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well how would you know if you don't even travel on the line on weekends?  There was an article out about this very topic a few weeks ago, not to mention that the (MTA) has already admitted to using corrupt contractors that milk contracts, so it is very well possible that no work is going on when it should be.  As I said though, if the (6) is running 12 minute headways, then surely there must be a good reason for it, like track work somewhere.

You like to assume you know what everyone is doing 24/7. If I didn't ride the system on weekends, I wouldn't even make the claim I made about how you can't see a lower level that is inaccessible to the public when it's closed off. I also guess you missed my earlier post about what I noticed the weekend of the r62 (4) .

On 5/20/2018 at 5:55 PM, MysteriousBtrain said:

The weekend of the R62 (4) , trains were so packed that a fight broke out between someone and a one legged wheelchair man. Delayed uptown service terribly after the fight. 

 

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