Five Years and $19 Billion - Byford to Unveil Massive Plan to Fix Ailing Subway

[QM1to6Ave]

8 hours ago, RR503 said:

Glad to see issues beyond maintenance are being recognized. 

That said, this plan is rife with questionable proposals. For example, why are we giving crosstown, Fulton and the Rockaways CBTC while Fourth, Culver north and CPW don't get. The latter three are vastly more used than the former, and aren't limited by design to running less than conventional signal capacity. Seems like a mistake to me. 

In the larger sense, I want specifics. I understand this is a broad summary, but as a part of their efforts to communicate what they're doing, I also want them to give us the logic and mechanisms behind their conclusions. Generally, being able to examine internal decision making processes would do worlds for public perception and understanding of these issues, while also fostering a modicum of accountability. 

Let's just hope this gets funded. Congestion pricing anyone? 

Oh yes, let's make it more expensive to travel by car when there will be severely limited subway access *eye roll*. Even if the shutdowns are happening at night, we know from that there will inevitable be delays and problems during rush hours from construction equipment on the tracks, signals in the middle of being replaced, etc. 

[RR503]

14 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Oh yes, let's make it more expensive to travel by car when there will be severely limited subway access *eye roll*. Even if the shutdowns are happening at night, we know from that there will inevitable be delays and problems during rush hours from construction equipment on the tracks, signals in the middle of being replaced, etc. 

Have you ever considered that cars may be part of the problem? Not with the subway, sure, but definitely with buses. They’re the most spatially inefficient mode of transport known to man. In the densest area of the city, I see no reason to discourage their use — especially in this day and age when so many of their numbers are roving Uber drivers. 

And as for whether this’d generate revenue, a little math is necessary. Byford’s plan is projected to cost 19 billion. Over ten years, that’s approximately 1.9 bil per year. Congestion pricing was projected to create somewhere between $810 million and 1.1 billion in annual revenue, thus allowing such a device to fund half of this plan. Not the prettiest solution, sure, but better than more debt. 

[BreeddekalbL]

Mr byford don't play with the nimbys

https://twitter.com/JohnSurico/status/999645525040386049?s=19

[I love NY]

On 5/23/2018 at 6:20 PM, rbrome said:

Finally! 

"Continuous night and weekend closures for up to 2.5 years per line" is basically what I've been saying is needed all along. I mean it seems pretty obvious, really. 

What means "Continuous night and weekend closures"?

365 nights and 52 weekends in a year?

[LGA Link N Train]

On 5/23/2018 at 10:48 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The live feed of the presentation is here:

This is going to be a painful period for customers, and I sincerely hope that Mr. Byford has the  focusing on COMMUNICATION.  He kept re-iterating how the agency was becoming more customer-centric and how they were putting customers first. It sounds great but they need to start focusing on the small things and doing those things properly.  

You know how they say it, NO PAIN NO GAIN.

On 5/23/2018 at 11:55 AM, Around the Horn said:

From the document:

What puzzles me about this map is that they won't add CBTC ton the IND portion of the Culver line, it'd complete CBTC on the train, Same with CPW, and other branches

On 5/23/2018 at 1:24 PM, CenSin said:

Surprises:

• The Crosstown () will get CBTC in 5 years?! That’s one of the most neglected lines in existence today.
• Why is the  getting it in disjoint segments? One of the busier segments shared with the  has no CBTC.
• 4 Avenue doesn’t get it despite traffic being so tight during the rush. Better control of train spacing and merge orchestration would be welcomed.
• 2 Avenue—the newest line in the system doesn’t get it.

IKR, thats absurd

[WestFarms36]

42 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

You know how they say it, NO PAIN NO GAIN.

What puzzles me about this map is that they won't add CBTC ton the IND portion of the Culver line, it'd complete CBTC on the train, Same with CPW, and other branches

IKR, thats absurd

Listen, we may find it stupid, but everything has a reason. If CBTC is installed in the busiest sections it can be done quicker than an entire line on a one by one basis. We need to focus on spreading CBTC wherever necessary and afterwards fill out the missing pieces. It also allows work to be done simultaneously and crews, equipment to be equally dispersed.

[rbrome]

1 hour ago, I love NY said:

What means "Continuous night and weekend closures"?

365 nights and 52 weekends in a year?

Yes.

[rbrome]

On 5/23/2018 at 1:24 PM, CenSin said:

Surprises:

• The Crosstown () will get CBTC in 5 years?! That’s one of the most neglected lines in existence today.
• Why is the  getting it in disjoint segments? One of the busier segments shared with the  has no CBTC.
• 4 Avenue doesn’t get it despite traffic being so tight during the rush. Better control of train spacing and merge orchestration would be welcomed.
• 2 Avenue—the newest line in the system doesn’t get it.

I can only guess that they're doing the G because it will be relatively easy. 

But that doesn't explain why they're not doing 2nd Ave. Weird. That should be the easiest of all, as it was supposedly designed to be "CBTC-ready" to some degree. 

[WestFarms36]

4 minutes ago, rbrome said:

I can only guess that they're doing the G because it will be relatively easy. 

But that doesn't explain why they're not doing 2nd Ave. Weird. That should be the easiest of all, as it was supposedly designed to be "CBTC-ready" to some degree. 

They probably are waiting to get through Phase 2 so that they can have a reasonable amount of trackage to work on.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Byford has a great thing going here. The mayor and the governor are gonna have to stop bitching at each other, and fund this thing if they want the subway in a state of good repair. It's like the current situation with the banks and cryptocurrency: if they don't implement this stuff now, they're gonna be way behind the rest world in the next 10-20 years. 

[Cabanamaner]

4 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Mr byford don't play with the nimbys

https://twitter.com/JohnSurico/status/999645525040386049?s=19

This is so good lol. The NIMBYs are the first to complain about poor service and lack of accessibility, yet when its offered to them, they throw a fit. The renovations at the 68th Street  station STILL haven't happened yet because these idiots are crying about how the "integrity" of 69th street would be ruined if they added new entrances there. I'm glad Mr. Byford won't back down to them.

[BDNQ2345]

If Lexington Av Line shutdown between 149 st to Nevins st are their gonna be a lot of Shuttle buses

[W4ST]

I am glad that this plan is ambitious because I think it will encourage things to happen, even if it doesn't happen quite as fast as planned here. If the MTA released a less ambitious plan, they could be tempted to do even less. However now they are already setting the bar high. It also sounds (and is) very good, so Cuomo and DeBlasio will look worse if they reject it. Just my thoughts. I really like the plan.

[QM1to6Ave]

2 hours ago, W4ST said:

I am glad that this plan is ambitious because I think it will encourage things to happen, even if it doesn't happen quite as fast as planned here. If the MTA released a less ambitious plan, they could be tempted to do even less. However now they are already setting the bar high. It also sounds (and is) very good, so Cuomo and DeBlasio will look worse if they reject it. Just my thoughts. I really like the plan.

I wouldn't be shocked if Byford released this plan while really expecting/wanting to get only part of it approved, as a negotiation tactic 

[Around the Horn]

Byford is purely in the advantage here... If Cuomo and DeBlasio continue to go back and forth like kids, he can just walk away and say he tried.

[itmaybeokay]

Honestly, this plan - okay okay it's gonna hurt a bit and it's got it's faults - but it's the best set of ideas I've seen come at the issue in my entire life. 

Perfect plan, no. Actionable, viable plan? Probably. Looking forward to the results. 

[N6 Limited]

2 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

When he said road capacity, he meant the surface.

Correct ,what else could he have meant? 

 

2 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Bustituting the East Side IRT 24/7 is not possible. To carry the 1.3 million riders who over the course of a day, you'd need, at least, 1,200 buses. Then how are they getting up and down 3rd and Lex without completely turning the avenues into busways? The East Side would be crippled. 

Yes, that's why I mentioned having the  riders from the Bronx use alternatives and having riders use alternatives at 125th street, with possibly having articulated express buses connect 125th and Lex to 96 and 2nd.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 hours ago, BDNQ2345 said:

If Lexington Av Line shutdown between 149 st to Nevins st are their gonna be a lot of Shuttle buses

Yes, very good... 

[B35 via Church]

15 hours ago, Cabanamaner said:

This is so good lol. The NIMBYs are the first to complain about poor service and lack of accessibility, yet when its offered to them, they throw a fit. The renovations at the 68th Street  station STILL haven't happened yet because these idiots are crying about how the "integrity" of 69th street would be ruined if they added new entrances there. I'm glad Mr. Byford won't back down to them.

That tweet just made my day....

NIMBY's are so, 20th century.... Yesteryear.... 

I'm tired of the excuses & the fake outrage (quiet is as kept).... We need progressive thinking & progressive ACTION to TROUNCE those that DESERVE to be left behind.

[RR503]

The only thing this plan has going for at w/ Cuomo is the fact this is an election year, and he faces a primary challenge from the left. If he is seen to be lackluster on his committment to funding the plan, he'll be burned alive by NYCers at the polls. 

15 hours ago, BDNQ2345 said:

If Lexington Av Line shutdown between 149 st to Nevins st are their gonna be a lot of Shuttle buses

This is why they're only doing late night/weekend shutdowns -- easier to manage mitigation efforts. 

[rbrome]

19 hours ago, WestFarms36 said:

They probably are waiting to get through Phase 2 so that they can have a reasonable amount of trackage to work on.

It would be insane to build Phase 2 as fixed and then immediately rip it out to install CBTC. Phase 2 must be built as CBTC from day one, or everyone involved should be fired.

Perhaps upgrading Phase 1 to CBTC is going to be considered part of the Phase 2 project. That would make some sense. 

[BayParkwayW]

Based on the map, I wouldn’t be surprised to see R32  trains within the next five years. Would be nice to see them make their final run on the  , where they started in 1964.

[itmaybeokay]

33 minutes ago, rbrome said:

It would be insane to build Phase 2 as fixed and then immediately rip it out to install CBTC. Phase 2 must be built as CBTC from day one, or everyone involved should be fired.

Perhaps upgrading Phase 1 to CBTC is going to be considered part of the Phase 2 project. That would make some sense. 

IIRC the signaling system there is pretty much CBTC-ready, it could fairly easily be overlaid on the existing - so it's not exactly that they're ripping it out, and I believe the plan is indeed to do so as part of phase 2. 

Now, why they didn't put the transponders on the track before they had trains running - that just seems shortsighted. 

[Wallyhorse]

On 5/25/2018 at 8:12 AM, B35 via Church said:

That tweet just made my day....

NIMBY's are so, 20th century.... Yesteryear.... 

I'm tired of the excuses & the fake outrage (quiet is as kept).... We need progressive thinking & progressive ACTION to TROUNCE those that DESERVE to be left behind.

 

On 5/24/2018 at 5:00 PM, Cabanamaner said:

This is so good lol. The NIMBYs are the first to complain about poor service and lack of accessibility, yet when its offered to them, they throw a fit. The renovations at the 68th Street  station STILL haven't happened yet because these idiots are crying about how the "integrity" of 69th street would be ruined if they added new entrances there. I'm glad Mr. Byford won't back down to them.

And WHY are they so adamant about this?  More than likely the children and grandchildren of the people who actually own the properties are worried that the prices of the properties would plummet because a subway entrance there means people "not their kind" have "access" to their block and some people might refrain from buying such properties.  Some of these people are waiting their their parents to die off so they can sell the property at a massive profit FOR THEM.

[MHV9218]

If we had a legitimate federal government, imagine how much better shape our cities (economic engine of the country) would be in. You look at this for $19 bil, the Gateway tunnel for ~$15bil, no federal help, and doomed without it. Yet we spend $500bil on the new F35 contract. Remind me why again?