Five Years and $19 Billion - Byford to Unveil Massive Plan to Fix Ailing Subway

[bobtehpanda]

13 hours ago, Deucey said:

Simple, as it comes online - CBTC, you keep the current motormen and don't replace the ones lost through attrition, termination and retirement. You redefine the job duties to have more responsibilities and higher technical skill so that few actually meet the requirements (like how some positions have classifications - i.e. Staff Nurse III and IV - that requires advanced degrees and research requirements to attain) so they're never filled, and eventually withered away.

Job positions and what they do get negotiated as part of the labor contract. How many years has the MTA spent trying to pry the station agents out of the booth?

[U-BahnNYC]

On 5/29/2018 at 8:16 PM, ABOGbrooklyn said:

That's not my point. The has shut down other lines in portions that have many riders but there is not so much of a huge controversy as their is with the and my reasons for why there is so much controversy is stated in my previous comment.

That's because the is effectively the only line to serve the areas it serves - aka all of North Brooklyn. Plus it's the only crosstown line (aside from ).

The has the and several IRT lines always nearby in Brooklyn.

[Deucey]

11 hours ago, Tricknologist said:

What more can a train operator do? They move the train and most can do the duties of a conductor.

It's not about actual duties - it's not like a staff nurse IV or a sanitation engineer V does anything more than someone in a lower grade - it's a prestige thing. Like getting a peerage in England.

But let's say they did implement this scheme. You come up with some metrics like stopping trains from max speed in 7 seconds while not exceeding X g's of pull; do research on braking and craft theories of more efficient runnings of consists of routings - akin to master's degree theses or PhD research, making it unattainable except by the highest motivated, and some of the things you gradually incorporate in the hiring and promotion requirements.

Doing that makes it an even harder job to get. Eventually you can't fill it, You get the union to negotiate eliminating the requirements, you counter about technology making it obsolete, and offer everyone a job pushing the buttons at a wage Midway between the motorman position and top conductor pay.

It only hasn't happened because  is weak, not because the unions are strong.

[Deucey]

3 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Job positions and what they do get negotiated as part of the labor contract. How many years has the MTA spent trying to pry the station agents out of the booth?

Like I said above, it hasn't happened because  is weak, not because the unions are strong.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 5/28/2018 at 8:34 PM, CDTA said:

It's really, REALLY hard to look like an unlikable person next to Cuomo. I have such a strong, palpable dislike for Cuomo, and yet every time De Blaiso opens his mouth I find myself running back into Cuomo's arms. Here's an idea Mr. Mayor. You like the millionare's tax so much? Think it's such a good idea? Implement it in the city YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER. This guy acts like he's the minority leader of the senate or something. It seems like all he does is complain about how woe is him and he can't do anything because he's just a little tiny mayor. Glad to know the mayoral office is such a weak position, can't believe he spent $13 Million on a campaign for a position that allows him to do nothing whatsoever! Grow the f**k up. Implement this plan that you think can raise so much money and use that to fund your portion of the plan instead of preemptively whining like a child that big ol mean Cuomo won't let you do anything. Run for f**king governor if you're such a genius and know how to solve all of the state's problems. I can't wait for Cuomo to come out and say he doesn't like the plan so that DeBlasio starts running around going on about how it's the best plan ever and he's doing his part and funding it but the state is bullying poor old DeBlasio and won't put up their share. Screw DeBlasio and screw the NYCGOP for putting in the one person who'd do a worse job than him as their candidate.

 

By law, New York City is not allowed to raise or lower income tax rates without permission from the State Legislature. (NYC is actually the only city in the state that needs the rest of the state's permission to govern itself.  All other cities get to enjoy "home rule" and decide their own affairs.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

By law, New York City is not allowed to raise or lower income tax rates without permission from the State Legislature. (NYC is actually the only city in the state that needs the rest of the state's permission to govern itself.  All other cities get to enjoy "home rule" and decide their own affairs.)

Probably going back to the days when NYC went bankrupt...

[bobtehpanda]

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Probably going back to the days when NYC went bankrupt...

The current state constitution is from like the 1800s and the last passed amendments were from like the '30s.

The rest of the state has always had an inferiority complex, which is interesting because the city's economy has always greased the wheels, even in the '70s when all those workers fled to the suburbs but still worked in the city. Today the city is something like two thirds of the state's revenues, but we sure as hell ain't gettin two thirds of the state's money.

[Trainmaster5]

On 5/31/2018 at 12:37 AM, bobtehpanda said:

The TWU won that battle years ago.

Heck, if the MTA can't even justify cutting down conductor staffing, which doesn't even need technology, what makes you think that this will work any better?

Actually the TWU didn't win that battle totally. Wiser heads prevailed when everyone sat down and saw the pitfalls in the bigger picture. Every line becomes OPTO non-rush hours until the first sick passenger incident or evacuation comes along. In the former case you can't discharge the train and leave the conductor with the ill person so the train can move on and service can resume. Otherwise you are left with the scenario in a CBTC failure where nothing can move until help arrives. The latter scenario is obvious. The other reason not mentioned was the case where the the T/O becomes incapacitated or injured.  Who calls for help and keeps the RCC and the passengers informed? It seemed like cooler heads and the legal department won that argument. To put it in simple terms why do you think that there is a train operator still up front in a NTT consist that could conceivably be totally automated?  Think about it.  Carry on. 

[bobtehpanda]

5 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Actually the TWU didn't win that battle totally. Wiser heads prevailed when everyone sat down and saw the pitfalls in the bigger picture. Every line becomes OPTO non-rush hours until the first sick passenger incident or evacuation comes along. In the former case you can't discharge the train and leave the conductor with the ill person so the train can move on and service can resume. Otherwise you are left with the scenario in a CBTC failure where nothing can move until help arrives. The latter scenario is obvious. The other reason not mentioned was the case where the the T/O becomes incapacitated or injured.  Who calls for help and keeps the RCC and the passengers informed? It seemed like cooler heads and the legal department won that argument. To put it in simple terms why do you think that there is a train operator still up front in a NTT consist that could conceivably be totally automated?  Think about it.  Carry on. 

Are T/Os and conductors trained to handle people in medical distress? The trains often get delayed or stop running anyways if there is a sick passenger situation; it certainly doesn't seem like it's helping.

On top of that, if this is such a beneficial practice, why are we one of the few subway systems that actually does it?

[Trainmaster5]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Are T/Os and conductors trained to handle people in medical distress? The trains often get delayed or stop running anyways if there is a sick passenger situation; it certainly doesn't seem like it's helping.

On top of that, if this is such a beneficial practice, why are we one of the few subway systems that actually does it?

Your job is to check the situation out and call for help ( EMS, PD, FD) as needed. If instructed to by the RCC the C/R is to remain with the sick customer after the train is discharged and await help. That way the following trains can continue to move. There are situations where the customer can't be safely moved which brings things to a standstill. I've had a shooting on my train with no injuries where my train remained berthed at Wall St on the Lex for 90 minutes. The NYPD took over in that case. They, not Transit, were in charge. Childbirth at 59th and Lex express track put FDNY/EMS in charge and the Battalion Chief made the original call until EMS was on scene. That took less than 20 minutes but, once again,  the train did not move. In each instance the outside agency takes control of the situation and they tell the RCC when the train can be moved. I knew of three RTO employees who were EMT's before coming to transit but they weren't authorized, by the , to touch a sick customer either. I can't speak to your last question because every system has it's own procedures in place. I can say that I've been on the LIRR where the sick customer situation arose and  those trains remained in the stations ( Mineola, Brentwood, and Nostrand Avenue) until medical help arrived on the scene. I'm not a lawyer but your last question leaves me puzzled. Are you suggesting that the sick customer should be carried down the line until someone responds ? The is self-insured but all that means is that the agency, and the taxpayers of New York, are going to be on the hook for major payouts down the line. I can see the Cellino & Barnes commercials already, lol. There is no way the could win a jury trial under those circumstances.  That's what my experiences and training taught me. Maybe things have changed since I retired. Carry on.

[Deucey]

37 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Are you suggesting that the sick customer should be carried down the line until someone responds ? The is self-insured but all that means is that the agency, and the taxpayers of New York, are going to be on the hook for major payouts down the line. I can see the Cellino & Barnes commercials already, lol. 

@bobtehpanda: It’s called scope of practice - unless the position requires skills and licensure or certification to make that judgment, employees of an organization cannot make the call to remove a sick passenger, close a crime scene, nor declare an environment safe after an incident (ie fire).

That’s why you’ll see  employees ask a conscious person in a medical situation if they want medical assistance until they get a “yes” or determine that the person cannot make that choice cogently. The minute a conductor or t/o tells that sick passenger to get off the train, s/he exceeded their position’s scope of practice and  is on the hook for whatever happens next - more severe injury, death, etc. 

Good Samaritan law applies to us - non-employees - because we don’t have implied organizational authority (we’re “just trying to help”), so long as we’re not deliberately attempting to cause harm (aka putting the needs of the person requiring assistance above our own).

[RR503]

Well now, look what we have here: the official cost of Fast Forward.

According to this video (which was internal until Progressive Railroading got their hands on it), it's gonna cost 40 billion over the 10 years. 

Let the games begin folks!

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

8 hours ago, RR503 said:

Well now, look what we have here: the official cost of Fast Forward.

According to this video (which was internal until Progressive Railroading got their hands on it), it's gonna cost 40 billion over the 10 years. 

Let the games begin folks!

 

@Via Garibaldi 8 Andy Byford says not to worry about the cuts. 😂😂😂

Nah but at least he acknowledges the mta is in a financial crisis and he want to minimize service cuts.

[Mtatransit]

I mean one of the things they were cutting is the elevator eoperatir at 168th St Station. Even if there was no financial crisis they should be cut. This is 21st Century we do not need someone to press the buttons for us.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

I mean one of the things they were cutting is the elevator eoperatir at 168th St Station. Even if there was no financial crisis they should be cut. This is 21st Century we do not need someone to press the buttons for us.

The problem is those elevators are so old, disgusting and HOT.  It's an insult that they have not replaced all of them.  They're prone to breaking down which is why they need them there, but I agree.  I think the concern is that they have to go so deep underground that if they are stuck, people won't be able to call for help on their cell phones.  I usually don't get signal in those stations because they're so deep below ground.

[Mtatransit]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The problem is those elevators are so old, disgusting and HOT.  It's an insult that they have not replaced all of them.  They're prone to breaking down which is why they need them there, but I agree.  I think the concern is that they have to go so deep underground that if they are stuck, people won't be able to call for help on their cell phones.  I usually don't get signal in those stations because they're so deep below ground.

Yeah those elevators are ridiculously hot... They should’ve replace that elevator long ago... could’ve save some money eliminating that position a few years back.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

Yeah those elevators are ridiculously hot... They should’ve replace that elevator long ago... could’ve save some money eliminating that position a few years back.  

Good luck with that. They have to replace I believe at least 3 or 4 of them per station up there in Washington Heights along the  line, and given how bloated the cost is for elevator and escalator replacement with the , it would probably cost them 3 - 4 times what it should cost. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 Andy Byford says not to worry about the cuts. 😂😂😂

Nah but at least he acknowledges the mta is in a financial crisis and he want to minimize service cuts.

I watched a video. That's just a nice way of saying we're going to cut service using underhanded methods, as they have been doing, like when the regular B/O goes on vacation, not filling those trips as they usually do. I wouldn't call that "unnecessary" spending, but perhaps the  does.  As it stands now though, they've admitted to using that practice, and also admitted that it saves them millions of dollars a year, but that it is really an unofficial service cut.