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If you could create/change any bus line in NYC what would it be?


Lil 57

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Just now, Lil 57 said:

SIM50 - GWB bus terminal

SIM51 - PABT 

I don't know about those routes. They seem like a waste quite frankly.  There's already an express bus that runs by PABT... The X21 along with the X30... With the new routes, I believe a few of them will continue to run along 42nd then come up Madison.  I'd say no out right to the SIM50.  

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2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't know about those routes. They seem like a waste quite frankly.  There's already an express bus that runs by PABT... The X21 along with the X30... With the new routes, I believe a few of them will continue to run along 42nd then come up Madison.  I'd say no out right to the SIM50.  

The X21 and X30 don't go to the deep South shore though.

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11 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

The X21 and X30 don't go to the deep South shore though.

That's not a problem.  People drive to whatever they need.  Plenty of people drive to the X17J or the X1 from the South Shore.  Hell even I used to be driven to the X17J and X17C. Most of the island can be reached in no more than 15 minutes driving, regardless of your location.  We don't need express buses running all over the place just because. It's not necessarily going to deter people from driving there.  People are going to look for the fastest commute. During the week I'd be driven to the X17J and dropped far enough south on Richmond Avenue to ensure that I got a nice seat but not so far that the commute was too long.  On weekends with the X17C, I'd just get dropped off near or at the last stop if it was later in the day, this way I'm on the SIE and in Manhattan in 20 minutes or less if the bus made good time.

I always had the times of several express buses down, this way if I wanted to sleep in later, I could grab car service, and still get into the office on-time.

The South Shore has had grown in its population, but it is still by far the most suburban part of the island, and thus people are still very much inclined to drive.  The (MTA) has added more express bus service to try to accommodate the growth and mainly to keep people from driving to routes like the X1 and others, but you don't need that much service down there. A route like the X22 with some Super Express trips does the job just fine, with a few other express bus lines. I agree with what the (MTA) is doing with the new express bus plans down there for sure. Have weekend service down there and have longer service during the week. That'll stop some folks from driving to the Eltingville Transit Center and take some strain off of routes like the X1.

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1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

The X21 and X30 don't go to the deep South shore though.

All the "via NJ" routes in the new plan will run down 42nd Street. People can literally walk a few blocks down to the SIM26 on Bloomingdale.

4 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

The S50 LTD would be used by CSI studes that live on the south shore and by people that live in the middle of the south shore. Overnight, the S50 LTD would provide service to people coming form the X1 (later to be called SIM1) and SIM50 late nights.

Ending a local bus (where the ridership base generally doesn't drive) at a park-and-ride is a good way to have empty buses (I mean for that matter, the X22A doesn't get many riders at the Outerbridge Park & Ride. From Tottenville yes, but not from the Park & Ride itself). 

That route definitely doesn't need overnight service. Not that I would agree to that either, but I'd give the S55 or S56 overnight service before a route down Drumgoole (Personally, I don't think Drumgoole even needs a local route. I would restructure the South Shore routes, but by serving it through the cross streets (similar to what the MTA plans for the express routes on Woodrow), I think it would provide enough coverage and connectivity to where those riders want to go (ETC, Tottenville High School, SI Mall, Bricktown, etc)

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4 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

All the "via NJ" routes in the new plan will run down 42nd Street. People can literally walk a few blocks down to the SIM26 on Bloomingdale.

Ending a local bus (where the ridership base generally doesn't drive) at a park-and-ride is a good way to have empty buses (I mean for that matter, the X22A doesn't get many riders at the Outerbridge Park & Ride. From Tottenville yes, but not from the Park & Ride itself). 

That route definitely doesn't need overnight service. Not that I would agree to that either, but I'd give the S55 or S56 overnight service before a route down Drumgoole (Personally, I don't think Drumgoole even needs a local route. I would restructure the South Shore routes, but by serving it through the cross streets (similar to what the MTA plans for the express routes on Woodrow), I think it would provide enough coverage and connectivity to where those riders want to go (ETC, Tottenville High School, SI Mall, Bricktown, etc)

1. The park and ride is supposed to be converted into a huge bus station (as stated in the Google doc) People would be able to transfer from MTA Buses to NJT and other bus services (Greyhound, etc...) Hence, the S50 LTD, S72 and S113 all serve the park and ride.

2. Park and Ride aside, my new S70 would serve Huguenot Ave and my S75 would serve Arden Ave.

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1 minute ago, Lil 57 said:

1. The park and ride is supposed to be converted into a huge bus station (as stated in the Google doc) People would be able to transfer from MTA Buses to NJT and other bus services (Greyhound, etc...) Hence, the S50 LTD, S72 and S113 all serve the park and ride.

2. Park and Ride aside, my new S70 would serve Huguenot Ave and my S75 would serve Arden Ave.

It's a huge bus station, but it's still in the middle of nowhere pedestrian-wise (very few residences or businesses in the immediate area), and it doesn't even have a SIR station in the immediate vicinity.

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9 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

It's a huge bus station, but it's still in the middle of nowhere pedestrian-wise (very few residences or businesses in the immediate area), and it doesn't even have a SIR station in the immediate vicinity.

It's only a 10 minute walk (3 min drive) to the Pleasant Plains SIR station. There could also be a free shuttle bus running from the Park and Ride to the SIR or an SIR extension branch to the Park and Ride. My S72 Bus from the Park and Ride to Tottenville also serves the Pleasant Plains SIR station.

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13 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

It's only a 10 minute walk (3 min drive) to the Pleasant Plains SIR station. There could also be a free shuttle bus running from the Park and Ride to the SIR or an SIR extension branch to the Park and Ride. My S72 Bus from the Park and Ride to Tottenville also serves the Pleasant Plains SIR station.

That's still another transfer, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of having a hub there. You might as well just have it at Pleasant Plains if that's your intention. 

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10 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's still another transfer, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of having a hub there. You might as well just have it at Pleasant Plains if that's your intention. 

My long-term solution would be to create a wye in between the Pleasant Plains and Richmond Vally SIR stations that ends at the Outerbridge Bus Station. There would be frequent shuttles In-between the Park & Ride and Tottenville station, (5-10 mins during the Peak hours 15 mins during the Off-peak hours and 30 minutes Overnight). There would also be a not-as-frequent branch running Northbound from the Park & Ride to St. George, (15 minutes during the Peak Hours and hourly service during the Off-peak hours and bi-hourly service Overnight).   

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3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Depending on the price and the time and frequency.  Then you have the S89 to the light rail riders. Not sure if they'd ditch that commute...

I really don't understand why links between SI and NJ aren't so plentiful. When you have so many people going across the bridges for work and shopping, it makes sense to have more than a rush hour bus - especially if cleaner air via traffic reduction is something everyone's interested in.

That said, I think it's stupid that the Bayonne Bridge construction didn't include at least provision for HBLR to come to SI. Not to mention the lack of an express bus from SI to MetroPark, but I guess that's down to fiefdoms.

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Just now, Deucey said:

I really don't understand why links between SI and NJ aren't so plentiful. When you have so many people going across the bridges for work and shopping, it makes sense to have more than a rush hour bus - especially if cleaner air via traffic reduction is something everyone's interested in.

That said, I think it's stupid that the Bayonne Bridge construction didn't include at least provision for HBLR to come to SI. Not to mention the lack of an express bus from SI to MetroPark, but I guess that's down to fiefdoms.

1

My S113, S114, and S119 LTD buses should do the trick.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

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7 minutes ago, Deucey said:

I really don't understand why links between SI and NJ aren't so plentiful. When you have so many people going across the bridges for work and shopping, it makes sense to have more than a rush hour bus - especially if cleaner air via traffic reduction is something everyone's interested in.

That said, I think it's stupid that the Bayonne Bridge construction didn't include at least provision for HBLR to come to SI. Not to mention the lack of an express bus from SI to MetroPark, but I guess that's down to fiefdoms.

The people that are shopping there want to drive there. As I said, Manhattan is a different animal.

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41 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Who's going to use it? Nobody is doing that trip in large amounts. I don't see a justification for even rush hour service on this line. 

This resembles a QJT-like line.

1. People going to upper Manhatten or the Bronx. (Columbia Hosp, Washington Heights, Bronx Zoo, etc.)

2. What's a QJT line?

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6 hours ago, Yankees4life said:

Do anybody think there is a demand for a route from Sheepshead Bay to KP?

Oh no... No.... not the B36 extension to KP idea suicide.gif

5 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

You are absolutely correct. KP now is a complete dump. So bad they are putting a Zara at that mall to which I find very suspect (that’s another case). KP hasn’t been attractive the late 90’s. If KP was owned by Simon than it becomes attractive again. Once the theatres shut down, no more Kings Plaza. 

People frequent to Staten Is Mall, GSP, Roosevelt Field, and the outlets. Riverhead, Deer Park, Woodbury Commons and Jersey/PA. 

Present-date, KP is lipstick on a pig.... They've spiffied up the place, but I liked KP when it was actually a drab looking dump - with a better selection of stores, back in the 80's & most of the 90's.... Now it's more visually appealing & aint got anything worth a f*** to take a ride out there to want to purchase something.....

As a Brooklynite, I don't have to tell you how long the movie theater kept KP relevant.... KP started dying before the theater closed down though; People started heading out to the (then, new) Linden Multiplex Cinemas in droves & I mean droves.....

All in all, I don't really frequent malls like that anymore anyway.... The pandering to women with these places done reached astronomical levels.... For instance - How is it I can go to a mall & end up not just questioning why I left the entire mall with no bags whatsoever, but questioning where the hell the stores for men even at!!

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It is.  Malls in general aren't being as frequented as they once were because of the shift to online shopping, but KP has been a dump for so long, even with the renovation done years ago.  Long before then I had started going to boutiques to shop for clothing.  Too many seedy types shopping there.  Wasn't there an incident with the security there? I can't recall if someone pulled a gun or not, but something crazy, and the store selection went down hill as well.

Incident w/ security? LMAO..... What the hell does KP security even do - other than drive a security vehicle around the perimeter of the mall every so often & bully schoolkids every so often.....

Approach them with a situation & they act like you're doing THEM some injustice.....

4 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

See, this is important to know before proposing said route. It's not our job to find this out (since we're not proposing said route). You can't just expect to draw out a route and magically have people use it. I just don't see this route doing well in any capacity either, since, as already stated, the south shore is heavily car centric. The S74 is really the only route that does well.

You must have missed the memo.... It goes something like:

"Give people service & they will ride it" :lol::lol:

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

Now if (NJT) and DOT went and created an express service from SI to NJ business parks, I could see that being used heavily - even if it cost more than EZ Pass.

34 minutes ago, Deucey said:

I really don't understand why links between SI and NJ aren't so plentiful. When you have so many people going across the bridges for work and shopping, it makes sense to have more than a rush hour bus - especially if cleaner air via traffic reduction is something everyone's interested in.

That said, I think it's stupid that the Bayonne Bridge construction didn't include at least provision for HBLR to come to SI. Not to mention the lack of an express bus from SI to MetroPark, but I guess that's down to fiefdoms.

NJ can send a crapton of buses in/out of NYC, but god forbid NY has too many buses going "via NJ"....

No way would NJT be interested in running a service b/w SI & Metropark (even though there's clearly demand for it).... I can't fathom NJ wanting MTA buses terminating at/around Metropark either.....

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6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

You are absolutely correct. KP now is a complete dump. So bad they are putting a Zara at that mall to which I find very suspect (that’s another case). KP hasn’t been attractive the late 90’s. If KP was owned by Simon than it becomes attractive again. Once the theatres shut down, no more Kings Plaza. 

People frequent to Staten Is Mall, GSP, Roosevelt Field, and the outlets. Riverhead, Deer Park, Woodbury Commons and Jersey/PA. 

They put a JCpenny in KP that opened last month... one of my favorite stores, I have yet to visit the KP location though. I prefer KP over Gateway mall because its easier to get to from where I live (B103 to the B46) the B82 & B83 one of those routes always have some kind of delay in at least one direction when I go to Gateway SMH, plus I prefer indoor malls over outdoor ones. Gateway is too spread out. The Shoprite there is GOAT though, if I had a car that would be my main place to buy groceries..

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

What's a QJT line?

@qjtransitmaster (or QJtransit______ as I dubbed him) was a dude on here that posted a bunch of asinine bus route ideas that entailed either unnecessarily putting local buses on highways (what I used to call a "highway fetish"), or conjuring up long winded routes that there was no freakin demand for whatsoever.... Like a route going from the Bronx to Nassau County....

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16 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

NJ can send a crapton of buses in/out of NYC, but god forbid NY has too many buses going "via NJ"....

No way would NJT be interested in running a service b/w SI & Metropark (even though there's clearly demand for it).... I can't fathom NJ wanting MTA buses terminating at/around Metropark either.....

In that case, all MTA routes in NJ would have to be Closed-Door.

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The people that are currently shopping there want to drive there. As I said, Manhattan is a different animal.

Fixed. ;) I do think there might be a decent amount demand for service from Jersey Gardens (which is an outlet-type mall) from the North Shore. 

5 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

See, this is important to know before proposing said route. It's not our job to find this out (since we're not proposing said route). You can't just expect to draw out a route and magically have people use it. I just don't see this route doing well in any capacity either, since, as already stated, the south shore is heavily car centric. The S74 is really the only route that does well. 

2

See my response to VG8 below.

5 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

- How frequent should the SIM51 run?

- The S119 LTD connects with every HBLR train on weekdays and on Saturdays and every other train on Sundays. Ridership would be lower on Sundays and many people would use the S114 route to Elizabeth NJ to take the NJT train to Penn Station.

 

Why would people take a local bus to NJ to transfer to a train to pay more money than they currently pay on the express bus? Sure, I can see some people going to Elizabeth to transfer to a bus to Jersey Gardens or Newark Airport or maybe even Newark Penn, but definitely not to reach Manhattan.

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This is news to me, but I'm not aware of that many CSI students from the South Shore.  People coming from the X1 are not taking a local bus like that. Sorry, but you apparently don't use the express buses that much on Staten Island.  There's a stigma as it is on Staten Island for using the local buses, but coming from an express bus to a local bus. That is not something that is done with any regularity. Believe me, I lived on Staten Island for years and was a regular express bus commuter.  What does happen regularly is people being picked up via car from express buses. That you'll see a lot and people driving to the express bus. The only way that you'll get people taking the local bus is if something happened with the express bus and they don't have someone to pick them up, and that's so infrequent that a local bus route for that purpose wouldn't last.  I happen to be one of those that would transfer from the express bus to the local bus, but believe me that wasn't that frequent.  I usually would get car service or sometimes if the weather was nice, I'd just walk depending on when it was.  20 minute walk tops, and 5 minute cab ride, versus up to a 30 minute wait for the local bus or more if it didn't come.

Staten Island is the most insular of the five boroughs. Half of my high school graduating class went on to CSI (mostly to study nursing). Granted, that was on the North Shore (so there's probably slightly more kids looking at CUNY schools compared to say, Tottenville High School). But there's definitely a lot of students on the South Shore heading to/from CSI. How many of them would take the bus? Probably not as many as those who take the S93, but you'd definitely get riders on an extension of the S55/56 to CSI. 

The areas between Woodrow & Arthur Kill have a lot of townhouses (which is part of the reason the S74 manages to get decent ridership on the South Shore). But as I mentioned before, I think the S55/56 should be restructured within the South Shore in addition to being extended outside of it.

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not enough for a bus route, that I'm sure of.  21% of the student body come from Brooklyn, hence the S93.  

Source: https://www.silive.com/news/2017/04/great_demand_for_brooklyn-stat.html

There are some that commute with the X10 as well.

Not directed at you, but the S93 and any SI-Brooklyn ferry service would serve completely different markets. CSI is nowhere near any bodies of water (except maybe that lake in Willowbrook Park lol)

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1 minute ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Fixed. ;) I do think there might be a decent amount demand for service from Jersey Gardens (which is an outlet-type mall) from the North Shore. 

My S100 LTD, S108 LTD, and S109 LCL/LTD would serve Jersey Gardens before going to Newark Airport.

3 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

CSI is nowhere near any bodies of water (except maybe that lake in Willowbrook Park lol)

LOL 🤣

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55 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

NJ can send a crapton of buses in/out of NYC, but god forbid NY has too many buses going "via NJ"....

 No way would NJT be interested in running a service b/w SI & Metropark (even though there's clearly demand for it).... I can't fathom NJ wanting MTA buses terminating at/around Metropark either.....

I figured out NJT doesn't like doing anything except running trains and franchising. The former they're shit at; the latter Academy and CoachUSA don't truly suck at.

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44 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I've Made my S70 route a bit more useful by extending it to the SI University Hospital South.

Map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1INcsLMassY50eh0-VJCiMATCgRE6mlD6&usp=sharing

While I definitely agree there should be a route running the length of Huguenot Avenue, I don't think that's the best 

49 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

My S100 LTD, S108 LTD, and S109 LCL/LTD would serve Jersey Gardens before going to Newark Airport.

LOL 🤣

I think the S100 is pointless, and the S108 would be better off being the main branch of the S98 (in other words, I would have the S98 run from St. George to Elizabeth, with a few trips during rush hour heading to/from Arlington). As for the S109, I don't think it's the craziest idea to have something running up Richmond Avenue heading over the Goethals, but for now I'd just have people take the S59/89 (or S119 as you call it) to Forest for the S98. (I also think it's overkill to have a separate route from Port Richmond heading to the Elizabeth NJT station)

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