If you could create/change any bus line in NYC what would it be?

[Lil 57]

12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Tons of students who ride when exactly? When they aren't riding that means the buses would carry air...

Weekends for the Mall and School days to go to Tottenville and High Schools around the SI Mall. Also If there are better options for Bus Service on the South Shore, More people would take It. 😉

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Lil 57 said:

Weekends for the Mall and School days to go to Tottenville and High Schools around the SI Mall. Also If there are better options for Bus Service on the South Shore, More people would take It. 😉

Yeah just extend the S55 and S56 where needed and call it a day.  Those buses aren't used that well as it is.

[Lil 57]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Those buses aren't used that well as it is.

That's why my south shore routes would run on 12-20 Min headways Rush Hours and 30-60 minutes other times. I don't Expect a huge boost in ridership but with the new Bus Station at the Outerbridge and better coverage in the south shore to major destinations, each of these lines would have a decent amount of ridership to keep them running.    

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lil 57 said:

That's why my south shore routes would run on 12-20 Min headways Rush Hours and 30-60 minutes other times. I don't Expect a huge boost in ridership but with the new Bus Station at the Outerbridge and better coverage in the south shore to major destinations, each of these lines would have a decent amount of ridership to keep them running.    

15 minutes during the rush and 20 - 30 minutes otherwise would do the trick, otherwise it's too much service.  If the crowds are more than that, you can always run an extra bus or two.

[Lil 57]

6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

15 minutes during the rush and 20 - 30 minutes otherwise would do the trick, otherwise it's too much service.  If the crowds are more than that, you can always run an extra bus or two.

Makes sense for the South Shore. Some routes would have 40-60 min headways during weekend mornings and weekend evenings and the S75 would have 60 min headways throughout the day on Sunday. That should work. Rush hour headways should be no more than 20 mins but no less than 15. (The S50 LTD gets 12 mins in the AM and the S72 gets 10 Mins in the AM due to serving the Outerbridge Bus Station.) The S72 Gets 60 Minute Headways on Weekends due to it's Proximity to the SIR Shuttle I Proposed.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lil 57 said:

Makes sense for the South Shore. Some routes would have 40-60 min headways during weekend mornings and weekend evenings and the S75 would have 60 min headways throughout the day on Sunday. That should work. Rush hour headways should be No more than 20 mins but no less than 15. (The S50 LTD gets 12 mins in the AM and the S72 gets 10 Mins in the AM due to serving the Outerbridge Bus Station.)   

No one is going to wait 40 - 60 minutes for a local bus on weekend morning and evenings. And if that bus breaks down, that's well over an hour wait.  

[Lil 57]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No one is going to wait 40 - 60 minutes for a local bus on weekend morning and evenings. And if that bus breaks down, that's well over an hour wait.  

A lot of MTA Bus Routes have 40-60 Min Headways on weekend morning and evenings. The Q67 has 60 Minute Headways during the weekends and there aren't many complaints towards them. The frequencies on my proposed routes would be the starting frequencies and service would be added/reduced based on the demand the routes are getting. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lil 57 said:

A lot of MTA Bus Routes have 40-60 Min Headways on weekend morning and evenings. The Q67 has 60 Minute Headways during the weekends and there aren't many complaints towards them. The frequencies on my proposed routes would be the starting frequencies and service would be added/reduced based on the demand the routes are getting. 

You don't know what goes on behind the scenes.  A lot of communities are not happy with their current service. It appears to be okay because you see the same service levels and you don't hear about it the newspapers.  My community has not been happy with the bus service (local or express) for years.  Some residents just don't bother to say anything because they don't think the  will make changes, but I've been relentless about it.  It takes a LONG time to get them to make changes but if you keep the pressure on and get enough people raising hell they will eventually be forced to address the issue.  

[Lil 57]

20 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You don't know what goes on behind the scenes.  A lot of communities are not happy with their current service. It appears to be okay because you see the same service levels and you don't hear about it the newspapers.  My community has not been happy with the bus service (local or express) for years.  Some residents just don't bother to say anything because they don't think the  will make changes, but I've been relentless about it.  It takes a LONG time to get them to make changes but if you keep the pressure on and get enough people raising hell they will eventually be forced to address the issue.  

1

The Times buses are on 60-minute headways is when there wouldn't be enough demand to run them on shorter headways. For example, the S70 would run on 60 minutes headways when the Mall is Closed. Other than to connect with services on Hylan or at the ETC, Which most of those routes at the ETC run on the south shore anyway. I just don't see the ridership for anything else during that time period. If you have buses that are packed during that time (which I highly doubt), I would then add more buses. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

The Times buses are on 60-minute headways is when there wouldn't be enough demand to run them on shorter headways. For example, the S70 would run on 60 minutes headways when the Mall is Closed. Other than to connect with services on Hylan or at the ETC, Which most of those routes at the ETC run on the south shore anyway. I just don't see the ridership for anything else during that time period. If you have buses that are packed during that time (which I highly doubt), I would then add more buses. 

Hourly service should really only run overnight in limited cases.

[Lil 57]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Hourly service should really only run overnight in limited cases.

I Agree, only routes with low overnight ridership should have hourly service. All other services that run overnight should be at 30 min headways tops. But where is the ridership for 30 Min headways on Weekend Mornings and Evenings on the S50 LTD, S70 and S75 buses and on Sundays for the S75? 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Not everyone wants buses to run frequently (Bx8/24). Also the Q67 hourly service is fine exactly how it it. Only one or two people really ride the route one one trip outside of rush. 

[Lil 57]

4 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Not everyone wants buses to run frequently (Bx8/24). Also the Q67 hourly service is fine exactly how it it. Only one or two people really ride the route one one trip outside of rush. 

Then why does the Q67 run outside of rush if only 1-2 people use it? Wouldn't the just cut it if no one was really riding it?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Not everyone wants buses to run frequently (Bx8/24). Also the Q67 hourly service is fine exactly how it it. Only one or two people really ride the route one one trip outside of rush. 

The Bx24 runs mainly every 30 minutes which is just fine.  Country Club is similar to my neighborhood in that it is suburban and very quiet, and the reason they don't want buses that frequent is it's basically an all residential neighborhood. There is very little commercial business of any kind in the area save your local pizzeria, small grocery store. You really need to go outside of Country Club for any real shopping, so there's no real commercial street that you can send the buses down.  Hearing buses roar through the neighborhood is annoying.  Given the layout of Country Club, the buses have no choice but to run where they do. Where I live I'm a few blocks from the buses and the layout of Henry Hudson Parkway sort of buffers the noise and the residences are set back further from the sidewalk so you don't hear it that bad. Riverdale Avenue is mainly commercial and is wide, so again there's a noise buffer.  Country Club has a lot of areas with no sidewalks, so there's no real buffer. When the buses come down the street, you hear them loud and clear, which is not normal when living on such a residential street.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

30 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

 Also the Q67 hourly service is fine exactly how it it. Only one or two people really ride the route one one trip outside of rush. 

That's far from truth. Midday Q67 buses actually do well (before tanking at Hunterspoint Avenue). Anywhere north of that, and you're gonna be seeing relatively empty buses. The evening buses are really the only buses that fit into that category.

Weekend buses can get loads, and I've been on a few of them, but the main reason people don't use it is because of the service levels. People complain, but sometimes they also complain to the wrong people. Our former councilwoman (who rightfully got ousted in the elections) barely did anything to improve service, let alone stop service cuts to express and local services throughout the years. Only in the last few months of her term did she take an initiative to show people that "she cared".

I don't know how ridership was back then, but the Q67's role as the industrial worker shuttle is diminishing. The ridership now is actually majority local residents taking the bus to the subway. Just compare the rush hour schedule to that of 10, 15, or 20 years ago. The Q67 is important for Middle Village residents, but equally important (and maybe even more important) for Maspeth residents. If it ran every 30 minutes, and covered slightly more territory in Middle Village, I believe you can have sustainable ridership throughout the day.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That's far from truth. Midday Q67 buses actually do well (before tanking at Hunterspoint Avenue). Anywhere north of that, and you're gonna be seeing relatively empty bus. The evening buses are really the only buses that fit into that category.

 

Weekend buses can get loads, and I've been on a few of them, but the main reason people don't use it is because of the service levels. I dont know how ridership was back then, but the Q67's role as the industrial worker shuttle is diminishing. The ridership now is actually majority local residents taking the bus to the subway Just compare the rush hour schedule to that of 10, 15, or 20 years ago. The Q67 is important for Middle Village residents, but equally important (and maybe even more important) for Maspeth residents. If it ran every 30 minutes, and covered slightly more territory in Middle Village, I believe you can have sustainable ridership throughout the day.

Something else that should be noted is that Maspeth has been asking the for better bus service for years, and they keep shutting them down. I actually got involved and wrote to an elected official in that area. Darryl Irick came up with some lame excuse about how it would take too much time to re-route the express buses running through Glendale and Middle Village so they couldn't provide Maspeth with express bus service. Meanwhile there isn't any subway nearby in the entire neighborhood.

[B35 via Church]

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The Bx24 runs mainly every 30 minutes which is just fine.  Country Club is similar to my neighborhood in that it is suburban and very quiet, and the reason they don't want buses that frequent is it's basically an all residential neighborhood. There is very little commercial business of any kind in the area save your local pizzeria, small grocery store. You really need to go outside of Country Club for any real shopping, so there's no real commercial street that you can send the buses down.  Hearing buses roar through the neighborhood is annoying.  Given the layout of Country Club, the buses have no choice but to run where they do. Where I live I'm a few blocks from the buses and the layout of Henry Hudson Parkway sort of buffers the noise and the residences are set back further from the sidewalk so you don't hear it that bad. Riverdale Avenue is mainly commercial and is wide, so again there's a noise buffer.  Country Club has a lot of areas with no sidewalks, so there's no real buffer. When the buses come down the street, you hear them loud and clear, which is not normal when living on such a residential street.

Riverdalians (heavily) use their buses, Country Club does not... Hence, the difference in the sheer amount of bus route{s} & BPH roading through their respective neighborhoods...

I have always gotten the sense that Country Club/Spencer Estates residents don't want buses running in their neighborhood at any set amount of BPH (even if with it's the old Bx14 which some won't pipe down about)... It's as if they want buses entering their neighborhood, akin to livery service or something.... What they should have running in that neighborhood is some sort of community shuttle (a la, Breezy Point)...... Then we won't have to hear their convenient complaints of noise pollution

9 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That's far from truth. Midday Q67 buses actually do well (before tanking at Hunterspoint Avenue). Anywhere north of that, and you're gonna be seeing relatively empty bus. The evening buses are really the only buses that fit into that category.

Beat me to it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

29 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Riverdalians (heavily) use their buses, Country Club does not... Hence, the difference in the sheer amount of bus route{s} & BPH roading through their respective neighborhoods...

I have always gotten the sense that Country Club/Spencer Estates residents don't want buses running in their neighborhood at any set amount of BPH (even if with it's the old Bx14 which some won't pipe down about)... It's as if they want buses entering their neighborhood, akin to livery service or something.... What they should have running in that neighborhood is some sort of community shuttle (a la, Breezy Point)...... Then we won't have to hear their convenient complaints of noise pollution 

That's true, but Riverdale is much bigger overall than Country Club.  Although you can argue that both areas are mainly suburban in feel and look, Riverdale does have some dense areas, particularly Spuyten Duyvil and parts of Central Riverdale with its mix of large co-ops and condos with English tudors thrown in.  It's definitely more of a mix of urban and suburban than Country Club, though you can see that the area was much more suburban and rural prior to the creation of the Henry Hudson Bridge and the Parkway.  That's when they started building the large buildings.  Country Club is far less dense, and you really need a car, though that is the case in much of Riverdale as well.

I understand where they're coming from.  There's no real commercial street there but you can't run the bus outside of Country Club because it wouldn't serve the people that actually need to use it (seniors, kids going to school, and those who need the subway).  I don't think it's necessarily a snobby thing, but I think it's sort of similar to having a bus run in Fieldston.  The area just isn't set up for it, and the Bx24 basically meanders throughout all of Country Club, so you're going to hear that bus no matter where you are, and it's all residential streets with very little traffic.  Even in Riverdale, the streets really aren't laid out that well for buses to run down them.  If you exclude Broadway downstairs, uphill, the streets are narrow, winding and hard to get around.  Buses cannot pass each other on the Henry Hudson Parkway Service Roads south of West 239th street because they are too narrow.  The only real suitable street for buses in Riverdale is Riverdale Avenue, but too many people wouldn't be served if you didn't run bus service.  I've often wondered who was the idiot that constructed the service roads because we've had so many times where we've been stuck behind a bus or a truck parked and forget it. We were stuck half an hour waiting for the person to come out and move.

[checkmatechamp13]

11 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

You have a valid point. As I partly eluded earlier that the Brooklyn street grid is a total mess. The reason why the 23 was eliminated in the first place was low ridership and the 103 does a good job with converting those riders.  

However, I’m not saying that my suggestion would work but it’s the rinky-dink routes that got some of these cuts started in the first place. 

The B23 actually didn't have too low ridership (I think it was something like 1,500 riders, which for a short, infrequent route isn't too bad). 

10 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Weekends for the Mall and School days to go to Tottenville and High Schools around the SI Mall. Also If there are better options for Bus Service on the South Shore, More people would take It. 😉

 

I will say this: You'll see a decent crowd of Tottenville High School kids walking to Huguenot and taking the SIR to the S59/79/89 as opposed to taking the S55/56 directly (whether they're going shopping, working, or live around the mall). I'm not disagreeing that there is some degree of latent ridership on the South Shore, but I think you may be overestimating it to a degree. While it's a short ride from the ETC to the SI Mall, you have to consider that there's already frequent service between those points (with the S59/79 running 7 days per week and the S55/56/89 running weekdays). And as mentioned, the mall is only open during certain hours (which is why the first few S56 trips of the day start/end at the SI Mall). 

[Lil 57]

2 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

(which is why the first few S56 trips of the day start/end at the SI Mall). 

You mean ETC, right?

[Lil 57]

3 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I will say this: You'll see a decent crowd of Tottenville High School kids walking to Huguenot and taking the SIR to the S59/79/89 as opposed to taking the S55/56 directly (whether they're going shopping, working, or live around the mall). I'm not disagreeing that there is some degree of latent ridership on the South Shore, but I think you may be overestimating it to a degree. While it's a short ride from the ETC to the SI Mall, you have to consider that there's already frequent service between those points (with the S59/79 running 7 days per week and the S55/56/89 running weekdays). And as mentioned, the mall is only open during certain hours (which is why the first few S56 trips of the day start/end at the SI Mall). 

If Bus Service was faster and more reliable, more people would use them.

[checkmatechamp13]

23 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

You mean ETC, right?

Correct. My mistake.

22 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

If Bus Service was faster and more reliable, more people would use them.

Speed definitely isn't an issue on the South Shore routes. Reliability to an extent, I can agree with. 

[Lil 57]

OK, I plan on adding some "SIJ" Routes from SI to places in NJ such as business Parks. My SIJ1 and SIJ2 are done.

Maps: 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18CoGaGKpptrUdUV9HEPSg8GHasr3EO0n&usp=sharing

SIJ2: Weekdays Only. Express Bus Route between the Eltingville Transit Center to the Raritan Center. Via Drumgoole Road E/W, the Outerbridge Park & Ride, King Georges Post Road and Raritan Center Parkway.  

Toward Raritan Center: 6:00 AM - 9:00 PM

Toward Eltingville Transit Center: 9:00 AM - 12:00 MID

AM

NOON

PM

EVE

NITE

Weekdays:

8

30

10

60

-

 

SIJ1: Express Bus Route From the Eltingville Transit Center to either the Menlo Park Mall (Most Trips), or Ronson Road/US Hwy 1. (Rush Hour Trips) There are 2 variants of the route. (SIJ1M, and SIJ1R) All routes run Via Drumgoole Road E/W and serve the Outerbridge Park & Ride.

SIJ1M service runs between the Eltingville Transit Center and the Menlo Park Mall, serving the Metropark NJT/Amtrak train station Via The Woodbridge Center Mall, S. Wood Ave, Thornall St, Evergreen Rd and Oakwood Ave.

SIJ1M Frequencies:

Toward Menlo Park Mall

Toward Eltingville Transit Center

AM

NOON

PM

EVE

NITE

Weekdays:

MPM: 5:00 AM - 10:00 PM

ETC: 6:30 AM - 12:30 AM

10

30

12

30

-

Saturdays:

MPM: 7:00 AM - 9:30 PM

ETC: 8:30 AM - 11:00 PM

60

20

20

30

-

Sundays:

MPM: 8:00 AM - 8:30 PM

ETC: 9:30 AM - 10:00 PM

60

30

30

60

-

SIJ1R service runs between the Eltingville Transit Center and Ronson Road/US Hwy 1 Via The Woodbridge Center Mall and Ronson Road. Operates Weekday Rush Hours Only.

SIJ1R Frequencies:

Toward Ronson Rd: 5:00 AM - 9:00 AM

Toward Eltingville Transit Center: 2:00 PM - 7:00 PM

AM

NOON

PM

EVE

NITE

Weekdays:

10

-

12

-

-

[ViaWaterViaChurch]

I would change the official routing for the QM2/20/3 to go via 57th and turn left at Madison to head over to 59th.  I'm surprised they don't just let buses turn left at 57th onto 3rd like they do on 57th and Madison, but I guess traffic is worse down by 3rd avenue.  Usually the road from 6th to Madison moves better on 57th than 59th.  

I'm not sure if it would really save any time, but do you think sending 6th avenue buses down 2nd avenue to the tunnel after they pick up at 59th would save any time?  I haven't really taken the super express bus enough to know if it makes a significant difference (minus the 6th avenue and cross town stops obviously), but I know that Northern can get absolutely slammed around 5-7pm in Jackson Heights, it might be better to let B/Os go via the BQE and Astoria boulevard at those times.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

58 minutes ago, ViaWaterViaChurch said:

I would change the official routing for the QM2/20/3 to go via 57th and turn left at Madison to head over to 59th.  I'm surprised they don't just let buses turn left at 57th onto 3rd like they do on 57th and Madison, but I guess traffic is worse down by 3rd avenue.  Usually the road from 6th to Madison moves better on 57th than 59th.  

I'm not sure if it would really save any time, but do you think sending 6th avenue buses down 2nd avenue to the tunnel after they pick up at 59th would save any time?  I haven't really taken the super express bus enough to know if it makes a significant difference (minus the 6th avenue and cross town stops obviously), but I know that Northern can get absolutely slammed around 5-7pm in Jackson Heights, it might be better to let B/Os go via the BQE and Astoria boulevard at those times.

They changed the routing due to the whole no turns BS.