If you could create/change any bus line in NYC what would it be?

[misslo]

The Utica SBS IN Brooklyn, not getting enough people? I see those buses running on the B41 route now. Like you look up and B41 7344,7346,7351 etc  and Putting #7363, 7365 on the B12 route

[B35 via Church]

I didn't originally respond to that bit about zones because quite honestly, I don't see the point of creating them if nothing's appended to them (like a fare structure or something)....

Putting it bluntly, you have one of the zones (as an example) being from S. Ferry to 14th.... So what - What does it mean, or supposed to mean?

 

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

How exactly are you measuring redundancy? If you're saying its redundant just because the subway runs below it or near it, then that's not being redundant. It would be redundant if they had low ridership, but that's not the case.

Yeah, subways are generally used for longer distanced travel than the bus; fundamentally, they have different purposes....

I can't concur with the train of thought that says (for example) the Q56 is redundant to the (respective portion of the) .... Or the B25 to the (respective portion of the) , or the M102/103 to the (respective portion of the) Lex. av lines, etc. etc.....

The subway network & the bus network are on two very different playing fields (so to speak)..... 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I didn't originally respond to that bit about zones because quite honestly, I don't see the point of creating them if nothing's appended to them (like a fare structure or something)....

Putting it bluntly, you have one of the zones (as an example) being from S. Ferry to 14th.... So what - What does it mean, or supposed to mean?

 

Yeah, subways are generally used for longer distanced travel than the bus; fundamentally, they have different purposes....

I can't concur with the train of thought that says (for example) the Q56 is redundant to the (respective portion of the) .... Or the B25 to the (respective portion of the) , or the M102/103 to the (respective portion of the) Lex. av lines, etc. etc.....

The subway network & the bus network are on two very different playing fields (so to speak)..... 

And serving two different clientele. There are times when I prefer the M101, M102, M103 over the subway. For shopping at Whole Foods or on hot days I have no desire to use the subway, especially not for short distances. Something else a lot of people don't realize... The bus can be faster for certain trips when you factor in how much time it takes to walk down all the stairs, and actually reach the platform. With BusTime now I can make it to 3rd and have a bus right there. It's a bit more complicated with the subway depending on the station. Grand Central is a PITA to reach unless you're on Lexington. All of the concourses and stairs... It takes me a good 10 minutes to get to the platform and then wait for the train and then schlepp up those damn stairs. Depending on which bus I get that savings can go back to me, especially if my commute involves backtracking with the subway.

[jolusoji]

1 hour ago, jolusoji said:

One route that I would change is The Bx39. The route will have 2 variants One local and limited.Local buses follow the pre 2010. Clason Pt to Gun hill rd.

The limited operates full route.It be only local north of Gun hill rd.  The Limited runs on Weekdays only from 6AM-9PM.The local will operate the full route On nights,weekends and the addition of 24 hr service. It a rough idea I had some few years ago.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

33 minutes ago, jolusoji said:

The one thing I know from using the BxM11 along White Plains Road is that damn el destroys bus service. I have a young guy that I tutor just over the border from time to time and it takes FOREVER once you go past Pelham Parkway. They should've buried the subway up there because you're pretty much stuck for most of the trip with one lane. That brings me to my other point. How is the limited supposed to be faster than the local given that a good chunk of the Bx39 runs under the subway line? I've actually used the Bx39 a few times to reach the BxM8 and found it quick but that was south of Bruckner Blvd where not as many people ride.

[jolusoji]

12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The one thing I know from using the BxM11 along White Plains Road is that damn el destroys bus service. I have a young guy that I tutor just over the border from time to time and it takes FOREVER once you go last Pelham Parkway. They should've buried the subway up there because you're pretty much stuck up for most of the trip with one lane. That brings me to my other point. How is the limited supposed to be faster than the local given that a good chunk of the Bx39 runs under the subway line? I've actually used the Bx39 a few times to reach the BxM8 and found it quick but that was south of Bruckner Blvd where not as many people ride.

You make a  great point about Bus service North of Pelham Pkwy. Once rush hours hits, the service is terrible,Buses are bunched up and affects the 22,12,Sbs,60,61,and 62.

Suppose  to have some buses short turn at Pelham. On the south side of the route.There been weeks of bus not showing up around Parkchester during Pm rush hour.Most of the people coming from the 6 train. Some of them takes the 36 or limited.But they still have to transfer to 39 at story ave or Lafayette to continue their trip who lives in Soundview or Clason pt

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, jolusoji said:

You make a  great point about Bus service North of Pelham Pkwy. Once rush hours hits, the service is terrible,Buses are bunched up and affects the 22,12,Sbs,60,61,and 62.

Suppose  to have some buses short turn at Pelham. On the south side of the route.There been weeks of bus not showing up around Parkchester during Pm rush hour.Most of the people coming from the 6 train. Some of them takes the 36 or limited.But they still have to transfer to 39 at story ave or Lafayette to continue their trip who lives in Soundview or Clason pt

I also don't get the Bx39. I notice that even though the run above on White Plains Road, the Bx39 is heavily used from points north of Gun Hill Road. It's either all of the stairs, which is a ton at Gun Hill Road, the poor subway service or a combination of that and the Bx39 making more stops and putting people closer to their destination. I don't get the sense that the bus is that frequent though from what I've seen. The few times I've used it was just because I didn't feel like walking to the BxM8 and one was coming on BusTime, but I've never used it up by Gun Hill Road.

[jolusoji]

I know most of the riders comes from SBS 41 for north of Gun hill. The stairs at gun Hill are too much. plus the fact nearly all stations are not ADA accessible.The 39 is the  default choice for elderly riders  well.Bus service frequencies are aright at the moment.It seen improvement over the years.The only time i find the 2 train useful is  trying to catch the 39 bus when I missed it on bus time or catch a crosstown bus 26,12,or 28

[checkmatechamp13]

8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That's why I can't jump on to this.  I don't think we need to add more people onto the subway, even with signal and capacity improvements. In fact, I think we need to be adding more people onto the buses. The subway will always have its place in this city, whether buses exist or not. However, for so long, the MTA has been able to get away with chopping bus service and just letting bus service run poorly. At some point, even with capacity improvements, we'll be back to square one with trying to add more capacity. 

This is the same reason why all the transplants coming into New York don't use the buses like the former native residents used to. Nobody wants to get serious about bus service, and that's why you have continuous decreases in ridership and service, while only focusing on the subways. Creating zones and restricting bus routes to run within certain zones will without a doubt, destroy ridership faster than NICE bus. 

He also mentioned having SBS buses running longer distances along the major streets (presumably with well-enforced bus lanes and traffic signal priority so they function similar to subways, since the stops would be spaced much further apart than the local stops).

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Unfortunately I have to disagree. What we're getting is more people moving here that will do anything to not take a bus and will just jump in a cab. I see it regularly on the SBS lines that go crosstown. We need a bus network that compliments the subway. You also seem to forget how many neighorhoods don't have subway access and have disabled populations that would vehemently oppose such a set up. In fact when the has moved to eliminate bus service, elected officials have moved to threaten with lawsuits, citing the need for such buses. The X27 still exists in Bay Ridge for this very reason because it serves a part of Bay Ridge FAR from the subway with a large elderly population. It pains the to run the X27 and X28. They have tried numerous times to eliminate both lines over the years, and each time the communities have vehemently fought back and forced them to restore service. You can't run such a set up when so many subway stations STILL aren't accessible. 

If anything, we need to restructure more routes to run similar lengths where possible with fewer stops so that buses move but aren't curtailed to serve those who need them most.

The X27 & X28 are some of the busiest NYCT express routes. The MTA has tried (and temporarily succeeded) in eliminating weekend service, but rush hour service isn't going anywhere.

3 hours ago, jolusoji said:

One route that I would change is The Bx39. The route will have 2 variants One local and limited.Local buses follow the pre 2010. Clason Pt to Gun hill rd.

The limited operates full route.It be only local north of Gun hill rd.  The Limited runs on Weekdays only from 6AM-9PM.The local will operate the full route On nights,weekends and the addition of 24 hr service. It a rough idea I had some few years ago.

The Bx39 isn't frequent enough to sustain limited-stop service (except for some parts of the AM rush hour). The MTA uses existing local runs and converts them to limited-stop runs, so with the Bx39's current frequencies, you'd end up with a local and limited every 20 minutes each for most of the day. 

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I didn't originally respond to that bit about zones because quite honestly, I don't see the point of creating them if nothing's appended to them (like a fare structure or something)....

Putting it bluntly, you have one of the zones (as an example) being from S. Ferry to 14th.... So what - What does it mean, or supposed to mean?

Yeah, subways are generally used for longer distanced travel than the bus; fundamentally, they have different purposes....

I can't concur with the train of thought that says (for example) the Q56 is redundant to the (respective portion of the) .... Or the B25 to the (respective portion of the) , or the M102/103 to the (respective portion of the) Lex. av lines, etc. etc.....

The subway network & the bus network are on two very different playing fields (so to speak)..... 

7

He's basically saying to split the routes in a manner so that they focus more on better serving the short-distance riders. So riders traveling between the South Ferry area and the Greenwich Village/Chelsea area don't have to worry about a bus being delayed because of Midtown traffic. But the point of allowing a little bit of overlap between zones is so that buses can travel a little bit further if needed (e.g. The M9 traveling to the hospitals on the East Side as opposed to ending at 14th Street or 23rd Street). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

He also mentioned having SBS buses running longer distances along the major streets (presumably with well-enforced bus lanes and traffic signal priority so they function similar to subways, since the stops would be spaced much further apart than the local stops).

The X27 & X28 are some of the busiest NYCT express routes. The MTA has tried (and temporarily succeeded) in eliminating weekend service, but rush hour service isn't going anywhere.

The Bx39 isn't frequent enough to sustain limited-stop service (except for some parts of the AM rush hour). The MTA uses existing local runs and converts them to limited-stop runs, so with the Bx39's current frequencies, you'd end up with a local and limited every 20 minutes each for most of the day. 

He's basically saying to split the routes in a manner so that they focus more on better serving the short-distance riders. So riders traveling between the South Ferry area and the Greenwich Village/Chelsea area don't have to worry about a bus being delayed because of Midtown traffic. But the point of allowing a little bit of overlap between zones is so that buses can travel a little bit further if needed (e.g. The M9 traveling to the hospitals on the East Side as opposed to ending at 14th Street or 23rd Street). 

Heh please. You don't get it. They don't want those buses running. I'm well aware of weekday ridership and so are they which is why they set up that X27AX27B and X28A/X28B crap to deter ridership. When ridership starts to drop, then they can start cutting service. It's not an overnight process, but it can happen. If the demographics change (at some point they likely will, even in Bay Ridge) and fewer people start riding, just watch. They pulled the same BS with the X16. Hired drivers that didn't know the routes, missing and late buses.

Eventually people go to other routes and then the cuts begin, and eventually they said oh the X16 isn't needed anymore along with the X13  because of declining ridership.  We countered with the fact that they weren't running the bus on-time and we had long waits which is why ridership dropped. You can't ride buses that don't come.

Now neither route exists and won't exist in the new plan either in any capacity. Not a coincidence. Funny how Malliotakis yelled about the X18 coming back and I don't see anything close to it in the new Si Express Bus Plan. Did anyone mention it at the workshops?

The X27 and X28 were brought on when work on the subways was being done and their plan was to eliminate those routes entirely when that work was done including weekday service, and I'm sure they're pissed that they haven't been able to carry out their original plan because of community opposition. Their argument is clear, as they mentioned it when they cut the X28 on weekends. They want those people using the subway, regardless of how inaccessible or far the stations may be and they stated that with the  , officially citing its proximity to the X28. They are an agency that cannot be trusted. Not for a second. 

They would be perfectly fine cutting the X27, even with how poor service is and the lack of ADA accessibility. Just trust us. We'll run more  service and make more stations more ADA accessible.  Right...

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

He's basically saying to split the routes in a manner so that they focus more on better serving the short-distance riders. So riders traveling between the South Ferry area and the Greenwich Village/Chelsea area don't have to worry about a bus being delayed because of Midtown traffic. But the point of allowing a little bit of overlap between zones is so that buses can travel a little bit further if needed (e.g. The M9 traveling to the hospitals on the East Side as opposed to ending at 14th Street or 23rd Street). 

I get that he's aiming to shorten routes & I get the point of shortening a bus route.....

You create zones to implement a zone fare structure... You create zone{s} for the purpose of congestion pricing.... You don't need to create zones to decrease the footprint of bus routes in a bus network; it's unnecessary..... Furthermore, having routes panning past whatever zone for however many # of blocks, defeats the purpose of creating zones in the first place.....

[checkmatechamp13]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Heh please. You don't get it. They don't want those buses running. I'm well aware of weekday ridership and so are they which is why they set up that X27A/X27B and X28A/X28B crap to deter ridership. When ridership starts to drop, then they can start cutting service. It's not an overnight process, but it can happen. If the demographics change (at some point they likely will, even in Bay Ridge) and fewer people start riding, just watch. They pulled the same BS with the X16. Hired drivers that didn't know the routes, missing and late buses.

Eventually people go to other routes and then the cuts begin, and eventually they said oh the X16 isn't needed anymore along with the X13  because of declining ridership.  We countered with the fact that they weren't running the bus on-time and we had long waits which is why ridership dropped. You can't ride buses that don't come.

Now neither route exists and won't exist in the new plan either in any capacity. Not a coincidence. Funny how Malliotakis yelled about the X18 coming back and I don't see anything close to it in the new Si Express Bus Plan. Did anyone mention it at the workshops?

The X27 and X28 were brought on when work on the subways was being done and their plan was to eliminate those routes entirely when that work was done including weekday service, and I'm sure they're pissed that they haven't been able to carry out their original plan because of community opposition. Their argument is clear, as they mentioned it when they cut the X28 on weekends. They want those people using the subway, regardless of how inaccessible or far the stations may be and they stated that with the  , officially citing its proximity to the X28. They are an agency that cannot be trusted. Not for a second. 

They would be perfectly fine cutting the X27, even with how poor service is and the lack of ADA accessibility. Just trust us. We'll run more  service and make more stations more ADA accessible.  Right...

The X27B & X28B didn't affect Downtown service, which still comprises a huge portion of X27/28 ridership. Even for Midtown riders, it's not like they can get rid of all that ridership. That's like saying the X7/9/10B have low ridership.

And the X13 exists in the new plan. Port Richmond-Downtown via Clove Road is pretty much the old X13. (Whether it's the Downtown Loop or straight up Water Street, the general concept is the same).  The X18, yeah some stupid, arrogant lady talked about it, and yelled at people who wanted to help her get it back. Other than that, I don't recall anybody bringing it up (even some guy who lived right off the old X18 route in Park Hill was more focused on the X1 & X10).

The X27 & X28 were created in the early 1970s, and weren't related to any work on the subways. The weekend service was created in the early 2000s, and was related to the fact that Coney Island had that reconstruction project going on (the  were cut back from Coney Island, and the  ran all-local on the weekends). 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

He also mentioned having SBS buses running longer distances along the major streets (presumably with well-enforced bus lanes and traffic signal priority so they function similar to subways, since the stops would be spaced much further apart than the local stops).

Well then add bus lanes to the existing on the major streets and call it a day. There's no need for SBS service, when the locals can handle it if they were more reliable.

[checkmatechamp13]

3 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Well then add bus lanes to the existing on the major streets and call it a day. There's no need for SBS service, when the locals can handle it if they were more reliable.

Two major things that slow down buses service are traffic and having a lot of stops. Installing bus lanes addresses the traffic issue, but doesn't do anything about the closely-spaced stops. And if you space them further apart, you screw over the seniors & disabled who need them close together. With a separate SBS route, you help both the people trying to move quickly, and the people who need the stops closer together. 

Have you ever seen tons and tons of people taking the old M6, or the current M20 all the way from South Ferry to the 57th Street area?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

49 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The X27B & X28B didn't affect Downtown service, which still comprises a huge portion of X27/28 ridership. Even for Midtown riders, it's not like they can get rid of all that ridership. That's like saying the X7/9/10B have low ridership.

And the X13 exists in the new plan. Port Richmond-Downtown via Clove Road is pretty much the old X13. (Whether it's the Downtown Loop or straight up Water Street, the general concept is the same).  The X18, yeah some stupid, arrogant lady talked about it, and yelled at people who wanted to help her get it back. Other than that, I don't recall anybody bringing it up (even some guy who lived right off the old X18 route in Park Hill was more focused on the X1 & X10).

The X27 & X28 were created in the early 1970s, and weren't related to any work on the subways. The weekend service was created in the early 2000s, and was related to the fact that Coney Island had that reconstruction project going on (the  were cut back from Coney Island, and the  ran all-local on the weekends). 

I could've sworn it didn't. I raised the issue previously that I only saw a Midtown variant and no Downtown variant. Did that change recently? As for the X27/X28, even if it was the weekend service, my point still stands. They axed weekend service, then started messing with weekday service. There was no reason to even change the routes. None. They knew that the set up that they had would deter ridership over time and allow them to start chopping away at service.  They have eliminated plenty of express bus routes that just had weekday service, so that doesn't make the X27/X28 exempt from that.

[Deucey]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I get that he's aiming to shorten routes & I get the point of shortening a bus route.....

You create zones to implement a zone fare structure... You create zone{s} for the purpose of congestion pricing.... You don't need to create zones to decrease the footprint of bus routes in a bus network; it's unnecessary..... Furthermore, having routes panning past whatever zone for however many # of blocks, defeats the purpose of creating zones in the first place.....

I feel like the word "zone" is where your main objection is. Perhaps I should've said sector?

 

[B35 via Church]

Just now, Deucey said:

I feel like the word "zone" is where your main objection is. Perhaps I should've said sector?

Wouldn't have made a difference....

My objection to the whole thing correlates with BM5's train of thought..... It's not your end goal I take issue with, it's how you'd go about it; shortening routes by restricting them to certain confines......

The fact that you also mentioned that more subway capacity is needed for your suggestion to work, I find to be troubling.....

 

[Deucey]

4 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

My objection to the whole thing correlates with BM5's train of thought..... It's not your end goal I take issue with, it's how you'd go about it; shortening routes by restricting them to certain confines

That's to counter the Uber effect - a lot of people are picking cabs over buses because of how slow they are and how they don't cover the last mile, don't take the fastest or most direct route to get next to final destinations, or are tardy/bunched because of situations downroute (let there be a traffic jam a mile away and now there's at least two back-to-back and 10-15 minutes late). Shorter routes can mitigate that to a large degree.

 

11 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The fact that you also mentioned that more subway capacity is needed for your suggestion to work, I find to be troubling.....

I also said ADA needed to be implemented in full. It wouldn't be right to make seniors in the LES transfer three times (four buses) to visit Lenox Hill Hospital because  at 77th St doesn't have elevators, or because overcrowding at USQ keeps wheelchairs from getting on.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, Deucey said:

That's to counter the Uber effect - a lot of people are picking cabs over buses because of how slow they are and how they don't cover the last mile, don't take the fastest or most direct route to get next to final destinations, or are tardy/bunched because of situations downroute (let there be a traffic jam a mile away and now there's at least two back-to-back and 10-15 minutes late). Shorter routes can mitigate that to a large degree.

 

I also said ADA needed to be implemented in full. It wouldn't be right to make seniors in the LES transfer three times (four buses) to visit Lenox Hill Hospital because  at 77th St doesn't have elevators, or because overcrowding at USQ keeps wheelchairs from getting on.

The problem is that the  going back to 2010 essentially started forcing people on to other modes of transportation, so they've got themselves to blame. They run piss poor service overnight or none at all in some cases where they've eliminated overnight service.  I talked about the B31 and how it should retain overnight service and B/O on here had the nerve to say it should be cut, so that means not only does he think those people should take Ubers or drive, but he also has no problem with his depot losing runs, which is essentially what happens.  All of this has led to people saying you're going to suggest that we don't use buses? Well fine, we won't.  I mean really you can't blame them.  Even in my neighborhood, bus service overnight on the Bx10 is abysmal. So you get the  train then get up to 231st and find out that the next bus is due in an hour.  Absurd.  All overnight routes that run should run 20 - 30 minute intervals.  That's 2 - 3 buses per hour each direction. If the  can't afford that then don't bother. I'm serious.  They know very well that the longer people have to wait, the less likely they are to use the service, so these workshops are going to be very interesting.

I've been writing my elected officials and talking to them about service here and I will have a lot to say at these meetings, as I'm sure many of my neighbors will too. They claim they want to turn things around but then outright deny neighborhoods of more service when there's a legitimate need, so in my mind it's like you can't run more subway service, and you won't run more bus service, so there's no other choice but to drive or use Uber.

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Wouldn't have made a difference....

My objection to the whole thing correlates with BM5's train of thought..... It's not your end goal I take issue with, it's how you'd go about it; shortening routes by restricting them to certain confines......

The fact that you also mentioned that more subway capacity is needed for your suggestion to work, I find to be troubling.....

 

Agreed... And this subway capacity... Where is it coming from when some lines basically have none during rush hour? We're looking at YEARS in some cases before we get more capacity on some lines. Buses have to help out in some capacity. There's no way around it.

[Deucey]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They claim they want to turn things around but then outright deny neighborhoods of more service when there's a legitimate need, so in my mind it's like you can't run more subway service, and you won't run more bus service, so there's no other choice but to drive or use Uber.

I agree. I just decided to move from Shaolin to either the Concourse or east of Throop Av in 2019 instead of getting a car just because of bus unreliability on SI.

But I think it important to rethink how buses should be run since you now have car serviced doing what full island-length buses are supposed to be doing - getting people where they want to go efficiently. (Granted, I'm sure a lot of the congestion making buses late is due to more gypsy cabs wandering looking for fares or getting that Uber hail. Irony.) Other cities are looking at their networks and retooling them to cater to the feedback that they'd rather have buses focus on getting them to activity centers or across their neighborhood faster than having to go out the way to get there.

(An example: where I grew up in Sacramento, I was literally two miles from a light rail station, but I'd have to take two buses to get to it (45 minutes and two fares including paying for the train) or take the 23 bus by my house an hour to another station 14 miles away.)

NY has the best setup for this - three north-south subway trunks with express-local service on most of the island, so if it's run correctly,  can mitigate losses to ride hailing to/fro Midtown, and make buses get people across town east-west slower than Uber but more economically. And running SBS's like M15 from bottom to middle or top of the island as a real almost-BRT could keep the bulk of the north-south routing people want but don't use while possibly getting folks to use it.

But that's just my idea. Doesn't mean it's the best nor the only, but it's gotta be acknowledged by  that because of their lack of concern for riders, they led the paradigm to change, and now they have to rethink on whether 90 minute long routes with stops every other block is the best way forward.

[Future ENY OP]

I always wondered to why no Mount Vernon East or Mount Vernon West express bus service to/from Manhattan? (At least for rush hours) Doesn't necessary need to be all day bus service or extend existing service on the BXM3 (Mount Vernon West), BXM11 (Mount Vernon East)?

[checkmatechamp13]

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I could've sworn it didn't. I raised the issue previously that I only saw a Midtown variant and no Downtown variant. Did that change recently? As for the X27/X28, even if it was the weekend service, my point still stands. They axed weekend service, then started messing with weekday service. There was no reason to even change the routes. None. They knew that the set up that they had would deter ridership over time and allow them to start chopping away at service.  They have eliminated plenty of express bus routes that just had weekday service, so that doesn't make the X27/X28 exempt from that.

You read it incorrectly. The proposed plan was always for the Clove Road express bus to be a Downtown-only route (whether you want to call it X13, X14, or SIM35). At first, they had it going to Worth Street with all the other Downtown-only routes, and then they had it going up Water Street to Frankfort Street like the current X8 (well, the AM routing anyway). For Midtown service, they want people to use the SIM3 or SIM30 (basically, the current X30/42). Not saying I agree or disagree, but that was always the plan.

In any case, the X27/28 still had off-peak service, and they're not exactly known for being generous with that, especially on NYCT routes. 

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The problem is that the  going back to 2010 essentially started forcing people on to other modes of transportation, so they've got themselves to blame. They run piss poor service overnight or none at all in some cases where they've eliminated overnight service.  I talked about the B31 and how it should retain overnight service and B/O on here had the nerve to say it should be cut, so that means not only does he think those people should take Ubers or drive, but he also has no problem with his depot losing runs, which is essentially what happens.  All of this has led to people saying you're going to suggest that we don't use buses? Well fine, we won't.  I mean really you can't blame them.  Even in my neighborhood, bus service overnight on the Bx10 is abysmal. So you get the  train then get up to 231st and find out that the next bus is due in an hour.  Absurd.  All overnight routes that run should run 20 - 30 minute intervals.  That's 2 - 3 buses per hour each direction. If the  can't afford that then don't bother. I'm serious.  They know very well that the longer people have to wait, the less likely they are to use the service, so these workshops are going to be very interesting.

I've been writing my elected officials and talking to them about service here and I will have a lot to say at these meetings, as I'm sure many of my neighbors will too. They claim they want to turn things around but then outright deny neighborhoods of more service when there's a legitimate need, so in my mind it's like you can't run more subway service, and you won't run more bus service, so there's no other choice but to drive or use Uber.

Agreed... And this subway capacity... Where is it coming from when some lines basically have none during rush hour? We're looking at YEARS in some cases before we get more capacity on some lines. Buses have to help out in some capacity. There's no way around it.

The Bx10 runs every 40 minutes overnight. A few years ago, they changed it from 60-65 minute headways with one bus to 40 minute headways with 2 buses.

23 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I always wondered to why no Mount Vernon East or Mount Vernon West express bus service to/from Manhattan? (At least for rush hours) Doesn't necessary need to be all day bus service or extend existing service on the BXM3 (Mount Vernon West), BXM11 (Mount Vernon East)?

Presumably, they want them to take Metro-North.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

You read it incorrectly. The proposed plan was always for the Clove Road express bus to be a Downtown-only route (whether you want to call it X13, X14, or SIM35). At first, they had it going to Worth Street with all the other Downtown-only routes, and then they had it going up Water Street to Frankfort Street like the current X8 (well, the AM routing anyway). For Midtown service, they want people to use the SIM3 or SIM30 (basically, the current X30/42). Not saying I agree or disagree, but that was always the plan.

In any case, the X27/28 still had off-peak service, and they're not exactly known for being generous with that, especially on NYCT routes. 

The Bx10 runs every 40 minutes overnight. A few years ago, they changed it from 60-65 minute headways with one bus to 40 minute headways with 2 buses.

Presumably, they want them to take Metro-North.

Yeah I'm aware of the Bx10 set up now but even at 40 minutes people still don't wait. People will take a cab. 40 minutes is a long wait especially late at night around 231st. Not somewhere a lot of people want to wait.

As for the SI express bus, I forgot about that. They have better run sufficient Midtown service then. Historically the X30 has its moments and the X14 was a great back-up.

37 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I always wondered to why no Mount Vernon East or Mount Vernon West express bus service to/from Manhattan? (At least for rush hours) Doesn't necessary need to be all day bus service or extend existing service on the BXM3 (Mount Vernon West), BXM11 (Mount Vernon East)?

Mount Vernon East can be done with the BxM11. I've done it myself for tutoring sessions and in fact a lot of people from Mount Vernon come down and use the BxM11, so there's no need to send it across the border. Besides getting from 241st to Gun Hill Road is the worst part of the route because of the overhead subway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

I agree. I just decided to move from Shaolin to either the Concourse or east of Throop Av in 2019 instead of getting a car just because of bus unreliability on SI.

But I think it important to rethink how buses should be run since you now have car serviced doing what full island-length buses are supposed to be doing - getting people where they want to go efficiently. (Granted, I'm sure a lot of the congestion making buses late is due to more gypsy cabs wandering looking for fares or getting that Uber hail. Irony.) Other cities are looking at their networks and retooling them to cater to the feedback that they'd rather have buses focus on getting them to activity centers or across their neighborhood faster than having to go out the way to get there.

(An example: where I grew up in Sacramento, I was literally two miles from a light rail station, but I'd have to take two buses to get to it (45 minutes and two fares including paying for the train) or take the 23 bus by my house an hour to another station 14 miles away.)

NY has the best setup for this - three north-south subway trunks with express-local service on most of the island, so if it's run correctly,  can mitigate losses to ride hailing to/fro Midtown, and make buses get people across town east-west slower than Uber but more economically. And running SBS's like M15 from bottom to middle or top of the island as a real almost-BRT could keep the bulk of the north-south routing people want but don't use while possibly getting folks to use it.

But that's just my idea. Doesn't mean it's the best nor the only, but it's gotta be acknowledged by  that because of their lack of concern for riders, they led the paradigm to change, and now they have to rethink on whether 90 minute long routes with stops every other block is the best way forward.

I don't blame you. I grabbled with the same thing after they cut express bus service in my area. I didn't feel like getting a car, but was also tired of spending roughly $300 a month in car service. Basically I allotted myself $20.00-40.00 on Saturday and Sunday to reach the express bus (X1, X10 or X17) and monies late night when I didn't feel like transferring to the local bus (the express buses stopped running early by me). With my set up now I rarely have to spend money in car service and have decent express bus service late nights that puts me minutes from my apartment, which is exactly what I wanted. No worrying about parking the car, no garage or any of that aggravation. I also would use car service from Shop Rite, so more money in my pocket. Sure I pay more in rent now but it's worth it, and I can cut my transportation expenses when I want.

The Concourse has decent transportation options though not great, but you have Metro-North and the BxM4 outside of the subways. Up and coming area especially below 165th, but expensive for what it is. $1500-1700 for a one bedroom with quality of life issues... You are however close to Manhattan. Bed-Stuy is even more expensive though and l don't want to pay over $2,000 a month for as long as I'm renting. Having an extra $400 a month gives you more options. You'd better hurry up and get in. Coffees at no less than $5.00-6.00 a pop there. Worse than Manhattan. Then again my neighborhood is just as bad with that. lol In any event I've always preferred living further out. More bang for the buck and better quality of life.

A client of mine who lives in Battery Park City always talks about my area. Her son plays tennis near me and she is fond of the area. She told me today that she has a friend that lives close to me in the estate area on Fieldston Road. She's like the parking is great. I said yeah, it's a private area that's why. lol

I am curious what they're going to do with local bus service on Staten Island. I was always frustrated that it's too Ferry centric, which makes intraborough trips really complicated, long and annoying.

[Deucey]

24 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't blame you. I grabbled with the same thing after they cut express bus service in my area. I didn't feel like getting a car, but was also tired of spending roughly $300 a month in car service. Basically I allotted myself $20.00-40.00 on Saturday and Sunday to reach the express bus (X1, X10 or X17) and monies late night when I didn't feel like transferring to the local bus (the express buses stopped running early by me). With my set up now I rarely have to spend money in car service and have decent express bus service late nights that puts me minutes from my apartment, which is exactly what I wanted. No worrying about parking the car, no garage or any of that aggravation. I also would use car service from Shop Rite, so more money in my pocket. Sure I pay more in rent now but it's worth it, and I can cut my transportation expenses when I want.

The Concourse has decent transportation options though not great, but you have Metro-North and the BxM4 outside of the subways. Up and coming area especially below 165th, but expensive for what it is. $1500-1700 for a one bedroom with quality of life issues... You are however close to Manhattan. Bed-Stuy is even more expensive though and l don't want to pay over $2,000 a month for as long as I'm renting. Having an extra $400 a month gives you more options. You'd better hurry up and get in. Coffees at no less than $5.00-6.00 a pop there. Worse than Manhattan. Then again my neighborhood is just as bad with that. lol In any event I've always preferred living further out. More bang for the buck and better quality of life...

...I am curious what they're going to do with local bus service on Staten Island. I was always frustrated that it's too Ferry centric, which makes intraborough trips really complicated, long and annoying.

5 years in NY next month, and spending 3 years next to Richmond Houses I have no issues moving next to the hood if it saves me $600 off median rent in Bed-Stuy or East NY.

I'm just so sick of bus service on the island to begin with, let alone how so many buses make it to the ferry right before the doors close (my 650am S52 let's us off on Ramp D, so I can just run to it and slide in before they close, but no one should have to do that). It's pathetic how bad the service actually is - takes me 1:10 from the bus stop to the office, but jumps :15-:20 if the 52 arrives at 6:59.

Everything's always late; everything's slow, and that fear of running hot and stupid scheduling is the root cause. I got ideas how to do this better, but at this point I just wanna do the last year on this lease and move and know that barring a meltdown of the trains at most I'll be 5 minutes late.