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Lil 57

If you could create/change any bus line in NYC what would it be?

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23 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I am curious what they're going to do with local bus service on Staten Island. I was always frustrated that it's too Ferry centric, which makes intraborough trips really complicated, long and annoying.

I feel like if you were to redesign the bus network today, you'd probably focus on a grid where from any point it's relatively easy to get to the SI Mall, CSI, St. George, Bay Ridge, or Bayonne. For example, a glaring omission to me at least is a bus route on Richmond Hill Road connecting the SI Mall directly with the central part of the Hylan corridor. But I'm not a local, so maybe such a route isn't necessary.

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18 minutes ago, Deucey said:

5 years in NY next month, and spending 3 years next to Richmond Houses I have no issues moving next to the hood if it saves me $600 off median rent in Bed-Stuy or East NY.

I'm just so sick of bus service on the island to begin with, let alone how so many buses make it to the ferry right before the doors close (my 650am S52 let's us off on Ramp D, so I can just run to it and slide in before they close, but no one should have to do that). It's pathetic how bad the service actually is - takes me 1:10 from the bus stop to the office, but jumps :15-:20 if the 52 arrives at 6:59.

Everything's always late; everything's slow, and that fear of running hot and stupid scheduling is the root cause. I got ideas how to do this better, but at this point I just wanna do the last year on this lease and move and know that barring a meltdown of the trains at most I'll be 5 minutes late.

I hear you. That commute out there gets old fast too and I don't miss it. I find myself much happier despite late and missing buses, but my mornings when things work fine, I can stop at Whole Foods or one of my coffee shops and just roll into the office relaxed. 

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19 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I feel like if you were to redesign the bus network today, you'd probably focus on a grid where from any point it's relatively easy to get to the SI Mall, CSI, St. George, Bay Ridge, or Bayonne. For example, a glaring omission to me at least is a bus route on Richmond Hill Road connecting the SI Mall directly with the central part of the Hylan corridor. But I'm not a local, so maybe such a route isn't necessary.

Well that's the other thing. Staten Island doesn't have a true street grid. Lots of streets are narrow and weren't laid out for today's traffic. They are so car centric out there that I really don't see how things can improve even with all of this bus restructuring, and if the local buses are laid out anything like the express buses are being done, good luck. Staten Island is one of the few places where I regularly saw people drive to the local bus. lol

  • LMAO! 1

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16 hours ago, Deucey said:

That's to counter the Uber effect - a lot of people are picking cabs over buses because of how slow they are and how they don't cover the last mile, don't take the fastest or most direct route to get next to final destinations, or are tardy/bunched because of situations downroute (let there be a traffic jam a mile away and now there's at least two back-to-back and 10-15 minutes late). Shorter routes can mitigate that to a large degree.

I also said ADA needed to be implemented in full. It wouldn't be right to make seniors in the LES transfer three times (four buses) to visit Lenox Hill Hospital because  at 77th St doesn't have elevators, or because overcrowding at USQ keeps wheelchairs from getting on.

....Which is entirely the MTA's fault.... Their goal has long been to cram as many people onto the subway as possible; buses be damned.... This is the culture they've bred for decades & now the price is being paid for that, as you have people that are abandoning the subways right along with the buses in the numbers that they are.....

Quite frankly, I think your overall suggestion would end up further facilitating the very issue you're aiming to mitigate - and that very scenario you give at the end there, is an example of that..... Nobody's going to want to do all that transferring..... Routes shouldn't be going from E. Village to Ft. George (M101) & from Penn to The Cloisters (M4) (especially in the manner that they do) - but at the same time, routes along varying corridors shouldn't be broken up by a factor of 3 either (which was one of BM5's points)..... North-south routes like the M10 & the M11 are sufficient in the network & shouldn't be broken up at all.... I say that to say, routes should be shortened within reason... Your suggestion on the surface, to me, seems a little too ambitious.....

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Agreed... And this (extra) subway capacity... Where is it coming from when some lines basically have none during rush hour? We're looking at YEARS in some cases before we get more capacity on some lines. Buses have to help out in some capacity. There's no way around it.

This is my general take on it & the MTA continues to be stubborn in these matters....

I'm going to sound like BrooklynBus here, but it's as if they want more people taking all these cab services, so that they won't have to provide as much overall bus service as they currently are, in the long-run....

10 hours ago, Deucey said:

But I think it important to rethink how buses should be run since you now have car serviced doing what full island-length buses are supposed to be doing - getting people where they want to go efficiently. (Granted, I'm sure a lot of the congestion making buses late is due to more gypsy cabs wandering looking for fares or getting that Uber hail. Irony.) Other cities are looking at their networks and retooling them to cater to the feedback that they'd rather have buses focus on getting them to activity centers or across their neighborhood faster than having to go out the way to get there.....

 

....But that's just my idea. Doesn't mean it's the best nor the only, but it's gotta be acknowledged by (MTA) that because of their lack of concern for riders, they led the paradigm to change, and now they have to rethink on whether 90 minute long routes with stops every other block is the best way forward.

A reason I'm entertaining your suggestion is because it is something new & different..... It's no secret to any NY-er that this agency is highly reluctant to significant change.

10 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I always wondered to why no Mount Vernon East or Mount Vernon West express bus service to/from Manhattan? (At least for rush hours) Doesn't necessary need to be all day bus service or extend existing service on the BXM3 (Mount Vernon West), BXM11 (Mount Vernon East)?

This is a Manhattan bound (2) train... next stop, nereeed av - two hundred, thirty eighth st... Stand clear of the closing doors pleez....

.....bing... boom :lol:

Edited by B35 via Church
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23 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

This is a Manhattan bound (2) train... next stop, nereeed av - two hundred, thirty eighth st... Stand clear of the closing doors pleez....

.....bing... boom :lol:

Hahahahahahahahahaha. It was only just a suggestion lol 😆 

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6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite frankly, I think your overall suggestion would end up further facilitating the very issue you're aiming to mitigate - and that very scenario you give at the end there, is an example of that..... Nobody's going to want to do all that transferring..... Routes shouldn't be going from E. Village to Ft. George (M101) & from Penn to The Cloisters (M4) (especially in the manner that they do) - but at the same time, routes along varying corridors shouldn't be broken up by a factor of 3 either (which was one of BM5's points)..... North-south routes like the M10 & the M11 are sufficient in the network & shouldn't be broken up at all.... I say that to say, routes should be shortened within reason... Your suggestion on the surface, to me, seems a little too ambitious.....

But that's where the SBS part comes into play.

If SBS is supposed to be BRT, running routes like that as above-ground subway locals - even if mirroring subway stops along the avenues makes that trans-Manhattan travel faster and more efficient with all-door boarding, bus lanes and tap fare payment. It's a collector-distributor system with the local bus "shuttles" doing the intermediate stops, but it's really not much different than taking an express train then switching to a local.

But you are right - it is ambitious, and would require making surface and subway coordinate operations vs being independent fiefdoms.

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7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

A reason I'm entertaining your suggestion is because it is something new & different..... It's no secret to any NY-er that this agency is highly reluctant to significant change.

That's mainly the reason I pitched it - I remember stories my father and Bronx family used to tell me of (NYCT) just doing stuff without actually thinking it through or making  changes that barely move the needle on the status quo because it'd require disrupting the routine.

The other reason is after years of dealing with Sacramento RT and AC Transit (Oakland) and the old LA RTD, the one time I ride the bus in LA (now Metro), I'm on a 740 MetroRapid when it ran to Downtown LA (instead of the local 40), and a trip I remember as a kid taking an hour took 42 minutes to Manchester Ave in Inglewood - because the MetroRapid ran like a compromise between an express bus and a streetcar. Since Manhattan is laid out like LA - a grid with roads that run for tens of miles on the north-south grid, it isn't like it couldn't work here - versus the "run the local bus stopping every other block and let it take 2 hours to go from South Ferry to 168th St (the old M5) when it could be done faster with lesser bunching.

But it's one idea out of a plethora that could make the bus system competitive versus the time savings a ride share offers.

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23 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

I feel like if you were to redesign the bus network today, you'd probably focus on a grid where from any point it's relatively easy to get to the SI Mall, CSI, St. George, Bay Ridge, or Bayonne. For example, a glaring omission to me at least is a bus route on Richmond Hill Road connecting the SI Mall directly with the central part of the Hylan corridor. But I'm not a local, so maybe such a route isn't necessary.

 

Nah, that route isn't necessary. The S79 is quick and frequent, and for those along Richmond Road, they can take the S74/84 to the ETC and catch a mall-bound bus from there. The thing is that Richmond Hill Road runs through the golf course, and the S74 barely gets any riders in Richmondtown (the S84 doesn't even make any stops in that area, though the whole local/limited setup on that route is a separate issue). The part of Richmond Hill Road west of Forest Hill Road could use some coverage, but that can be done rather easily (either extend the S55/56 to CSI, or run the S54 via the SI Mall instead of Egbertville, or both). 

What I have seen brought up with regards to crosstown service is a route running through the Greenbelt (Rockland/Travis Avenue corridor) from say, New Dorp to the Teleport. But the issue is anything running through the Greenbelt (including the present-day S54/57) is going to have a lot of dead mileage (but at the same time, Rockland is subject to its own traffic backups, so non-stop might not necessarily mean it'll be quicker than taking a longer route via wider roads). It's difficult to get between those points, but I personally think making more use out of the S93 for cross-island travel would be a better option. 

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6 hours ago, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

send the BxM2 down the West Side Highway. It'll make that route a lot quicker

Been there done that. Makes no sense. Too much ridership comes from Mount Sinai doctors and RNs and the 5th/Madison Avenue crowd. It used to run strictly on the Upper West Side Northbound and then came over to pick up at Mount Sinai, it didn't work out, which is why it runs east to the Upper East Side. It gives riders an alternative to the BxM1 so they don't have to walk all the way to 3rd, not to mention getting the tour of Inwood if they don't skip it.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Out of FB depot, I would love to change Both the B49 and B44 local service route by rerouting.

B49: After Foster and Flatbush Avenue, To make that left on Flatbush Ave , and slight right into Bedford Avenue. Continue service all the way till Fulton Street in both direction bound to keep it on Bedford. 

B49: On Ocean Ave, To continue service all the way to Emmons Avenue and make a right turn instead of the current route direction when it reach down ocean avenue. Returning back should be the same by making a left turn from Emmons Avenue to Ocean Avenue. 

 

B44:  N/B direction - Makes no sense to throw the local away from the SBS44+. The B44 local should run on Rogers instead of New York Avenue. Have the local turn left on Flatbush Avenue and make the next stop correspond with the B41 stop located on the corner of Glenwood and Flatbush which would still serve the purpose of the Nostrand Avenue and Glenwood Stop. The Flatbush and Nostrand Triangle light is too short, so I would increase the light time on the N/B direction more and have the S/B light direction delayed just to give the buses enough time to complete that left turn without causing buses being delayed from making that left turn.

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I would have a bus line that goes from Kings Plaza to Gateway Center via the Belt Parkway connecting at each exit to the local bus routes like B42, etc., it could be extended east to JFK and West to Coney Island or Bay Ridge, connecting to the (Q)(B)(F)(D)(R) (A) etc.

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19 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I would have a bus line that goes from Kings Plaza to Gateway Center via the Belt Parkway connecting at each exit to the local bus routes like B42, etc., it could be extended east to JFK and West to Coney Island or Bay Ridge, connecting to the (Q)(B)(F)(D)(R) (A) etc.

How would that Belt pkwy work? From Exit 9 To 13 is commercial vehicle restricted due to weight limits.?  So far that line would sound like an Express route or would it be local?

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21 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I would have a bus line that goes from Kings Plaza to Gateway Center via the Belt Parkway connecting at each exit to the local bus routes like B42, etc., it could be extended east to JFK and West to Coney Island or Bay Ridge, connecting to the (Q)(B)(F)(D)(R) (A) etc.

Point to point routes don't have much of a place in this city.....

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1 hour ago, DueceDrives said:

How would that Belt pkwy work? From Exit 9 To 13 is commercial vehicle restricted due to weight limits.?  So far that line would sound like an Express route or would it be local?

It would be like a limited/SBS route . For example, you can get from Emmons Ave/Knapp Street to Gateway Center by car in 10 mins along the Belt Parkway, but because of the layout of South East Brooklyn, it takes 90 mins if you go by Bus. (This is one of the advantages to services such as UBER and LYFT)

This route wold use the Belt Parkway from Knapp Street to Gateway, using each exit to make stops and connections. But it can use Emmons Ave/Cropsey/86th Street (etc) to get to Bay Ridge   (R) , if not the Belt Parkway between Exit 2 and 5/6.

I don't think the weight limits apply anymore since they built new bridges from exit 9 to 14.

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1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

Need more turn over?

I can't see much of anyone waiting for a bus going to either Kings Plaza or Gateway Mall that would utilize the Belt in that manner.....

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51 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I can't see much of anyone waiting for a bus going to either Kings Plaza or Gateway Mall that would utilize the Belt in that manner.....

It's also to provide faster east - west travel

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On 6/5/2018 at 2:56 PM, N6 Limited said:

I would have a bus line that goes from Kings Plaza to Gateway Center via the Belt Parkway connecting at each exit to the local bus routes like B42, etc., it could be extended east to JFK and West to Coney Island or Bay Ridge, connecting to the (Q)(B)(F)(D)(R) (A) etc.

Where's the market for this said route? Unless there's a separate barrier for buses only and plus increased enforcement on bus lanes. I don't see this flying at all.

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On 6/5/2018 at 8:25 AM, DueceDrives said:

Out of FB depot, I would love to change Both the B49 and B44 local service route by rerouting.

B49: After Foster and Flatbush Avenue, To make that left on Flatbush Ave , and slight right into Bedford Avenue. Continue service all the way till Fulton Street in both direction bound to keep it on Bedford. 

B49: On Ocean Ave, To continue service all the way to Emmons Avenue and make a right turn instead of the current route direction when it reach down ocean avenue. Returning back should be the same by making a left turn from Emmons Avenue to Ocean Avenue. 

B44:  N/B direction - Makes no sense to throw the local away from the SBS44+. The B44 local should run on Rogers instead of New York Avenue. Have the local turn left on Flatbush Avenue and make the next stop correspond with the B41 stop located on the corner of Glenwood and Flatbush which would still serve the purpose of the Nostrand Avenue and Glenwood Stop. The Flatbush and Nostrand Triangle light is too short, so I would increase the light time on the N/B direction more and have the S/B light direction delayed just to give the buses enough time to complete that left turn without causing buses being delayed from making that left turn.

3

So what covers NY Avenue? The gap in northbound service in the East Flatbush area would widen from NY Avenue-Utica Avenue to Rogers Avenue-Utica Avenue.

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I think there should be late night service along the Richmond Ave corridor.

Maybe have the S59 run on 30-60 minute headways at night. (Depending on the ridership)

Edited by Lil 57

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6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So what covers NY Avenue? The gap in northbound service in the East Flatbush area would widen from NY Avenue-Utica Avenue to Rogers Avenue-Utica Avenue.

NY Ave is a waste..... the only reason I believe the local run through there its because of the B49 running on Rogers. If the 49 was running on Bedford, Im sure the 44 local would have been running on Rogers a long with the 44+

 

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On 6/7/2018 at 1:23 AM, DueceDrives said:

NY Ave is a waste..... the only reason I believe the local run through there its because of the B49 running on Rogers. If the 49 was running on Bedford, Im sure the 44 local would have been running on Rogers a long with the 44+

2

I mean, having buses on Flatbush, Bedford, and Rogers/Nostrand, but then nothing until Utica? Sounds a bit imbalanced to me.

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