Plans move forward for SAS Phase II

[Lawrence St]

http://pix11.com/2018/05/01/plans-move-ahead-for-second-avenue-subway-phase-two-in-harlem/

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If and when this project happens, let's see what people on here say about the East Harlem residents, since they said UES residents complained too much. Not only that but this definitely spur more gentrification up there.  

[Around the Horn]

This should have been done two years ago when phase 1 finished...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

This should have been done two years ago when phase 1 finished...

With what money??

[N6 Limited]

Rents are going to be movin' on up.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, N6 Limited said:

Rents are going to be movin' on up.

They already are... Lots of new buildings coming online with studios ABOVE $2500 a month. When SAS is done, the prices will be competing right along with the UES.  The difference in East Harlem now is you get more space and amenities in the building for that $2500 versus $2500 on the UES.  I could never see myself living in that area permanently though.  Still needs to be further gentrified.

[LGA Link N Train]

Question, if this thread is portraning to the Second Avenue subway, then why make an entirely separate thread? 

Anyways, good to hear that Phase 2 is Making progress 

[kosciusko]

lol I posted this exact article in the SAS thread when it first came out

yer late pal

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 6/5/2018 at 11:44 PM, kosciusko said:

lol I posted this exact article in the SAS thread when it first came out

yer late pal

 

On 5/1/2018 at 5:52 PM, kosciusko said:

http://pix11.com/2018/05/01/plans-move-ahead-for-second-avenue-subway-phase-two-in-harlem/

Yes, there it is. At first I didn’t realize it was the same news story. I had to do a double take at the date because I originally thought the OP was an update on the project's progress. 

Still hoping for some more good news on SAS Phase 2, especially either bringing down the price tag on the current Phase 2 plans or do something more to make it, you know, actually worth $6 Billion.

[Wallyhorse]

On 6/7/2018 at 2:10 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

 

Yes, there it is. At first I didn’t realize it was the same news story. I had to do a double take at the date because I originally thought the OP was an update on the project's progress. 

Still hoping for some more good news on SAS Phase 2, especially either bringing down the price tag on the current Phase 2 plans or do something more to make it, you know, actually worth $6 Billion.

As in:

1. Making 125th Street three tracks:

2. Providing service all the way across 125th Street to Broadway with transfers to all other lines that cross 125th PLUS building a connection to the 8th Avenue line that potentially could allow an SAS line to go to the extreme UWS and/or the Concourse line.

3. Providing a provision (either underground or elevated to go to at least 138th if not 149th and 3rd Avenue in The Bronx.

[Brillant93]

Goodbye trying to get a seat on the Q train. 🙄

[kosciusko]

2 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Goodbye trying to get a seat on the Q train. 🙄

It already impossible at 63rd during rush hour. It's packed in both directions.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

4 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

As in:

1. Making 125th Street three tracks:

2. Providing service all the way across 125th Street to Broadway with transfers to all other lines that cross 125th PLUS building a connection to the 8th Avenue line that potentially could allow an SAS line to go to the extreme UWS and/or the Concourse line.

3. Providing a provision (either underground or elevated to go to at least 138th if not 149th and 3rd Avenue in The Bronx.

Eh, I’d rather provide service to 149th and 138th and 3rd first and provide the provision to go across 125th. I feel like it’s far more effective at relieving overcrowding on the  than going across 125th. 

Or to go northwest from 138th and 3rd towards 149th-Grand Concourse and provide a provision to “capture” the  line (which is built to B-Division clearances). 

[LGA Link N Train]

10 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Or to go northwest from 138th and 3rd towards 149th-Grand Concourse and provide a provision to “capture” the  line (which is built to B-Division clearances).

I've thought of that Idea before and it's not too bad of an idea either. But if SAS manages to capture the Jerome Avenue Line, then the junction connecting 138 Street and 149 Street would need a complete rebuild. 

[bobtehpanda]

On 6/17/2018 at 8:30 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Eh, I’d rather provide service to 149th and 138th and 3rd first and provide the provision to go across 125th. I feel like it’s far more effective at relieving overcrowding on the  than going across 125th. 

Or to go northwest from 138th and 3rd towards 149th-Grand Concourse and provide a provision to “capture” the  line (which is built to B-Division clearances). 

If you capture Jerome, where would the trains go? There's not enough room on WPR and short turning would be a waste.

[Eric B]

Ideas of capturing one of the  Bronx lines for Second Ave. usually involve giving the freed up Lex express capacity to the remaining lines. Like giving Pelham a “thru-express” service.

[Lance]

But how would that service run? Both Pelham and White Plains Rd are busy enough lines, enough so to warrant additional service, but I cannot see either needing another full-fledged service freed up by kicking the off the Jerome Ave line. Send it up White Plains Rd, presumably to Nereid Av or 241 Street and you essentially have three services on the lower portion of the line. Overkill if you ask me, especially since it would likely just duplicate the present  service. Pelham, currently only with the , fares a little better by having the bunk with it and creating that Pelham-Lex express mentioned above. but again, is such a service even viable? The runs as smoothly as it does right now because there are very few merging points along the route. The only merges are at Parkchester and 3 Av-138 St where the and meet. Creating a new Pelham-Lex express service would introduce a new merge and likely require some IND-style junction to alleviate the potential for delays.

I believe that's why when something similar was proposed for the '50s 2nd Avenue projects, where 2nd Avenue would absorb the Pelham line in its entirety, the plan was for what's now the line to become the Lexington Ave local, creating a new connection between the Mott Haven and Harlem River junctions.

Of course, I don't believe this is a course of action the MTA should consider in the first place as it spits in the face of those who do not presently have adequate transit options. Recapturing existing lines saves money, but it does little to expand the system beyond its existing layout.

[bobtehpanda]

11 hours ago, Lance said:

But how would that service run? Both Pelham and White Plains Rd are busy enough lines, enough so to warrant additional service, but I cannot see either needing another full-fledged service freed up by kicking the off the Jerome Ave line. Send it up White Plains Rd, presumably to Nereid Av or 241 Street and you essentially have three services on the lower portion of the line. Overkill if you ask me, especially since it would likely just duplicate the present  service. Pelham, currently only with the , fares a little better by having the bunk with it and creating that Pelham-Lex express mentioned above. but again, is such a service even viable? The runs as smoothly as it does right now because there are very few merging points along the route. The only merges are at Parkchester and 3 Av-138 St where the and meet. Creating a new Pelham-Lex express service would introduce a new merge and likely require some IND-style junction to alleviate the potential for delays.

I believe that's why when something similar was proposed for the '50s 2nd Avenue projects, where 2nd Avenue would absorb the Pelham line in its entirety, the plan was for what's now the line to become the Lexington Ave local, creating a new connection between the Mott Haven and Harlem River junctions.

Of course, I don't believe this is a course of action the MTA should consider in the first place as it spits in the face of those who do not presently have adequate transit options. Recapturing existing lines saves money, but it does little to expand the system beyond its existing layout.

More importantly, there isn't any room. The Pelham Line is basically running as many trains as possible, and WPR is already congested from and trains. 

[RailRunRob]

So routing and alignment are already locked to 125th and Lex? There's so much planned for the South Bronx including a Soccer Stadium don't understand why they're not studying a route to The Bronx or at the very least making sure the provisions are in place.

[NewFlyer 230]

12 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

So routing and alignment are already locked to 125th and Lex? There's so much planned for the South Bronx including a Soccer Stadium don't understand why they're not studying a route to The Bronx or at the very least making sure the provisions are in place.

Hopefully the MTA leaves room for a future extension to the Bronx. It would be a shame if both services terminated at Lexington and 125th with no provisions because that would be short sighted of the MTA. 

[GojiMet86]

Phase II should have had the stop at 125th Street at 2nd Avenue AND a terminal at 3rd Avenue-138th Street. I don't disagree with a 125th Street crosstown line because I have seen the number of people using that corridor, but the Bronx is where a bigger bulk of Lexington Avenue ridership comes from.

 

Now if I had it my way, there would be a 10th Avenue line taking care of 125th Street west to east and heading to the Bronx.

[RR503]

I also think it's important to remember that all those Bronx recapture plans were made when the 3rd Avenue el still existed in some form. The Bronx thus didn't really have major transit deserts, so the best the agency could plan for was the improvement of existing services, ie, recapture. Now, there is a very large, very densely populated hole in the borough's transit network. It strikes me as most reasonable for SAS to address that. 

[RailRunRob]

That would be a huge miss.

[Union Tpke]

2 hours ago, RR503 said:

I also think it's important to remember that all those Bronx recapture plans were made when the 3rd Avenue el still existed in some form. The Bronx thus didn't really have major transit deserts, so the best the agency could plan for was the improvement of existing services, ie, recapture. Now, there is a very large, very densely populated hole in the borough's transit network. It strikes me as most reasonable for SAS to address that. 

At this point, a serious effort should be made to improve Harlem Line service. Stations should be opened at 149th Street, Claremont Parkway and Morrisania, platforms should be full lenth, and the fares should equal the subway fare.

[RailRunRob]

10 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

At this point, a serious effort should be made to improve Harlem Line service. Stations should be opened at 149th Street, Claremont Parkway and Morrisania, platforms should be full lenth, and the fares should equal the subway fare.

What would you need to do to up frequency? Short turn trains at Mount Vernon West?