Mayor and City Council Reach Deal To Provide Discounted Metrocards for the Poor

[RailRunRob]

45 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well you can speak for yourself.  My family has always worked for what they had and not looked for handouts. I should add that plenty of poor families do the same, so I don't buy the excuses being made. In any event, the real issue with these programs are not that they exist, but that we see endless cycles with these people remaining on the programs for generations. It's costly to maintain such programs in the first place and then continue them as the population grows.  It's simple economics.  We can talk about turning noses up and morality til the end of time, but essentially we all need to be responsible for ourselves, and put into the system.  That's why I have no problem with things that social security, where people EARN the monies they receive in retirement.

Listen I understand we can really only view the world from our perspective and that's your view.  Without out proper information and the ability to process that information, hard work means what?  This is my point the field isn't even from jump for everyone that's a logical truth.  So it's impossible for me to even fathom knows better or doesn't know better.  My point in bringing up the GI bill is let's be honest a lot of these folks that emptied the Bronx and Brooklyn and became the middle class they could have worked there hardest until the day they died and not achieved home ownership and education options that the government gave access to. Now to be fair our boys coming home deserved every bit of opportunity given for there sacrifice. But to be fair again these opportunities weren't exactly distributed equally if you know what I mean!! But they were helped on their feet they didn't fully do that on their own right? But they got the payout... I too was taught the lesson of rolling up your sleeves and digging your heels in and getting to work. But I was also taught the lesson of ownership and strategy. Hard work doesn't exactly guarantee success in today's world. Just because a car is moving doesn't mean it's going anywhere hell you could be driving in circles. The point is the system is always going to need to balance itself in some places at a time or another this might be one of em.  There's always going to be someone gaming the system the same way there margins of errors with even software or product or even bad debt on the company books you take a loss somewhere at some point. 10% loss over 90% gain and helping people? Give some numbers.. I'm okay with my Tax dollars going to help families here in NYC. I would much rather my Contributions stay here anyways. Not boosting but I can 1000% Guarantee ive paid more taxes than you over the last 5 years.(Im sure you'll be paying more than me next year tho.. in your defense. One thing 45 did right!!) So what about my opinion? Arent I technically contributing more? Not a contest just asking?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Listen I understand we can really only view the world from our perspective and that's your view.  Without out proper information and the ability to process that information, hard work means what?  This is my point the field isn't even from jump for everyone that's a logical truth.  So it's impossible for me to even fathom knows better or doesn't know better.  My point in bringing up the GI bill is let's be honest a lot of these folks that emptied the Bronx and Brooklyn and became the middle class they could have worked there hardest until the day they died and not achieved home ownership and education options that the government gave access to. Now to be fair our boys coming home deserved every bit of opportunity given for there sacrifice. But to be fair again these opportunities weren't exactly distributed equally if you know what I mean!! But they were helped on their feet they didn't fully do that on their own right? But they got the payout... I too was taught the lesson of rolling up your sleeves and digging your heels in and getting to work. But I was also taught the lesson of ownership and strategy. Hard work doesn't exactly guarantee success in today's world. Just because a car is moving doesn't mean it's going anywhere hell you could be driving in circles. The point is the system is always going to need to balance itself in some places at a time or another this might be one of em.  There's always going to be someone gaming the system the same way there margins of errors with even software or product or even bad debt on the company books you take a loss somewhere at some point. 10% loss over 90% gain and helping people? Give some numbers.. I'm okay with my Tax dollars going to help families here in NYC. I would much rather my Contributions stay here anyways. Not boosting but I can 1000% Guarantee ive paid more taxes than you over the last 5 years.(Im sure you'll be paying more than me next year tho.. in your defense. One thing 45 did right!!) So what about my opinion? Arent I technically contributing more? Not a contest just asking?

I would hope so since you've stated that you own your own business ,otherwise that wouldn't be good. lol A business owner should be earning more than someone who runs a department and consults privately unless it's a really small business, so my attitude is I'm never concerned with what the next guy is making as long as I'm not paying out of my pocket for him. Nevertheless I've been working since I was 15, and I've always had several jobs because I like having money in my pocket and being independent, so I too have contributed my fair share in taxes.  I've seen my Social Security statements and I have to look at them again when I view them.  I forget how long I've been working, even at this young age. 

I completely understand old people that continue to work like crazy even though they don't need the money. It keeps you feeling young.  As I get older now I cut back on working as much, but still log long hours compared to most I'm sure.  I'm supportive of social programs, but they should be temporary, not something that people lay on their entire lives.  Anyone can lose their job due to health or anything, so I'm sympathetic to people falling on hard times, but at some point you have to get rid of the crutches and stand on your own two feet, otherwise it never ends.

[RailRunRob]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I would hope so since you've stated that you own your own business ,otherwise that wouldn't be good. lol A business owner should be earning more than someone who runs a department and consults privately unless it's a really small business, so my attitude is I'm never concerned with what the next guy is making as long as I'm not paying out of my pocket for him.

Beyond that is the point of creating opportunity for others I very rarely meet anyone that doesn't want to do better for themselves if given the option. Most people don't know how to move forward.. from my experience that's my overarching point. And your correct shouldn't be looking at the next man I dont so I hear you.. The only reason it came up is because of your Tax comments and what you contribute So I figured maybe I should bring up what I put in as well. (Shrugs) I wouldn't have said anything about it otherwise.

 

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nevertheless I've been working since I was 15, and I've always had several jobs because I like having money in my pocket and being independent, so I too have contributed my fair share in taxes.  I've seen my Social Security statements and I have to look at them again when I view them.  I forget how long I've been working, even at this young age. 

 

I'm with you man!! You earned it!! That's not in question..  As parent, even something like being independent is some that has to be taught to a child. I'm teaching these lessons now responsibility, honesty, independence. My point again is your parents had the knowledge and information to instill that into you.. Say they didn't? You're not born with this information or sense of responsibility. A child that isn't taught that still goes out into the world and is still judged to that standard? Kinda like having my hands tied and being told to swim and race and then being chastised for not performing.. Kinda how I perceive your comments whenever this topic comes up.  And to be fair it's not just you actually honestly it's a lot of conversations I've been having lately. Not saying that makes your a bad person or anything it's your opinion just saying these there are other truths than our own.     

 

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm supportive of social programs, but they should be temporary, not something that people lay on their entire lives.  Anyone can lose their job due to health or anything, so I'm sympathetic to people falling on hard times, but at some point you have to get rid of the crutches and stand on your own two feet, otherwise it never ends.

Im with you on this as well.. Again the elephant in the room and I'm just going to say it is this misconception that Black and Brown individuals game the system and don't contribute to society for the most part. Not saying it's you but it's apart of the American narrative and im interpreting this message in your tone if I'm wrong I stand corrected. I'm definitely not for generational crutches but we also have to understand that opportunities arent distributed equally it's cause and affect. The GI bill was prime example of that. The Government Didn't distribute these Opportunities equally They chose who they felt fit to receive and in alot cases who are familiar and relatable to the person giving. Something as simple as that could have greatly changed the lives of millions and siphoned the need modern day needs for smaller programs even like this. Something as simple as Land equals wealth passed down for a foundation on which upward mobility is built. Look at the housing bailouts my taxes paid for millions of middle-class folks trying to live above there means? But because it wasn't folks in urban centers it wasn't a handout?   But work harder? So for so many people, even the HARDEST work ethics can't break this cycle so help is needed. So I think the narrative of most people wanting to stay down in dumps is a bunch of Baloney. Opportunity doesn't reach down far enough a lot of times even with Education nowadays. It's not sympathy we need it's empathy. If this going to help a family making 50-60k get to work and earn there keep im for it. Your focusing to much on the outliers and extreme cases.   

[Via Garibaldi 8]

27 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Beyond that is the point of creating opportunity for others I very rarely meet anyone that doesn't want to do better for themselves if given the option. Most people don't know how to move forward.. from my experience that's my overarching point. And your correct shouldn't be looking at the next man I dont so I hear you.. The only reason it came up is because of your Tax comments and what you contribute So I figured maybe I should bring up what I put in as well. (Shrugs) I wouldn't have said anything about it otherwise.

 

I'm with you man!! You earned it!! That's not in question..  As parent, even something like being independent is some that has to be taught to a child. I'm teaching these lessons now responsibility, honesty, independence. My point again is your parents had the knowledge and information to instill that into you.. Say they didn't? You're not born with this information or sense of responsibility. A child that isn't taught that still goes out into the world and is still judged to that standard? Kinda like having my hands tied and being told to swim and race and then being chastised for not performing.. Kinda how I perceive your comments whenever this topic comes up.  And to be fair it's not just you actually honestly it's a lot of conversations I've been having lately. Not saying that makes your a bad person or anything it's your opinion just saying these there are other truths than our own.     

 

All tax payers have a right to speak about where their money goes.  It's just that simple, and ultimately there's no right or wrong.  If you feel fine where you tax dollars go, that's fine, just like I have a say in where mines should or shouldn't go. 

Additionally, while it's the parents responsibility to do the things we've discussed, not all of them will.  That's just the reality of things.  That said, that's where government comes in. I would much rather see more tax dollars put towards programs that enabled these people as opposed to just giving them handouts.  It's one thing to create jobs, but if they're all low paying jobs, these people still will be dependent upon social programs.  The City Council loves touting that they create jobs within poor communities, but what they often omit is that they don't pay well at all.  Retail and other service jobs were never meant to pay well, so of course these people are going to struggle, and the City Council knows this.  This is why in my mind, it's nothing more than pandering. 

2 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Im with you on this as well.. Again the elephant in the room and I'm just going to say it is this misconception that Black and Brown individuals game the system and don't contribute to society for the most part. Not saying it's you but it's apart of the American narrative and im interpreting this message in your tone if I'm wrong I stand corrected. I'm definitely not for generational crutches but we also have to understand that opportunities arent distributed equally it's cause and affect. The GI bill was prime example of that. The Government Didn't distribute these Opportunities equally They chose who they felt fit to receive and in alot cases who are familiar and relatable to the person giving. Something as simple as that could have greatly changed the lives of millions and siphoned the need modern day needs for smaller programs even like this. Something as simple Land equals wealth passed down for a foundation on which upward mobility is built. Look at the housing bailouts my taxes paid for millions of middle-class folks trying to live above there means? But because it wasn't folks in urban centers it wasn't a handout?   But work harder? So for so many people, even the HARDEST work ethics can't break this cycle so help is needed. So I think the narrative of most people wanting to stay down in dumps is a bunch of Baloney. Opportunity doesn't reach down far enough a lot of times even with Education nowadays. It's not sympathy we need it's empathy. If this going to help a family making 50-60k get to work and earn there keep im for it. Your focusing to much on the outliers and extreme cases.   

I don't believe I ever mentioned ethnic groups. I think you brought that up.  In any case, there are people of various backgrounds (both ethnic and economic) that are gaming the system, be it poor, or rich. These sorts of programs are bound to have it and the more of them you create, the more monies has to go towards eliminating abuse.

[RailRunRob]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

All tax payers have a right to speak about where their money goes.  It's just that simple, and ultimately there's no right or wrong.  If you feel fine where you tax dollars go, that's fine, just like I have a say in where mines should or shouldn't go. 

 

I agree  I'm just stating my opinion not trying to force you to drink Kool aid as the saying go's.

 

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I would much rather see more tax dollars put towards programs that enabled these people as opposed to just giving them handouts.  It's one thing to create jobs, but if they're all low paying jobs, these people still will be dependent upon social programs.  The City Council loves touting that they create jobs within poor communities, but what they often omit is that they don't pay well at all.  Retail and other service jobs were never meant to pay well, so of course these people are going to struggle, and the City Council knows this.  This is why in my mind, it's nothing more than pandering. 

You have a point. And your right about the handout's in most cases and teaching a person how to fish. I think in this case both might be necessary. You have to keep ball rolling as you build. Travel and the ability to do so is crucial and ability to maintain or not on some level. But I understand where your coming from just these universal rules and laws don't work for everyone. The World would be a much better place if they did. I wish they did.

[RailRunRob]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't believe I ever mentioned ethnic groups. I think you brought that up.  In any case, there are people of various backgrounds (both ethnic and economic) that are gaming the system, be it poor, or rich. These sorts of programs are bound to have it and the more of them you create, the more monies has to go towards eliminating abuse.

You didn't directly and as I said it's an undertone that im interpreting in the message. I could be wrong but that's how im perceiving it. It's no secret that ethnicity and economics overlap on so many levels they can be perceived as one in the same.. There's a difference in how help is perceived depending who's asking or receiving. Example when majority white Counties in an Alabama or Iowa receives help from the State or for the Feds it's never this amount of uproar. People are just down on their luck this is the story you'll hear and trust me I've been placed in Midwest and the South were there gaming the system big time. It's never this type of pushback ever.  I just pointed two major helping hands given by the Feds before and my Tax monies helped fund the second (Bailouts). On a more local level when the FDNY, NYPD were gaming the Retirement pension funds in the convo for a day and not a peep after. Hasidic Community gaming housing benefits for years kinda in the news (Shurgs) Meh... no major uproar.  But Subsidize fares and School cards and all hell breaks loose.  I mean a blind man can see the change in narratives when it's Black or Brown Recipient or even if it's perceived to be.  I'm just pointing this out. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say maybe this is a narrative or frequency you have yet to have tapped into or able to yet see. But ohh it's there. Reminds me of the famous Lyndon B Johnson quote and I'll Recite the end I don't want to make this anymore political anyone interested can do the research. 

"Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."  Oh Boy is that the truth What you'll do for purpose ..

Ahhh..America the mother that surely has her favorites. All I have to say on that i'll leave it there. (Shrugs)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

24 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

You didn't directly and as I said it's an undertone that im interpreting in the message. I could be wrong but that's how im perceiving it. It's no secret that ethnicity and economics overlap on so many levels they can be perceived as one in the same.. There's a difference in how help is perceived depending who's asking or receiving. Example when majority white Counties in an Alabama or Iowa receives help from the State or for the Feds it's never this amount of uproar. People are just down on their luck this is the story you'll hear and trust me I've been placed in Midwest and the South were there gaming the system big time. It's never this type of pushback ever.  I just pointed two major helping hands given by the Feds before and my Tax monies helped fund the second (Bailouts). On a more local level when the FDNY, NYPD were gaming the Retirement pension funds in the convo for a day and not a peep after. Hasidic Community gaming housing benefits for years kinda in the news (Shurgs) Meh... no major uproar.  But Subsidize fares and School cards and all hell breaks loose.  I mean a blind man can see the change in narratives when it's Black or Brown Recipient or even if it's perceived to be.  I'm just pointing this out. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say maybe this is a narrative or frequency you have yet to have tapped into or able to yet see. But ohh it's there. Reminds me of the famous Lyndon B Johnson quote and I'll Recite the end I don't want to make this anymore political anyone interested can do the research. 

"Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."  Oh Boy is that the truth What you'll do for purpose ..

Ahhh..America the mother that surely has her favorites. All I have to say on that i'll leave it there. (Shrugs)

I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was important to mention.  My position is pretty firm, regardless of one's economic or ethnic background.  I am fiscally conservative and I think by now that's pretty clear.  You're free to keep harping on it if you wish, but quite frankly I've made no distinction.  This was posted because it's a topic regarding transportation in a transportation forum.  If you posted other such topics about handouts in the off-topic sections, my reaction would be the same.  

There are a lot of people in this City that can't stand the mayor or the City Council and the wasteful spending, not just on projects like this but in general (including things like wasteful paving projects that are disorganized) and voted for Malliotakis, so these are the sorts of things that are discussed since we're here in NYC and not in Alabama or elsewhere.

[RailRunRob]

27 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was important to mention.  My position is pretty firm, regardless of one's economic or ethnic background.  I am fiscally conservative and I think by now that's pretty clear.  You're free to keep harping on it if you wish, but quite frankly I've made no distinction.  This was posted because it's a topic regarding transportation in a transportation forum.  If you posted other such topics about handouts in the off-topic sections, my reaction would be the same.  

 

 

I gotcha no need to harp. Perception is reality in most cases just letting you know what i'm perceiving. If im off im off.. I respect your position and feeling on whats going on in this City can't say your wrong on most things.

[kosciusko]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Because I was raised to work for what you want and be independent. I'd be embarrassed to take such handouts. I just find it funny that you're the social justice warrior living comfortably in SoHo, one of the most expensive areas of the City. You folks trip me out. I can say proudly that I came from a middle class family that worked hard and didn't have a silver spoon in my mouth, so I know about hard work. I don't think you do though.

Sure, and I can proudly say that I have a better understanding of economics then you.  If you really think living on welfare is easy then I urge you to reconsider your stance.

You and I have had this debate countless times in the past.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, kosciusko said:

Sure, and I can proudly say that I have a better understanding of economics then you.  If you really think living on welfare is easy then I urge you to reconsider your stance.

You and I have had this debate countless times in the past.

It sure as hell is easy if you're living off of someone else's dime. You don't even work yet to pay taxes. 

[kosciusko]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It sure as hell is easy if you're living off of someone else's dime. You don't even work yet to pay taxes. 

I've got a job, I pay taxes. You don't know anything about me. To you I'm just some dude on a train discussion forum. Let's discuss trains, not make assumptions about people we've never met.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

I've got a job, I pay taxes. You don't know anything about me. To you I'm just some dude on a train discussion forum. Let's discuss trains, not make assumptions about people we've never met.

Well that's good. We need all of the taxpayers we can get to fund these programs.