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Via Garibaldi 8

Mayor and City Council Reach Deal To Provide Discounted Metrocards for the Poor

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Great, looks like my taxes are going to go up.

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6 minutes ago, INDman said:

Great, looks like my taxes are going to go up.

$250 million dollars is a lot of money. I can think of better things for the use of this money. I don't see these people paying. If anything maybe they dip the card and then keep walking, so yet again the taxpayer is on the hook.

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I don’t mind helping the poor to stay alive, clothing donations, food banks, and the sort. But nearly free transportation to and from work? The subway isn’t a luxury but it think it falls short of being a neccecity. You have many people in rural America who have not public transit or personal vechicle, yet they still get to and from work. 

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You know why doesn’t the city spend the extra money on averting the fare increase planned for next year. That’s better for EVERYONE. But again gotta fill those liberal agendas.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, INDman said:

I don’t mind helping the poor to stay alive, clothing donations, food banks, and the sort. But nearly free transportation to and from work? The subway isn’t a luxury but it think it falls short of being a neccecity. You have many people in rural America who have not public transit or personal vechicle, yet they still get to and from work. 

 

7 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

You know why doesn’t the city spend the extra money on averting the fare increase planned for next year. That’s better for EVERYONE. But again gotta fill those liberal agendas.

I just think this is wasted money.  The monies are only going to pay a portion of their fare.  Second, this a mayor that screamed and yelled about forking over monies to the (MTA) to improve the system. He balked at this idea originally for the right reason... It's costly. Now he's doing an about face. The cost is going to go up over time because if the fares keep raising every two years well you need more monies to cover the program. I just see this as a disaster that's costing taxpayers when they already pay a ton in taxes as it is.  This isn't a millionaire's tax. It's a tax on anyone that works.  Worst of all it sends the wrong message.  You don't need to be responsible for yourself. Someone else can take care of you.  I mean if these people are that poor, surely they qualify for other benefits I would imagine.  I wouldn't mind paying for the programs he's been running if they were effective, but to see all of this money being thrown at problems that aren't be solved is disturbing to say the least.  It's not as if these people are going to pay the other half of the fare, so what's the point?  There still not going to pay, and they may just try to sell their Metrocard for a few bucks.  I'd be curious to know how they plan on dealing with abuse of the program.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

I just think this is wasted money.  The monies are only going to pay a portion of their fare.  Second, this a mayor that screamed and yelled about forking over monies to the (MTA) to improve the system. He balked at this idea originally for the right reason... It's costly. Now he's doing an about face. The cost is going to go up over time because if the fares keep raising every two years well you need more monies to cover the program. I just see this as a disaster that's costing taxpayers when they already pay a ton in taxes as it is.  This isn't a millionaire's tax. It's a tax on anyone that works.  Worst of all it sends the wrong message.  You don't need to be responsible for yourself. Someone else can take care of you.  I mean if these people are that poor, surely they qualify for other benefits I would imagine.  I wouldn't mind paying for the programs he's been running if they were effective, but to see all of this money being thrown at problems that aren't be solved is disturbing to say the least.  It's not as if these people are going to pay the other half of the fare, so what's the point?  There still not going to pay, and they may just try to sell their Metrocard for a few bucks.  I'd be curious to know how they plan on dealing with abuse of the program.

 

They will probably use the same honor system they currently use for Metrocards given out as part of Medicaid programs to patients so they can (theoretically) get to and from medical appointments LOL. I see people selling those things left and right, or getting cards even when they don't need have a follow-up appointment scheduled and using it for other purposes. 

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1 minute ago, QM1to6Ave said:

 

They will probably use the same honor system they currently use for Metrocards given out as part of Medicaid programs to patients so they can (theoretically) get to and from medical appointments LOL. I see people selling those things left and right, or getting cards even when they don't need have a follow-up appointment scheduled and using it for other purposes. 

Which is exactly why they're a waste.  Some of the healthcare organizations are clients of mine and of course as you know the sponsor of these research studies will provide funding for the patients' transportation needs.  I'm fine with private funds being used for folks to get around, but using public monies for something that will be abused.... $200 million annually... But they don't have more funds to give the (MTA) for better service... With maybe $20 million, you could improve bus service substantially in areas like yours and have half hour service instead such long periods with hourly service on the QM lines.

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18 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

$250 million dollars is a lot of money. I can think of better things for the use of this money. I don't see these people paying. If anything maybe they dip the card and then keep walking, so yet again the taxpayer is on the hook.

 

16 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

You know why doesn’t the city spend the extra money on averting the fare increase planned for next year. That’s better for EVERYONE. But again gotta fill those liberal agendas.

 

19 hours ago, INDman said:

Great, looks like my taxes are going to go up.

Because f**k poor people right?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

 

 

Because f**k poor people right?

No because $250 million dollars is a lot of money for a program that may not solve the problem that it's intended to solve.  Why not take that money and lower the fares for ALL riders?  We have no idea how abuse will be controlled (if at all), so we're just giving 800,000 people that qualify reduced fare Metrocards that they can easily sell and then they'll be back to square one.  Abuse of such a program is a real problem just like it was with Food stamps back in the day. People would sell their Food stamps and take the money and use it for other things. This administration has a habit of blowing money. They're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to address homelessness, and yet homelessness is worse than ever here.  

It actually doesn't even pay to work anymore because with the amount of taxes they take it's a joke.  If you're not married, be prepared to have a good 30%+ of your paycheck eaten in taxes.  At least have the monies be used and solve issues rather than pissing it away.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Why does this not surprise me when it comes to the City Council? or for that matter the New York State Legislature? 

The problem is that once a program gets started, it is virtually impossible to eliminate it as it develops a constituency that becomes a pressure group that will fight tooth and nail to preserve it. The issue then becomes not whether the program is effective (which in my opinion this idea is not) but how to placate the pressure group if the program is eliminated after it is started.

I will keep repeating what I have said many times on other threads on the forum as the day after 2018 election, we will be told that the state and city have billion dollar deficits for 2018/19 fiscal year and all programs have to be cut to save money. The question then becomes then why did the council and the legislature pad the budget with programs that they knew were not necessary? Then the mantra becomes that taxes have to be raised which means that more businesses and taxpayers will leave the city and state which means that the deficits will get larger over the following fiscal years. 

The money that is being allocated for this program would be better not being spent at all or being placed in a rainy day fund but a sensible suggestion like this will never see the light of day because too many members of the council and the legislature are addicted to spending.

 

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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No because $250 million dollars is a lot of money for a program that may not solve the problem that it's intended to solve.  Why not take that money and lower the fares for ALL riders?  We have no idea how abuse will be controlled (if at all), so we're just giving 800,000 people that qualify reduced fare Metrocards that they can easily sell and then they'll be back to square one.  Abuse of such a program is a real problem just like it was with Food stamps back in the day. People would sell their Food stamps and take the money and use it for other things. This administration has a habit of blowing money. They're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to address homelessness, and yet homelessness is worse than ever here.  

It actually doesn't even pay to work anymore because with the amount of taxes they take it's a joke.  If you're not married, be prepared to have a good 30%+ of your paycheck eaten in taxes.  At least have the monies be used and solve issues rather than pissing it away.

250 million dollars may sound like a lot of money to you, but for an agency that spends tens of billions of dollars annually it's really just a drop in the bucket. 250 million isn't nearly enough money to lower fares for every rider by a significant amount. You have to understand the massive amounts of money that the (MTA) handles, 250 million isn't very much. You bring up "food stamp fraud" but if you knew anything about the program you would know that's it's almost impossible to sell EBT cards for cash today(see link). Maybe it was a problem back in the day but it isn't now and it isn't at all comparable to metrocards.

Why are you so sure that this program is going to be abused, do you have any evidence to support this claim?

 

>It actually doesn't even pay to work anymore because with the amount of taxes they take it's a joke.

lol you can't be serious.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/04/what-many-americans-get-wrong-about-food-stamps-according-to-an-economist/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d3156245826

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6 hours ago, kosciusko said:

 

 

Because f**k poor people right?

Yep, you nailed it. That’s exactly what I said.

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It is funny how he wants to fund Discounted MetroCards for 800,000 people, but didn't want to fork 400,000 on the Subway Action Plan for 6 Billion riders. I feel that the program could work as long as they have protocol for fare increases, selling swipes, and abusive use. Yes it means more out of our pocket on Taxes which no one looks forward too, especially if you are single. This mayor is nothing but a Psycopath who feels that money grows on trees, I am surprised the city hasn't gone bankrupt. DOT spends billions every year wasting it on putting cinderblock stones on the street like a Pre Schoolers Back Yard, while also Tightening up streets so much, that even a car can't make a turn without backing up. The way this mayor works is with his brain in his ass and his hole on his head. The Free Rikers bus also will come out of our pockets which means even more Taxes. This state has an already obscene level of taxes to even think about paying more. It is great to help the needy, but you can't make a program out of the blue and not think about a way, that you can prevent MetroCard abuse, like (e.g. Photo ID, Name) things that make it OBVIOUS that MetroCards aren't being sold to get some delinquent ass-hole onto Buses and trains. Most of my commute I spend it listening on Homeless people and Panhandlers who literally are begging the shit out of you while they are on SSI, Welfare, EBT, and SNAP. Then he brings up "Neighborhood Policing" which leaves me wondering, "Where in Hell are the cops!?" I'd imagine they'd be at each station daily, unless they are in the division of Invisible Cops. Then the Traffic lights are HELL. Now with this Vision Zero disgrace he acts like he cares about Safe driving, when his drivers can't even maintain themselves in a SINGLE LANE!

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, kosciusko said:

250 million dollars may sound like a lot of money to you, but for an agency that spends tens of billions of dollars annually it's really just a drop in the bucket. 250 million isn't nearly enough money to lower fares for every rider by a significant amount. You have to understand the massive amounts of money that the (MTA) handles, 250 million isn't very much. You bring up "food stamp fraud" but if you knew anything about the program you would know that's it's almost impossible to sell EBT cards for cash today(see link). Maybe it was a problem back in the day but it isn't now and it isn't at all comparable to metrocards.

To argue against it, $250M was about half the gap that had to be closed during the 2010 service cuts.

I would rather have $250M go into improving bus services, than make the currently shitty service free for some people.

Edited by bobtehpanda
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, kosciusko said:

250 million dollars may sound like a lot of money to you, but for an agency that spends tens of billions of dollars annually it's really just a drop in the bucket. 250 million isn't nearly enough money to lower fares for every rider by a significant amount. You have to understand the massive amounts of money that the (MTA) handles, 250 million isn't very much. You bring up "food stamp fraud" but if you knew anything about the program you would know that's it's almost impossible to sell EBT cards for cash today(see link). Maybe it was a problem back in the day but it isn't now and it isn't at all comparable to metrocards.

Why are you so sure that this program is going to be abused, do you have any evidence to support this claim?

 

>It actually doesn't even pay to work anymore because with the amount of taxes they take it's a joke.

lol you can't be serious.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/04/what-many-americans-get-wrong-about-food-stamps-according-to-an-economist/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d3156245826

Because people already abuse Metrocards. Furthermore it isn't about how much the (MTA) spends. It's about NYC not having an endless flow of cash to piss away. The mayor objected to funding this originally saying the cost was too high and the City didn't have $250 million to pay for such a program. Well where did the money suddenly come from? $250 million is a lot of money that could be used for a ton of other things. We could hire more cops ten times over. We could fund mental health services, build more schools (our schools are overcrowded). I can go on and on about what that money would be better used for and in just four years, that's one billion dollars in taxpayer dollars going down the drain. That's not even accounting for fare increases. Just crazy. When we have another financial crisis (and we will because economies are cyclical), it will be nice to see how the City pays for this. As it stands now, this administration spends money like it's no tomorrow with no results. That's the real problem. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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10 hours ago, kosciusko said:

250 million dollars may sound like a lot of money to you, but for an agency that spends tens of billions of dollars annually it's really just a drop in the bucket. 250 million isn't nearly enough money to lower fares for every rider by a significant amount. You have to understand the massive amounts of money that the (MTA) handles, 250 million isn't very much. You bring up "food stamp fraud" but if you knew anything about the program you would know that's it's almost impossible to sell EBT cards for cash today(see link). Maybe it was a problem back in the day but it isn't now and it isn't at all comparable to metrocards.

Why are you so sure that this program is going to be abused, do you have any evidence to support this claim?

 

>It actually doesn't even pay to work anymore because with the amount of taxes they take it's a joke.

lol you can't be serious.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/04/what-many-americans-get-wrong-about-food-stamps-according-to-an-economist/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d3156245826

Do you even work yet to know anything about paying a substantial amount in taxes? If you don't then yes, you can lol. It isn't coming out of your pocket. If you're in college you're still not paying anything really in taxes. Just don't get married and don't have kids and actually earn a nice salary and you'll see. It's like workers that earn over $100,000 a year doing a ton of overtime, but seeing a chunk of that eaten in taxes.

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On 6/8/2018 at 2:34 AM, Mtatransit said:

You know why doesn’t the city spend the extra money on averting the fare increase planned for next year. That’s better for EVERYONE. But again gotta fill those liberal agendas.

That is a better idea in my opinion. But at this point, it's pretty obvious that we need a Republican to lead New York this time. DeBlasio speaks but doesn't act upon, and Cuomo doesn't give a flipping duck about the subway system. By the way, have any republicans led New York in the past?

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3 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

That is a better idea in my opinion. But at this point, it's pretty obvious that we need a Republican to lead New York this time. DeBlasio speaks but doesn't act upon, and Cuomo doesn't give a flipping duck about the subway system. By the way, have any republicans led New York in the past?

Pataki and Rockefeller were Republican governors.

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Something to keep in mind is that pretty much every low-income rider ESPECIALLY in the city isn't a choice rider. They need to take the train or bus to get to work. Uber or cabs aren't even on their radar. Yes this program is expensive, but so are things like food stamps and school lunches, which I would argue are close to equal importance. A significant number of cities have done this already too.

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New York State has had two Republican governors in my lifetime and neither one was good for the transit system. Nelson Rockefeller created the MTA and gave the top job to his secretary William Ronan. George Pataki cut the funds allocated for the MTA while he was governor.

New York City had John Lindsay who was a Republican who turned Democrat to run for President in 1972. It is my opinion that the current mayor and John Lindsay have a lot in common in terms of their policies and what I am most concerned about is the mess that Lindsay left to Abe Beame, his successor and what this mayor will leave for his successor.

For the record, there is a Federal primary on June 26 and while the media is mentioning the Grimm v. Donovan contest for the Republican nomination for Congress, both Yvette Clarke and Gregory Meeks have primary opponents as well in their congressional districts. 

The primary election for state offices is Thursday September 13 so we can look forward to three more months of pie in the sky promises to help the transit system.

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12 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

New York State has had two Republican governors in my lifetime and neither one was good for the transit system. Nelson Rockefeller created the MTA and gave the top job to his secretary William Ronan. George Pataki cut the funds allocated for the MTA while he was governor.

New York City had John Lindsay who was a Republican who turned Democrat to run for President in 1972. It is my opinion that the current mayor and John Lindsay have a lot in common in terms of their policies and what I am most concerned about is the mess that Lindsay left to Abe Beame, his successor and what this mayor will leave for his successor.

For the record, there is a Federal primary on June 26 and while the media is mentioning the Grimm v. Donovan contest for the Republican nomination for Congress, both Yvette Clarke and Gregory Meeks have primary opponents as well in their congressional districts. 

The primary election for state offices is Thursday September 13 so we can look forward to three more months of pie in the sky promises to help the transit system.

I must be really old. Thomas Dewey at birth and Malcolm Wilson who replaced Nelson Rockefeller when Rockefeller became Vice President. 

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I was born the year that Thomas Dewey was running for president the second time (1948). I just turned 70 a week ago. 

If you asked people who was "Malcolm Wilson" , 99.9% would not know that he was the person who replaced Nelson Rockefeller as governor and who lost to Hugh Carey in the gubernatorial election of 1974. If you ask people who was Hugh Carey, the percentage would be high but I do not as high as there are still many  people who have not forgotten history.

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On 6/7/2018 at 11:46 PM, INDman said:

Great, looks like my taxes are going to go up.

Not really, given it's a city budget commitment when the city is in the midst of a surplus and the city tax rate almost never gets touched.

On 6/7/2018 at 11:53 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

$250 million dollars is a lot of money. I can think of better things for the use of this money. I don't see these people paying. If anything maybe they dip the card and then keep walking, so yet again the taxpayer is on the hook.

Unfounded, not that interesting of a speculation.

On 6/8/2018 at 12:16 AM, INDman said:

I don’t mind helping the poor to stay alive, clothing donations, food banks, and the sort. But nearly free transportation to and from work? The subway isn’t a luxury but it think it falls short of being a neccecity. You have many people in rural America who have not public transit or personal vechicle, yet they still get to and from work. 

It's not a totally uncommon thing across the country. Rhode Island has free fares for low-income residents. I think it's hard to call the subway anything besides a necessity for a significant number of people who commute into the city; it's the way the city is designed: outer borough residents commute to inner city jobs. The premise of those jobs is that there's reasonable existent infrastructure for that commute. 

On 6/8/2018 at 2:34 AM, Mtatransit said:

You know why doesn’t the city spend the extra money on averting the fare increase planned for next year. That’s better for EVERYONE. But again gotta fill those liberal agendas.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. The state-funded MTA has increases tied to its capital balance every year. The city's contribution here is something specific, and not even remotely large enough to affect fare increases. 

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1 minute ago, MHV9218 said:

Unfounded, not that interesting of a speculation.

It's not unfounded. People already receive free Metrocards and sell them.  It's a known fact. 

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