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Q77 extension to 147th Ave


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One idea which had been floated around this board years earlier is the extension of Q77's southern terminal to 147th Avenue, where connections would be available to the Q111 & Q114. It currently ends at 145th Road, where no other connecting routes are nearby.

When this idea was brought up years ago, it was mentioned that (at that time) Springfield Boulevard between 145th Road and 147th Avenue was relatively narrow compared to north of 145th Road, which would have meant increased congestion along that segment of the road. However, it seems that this segment of Springfield Boulevard has been widened over the last five years or so. Furthermore, I saw this Q77 extension request mentioned in statements of Community District Needs for Queens Community District 13 in recent years.

Thus, I have a feeling that the extension of Q77 to 147th Avenue is not a matter of if, but when.

Does anyone else agree with this feeling?

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I used to be all for the extension of the Q77 to 147th for connection purposes but then I don’t think the MTA would bother with that. I think simply for the fact that it’s ridership isn’t all that high especially towards the southern end of its route, and how many people would realistically be transferring between the Q111 and the Q77. 

The Q111 and Q114 (at 222nd Street) are more frequent and much faster to Jamaica than the Q77. 

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33 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I used to be all for the extension of the Q77 to 147th for connection purposes but then I don’t think the MTA would bother with that. I think simply for the fact that it’s ridership isn’t all that high especially towards the southern end of its route, and how many people would realistically be transferring between the Q111 and the Q77. 

The Q111 and Q114 (at 222nd Street) are more frequent and much faster to Jamaica than the Q77. 

Whatever amount of people want to travel between Rosedale/Far Rockaway and the Springfield/Francis Lewis corridor (plus, whatever additional riders are within a direct walking distance of the extension)

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Can't say that I can, no.....

Hell, a B71 extension to Lower Manhattan has been on Brooklyn CB6's table for years, before the dawn of this decade.... Just look at all those B71's currently in existence after the fact :(

--------------------

Anyway:

10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Whatever amount of people want to travel between Rosedale/Far Rockaway and the Springfield/Francis Lewis corridor (plus, whatever additional riders are within a direct walking distance of the extension)

Whatever amount of money that would end up going towards any Q77 extension would be much better off being spent improving service elsewhere in this city.

12 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I used to be all for the extension of the Q77 to 147th for connection purposes but then I don’t think the MTA would bother with that. I think simply for the fact that it’s ridership isn’t all that high especially towards the southern end of its route, and how many people would realistically be transferring between the Q111 and the Q77. 

The Q111 and Q114 (at 222nd Street) are more frequent and much faster to Jamaica than the Q77. 

*slow clap on the putting green*

IDK how long I've been making this very point on here...

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On 6/10/2018 at 12:30 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:

I used to be all for the extension of the Q77 to 147th for connection purposes but then I don’t think the MTA would bother with that. I think simply for the fact that it’s ridership isn’t all that high especially towards the southern end of its route, and how many people would realistically be transferring between the Q111 and the Q77. 

The Q111 and Q114 (at 222nd Street) are more frequent and much faster to Jamaica than the Q77. 

The only people that make that connection are the HS/JHS students that don't feel like back tracking to Jamaica just to get to Rosedale or Far Rockaway. I wonder why this transfer isn't indicated on their respective timetables. 

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9 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

The only people that make that connection are the HS/JHS students that don't feel like back tracking to Jamaica just to get to Rosedale or Far Rockaway. I wonder why this transfer isn't indicated on their respective timetables. 

The routes don't actually meet, so it might not be programed as a valid transfer. There are other locations where "walking transfers" are allowed, so the walk from 145th Road to 147th Avenue could easily be added to that list.

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To really classify this. The Q77 is the Brooklyn version of the B47 and other several Brooklyn routes that suffer with bunching of buses and delays. Extending the route to 147th Avenue makes things worse. As others eluded that 222nd street stop with the Q111/114 does a better job than having the Q77 extend. 

There’s no market for an extension to 147th Avenue. If you would of said extend to Green Acres Mall, than I’d say there is a decent market for that. There is no Hillside Avenue variant of buses heading or terminating at Green Acres.

That’s a market that the (NYCT) needs to tap. But also Green Acres is under the same category as Kings Plaza. Complete dump, however there’s tons of improvement on the outside portion of the mall with new stores. 

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19 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

To really classify this. The Q77 is the Brooklyn version of the B47 and other several Brooklyn routes that suffer with bunching of buses and delays. Extending the route to 147th Avenue makes things worse. As others eluded that 222nd street stop with the Q111/114 does a better job than having the Q77 extend. 

There’s no market for an extension to 147th Avenue. If you would of said extend to Green Acres Mall, than I’d say there is a decent market for that. There is no Hillside Avenue variant of buses heading or terminating at Green Acres.

That’s a market that the (NYCT) needs to tap. But also Green Acres is under the same category as Kings Plaza. Complete dump, however there’s tons of improvement on the outside portion of the mall with new stores. 

It's a dump, but that doesn't mean that people don't go there. Most of that mall's catchment is probably SE Queens anyways.

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10 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

It's a dump, but that doesn't mean that people don't go there. Most of that mall's catchment is probably SE Queens anyways.

I’d say parts of Nassau that uses Green Acres Valley Stream, Lawrence, Lynbrook , and whatever is by Sunrise Highway. However, most go to Roosevelt Field Mall. 

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1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

I’d say parts of Nassau that uses Green Acres Valley Stream, Lawrence, Lynbrook , and whatever is by Sunrise Highway. However, most go to Roosevelt Field Mall. 

People out in Far Rockaway frequent Green Acres as well - so much so that they used to run dollar vans b/w the two points..... If the van drivers still run out there from Far Rock', I wouldn't know..... But you are correct about RFM - it's very popular amongst SE Queens patrons.....

A good comparison to RFM is QCM; in the sense that there are a wide array of Queens patrons that venture from all over (the borough) to head to those 2 malls.... Nobody really's heading out to Green Acres like that, from all over anymore (Kings Plaza is in this same exact boat).....

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21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

People out in Far Rockaway frequent Green Acres as well - so much so that they used to run dollar vans b/w the two points..... If the van drivers still run out there from Far Rock', I wouldn't know..... But you are correct about RFM - it's very popular amongst SE Queens patrons.....

A good comparison to RFM is QCM; in the sense that there are a wide array of Queens patrons that venture from all over (the borough) to head to those 2 malls.... Nobody really's heading out to Green Acres like that, from all over anymore (Kings Plaza is in this same exact boat).....

Yes, I used to remember that van service between Far Rock and Green Acres via Lawrence and Peninsula Boulevard into Far Rockaway. 

Also, Yes RFM and QCM are better frequent than the latter 2. I frequent more RFM than QCM b/c of parking. That’s the downfall. 

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On 6/14/2018 at 7:21 AM, Future ENY OP said:

To really classify this. The Q77 is the Brooklyn version of the B47 and other several Brooklyn routes that suffer with bunching of buses and delays. Extending the route to 147th Avenue makes things worse. As others eluded that 222nd street stop with the Q111/114 does a better job than having the Q77 extend. 

There’s no market for an extension to 147th Avenue. If you would of said extend to Green Acres Mall, than I’d say there is a decent market for that. There is no Hillside Avenue variant of buses heading or terminating at Green Acres.

That’s a market that the (NYCT) needs to tap. But also Green Acres is under the same category as Kings Plaza. Complete dump, however there’s tons of improvement on the outside portion of the mall with new stores. 

 

What about the Five Towns shopping center area, although that may be suffering now since K-Mart is closing at that mall?

As for Green Acres and Kings Plaza, since both malls were sold to Macerich, there has been great improvement at both malls, except at the Macy's at Kings Plaza (Macy's was a co-developer of Kings Plaza along with Alexander's).

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16 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

 

What about the Five Towns shopping center area, although that may be suffering now since K-Mart is closing at that mall?

As for Green Acres and Kings Plaza, since both malls were sold to Macerich, there has been great improvement at both malls, except at the Macy's at Kings Plaza (Macy's was a co-developer of Kings Plaza along with Alexander's).

Macerich also has property at Queens Center???

Simon properties are more attractive and they feature more stores.

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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Towns......

Five Laughs is the reason Green Acres gained popularity & Green Acres (and Sunrise mall) having fell off is the reason RFM continues to gain more popularity....

To me, it's just crazy to hear/read all this about a Q77 extension to [147th or to Green Acres], right along w/ a Q27 extension to [Merrick blvd or to Green Acres]....

 

3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Macerich also has property at Queens Center???

Simon properties are more attractive and they feature more stores.

Yeah, right along with Cross County & Atlas Park....

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10 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

Five Towns been dead since Pathmark (now Stop and Shop) left. Only the Source and Broadway are worse

Broadway Mall/Broadway Commons did a complete 180; it's to the point where you have some folks saying it's better than RFM now.... I've passed by it sometime last year & the lots were full of cars, with traffic pouring in/out of the place... Couldn't explain it & I couldn't tell you what they've done to the place (outside of being externally more appealing), but it's not the same dying mall like it was in, say, back in 2008 or so.... The situation wasn't as drastic/stark as Nanuet Mall - now called the shops at Nanuet (Broadway mall never got that bad), but still a hell of a turnaround....

The Source however, still same old shit.... Last I heard, there were plans to demolish the place.... All the action in the immediate area is at Westbury Plaza right next door.....

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On 6/16/2018 at 7:58 PM, B35 via Church said:

Broadway Mall/Broadway Commons did a complete 180; it's to the point where you have some folks saying it's better than RFM now.... I've passed by it sometime last year & the lots were full of cars, with traffic pouring in/out of the place... Couldn't explain it & I couldn't tell you what they've done to the place (outside of being externally more appealing), but it's not the same dying mall like it was in, say, back in 2008 or so.... The situation wasn't as drastic/stark as Nanuet Mall - now called the shops at Nanuet (Broadway mall never got that bad), but still a hell of a turnaround....

The Source however, still same old shit.... Last I heard, there were plans to demolish the place.... All the action in the immediate area is at Westbury Plaza right next door.....

Last time I was there was 2010, the only thing worth a damn there is Children's Place and Old Navy. Bay Harbor is crap too

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There were quite a few times that I wished the Q27 connected to the Q5. Both run more frequently than the crappy Q77, and it would have more direct than going to Jamaica for a transfer or even transferring to the infrequent Q77 which is not timed to connect to the Q27 THEN connect to the Q5 or Q85 and vice versa. I've also made bus trips to Far Rockaway and a connection to/from the Q27 or Q77 would have been better than going all the way up Guy R Brewer. I've done the n1 to n32 trip as well. Obviously the Q113 is much quicker.

The lack of connectivity is part of the reason no one uses the buses anymore and the outer ends are really light. A simple 10-15 min drive is over an hour because you have to take a bus to Jamaica and transfer/backtrack to get anywhere east of Jamaica. Even if I wanted to go to Bell Blvd in Bayside to go to Unos or something would be Journey because the Q27 doesn't even go up to Northern Blvd, so you have to walk up from from 48th Ave or wait for a Q31 on 30 min headway. 

The argument I've been seeing is "there is no market" but actually now Uber/Lyft says try again.

As a matter of fact, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Queens bus service overhaul. 

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4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

There were quite a few times that I wished the Q27 connected to the Q5. Both run more frequently than the crappy Q77, and it would have more direct than going to Jamaica for a transfer or even transferring to the infrequent Q77 which is not timed to connect to the Q27 THEN connect to the Q5 or Q85 and vice versa. I've also made bus trips to Far Rockaway and a connection to/from the Q27 or Q77 would have been better than going all the way up Guy R Brewer. I've done the n1 to n32 trip as well. Obviously the Q113 is much quicker.

The lack of connectivity is part of the reason no one uses the buses anymore and the outer ends are really light. A simple 10-15 min drive is over an hour because you have to take a bus to Jamaica and transfer/backtrack to get anywhere east of Jamaica. Even if I wanted to go to Bell Blvd in Bayside to go to Unos or something would be Journey because the Q27 doesn't even go up to Northern Blvd, so you have to walk up from from 48th Ave or wait for a Q31 on 30 min headway. 

The argument I've been seeing is "there is no market" but actually now Uber/Lyft says try again.

As a matter of fact, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Queens bus service overhaul. 

You know how many Lyfts it takes to even remotely fill a bus line?

The nice thing about Lyft is that it is door to door. No bus is ever going to beat that, that's why there hasn't been bus service running all the way from Flushing to QCC and then down to the Q5.

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On 6/10/2018 at 12:44 PM, B35 via Church said:

Can't say that I can, no.....

Hell, a B71 extension to Lower Manhattan has been on Brooklyn CB6's table for years, before the dawn of this decade.... Just look at all those B71's currently in existence after the fact :(

--------------------

Anyway:

Whatever amount of money that would end up going towards any Q77 extension would be much better off being spent improving service elsewhere in this city.

*slow clap on the putting green*

IDK how long I've been making this very point on here...

Didn't there use to be a Brooklyn bus that ran from Park Row over the bridge?

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44 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Didn't there use to be a Brooklyn bus that ran from Park Row over the bridge?

Yeah, the B51.... Ran from Downtown Brooklyn (Smith/Fulton... where the current B61 & B65 terminates) to Park Row...

29 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

B51?

Yup.

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On 6/26/2018 at 2:04 AM, bobtehpanda said:

You know how many Lyfts it takes to even remotely fill a bus line?

The nice thing about Lyft is that it is door to door. No bus is ever going to beat that, that's why there hasn't been bus service running all the way from Flushing to QCC and then down to the Q5.

Open up the possibilities. Perhaps if the Q77 connected with the Q113 more riders would shop at or work at Costco (for example) or something. When a bus network fails to allow simple connections for easier/quicker travel, then somehow is alarmed that ridership is severely dropping in favor for other means of transportation, it's interesting to see. 

Look at the n43 on NICE. The N45 went from Roosevelt field, served NCC went down Uniondale Ave, and then over to Merrick LIRR Station.

NICE (Long Island Bus at the time) created the N43 to serve Roosevelt Field, NCC, Undiondale Ave, but then continue down to Freeport LIRR Station (on 45 min headway initially) and it immediately surpassed N45 ridership. The N45 has been eliminated since then.

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