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Deucey

655am; Ferry leaves at 7. What does the S52 driver do at Bay/Slosson?

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On 7/4/2018 at 10:10 AM, SevenEleven said:

"Your friendly West Indian." Jeez, you still remember that? Lol. That was soooo many years ago!

I've got the memory of an elephant!! :lol:

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On 7/4/2018 at 10:10 AM, SevenEleven said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 "Your friendly West Indian." Jeez, you still remember that? Lol. That was soooo many years ago!

That sounds like a good story...

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Can we bring this back? I wanna talk about a few AM trips that are horribly scheduled with catching the ferry. You have a shit load of trips that are scheduled to arrive one minute before or one minute after the ferry is supposed to depart. You even have trips that are scheduled to arrive at the exact time the ferry is supposed to leave. 

I do the local bus to ferry commute in the morning and I need the bus to arrive two minutes before the ferry terminal doors close in order to catch the boat. For example, catching the 8am ferry, I need to be getting off the bus at 7:58 (Ramp A is the longest distance from the terminal) in order to efficiently catch the boat without breaking a sweat. 

Rush hour should really have 2 buses timed for each ferry, but when the ferry is running every 3 mins. Why are buses scheduled to arrive at the time of departure or one minute before or after? 

I hope this is something that is truly taken into consideration with the local bus redesign. And buses should be allowed to run 3 minutes early. Between 3 mins early and 5 minutes late is considered on time to me with certain traffic conditions. 

This summer pick has been extremely light in terms of crowds, and B/Os are regularly getting to the terminal 5-6 mins early with any problems. So I don't understand how being 2-3 minutes early is a problem. I can understand more than 5 minutes but 2-3 minutes is ridiculous. 

You would think there would be some grace from the dispatchers knowing how many people transfer to the ferry in the morning...who are trying to get to work on time. 

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26 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Can we bring this back? I wanna talk about a few AM trips that are horribly scheduled with catching the ferry. You have a shit load of trips that are scheduled to arrive one minute before or one minute after the ferry is supposed to depart. You even have trips that are scheduled to arrive at the exact time the ferry is supposed to leave. 

I do the local bus to ferry commute in the morning and I need the bus to arrive two minutes before the ferry terminal doors close in order to catch the boat. For example, catching the 8am ferry, I need to be getting off the bus at 7:58 (Ramp A is the longest distance from the terminal) in order to efficiently catch the boat without breaking a sweat. 

Rush hour should really have 2 buses timed for each ferry, but when the ferry is running every 3 mins. Why are buses scheduled to arrive at the time of departure or one minute before or after? 

I hope this is something that is truly taken into consideration with the local bus redesign. And buses should be allowed to run 3 minutes early. Between 3 mins early and 5 minutes late is considered on time to me with certain traffic conditions. 

This summer pick has been extremely light in terms of crowds, and B/Os are regularly getting to the terminal 5-6 mins early with any problems. So I don't understand how being 2-3 minutes early is a problem. I can understand more than 5 minutes but 2-3 minutes is ridiculous. 

You would think there would be some grace from the dispatchers knowing how many people transfer to the ferry in the morning...who are trying to get to work on time. 

3 or 30 minutes?

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Can we bring this back? I wanna talk about a few AM trips that are horribly scheduled with catching the ferry. You have a shit load of trips that are scheduled to arrive one minute before or one minute after the ferry is supposed to depart. You even have trips that are scheduled to arrive at the exact time the ferry is supposed to leave. 

I do the local bus to ferry commute in the morning and I need the bus to arrive two minutes before the ferry terminal doors close in order to catch the boat. For example, catching the 8am ferry, I need to be getting off the bus at 7:58 (Ramp A is the longest distance from the terminal) in order to efficiently catch the boat without breaking a sweat. 

Rush hour should really have 2 buses timed for each ferry, but when the ferry is running every 3 mins. Why are buses scheduled to arrive at the time of departure or one minute before or after? 

I hope this is something that is truly taken into consideration with the local bus redesign. And buses should be allowed to run 3 minutes early. Between 3 mins early and 5 minutes late is considered on time to me with certain traffic conditions. 

This summer pick has been extremely light in terms of crowds, and B/Os are regularly getting to the terminal 5-6 mins early with any problems. So I don't understand how being 2-3 minutes early is a problem. I can understand more than 5 minutes but 2-3 minutes is ridiculous. 

You would think there would be some grace from the dispatchers knowing how many people transfer to the ferry in the morning...who are trying to get to work on time. 

With all of the reliability issues and problems catching the boat, that’s exactly why I gave up on the ferry, and switched to the express bus permanently. I actually cursed out one driver. I just lost it. This was many years ago. I was down from college. S48 comes strolling in late, but still with time to catch the boat. Now I can see us making every stop and she is waiting waiting waiting. That’s when I lost it and started yelling from the back of the bus. I was furious. At that time I was paid hourly since it was a job I workes during  my college breaks, so arriving late meant losing money. Then when I started working professionally, I got sick of just missing the boat or the bus being delayed, and leaving earlier didn’t matter. The situation just worsened... Poor service... The S98 was a disaster in the morning and I got sick of it. Switched to the express bus for a week, and said that’s it. I’m never going back!!

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

With all of the reliability issues and problems catching the boat, that’s exactly why I gave up on the ferry, and switched to the express bus permanently. I actually cursed out one driver. I just lost it. This was many years ago. I was down from college. S48 comes strolling in late, but still with time to catch the boat. Now I can see us making every stop and she is waiting waiting waiting. That’s when I lost it and started yelling from the back of the bus. I was furious. At that time I was paid hourly since it was a job I worked during my college breaks, so arriving late meant losing money. Then when I started working professionally, I got sick of just missing the boat or the bus being delayed, and leaving earlier didn’t matter. The situation just worsened... Poor service... The S98 was a disaster in the morning and I got sick of it. Switched to the express bus for a week, and said that’s it. I’m never going back!!

On weekends it's worse. If you get on a bus that's due at the ferry 3-5 minutes before the ferry leaves, forget it. 9/10 times the bus is late and you will just miss the ferry, meaning another half-hour wait for the next one. That's why I enjoy the express bus. You can get to Downtown Manhattan form Port Richmond in 45 minutes to an hour while the Ferry, it takes an hour and a half.

Edited by Lil 57
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12 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

On weekends it's worse. If you get on a bus that's due at the ferry 3-5 minutes before the Ferry leaves, forget it. 9/10 times the bus is late and you will just miss the ferry, meaning another half-hour wait for the next one. That's why I enjoy the express bus. You can get to Downtown Manhattan form Port Richmond in 45 minutes to an hour while the Ferry, it takes an hour and a half.

This right here!! Weekend service sucks because half the bus doesn't pay so its twice as crowded stopping at every stop and running 5-10 mins late. And then the drivers are so fed up with local riders that they don't even care about making connections in which I can't be mad about at that time. After 11am on weekends service turns into straight shit. That's why on weekends I only do the express if I'm heading to the city or S79 going to Brooklyn. Sheesh even during the midday on weekdays the bus to the ferry is unreliable. 

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5 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

This right here!! Weekend service sucks because half the bus doesn't pay so its twice as crowded stopping at every stop and running 5-10 mins late. And then the drivers are so fed up with local riders that they don't even care about making connections in which I can't be mad about at that time. After 11am on weekends service turns into straight shit. That's why on weekends I only do the express if I'm heading to the city or S79 going to Brooklyn. Sheesh even during the midday on weekdays the bus to the ferry is unreliable. 

Maybe if people started to pay the fare, the B/O's would actually care about making the ferry. I've heard of cops pulling people off the bus at the ferry if they didn't pay the fare but no where else on the Island. And since it's summer more kids aren't going to pay the fare because they don't have Student Cards. The local B/O's have to be like the express B/O's, "pay your fare or get out!" And the express B/O's don't even have protection like the locals do.

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I had a S78 last Sunday that was like 5 minutes late already when I got it at Jefferson Avenue and it got worse as it went down the line cause this one woman kept arguing with the driver about how OMNY was denying her phone and the damn bus was slammed with people. So I thought we were surely missing the ferry this time.

Then all of the sudden, after we get to Broad and Canal the dude flies like a speed demon the rest of the way to the ferry and we end up getting there with two minutes to spare.

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26 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I had a S78 last Sunday that was like 5 minutes late already when I got it at Jefferson Avenue and it got worse as it went down the line cause this one woman kept arguing with the driver about how OMNY was denying her phone and the damn bus was slammed with people. So I thought we were surely missing the ferry this time.

Then all of the sudden, after we get to Broad and Canal the dude flies like a speed demon the rest of the way to the ferry and we end up getting there with two minutes to spare.

That's a vet that can move through the bullshit 🤣

But in all seriousness, a part of me wants the local routes timed perfectly with the ferry, whereas a part of me wants to say F the local bus because of all the bs. 

 

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The buses should depart 5-10 minutes earlier to allow a leeway with the connecting ferry.

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4 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Can we bring this back? I wanna talk about a few AM trips that are horribly scheduled with catching the ferry. You have a shit load of trips that are scheduled to arrive one minute before or one minute after the ferry is supposed to depart. You even have trips that are scheduled to arrive at the exact time the ferry is supposed to leave. 

I do the local bus to ferry commute in the morning and I need the bus to arrive two minutes before the ferry terminal doors close in order to catch the boat. For example, catching the 8am ferry, I need to be getting off the bus at 7:58 (Ramp A is the longest distance from the terminal) in order to efficiently catch the boat without breaking a sweat. 

Rush hour should really have 2 buses timed for each ferry, but when the ferry is running every 3 mins. Why are buses scheduled to arrive at the time of departure or one minute before or after? 

I hope this is something that is truly taken into consideration with the local bus redesign. And buses should be allowed to run 3 minutes early. Between 3 mins early and 5 minutes late is considered on time to me with certain traffic conditions. 

This summer pick has been extremely light in terms of crowds, and B/Os are regularly getting to the terminal 5-6 mins early with any problems. So I don't understand how being 2-3 minutes early is a problem. I can understand more than 5 minutes but 2-3 minutes is ridiculous. 

You would think there would be some grace from the dispatchers knowing how many people transfer to the ferry in the morning...who are trying to get to work on time. 

 

Maybe that bus is intended to catch the 8:15 boat with an allowance for lateness (or coffee).

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3 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

That's a vet that can move through the bullshit 🤣

But in all seriousness, a part of me wants the local routes timed perfectly with the ferry, whereas a part of me wants to say F the local bus because of all the bs. 

 

I want them all to arrive no later than 5 minutes before the ferry departs, since I’m tired of s52 drivers sitting at Slosson & Bay at 655 am because they get in trouble arriving before 7am.

Even better - eliminate that disciplinary since the ferry is a timed connection.

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6 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

On weekends it's worse. If you get on a bus that's due at the ferry 3-5 minutes before the ferry leaves, forget it. 9/10 times the bus is late and you will just miss the ferry, meaning another half-hour wait for the next one. That's why I enjoy the express bus. You can get to Downtown Manhattan form Port Richmond in 45 minutes to an hour while the Ferry, it takes an hour and a half.

 

6 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

This right here!! Weekend service sucks because half the bus doesn't pay so its twice as crowded stopping at every stop and running 5-10 mins late. And then the drivers are so fed up with local riders that they don't even care about making connections in which I can't be mad about at that time. After 11am on weekends service turns into straight shit. That's why on weekends I only do the express if I'm heading to the city or S79 going to Brooklyn. Sheesh even during the midday on weekdays the bus to the ferry is unreliable. 

Weekend local bus service went to shit years ago. Then you would try to get an earlier bus to make sure you get the ferry. What did the (MTA) do? Cut that bus... They don’t make it easy that’s for sure. Switched to the express bus and never looked back. 

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Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

Weekend local bus service went to shit years ago. Then you would try to get an earlier bus to make sure you get the ferry. What did the (MTA) do? Cut that bus... They don’t make it easy that’s for sure. Switched to the express bus and never looked back. 

But then again with EVERYONE driving on the weekends the Gowanus and BQE are a disaster. There's always a friggin accident and then with all the congestion in the city the subway is the best bet. If the local bus is scheduled to get to the ferry 10 mins before and i catch that ferry, then it's worth the commute. The thing is, consistency.

 

I'm gonna keep saying it until people come to the realization. Bus service will not get better until drivers stop getting paid for being late. I'd rather a flat rate increase and no extra pay for being late than being late and getting paid because then drivers will continue to f**k up service for more money. Also drivers should be allowed to run 2-3 minutes early. And should be allowed to pull into terminals 3-4 mins early (especially during rush hours). 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

But then again with EVERYONE driving on the weekends the Gowanus and BQE are a disaster. There's always a friggin accident and then with all the congestion in the city the subway is the best bet. If the local bus is scheduled to get to the ferry 10 mins before and i catch that ferry, then it's worth the commute. The thing is, consistency.

 

I'm gonna keep saying it until people come to the realization. Bus service will not get better until drivers stop getting paid for being late. I'd rather a flat rate increase and no extra pay for being late than being late and getting paid because then drivers will continue to f**k up service for more money. Also drivers should be allowed to run 2-3 minutes early. And should be allowed to pull into terminals 3-4 mins early (especially during rush hours). 

That is a policy that is absurd and it is something I got into a heated debate about with the (MTA) and one of the head planners in my first meeting. The (MTA)’s attitude is, we don’t control traffic. I told them if a bus is at the terminal and the driver is there, there is NO reason why a bus should be starting 20 minutes late just so the driver can avoid being “early”. I have really been raising hell about this. The riding public wants RELIABLE, ON-TIME service, and while the people in my meeting acted like what I was requesting was absurd, surely they know the deal. They just try to act like they don’t. I also told them that they have no excuse now since they have BusTrek. If they are dispatching aggressively they can get those buses out on-time.  It’s a question of writing schedules that are realistic. The drivers should have enough layover time, and once that is over, that’s it. Start the bus and go, otherwise, the bus is 15-20 minutes late starting, and it NEVER gets back on schedule. Then you have the (MTA) further padding the schedules and the trips take longer and longer. NO NO NO NO NO NO... They now have a “slow driver” option under the list of complaints. I don’t want to hear that “safety first” nonsense. The old school drivers did BOTH... Operated safely AND drove the bus. Similar to the train situation with the unnecessary timers. Let bus operators DRIVE THE DAMN BUSES!!!

People are driving because getting around with public transit takes too long now, so more people are ditching the system where possible. I know numerous people that in the past would never drive into Manhattan. Now they do because they are fed up with the endless delays with service (both bus and train).

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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27 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That is a policy that is absurd and it is something I got into a heated debate about with the (MTA) and one of the head planners in my first meeting. The (MTA)’s attitude is, we don’t control traffic. I told them if a bus is at the terminal and the driver is there, there is NO reason why a bus should be starting 20 minutes late just so the driver can avoid being “early”. I have really been raising hell about this. The riding public wants RELIABLE, ON-TIME service, and while the people in my meeting acted like what I was requesting was absurd, surely they know the deal. They just try to act like they don’t. I also told them that they have no excuse now since they have BusTrek. If they are dispatching aggressively they can get those buses out on-time.  It’s a question of writing schedules that are realistic. The drivers should have enough layover time, and once that is over, that’s it. Start the bus and go, otherwise, the bus is 15-20 minutes late starting, and it NEVER gets back on schedule. Then you have the (MTA) further padding the schedules and the trips take longer and longer. NO NO NO NO NO NO... They now have a “slow driver” option under the list of complaints. I don’t want to hear that “safety first” nonsense. The old school drivers did BOTH... Operated safely AND drove the bus. Similar to the train situation with the unnecessary timers. Let bus operators DRIVE THE DAMN BUSES!!!

People are driving because getting around with public transit takes too long now, so more people are ditching the system where possible. I know numerous people that in the past would never drive into Manhattan. Now they do because fhey are fed up with the endless delays with service (both bus and train).

Couldn't have said it any better. Until this is fixed, bus lanes, traffic signal priority, aint gonna help if homie is in the bus lane doing 10mph because of whatever excuse they like to throw out there. 

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The ferry schedule doesn't really change, yet somehow all the MTA routes serving it can't be coordinated?

Jeez, in little podunk University town of Ann Arbor (same with Ypsilanti down the road), buses arrive/depart at prescribed times to allow customers to transfer between routes. (Go here and view the schedules.)

Always wondered why the MTA didn't somehow include ferry times in the schedules like on the S89. No "permission" needed, since the ferry is a NYC entity.

*DUH* Because then they could legit be called out because the buses never meet/pick-up the ferry.

NVM

/huge sarcasm (ICYMI)

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8 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Maybe if people started to pay the fare, the B/O's would actually care about making the ferry. I've heard of cops pulling people off the bus at the ferry if they didn't pay the fare but no where else on the Island. And since it's summer more kids aren't going to pay the fare because they don't have Student Cards. The local B/O's have to be like the express B/O's, "pay your fare or get out!" And the express B/O's don't even have protection like the locals do.

I'm sure the B/O's would waste more time arguing with non-paying customers to get off then to just let them on. 

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20 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Can we bring this back? I wanna talk about a few AM trips that are horribly scheduled with catching the ferry. You have a shit load of trips that are scheduled to arrive one minute before or one minute after the ferry is supposed to depart. You even have trips that are scheduled to arrive at the exact time the ferry is supposed to leave. 

I do the local bus to ferry commute in the morning and I need the bus to arrive two minutes before the ferry terminal doors close in order to catch the boat. For example, catching the 8am ferry, I need to be getting off the bus at 7:58 (Ramp A is the longest distance from the terminal) in order to efficiently catch the boat without breaking a sweat. 

Rush hour should really have 2 buses timed for each ferry, but when the ferry is running every 3 mins. Why are buses scheduled to arrive at the time of departure or one minute before or after? 

I hope this is something that is truly taken into consideration with the local bus redesign. And buses should be allowed to run 3 minutes early. Between 3 mins early and 5 minutes late is considered on time to me with certain traffic conditions. 

This summer pick has been extremely light in terms of crowds, and B/Os are regularly getting to the terminal 5-6 mins early with any problems. So I don't understand how being 2-3 minutes early is a problem. I can understand more than 5 minutes but 2-3 minutes is ridiculous. 

You would think there would be some grace from the dispatchers knowing how many people transfer to the ferry in the morning...who are trying to get to work on time. 

If the runtimes are too long, they should be shortened. It's no secret that buses are generally able to complete their trips quicker in the summer. 

That being said, I would agree past a certain point (e.g. Jewett on the Victory Blvd routes, since if you miss one bus, there's likely another bus of a different route coming along shortly anyway). You can set the cutoff differently for each route for where they're allowed to run early (it doesn't necessarily have to be where more routes overlap, but it should be reasonably close to the ferry. e.g. Broadway on the S46/96 and S48/98). But the runtimes should be addressed where possible first, so a driver traveling at a quick pace is actually on schedule. 

Having that cutoff too early in the schedule basically means B/Os can do whatever they want, which can lead to bunching and so on, so you don't want to get carried away with that.

17 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

The buses should depart 5-10 minutes earlier to allow a leeway with the connecting ferry.

The problem is some routes are just too long and delay-prone. Take a long route like the S74: It could be scheduled to meet the 8am ferry, a quick driver gets your there in time for the 7:45am ferry, and a slow driver gets you there in time for a 8:15am ferry.

11 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

The ferry schedule doesn't really change, yet somehow all the MTA routes serving it can't be coordinated?

Jeez, in little podunk University town of Ann Arbor (same with Ypsilanti down the road), buses arrive/depart at prescribed times to allow customers to transfer between routes. (Go here and view the schedules.)

Always wondered why the MTA didn't somehow include ferry times in the schedules like on the S89. No "permission" needed, since the ferry is a NYC entity.

*DUH* Because then they could legit be called out because the buses never meet/pick-up the ferry.

NVM

/huge sarcasm (ICYMI)

Many routes run more frequently than the ferry (e.g. Every 8, 10, or 12 minutes when the ferry is every 15). Considering the headways aren't always a factor of 15, it's harder to do than you think (also, you don't want every single bus scheduled to arrive at exactly the same time...that'll cause backups getting into the ramps and people will be scrambling for their ferries anyway).

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2 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Many routes run more frequently than the ferry (e.g. Every 8, 10, or 12 minutes when the ferry is every 15). Considering the headways aren't always a factor of 15, it's harder to do than you think (also, you don't want every single bus scheduled to arrive at exactly the same time...that'll cause backups getting into the ramps and people will be scrambling for their ferries anyway).

True, but are the routes actually arriving to drop-off/pick-up at those scheduled times so that everything works like clockwork? Obviously not.

Having a "circulator" route similar to the Hudson Rail Link could relieve some of the issues, along with making the Limited routes truly limited from end-to-end (and operate in both directions during Peak). Local service would operate at all times, but wouldn't go directly to the Ferry during Peak, instead to the transfer areas for the circulator. (Also Limited routes would not pick-up/drop-off within a certain zone of the circulator coverage.) Oh, and throw in some artics on the Limited runs to help even out the loads, when necessary. (Circulator route could always be a free ride, if you already paid in the system.) You could get really wild and run this type of operation on weekends too.

Sound too pie-in-the-sky? Maybe. But not everyone on the Island is looking to get off it in the morning and return to it in the afternoon. (Look at Metro North reverse-commute numbers, as an example.) However, for those that do those travel patterns, give them a better alternative than what's available now.

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Posted (edited)

Prime example right here. This is the 7:40am S78 out of Bricktown, due at the ferry at 8:49am

Bus just gets to St George at 9:00am. People just missed the 9am ferry. 

Edit: At least he left the ferry right away at 9am and didn't take a personal. 

2j67hio.png

Edited by XcelsiorBoii4888
Update on bus status.

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On 7/6/2019 at 9:10 AM, Lil 57 said:

Maybe if people started to pay the fare, the B/O's would actually care about making the ferry. I've heard of cops pulling people off the bus at the ferry if they didn't pay the fare but no where else on the Island. And since it's summer more kids aren't going to pay the fare because they don't have Student Cards. The local B/O's have to be like the express B/O's, "pay your fare or get out!" And the express B/O's don't even have protection like the locals do.

Lmao, why would this matter? B/Os don't make commission (and before anyone is stupid enough to suggest that, it's a f**king terrible idea)

The B/Os job is to drive the bus and (ideally) to get to the destination in a safe, timely, and consistent manner.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Lmao, why would this matter? B/Os don't make commission (and before anyone is stupid enough to suggest that, it's a f**king terrible idea)

The B/Os job is to drive the bus and (ideally) to get to the destination in a safe, timely, and consistent manner.

Fine, then service must be cut. The (MTA)looses over $200 million dollars each year because some people don't want to pay the fare. They pay or get out. If they don't get out then the cops are called and they handle it. The B/O just has to say "I'm not moving this bus until you pay the fare" and they would either pay or forced out by the cops/riders. Either that or the (MTA) punishes high fare beating routes with cuts and when they start to pay, then the service will be returned to normal levels.

People need to learn that the (MTA) doesn't provide service for free. If no action is taken, people will just keep on moving. I know in Russia, buses have turnstiles on them to combat farebeating.

Edited by Lil 57

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