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Union Tpke

6th Avenue L stop to get elevators

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/mta-postpones-platform-safety-pilot-program-1530033174

I happened to meet someone by chance on Friday who told me about the project. I can't say too much about it, but it is being rushed after Byford told people to examine the project. It will be hard to install elevators in this location. They might only do work on the Canarsie platforms initially, with further elevators later. I hope they found a better plan that the initial plan that would have led to a situation like Lex/59th to Lex/63rd but for those needing elevators. I can't say much more.

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Under the terms, construction of a pair of lifts at Sixth Ave. must start on or before Dec. 31, 2020, and be completed and fully operational on or before Dec. 31, 2022. In addition, two more Americans With Disabilities Act-compatible elevators must be added at the Sixth Ave. and 14th St. station by 2024 to connect to the F train there.

http://thevillager.com/2018/06/21/elevators-are-a-win-but-l-train-shutdown-fight-still-on-track/

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What's funny is that I was at the station last week waiting for an (L) , and thought installing elevators was a good idea.

Hopefully as part of the shutdown they do some waterproofing and replace the tile panels...

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5 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mta-postpones-platform-safety-pilot-program-1530033174

I happened to meet someone by chance on Friday who told me about the project. I can't say too much about it, but it is being rushed after Byford told people to examine the project. It will be hard to install elevators in this location. They might only do work on the Canarsie platforms initially, with further elevators later. I hope they found a better plan that the initial plan that would have led to a situation like Lex/59th to Lex/63rd but for those needing elevators. I can't say much more.

The question is: will NIMBYs bitch about it?

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Well that's a stupid question. Of course they will. After all, that is the New York way.

Seriously though, it's wonderful to see them better utilizing the shutdown to bring more visible benefits to riders. They'll be much more receptive to other long-term shutdowns, if necessary, as long as they have tangible results.

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Is there a way they can have one elevator go between the Mez and the (F) and (L) platforms? The stairs are on the southern end, but maybe they can put an Elevator in the same vicinity?

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2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Is there a way they can have one elevator go between the Mez and the (F) and (L) platforms? The stairs are on the southern end, but maybe they can put an Elevator in the same vicinity?

No. Not feasible.

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This is very welcome, but it's a shame that this comes at the expense of the PSD pilot program. We're really lagging behind other systems when it comes to the installation of PSDs, which have gone in the last twenty-or-so years from being a novelty item on flashy new metros and airport people movers to a pretty standard feature on European and Asian rapid transit systems. I know there are issues with full-system PSD rollout right now because of the difference between 60' and 75' cars on the B division, but the (L) has no such problem with rolling stock, and also has ATO (for precise stopping) and several busy stations where platforms often become safety hazards in normal rush hours, let alone when there are abnormal or unplanned gaps in service.

Considering some of the busier stations both on the (L) line (and in the system) are going to be closed for the shutdown - Bedford, First, Union Square - there's really no reason not to trial PSDs. And until we catch up to our subway system contemporaries on this issue, we're going to see the same stream of delays caused by people and things entering the tracks - preventable delays that we could have had the solution to.

It's great that Transit are using this opportunity to correct their abysmal accessibility situation, but it's really unfortunate - and an indictment of the way which we continue to treat subway improvements - that we can find neither the money nor the will to multitask on two relatively simple capital projects that would take the NYC subway truly up to the standards of modern rapid transit.

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1 hour ago, LGA Link N train said:

Coming to think of it, out of the 472 Stations we have, which ones are feasible to have elevators and which ones are not (Besides the union Square (4)(5)(6) platfforms and Broadway Junction???

 

The (MTA) has said the structure at Smith-9th Streets cannot support elevators.

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1 hour ago, LGA Link N train said:

Coming to think of it, out of the 472 Stations we have, which ones are feasible to have elevators and which ones are not (Besides the union Square (4)(5)(6) platfforms and Broadway Junction???

 

This is being studied right now.

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On 6/27/2018 at 6:04 PM, Union Tpke said:

No. Not feasible.

Care to elaborate? I'm pretty sure the (L) platform runs directly under the (F)(M) one. Is the (B)(D) or Path in the way?

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51 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

Care to elaborate? I'm pretty sure the (L) platform runs directly under the (F)(M) one. Is the (B)(D) or Path in the way?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1r7-iWWvK0AbWXA4tMKdJpQiHDiJNr2J2 

Image courtesy of Vanshnookenraggen. I added a line in which the PATH would be located. So therefore @Union Tpke has a point
 

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1 hour ago, kosciusko said:

Care to elaborate? I'm pretty sure the (L) platform runs directly under the (F)(M) one. Is the (B)(D) or Path in the way?

Does it run directly above? IIRC the stairs cuts into the southern wall then you walk down (Outward) a few feet and then split left or right for the (L) Plus to access the (F) wouldn't you need two elevator shafts being the station is split?  Uptown and Downtown for riders to get from the (F) to the (L) ?

Edited by RailRunRob
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3 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Does it run directly above? IIRC the stairs cuts into the southern wall then you walk down or out a few feet and then split left or right for the (L) Plus to access the (F) wouldn't you need to have two elevator shafts being the station is split? 

Yes - you'd need two shafts, as the (F)(M) don't share one platform for both directions.

To elaborate on the station layout, the (L) is the deepest platform; the (F)(M) are directly above and perpendicular to the (L), with the PATH tracks in between the IND locals. The  (B)(D) tracks, which were added much later, run below the (L) platform.

Edited by officiallyliam
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5 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

Yes - you'd need two shafts, as the (F)(M) don't share one platform for both directions.

To elaborate on the station layout, the (L) is the deepest platform; the (F)(M) are directly above and perpendicular to the (L), with the PATH tracks in between the IND locals. The  (B)(D) tracks, which were added much later, run below the (L) platform.

Right the (L)  predates both the 6th local and express tracks. But the PATH (H&M) was already there which caused the BMT to dig deeper to clear the PATH tracks.  The PATH station and track were 1st.In the vicinity. Complexity! 

Edited by RailRunRob
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So I guess my question at this point is how do you put an elevator there for the (L) at 6th ave. Do they pick a side of the street on 6th Ave and enter via the (F) and Path mezzanine and directly dig to Canarsie platform level? The entrances on 14th are already further back from 6th Ave kinda makes sense being that might have been (L) Entrances originally anyway before 6th Ave service. You should be able to hit the Canarsie platform them there. Unification happened right around the time the 6th ave line opened. I wonder what the original Canarsie Configuration looked like.. was it connected before the opening of the 6th Ave and if not how long after. 

Edited by RailRunRob
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On 6/26/2018 at 5:18 PM, Union Tpke said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mta-postpones-platform-safety-pilot-program-1530033174

I happened to meet someone by chance on Friday who told me about the project. I can't say too much about it, but it is being rushed after Byford told people to examine the project. It will be hard to install elevators in this location. They might only do work on the Canarsie platforms initially, with further elevators later. I hope they found a better plan that the initial plan that would have led to a situation like Lex/59th to Lex/63rd but for those needing elevators. I can't say much more.

 

1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

So I guess my question at this point is how do you put an elevator there for the (L) at 6th ave. Do they pick a side of the street on 6th Ave and enter via the (F) and Path mezzanine and directly dig to Canarsie platform level? The entrances on 14th are already further back from 6th Ave kinda makes sense being that might have been (L) Entrances originally anyway before 6th Ave service. You should be able to hit the Canarsie platform them there. Unification happened right around the time the 6th ave line opened. I wonder what the original Canarsie Configuration looked like.. was it connected before the opening of the 6th Ave and if not how long after. 

HINT

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On 6/27/2018 at 7:22 PM, officiallyliam said:

This is very welcome, but it's a shame that this comes at the expense of the PSD pilot program. We're really lagging behind other systems when it comes to the installation of PSDs, which have gone in the last twenty-or-so years from being a novelty item on flashy new metros and airport people movers to a pretty standard feature on European and Asian rapid transit systems. I know there are issues with full-system PSD rollout right now because of the difference between 60' and 75' cars on the B division, but the (L) has no such problem with rolling stock, and also has ATO (for precise stopping) and several busy stations where platforms often become safety hazards in normal rush hours, let alone when there are abnormal or unplanned gaps in service.

Considering some of the busier stations both on the (L) line (and in the system) are going to be closed for the shutdown - Bedford, First, Union Square - there's really no reason not to trial PSDs. And until we catch up to our subway system contemporaries on this issue, we're going to see the same stream of delays caused by people and things entering the tracks - preventable delays that we could have had the solution to.

It's great that Transit are using this opportunity to correct their abysmal accessibility situation, but it's really unfortunate - and an indictment of the way which we continue to treat subway improvements - that we can find neither the money nor the will to multitask on two relatively simple capital projects that would take the NYC subway truly up to the standards of modern rapid transit.

 

Well psds won't work unless you have one type of train, I wonder why they pulled the psds project

Edited by BreeddekalbL

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On 6/28/2018 at 7:24 PM, officiallyliam said:

Yes - you'd need two shafts, as the (F)(M) don't share one platform for both directions.

To elaborate on the station layout, the (L) is the deepest platform; the (F)(M) are directly above and perpendicular to the (L), with the PATH tracks in between the IND locals. The  (B)(D) tracks, which were added much later, run below the (L) platform.

One can dream… Perhaps they could dig a little deeper for each shaft for the possible expansion of the station to the lower level 6 Avenue express tracks. That those using the (L) would get half the amount of service because of a lack of platforms for a pair of tracks probably contributes to overcrowding on the 6 Avenue locals.

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