A Few questions about Buses

[R32 3348]

1. How do I tell a NOVABus RTS from a TMC RTS?

 

2. Is an RTS delivered in 1990 any different from one delivered in 1993? Or is it just like comparing a 1975 R46 and a 1978 R46?

 

3. Why does everyone hate hybrids? Also, why does everyone hate low-floor buses? Is it the "riding in a bathtub" experience?

 

4. Is the O7NG any better than a standard O7?

 

5. What is the difference between CNG and hybrid Electric buses? Is one more efficient than another?

 

6. Which buses are being retired by the O7NG, the 1990 RTSs?

[Acela Express]

3. Why does everyone hate hybrids? Also, why does everyone hate low-floor buses? Is it the "riding in a bathtub" experience?

 

5. What is the difference between CNG and hybrid Electric buses? Is one more efficient than another?

3A. I don't hate the Hybrids. And low-floors suck during rush-hour.

 

5A. MTAs hybrids are diesel-electric. You can Google to see the difference between Hybrid diesel-electric & CNG vehicles.

[UlmerPark B6]

1. How do I tell a NOVABus RTS from a TMC RTS?

 

2. Is an RTS delivered in 1990 any different from one delivered in 1993? Or is it just like comparing a 1975 R46 and a 1978 R46?

 

3. Why does everyone hate hybrids? Also, why does everyone hate low-floor buses? Is it the "riding in a bathtub" experience?

 

4. Is the O7NG any better than a standard O7?

 

5. What is the difference between CNG and hybrid Electric buses? Is one more efficient than another?

 

6. Which buses are being retired by the O7NG, the 1990 RTSs?

 

1. A) Numbers: Any # under 8703 are TMC. NovaBus are numbered 8704-9699. TMC have different interior than NovaBus. TMC bumby cross lines are shorter and their seats are usually sticky or have somekind of clear taping on them. NovaBus have either hard seats, soft seats (Suburban), and soft seats (Transit).

2) Well yes most 1990 RTS had scrolling signs and they still do (active buses only). Rarely do you see a 1993 have scroll signs.

3) Hybrids are most costly and they tend to have a nosier proplousion than diesel. Low-Floor buses are easier but less seats. You cna't stand on the higher part of the bus and some poeple just don't wanna walk up those 2 steps int he back.

4) The Orion NG interior is worse than a Standard. The seating arrangement by the is worse and less on the NG and the colors and pull rope are not popular. However the exterior looks way better than Standard. The back looks better and the tinted and frameless windows look nice.

5) CNG buses uses clean gas which means that it runs longer using clean-natural gas. The CNG compartment on the top of the bus is bigger than hybrid. It also costs more. Hybrids uses regular diesel but runs longer with its battery. The compartment is smaller. I say both are equal. They are both great but CNG just cost too much.

6) The is replacing the 1990-1993 RTS and 1990-1993 Orion 5. The Orion set 611-630 are curently being replaced and the some TMC RTS. But it is really just adding more buses to fleet.

[nycbusfan]

1. How do I tell a NOVABus RTS from a TMC RTS?

 

2. Is an RTS delivered in 1990 any different from one delivered in 1993? Or is it just like comparing a 1975 R46 and a 1978 R46?

 

3. Why does everyone hate hybrids? Also, why does everyone hate low-floor buses? Is it the "riding in a bathtub" experience?

 

4. Is the O7NG any better than a standard O7?

 

5. What is the difference between CNG and hybrid Electric buses? Is one more efficient than another?

 

6. Which buses are being retired by the O7NG, the 1990 RTSs?

 

1. TMC RTS buses were built from 1990-94 the numbers of the buses are.

 

1990 TMC RTS:

8000-8396

 

1993 TMC RTS:

8401-8566

 

1994 TMC RTS:

8600-8703

1172-1196 (ex-Jamaica Bus Lines)

5898-5937 (ex-Green Bus Lines)

5988-5999 (ex-Jamaica Bus Lines)

7174-7213 (ex-Triboro Coach Corp)

9700-9795 (ex-Queens Surface)

 

2.The 1990 RTS was the last RTS to have the "Porkchop" window which is a small triangular shaped window behind the last window. All RTS buses built after 1993 did not have that window.

 

3.

 

A)I don't personally hate hybrids, but many hate them because they have a very boxy shape.

 

B)The main problem with low floor buses is that when the buses fills up, riders often don't like moving up the steps in the back.

 

4.The Orion VII NG has many new features that previous models didn't have. They also have a more up to date look.

 

5.CNG is the type of fuel but in the bus. Hybrids run on a combination of Diesel and Electric.

 

6.The 1990-93 RTS buses and 1993 Orion V's. Some 1994 RTS buses and 1995 Orion V's may also be retired.

[RokuSix]

Great thread. I had those exact same questions.

 

But yet I have another: Didn't the MTA predict that people would dislike those two extra steps in the back? Or at least do a bit of studying?

[trainfan22]

3)Because the inside of the bus is too small, a few weeks ago i hit my head on the mirror near the back door while i was trying to sit at the seat behind the back door. Also not enough leg room for tall people, engine is too loud, can't go fast uphill, ugly(Looks like a tissuebox) and last by not least, these buses replace 6V92 GMC and TMC RTS's which much cooler and more fun to ride than hybrids. Btw its not the hybrid tech that is hated, its the Orion VII themselves that are hated, not the hybrid tech that they use. The CNG VII's and C40LF get just as much hate! and those are CNG buses.

 

6)1990 TMC RTS and 1993 Orion V's

[Q25toJamaica]

1. How do I tell a NOVABus RTS from a TMC RTS?

 

2. Is an RTS delivered in 1990 any different from one delivered in 1993? Or is it just like comparing a 1975 R46 and a 1978 R46?

 

3. Why does everyone hate hybrids? Also, why does everyone hate low-floor buses? Is it the "riding in a bathtub" experience?

 

4. Is the O7NG any better than a standard O7?

 

5. What is the difference between CNG and hybrid Electric buses? Is one more efficient than another?

 

6. Which buses are being retired by the O7NG, the 1990 RTSs?

 

1. TMC is 8000-8704 in NYCT/MTAB, along with 1100s, 5900s, 9700s, and 7000s in Bus Company- Novas are 8750-9699, 4900-5124.

 

2. 1990 RTS had the triangle in the back

 

3. Engines they have, Cummins ISB and ISB-02 suck.

 

4. More up to date than the OG

 

5. CNG buses run on compressed natural gas (CNG), and hybrids run on diesel + electric.

 

6. 1990-91 RTS, 1993 V

[D.J.]

3. Why does everyone hate hybrids? Also, why does everyone hate low-floor buses? Is it the "riding in a bathtub" experience?

 

I love Hybrids, but I think that TA's should get more standard floor buses

SEPTA almost has an all low floor fleet

[R32 3348]

Thanks guys!

[R32 3348]

I have another question. What's the life expectancy of buses? On Subchat I read that the FRA allows money to be allocated for buses to retire every 12 years, though here buses are being retired every 15-18 years or so. So it is between 12-20 years (18-20 being for agencies that run their buses for longer, i.e. )? Also, I heard that 60 or so O7NG CNGs are going to LIB to replace some older buses, but if LIB has been merged with New York City/Bus, then wouldn't they be ordering new buses in the next few years instead of now?

[Guest Charles]

Currently, the oldest buses in the fleets are probably the 1990-91 TMC RTSs and the Orion 5s of Long Island Bus. I'm not sure how well the Orions are holding up but the RTSs can get really bad. Usually the life expectancy is somewhere between 15-20 years.

[trainfan22]

I have another question. What's the life expectancy of buses? On Subchat I read that the FRA allows money to be allocated for buses to retire every 12 years, though here buses are being retired every 15-18 years or so. So it is between 12-20 years (18-20 being for agencies that run their buses for longer, i.e. )? Also, I heard that 60 or so O7NG CNGs are going to LIB to replace some older buses, but if LIB has been merged with New York City/Bus, then wouldn't they be ordering new buses in the next few years instead of now?

 

It depends on how the bus is built and spec'd and maintained that dermineds the life span of a bus.

[R32 3348]

Ok thanks guys.

[JustLok]

To be EXACTLY specific, MTA Buses do not use diesel. It's a form of Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel in name, but it is more commonly known as clear kerosene.

 

Also, the Hybrids have shown little to no fuel savings over time. They take the same fill ups as diesel engines over the same trips and runs. The savings are fare too few.

 

The Hybrids' HybriDrive is very finicky. The highest source of all failures and stalls, TA is still clamoring over warranty with it.

 

The CNG's run hot, VERY hot. Their savings are more than diesel engines and about more than Hyrbrids. The downside is the slow acceleration and their very high maintenance, those two CNG tanks are under extreme PSI.

 

As for the life spans, Federal grants require 80% or so funding for a new bus if it replaces a bus that has a mininum 12yr service span. Also, Fed guidelines state buses are to be built around that 12yr span.

 

Of course you can squeeze longer, much longer service out of that 12yr. Just look at the old GBL and TCC RTS-04's that were running up to 2yrs ago. They were over 20+yrs old! Not the best of shape, but still chugging along. And look at TTC's buses, numerous are over 20yrs old and don't look or even feel like it.