Contactless payments

[RFIDSecur]

Hi,

 

With the MTA moving towards contactless payments, I wondered how much commuters rely upon it currently? Do you have 1 or more contactless cards for payment and whether you will use these or the MTA transit card solely for travelling?

 

I just wanted to get a feel for how much of an uptake Contactless has currently ?

 

If you are interested I have some figures on the uptake at London underground TFL system  http://content.tfl.gov.uk/contactless-top-line-figure.pdf

 

I'd be interested in your feedback.

 

 

[N6 Limited]

Interestingly enough, the only contactless cards I have are from other countries.

Oyster Card

Gautrain Card

Charlie Card (Ok, that's actually Boston)

I had about 2 or 3 contactless Credit/Debit Cards, but then they were replaced with chip & signature cards.

The only remaining contactless payments I could use with MTA services are via mobile payments. (Samsung Pay/Android Pay, etc )

I'd probably get the MTA contactless card so that I can use it on various services, just using a credit/debit card may not allow for weekly/monthly, or joint packages (Atlantic ticket), etc.

[EphraimB]

I really want to know how the contactless payment will work with transitChek and monthly passes.

[HenryB]

3 hours ago, EphraimB said:

I really want to know how the contactless payment will work with transitChek and monthly passes.

Load the data to the card.....

[N6 Limited]

On 7/26/2018 at 4:38 PM, N6 Limited said:

Interestingly enough, the only contactless cards I have are from other countries.

Oyster Card

Gautrain Card

Charlie Card (Ok, that's actually Boston)

I had about 2 or 3 contactless Credit/Debit Cards, but then they were replaced with chip & signature cards.

The only remaining contactless payments I could use with MTA services are via mobile payments. (Samsung Pay/Android Pay, etc )

I'd probably get the MTA contactless card so that I can use it on various services, just using a credit/debit card may not allow for weekly/monthly, or joint packages (Atlantic ticket), etc.

I have the Metro SmartTrip too, I guess i have more smartcards than i realized

[N6 Limited]

I just found a Marta Breeze card that I had, haha. Basically MTA is way behind.

[RFIDSecur]

Yes funny the things we collect along the way! Have you checked to see if you have any unused balances on the Cards N6 Limited? No doubt we will see more of this?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tfl-dormant-oyster-cards-money-stored-refund-reclaim-deposit-transport-for-london-a8424336.html

So in general the, in NYC there is not much take up or Contactless payments, for places like starbucks for example? 

If so do you think with the TFL type Oyster system being introduced into the MTA do you think it will lead to a boom in this form of payment spreading throughout NYC?

[N6 Limited]

I know for sure I have an unused balance on my Oyster Card and Guartrain Card. Whenever I go to London i just use or "top up" the card at Heathrow. My previous Oyster Card (that I lost on the way back to Heathrow a few trips ago) had like £5 on it, I wasn't pleased about that. Most of my cards probably have minimal balances, because you always add enough to get around but you can't really use up all

As for NYC, I see some people paying with their phones in stores (like Starbucks, etc), but I think an Oyster type system introduced into the MTA will boost that form of payment. It will get a large boost if people can use it for City Bike,  LIRR, MetroNorth, PATH, Parking Meters, Vending, Kiosks, etc. 

I'm sure people are tired of swiping and re-swiping their cards.

[RFIDSecur]

51 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

I'm sure people are tired of swiping and re-swiping their cards.

Is that how it works on the MTA currently? The cards can't be lasting that long if so surely?

[N6 Limited]

2 hours ago, RFIDSecur said:

Is that how it works on the MTA currently? The cards can't be lasting that long if so surely?

I've had annual Metrocards and they lasted all year through all the swipes( and dips into bus fare boxes). The issue comes with heavy use locations, the readers at busy turnstiles become dirty so users have to swipe their Metrocards more than once to be read properly, sometimes you don't realize it until the turnstyle stops you, which is annoying.

[RFIDSecur]

Ok, On the magstripe paper tickets used on the rail system we have had issue with mobile phones wiping the magstripes due to the rare earth magnets in the phones, that hasn't been an issue in the US with magstripe CC's? 

We haven't used magstripe for some time now, I don't recall phones at the time causing issues, but they didn't generally have the tech in them then they have now. Magstripe is still on the terminals, but if contactless fails, or is to high then it defaults to chip and pin, the magstripe never seems to be a fall back option.

[bobtehpanda]

6 hours ago, RFIDSecur said:

Ok, On the magstripe paper tickets used on the rail system we have had issue with mobile phones wiping the magstripes due to the rare earth magnets in the phones, that hasn't been an issue in the US with magstripe CC's? 

We haven't used magstripe for some time now, I don't recall phones at the time causing issues, but they didn't generally have the tech in them then they have now. Magstripe is still on the terminals, but if contactless fails, or is to high then it defaults to chip and pin, the magstripe never seems to be a fall back option.

I have never heard of that.

Personally I use Apple Pay quite a bit. I did use to have a contactless Chase card, but it seems like that functionality was phased out when we moved to chip and sign cards.

[RFIDSecur]

6 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

I have never heard of that.

Personally I use Apple Pay quite a bit. I did use to have a contactless Chase card, but it seems like that functionality was phased out when we moved to chip and sign cards.

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/video-magnets-make-credit-card-mag-stripe-not-work-1457.php

I think the mag stripe on paper tickets, is more vulnerable than those on credit cards, but these and hotel key cards are often held together with a phone and then sometimes in a short period become unreadable.

Yes it is odd that in the US the process is the reverse of here, we had chip and pin and then contactless was introduced, but in the UK it was the advent of Oyster that really moved the market to wards contactless.

With Apple pay, you don't worry or have a back up incase of battery failure?

 

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, RFIDSecur said:

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/video-magnets-make-credit-card-mag-stripe-not-work-1457.php

I think the mag stripe on paper tickets, is more vulnerable than those on credit cards, but these and hotel key cards are often held together with a phone and then sometimes in a short period become unreadable.

Yes it is odd that in the US the process is the reverse of here, we had chip and pin and then contactless was introduced, but in the UK it was the advent of Oyster that really moved the market to wards contactless.

With Apple pay, you don't worry or have a back up incase of battery failure?

 

It's worth noting that a cell phone's magnetic field is significantly lower than that of a refrigerator magnet.

As far as battery loss, I usually carry a charger and a battery pack in my bag. Besides, it's not as if it's my sole payment method; I also carry physical cards and cash, for places that may not even take credit cards or Apple Pay.

I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US payment networks cannot compel banks to adopt security upgrades or card features. It's why chip and sign has taken so long.

[RFIDSecur]

1 minute ago, bobtehpanda said:

It's worth noting that a cell phone's magnetic field is significantly lower than that of a refrigerator magnet.

As far as battery loss, I usually carry a charger and a battery pack in my bag. Besides, it's not as if it's my sole payment method; I also carry physical cards and cash, for places that may not even take credit cards or Apple Pay.

I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US payment networks cannot compel banks to adopt security upgrades or card features. It's why chip and sign has taken so long.

It's not the cell phone signal but the rare earth magnets that can interfere is my understanding.

 

Yes I read that the banking system is fragmented in the US and that merchants are reluctant to sign  up to the new terminals at their cost. I believe what happened here to spur it, the banks stopped underwriting the loss if chip and pin was not available. 

Apple pay allows you to make higher payment amounts, which can be an added advantage for some. So in general then you wouldn't rely solely on the Apple pay.

 

If you had a means to make a contactless payment securely with a card, quickly (i.e without having to remove the card from the wallet) would you use it more often for the MTA system let's say if you were on a call approaching the MTA terminal what do you do? pause the call and use the app?

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, RFIDSecur said:

If you had a means to make a contactless payment securely with a card, quickly (i.e without having to remove the card from the wallet) would you use it more often for the MTA system let's say if you were on a call approaching the MTA terminal what do you do? pause the call and use the app?

This was the norm I experienced in Hong Kong; contactless payment is available there via WeChat or Apple Pay, etc., but most people use physical Octopus cards that are just in their handbags or whatnot and pass them over the scanner without using them. Personally I use bluetooth headphones to talk, so the phone up to the ears is not really an issue I experience.