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Union Tpke

Track Maps, Diagrams for Hillside Ave Widening, Subway Extension Proposal

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Interesting find there UT.

Just a small quibble: do try to keep the thread titles relatively short. Otherwise, it screws with the page formatting. That is all.

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7 hours ago, Lance said:

Interesting find there UT.

Just a small quibble: do try to keep the thread titles relatively short. Otherwise, it screws with the page formatting. That is all.

Thanks. There is a limit for title length. If having it too long messes up the page formatting, I would suggest limiting the limit.

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Too bad it never was expanded beyond 184th street....there could have been stations at 188th Street, Francis Lewis Blvd., and Springfield Blvd.

And perhaps even further, to the city line with a few more stops...

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3 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Does anyone know why the Hillside Line wasn't extended beyond 184th street?

$$$

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To add on, it was a challenge to get the line as far it did. Getting it past 169 Street became extremely difficult in the midst of the Great Depression and the onset of WWII. After that, and realizing they needed an adequate terminal for the (E) and (F), the line was extended to its present terminal.

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4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

How did 169th street work as a terminal anyway with 4 tracks and 2 side platforms?

It was a major safety hazard. That's why 169 St has those gates by its stairwells.

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45 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

It was a major safety hazard. That's why 169 St has those gates by its stairwells.

Did some trains terminate at Parsons and used the "tail tracks" to switch ends?

 

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5 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

How did 169th street work as a terminal anyway with 4 tracks and 2 side platforms?

Operationally, local trains would use the crossovers just east of 169 to access the express tracks. The switch between the two express tracks was a double xover back then, so trains would simply relay there. 

Express trains would terminate at Parsons relaying east using the still extant xovers. 

45 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

It was a major safety hazard. That's why 169 St has those gates by its stairwells.

I don’t follow. Are you referring to area crime? Or crowding? 

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1 minute ago, RR503 said:

Operationally, local trains would use the crossovers just east of 169 to access the express tracks. The switch between the two express tracks was a double xover back then, so trains would simply relay there. 

Express trains would terminate at Parsons relaying east using the still extant xovers. 

I don’t follow. Are you referring to area crime? Or crowding? 

Crowding. Every set of stairs at 169th has bars leading up to them.

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3 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Operationally, local trains would use the crossovers just east of 169 to access the express tracks. The switch between the two express tracks was a double xover back then, so trains would simply relay there. 

Express trains would terminate at Parsons relaying east using the still extant xovers. 

Thanks, I figured it had to somehow work like that. 

 

3 minutes ago, RR503 said:

I don’t follow. Are you referring to area crime? Or crowding?

Crowding. There are gates by the stairwells to prevent people from falling on to the tracks when queuing to go up to the mezz.

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The 165th Street bus terminal is nearby, and with everyone heading up to take the bus, there was a need to install those gates.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120204051254/http://www.stationreporter.net/ftrain.htm

 

Quote

 

169th Street (169th Street and Hillside Ave)  Opened 4/24/1937: Local stop, 4 tracks on 2 side platforms,  full length mezzanine and 2 fare control areas, each having 4 street stairs.  Full time side at 169th Street, P/T side at 168th Street, in the 1990's the booth operations were switched.   At one time before Archer Ave opened in 1988 and when the E train also ran to 179th Street as a local, while the F was the Hillside express, it was considered to be the most congested station along the entire Queens Blvd line.  Numerous bus lines either started outside the station entrances or at the nearby 165th Street bus terminal.  There still exists crowd bars attached to each of the 7 Jamaica-bound staircases at platform level in order to "feed" the customers into the staircase, instead of crowding around it, which can create a dangerous condition if the bars were not installed.   Manhattan-bound side has 5 stairs to platform level.  A "DO NOT RUN" sign from decades ago is still visible at the Full time side, by the eastern end. 

 

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Wow. Knew bus terminal forced some (F) runs to go local during off peak, but didn't know crowding was that bad. Thanks for the info all!

Edited by RR503
late night idiocy

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5 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Wow. Knew bus terminal forced some (F) runs to go local during rush, but didn't know crowding was that bad. Thanks for the info all!

Yes crowding was bad because there was no Jamaica Center at the time and virtually all S/E Queens buses went up to Hillside Ave.

The (J) also went to 168th street.

It probably would have been better if 169th street was the (or an) express station with an intermodal connection to an improved Bus Terminal and in system transfer to the (J) train.

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