South Shore residents concerned about late night express bus service

[Lil 57]

Quote

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- With less than two weeks until Staten Island's new express bus network is put in place, some South Shore residents are raising concerns regarding the late night service in their area.

"After 8 p.m., one can't get any farther south than the Eltingville Transit Center. That is just ridiculous," said Arden Heights resident Elisa Blandi.

The SIM2, SIM25 and SIM26, servicing the southern most portion of Staten Island, make their final weekday trips from Manhattan at 8:15 p.m., 7 p.m. and 8:15 p.m., respectively.

The SIM4c will make its final weekday trip from Manhattan at midnight, but will only travel as far the Eltingville Transit Center.

"This does not look good for people who need to commute back late from the city," said one SILive commenter. "You'd think with reduced stops and added capacity, late night service and frequency could be improved."

The X17, which had previously serviced that area of the South Shore, made its final weekday trip from Manhattan at midnight, meaning residents now have to deal with nearly four hours of eliminated service.

Residents are concerned that the reduction in late night service will result in a more costly, less efficient commute.

"After the changes, it's now going to cost at least $10 additional to get car service or Uber from the Eltingville Transit Center home," said Blandi.

The South Shore Isn't happy about the late night service cuts.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

54 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

The South Shore Isn't happy about the late night service cuts.

Where's the link at so we can see the full article?

----

I found it:

South Shore residents concerned about late night express bus service

Updated Aug 9, 3:29 PM; Posted Aug 9, 3:21 PM

Gallery: South Shore residents worried about late night express bus service

Courtesy of MTA

1 / 6

SIM2 schedule

The MTA has released time tables for 19 of the 21 routes set to take effect when the newly redesigned Staten Island express bus network is put in place on August 19.

Courtesy of MTA

2 / 6

SIM2

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has announced the new routes for the Staten Island express bus overhaul scheduled to take place in August.

Courtesy of MTA

3 / 6

SIM25

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has announced the new routes for the Staten Island express bus overhaul scheduled to take place in August.

Courtesy of MTA

4 / 6

SIM25 schedule

The MTA has released time tables for 19 of the 21 routes set to take effect when the newly redesigned Staten Island express bus network is put in place on August 19.

Courtesy of MTA

5 / 6

SIM26

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has announced the new routes for the Staten Island express bus overhaul scheduled to take place in August.

Courtesy of MTA

6 / 6

SIM26 schedule

The MTA has released time tables for 19 of the 21 routes set to take effect when the newly redesigned Staten Island express bus network is put in place on August 19.

tbascome@siadvance.com

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- With less than two weeks until Staten Island's new express bus network is put in place, some South Shore residents are raising concerns regarding the late night service in their area.

"After 8 p.m., one can't get any farther south than the Eltingville Transit Center. That is just ridiculous," said Arden Heights resident Elisa Blandi.

The SIM2, SIM25 and SIM26, servicing the southern most portion of Staten Island, make their final weekday trips from Manhattan at 8:15 p.m., 7 p.m. and 8:15 p.m., respectively.

The SIM4c will make its final weekday trip from Manhattan at midnight, but will only travel as far the Eltingville Transit Center.

"This does not look good for people who need to commute back late from the city," said one SILive commenter. "You'd think with reduced stops and added capacity, late night service and frequency could be improved."

The X17, which had previously serviced that area of the South Shore, made its final weekday trip from Manhattan at midnight, meaning residents now have to deal with nearly four hours of eliminated service.

Residents are concerned that the reduction in late night service will result in a more costly, less efficient commute.

"After the changes, it's now going to cost at least $10 additional to get car service or Uber from the Eltingville Transit Center home," said Blandi.

Source: https://www.silive.com/news/2018/08/south_shore_residents_concerne_1.html

[B35 via Church]

This could actually cause a loss of jobs..... People frenetically going to their bosses & asking to be let out early, so they can catch their bus & what not... Moreso than the other 3 outerboroughs (with no service to a particular area after 8), this'll sting SI pretty significantly - you're not going to have any wave of people taking cabs; you're more apt. to having people scurrying to catch whatever trip will be the last one of the night that digs deeper into SI than ETC.....

 

6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Where's the link at so we can see the full article?

https://www.silive.com/news/2018/08/south_shore_residents_concerne_1.html

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

This could actually cause a loss of jobs..... People frenetically going to their bosses & asking to be let out early, so they can catch their bus & what not... Moreso than the other 3 outerboroughs, this'll sting SI pretty significantly - you're not going to have any wave of people taking cabs; you're more apt. to having people scurrying to catch whatever trip will be the last one of the night that digs deeper into SI than ETC.....

That's another reason I left Staten Island.  I have clients in different time zones, and one major client is out in California, which means that sometimes I won't be done in the office until 20:00 minimum because the graphic designers usually start sending me projects around 16:00 their time and I don't like taking work home with me.  That meant me having to get car service frequently since there were no express buses serving me directly after 18:30. Now I don't have that problem. It's very frustrating for sure.  I bit the bullet and would just pay the $10.00+ for the short ride from Slosson Avenue, but I agree with the folks that are complaining. It's an added expense, especially with how everything else keeps going up.  You do that three days a week or more and that's easily over $100 a month right there, not including any other Uber or cab rides.   

I used to allocate around $300 for car service a month, for weeknights and weekdays because the other issue is if you work late to finish projects, then get home late, you want to sleep a little later and catch a later express bus the next morning. Well I didn't have buses running directly near me that ran later, so that was another expense, and sure you can drive to the express bus, but then that limits what buses you have access to.  It's a huge pain either way.

[Future ENY OP]

Like I said in previous posts. This re-design plan is going to look bad. I saw the Houston presentation and it’s amazing on how they improved on bus service including the scheduling. Why can’t Staten Island have express bus service on all its lines until 11PM. 

Unacceptable. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Like I said in previous posts. This re-design plan is going to look bad. I saw the Houston presentation and it’s amazing on how they improved on bus service including the scheduling. Why can’t Staten Island have express bus service on all its lines until 11PM. 

Unacceprable. 

I think what the elected officials should've done was demanded to see the schedules in advance.  That should've been the agreement from the beginning, this way you make them accountable. I plan on attending the re-design for Riverdale and I'll be damned if I'm not going to speak up because what they did here was pull a fast one.  It's going to be difficult to get them to want to add that much service. I was open to the idea of adding a bus here and there. That's one thing.  Adding several hours of service is expensive.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Looking at the Saturday and Sunday schedules, do they really need the SIM2 running every 30 minutes? You could take a bus or two from that and add it back so that you have later service during the week back to Tottenville from Midtown.  What they did was steal Midtown service away and put it Downtown for a market that isn't yet proven.  Makes no sense at all.  For them I'm sure they don't mind running more SIM2 service because the trips should be quicker from Downtown according to the run times and thus cheaper.  They clock in at roughly a little over an hour which seems to be the sweet spot that the  guns for for express bus service in terms of the length of each trip.

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I plan on attending the re-design for Riverdale

You think they're going to redesign that much on that side of town? Or are you speaking mainly on the topic of scheduling & service frequency?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

You think they're going to redesign that much on that side of town? Or are speaking mainly on the topic of scheduling Service frequency?

Years ago they considered completely eliminating the BxM18.  Truth be told, it wouldn't shock me if they tried to axe it because most of the ridership comes more and more from Midtown (56th and 43rd in the morning are the two stops where the bus almost empties out on most trips).  If it had to depend on Downtown riders alone, it wouldn't be enough.  There used to more Wall Street workers back in the day for sure because there was a guy that worked at NYSE who would take the bus, but there seems to be fewer of those types now riding.  The other issue is the trips in the afternoon especially the first two are almost always severely late.  That 16:15 bus sometimes is almost an hour late at times, meaning that the trip can take two or more hours to RIverdale.  For a line that runs only every half hour, having a bus 30 minutes late, people won't wait.  When I started taking it in 2012, it had a lot more riders, especially at night. It's been declining in ridership just about every year, mainly because of reliability and the trips are taking a lot longer too.

As for the BxM1 and BxM2, the BxM2 especially in the mornings has been losing ridership.  The trips just take longer and longer now.  If I use it now, I need to give myself an hour and 30 minutes, for trips that I used to be able to do in an hour or less.  Back in 2012, you could certainly get from 34th and 6th Northbound to Riverdale in 35 minutes late nights. That's a rarity now.  That same trip is usually about an hour now more times than not.  Of late the buses have been on-time, but last year it got so bad that I started buying Metro-North monthly passes because service just wasn't reliable and the trips were just taking too long.

The BxM1 in the mornings has gotten progressively worse as well.  If I don't leave the house by a certain time, I can pretty much forget about getting to my office on time.  There's also been a lot of missing buses, sometimes almost a whole week where trips just don't show up because the B/O goes on vacation and he isn't replaced, so I wouldn't take anything for granted.  I hear so many of the old-timers complain about how much better service was before the took over under Liberty Lines.  To me the best service we had was around the time that I moved up there. Since then we get months of crap service, then there are tons of complaints, elected officials contact the  and Yonkers Depot addresses the problem for a few months, and then it's back to the same nonsense again with late and missing buses.

I will say that they've been more aggressive with dispatching though because before they would just have buses sitting on the Deegan knowing the Deegan was a mess, so you'd waste 30 minutes just on that alone.  I could see the BxM2 restructured for sure.  I mean it isn't as direct because of Central Park.  If they axe the BxM18, then they would probably have the BxM2 run down 5th and Madison entirely, which is much quicker.  Those West Side stops though 63rd and Broadway for example and 72nd and Columbus... Those are huge stops, so I don't know... It will be interesting because as it stands now, the BxM1 and BxM2 only make about 8 - 10 stops tops in the pick-up sections to Riverdale. You can't really get much better than that.

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

What about using the SIM1c to either a local bus or the railway?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

What about using the SIM1c to either a local bus or the railway?

What local bus form of transportation runs in the middle of the South Shore during the evening or on weekends?

[Lawrence St]

Forgive my ignorance, but can't they take the SIR?

[S78 via Hylan]

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Forgive my ignorance, but can't they take the SIR?

That doesn’t cover all of the South shore. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Looking at the Saturday and Sunday schedules, do they really need the SIM2 running every 30 minutes? You could take a bus or two from that and add it back so that you have later service during the week back to Tottenville from Midtown.  What they did was steal Midtown service away and put it Downtown for a market that isn't yet proven.  Makes no sense at all.  For them I'm sure they don't mind running more SIM2 service because the trips should be quicker from Downtown according to the run times and thus cheaper.  They clock in at roughly a little over an hour which seems to be the sweet spot that the  guns for for express bus service in terms of the length of each trip.

Not only that, but the spans on weekends also. Is service from 4:30 AM really needed? I can understand the justification for service that early on weekdays, but IDK if there are that many people that will take the bus that early. A 5:30 AM start on Saturdays and a 6 AM start on Sundays would be good enough (may even excessive still, but IDK), and then use those buses for hourly evening service or so).

Still though, I would have prefer either they have an SIM2C that goes to Midtown as well. It could be half-hourly for a shorter span, but as long as there's evening service and a direct connection to Midtown.

[checkmatechamp13]

11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This could actually cause a loss of jobs..... People frenetically going to their bosses & asking to be let out early, so they can catch their bus & what not... Moreso than the other 3 outerboroughs (with no service to a particular area after 8), this'll sting SI pretty significantly - you're not going to have any wave of people taking cabs; you're more apt. to having people scurrying to catch whatever trip will be the last one of the night that digs deeper into SI than ETC.....

https://www.silive.com/news/2018/08/south_shore_residents_concerne_1.html

The problem is that it's a whole 4 hours earlier, so for those people, that could very well be over half of their shift that they're missing (if they're working say, 4pm-12am). 

But yeah, I might be in a similar situation if I decide to go back for my masters degree. A lot of classes end at 9pm at CCNY, and the last bus on the SIM8 leaves the PABT at 9:23pm. I do not trust that SIM4C with those headways, and to have to take the SIM3C and walk back from Deppe Place (and then have to be at work early the next morning). Might just say screw it, engineering isn't a field where you need a masters to advance anyway.

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think what the elected officials should've done was demanded to see the schedules in advance.  That should've been the agreement from the beginning, this way you make them accountable. I plan on attending the re-design for Riverdale and I'll be damned if I'm not going to speak up because what they did here was pull a fast one.  It's going to be difficult to get them to want to add that much service. I was open to the idea of adding a bus here and there. That's one thing.  Adding several hours of service is expensive.  

For their own good, they should've released a general idea of the schedules when they first released the routes. Not an exact PDF like the ones they released, but at least the start and end times and the approximate frequencies. For the sake of not looking foolish, they could've gotten the feedback earlier in the process (but instead, they waited until the last minute to release them, and now we have giant service gaps on some lines and inadequate frequencies on other lines). Every time we asked for the schedules, they kept saying "Oh, that's the scheduling department, they haven't been released yet", and I'm sitting there thinking "How did you come up with a budget if you have no idea of the span or frequency of these routes?".

Even back in June 2017 (when they released the original plan that had nothing between Worth & 23rd), they should've posted the spans and frequencies to do a compare/contrast type of deal. Then in October 2017 & March 2018, they should've done something similar (really, with all the time they've had, they should've released a few proposals at once and had riders comment on which one they preferred. Then after that, they should've picked the one that seemed the best received, and moved forward with that one, making tweaks accordingly)

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Looking at the Saturday and Sunday schedules, do they really need the SIM2 running every 30 minutes? You could take a bus or two from that and add it back so that you have later service during the week back to Tottenville from Midtown.  What they did was steal Midtown service away and put it Downtown for a market that isn't yet proven.  Makes no sense at all.  For them I'm sure they don't mind running more SIM2 service because the trips should be quicker from Downtown according to the run times and thus cheaper.  They clock in at roughly a little over an hour which seems to be the sweet spot that the  guns for for express bus service in terms of the length of each trip.

Basically, with the way they have the run times set up, you need 5 buses in order to run 30 minute headways, but 3 buses in order to run 60 minute headways. So cutting the service in half doesn't mean the costs get cut in half. 

In any case, Staten Island is geographically south of Manhattan, hence why it makes more sense to run a Downtown service. As it is right now, you have people taking routes like the X22 who make their way to/from Downtown, so to an extent, it has been proven. If somebody really wants to avoid the subway, they can take the SIM1C/3C/4C or X27/28 (or even one of the BM buses) Downtown and catch it there. I really think people are overestimating the amount of people on the South Shore who refuse to make transfers.

9 hours ago, Vtrain said:

They could had have the SIM4c route to be rerouted al;ong Arthur Kill Rd, Arden Av, Woodrow Rd, Huguenut Av to terminate at Luton Av & Hylan Blvd where the SIM25 would terminate.

And don't forget, weekend riders also to Midtown from the South Shore would also lose direct service as well as the SIM2c would terminate in Lower Manhattan, who wants to go to Midtown Manhattan on weekends, more riders are going to Midtown on weekends.

The SIM25 is proposed to terminate in Tottenville. Are you referring to the SIM24?

And do you live out here and take our 

6 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

What about using the SIM1c to either a local bus or the railway?

 

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Forgive my ignorance, but can't they take the SIR?

There's no local bus in the evenings or weekends in the vicinity of Woodrow Road. If you live by the Huguenot SIR station you can take the SIR, or if you live within walking distance of Arthur Kill Road, you can take the S74 (keep in mind that South Shore service is every 30 minutes on both the SIR & S74). But if you live in the middle, you're screwed.

If the S56 ran evenings and weekends, then you could make the argument that a local bus is available (but even then, it's a transfer on high headways, and on top of that, they're already dealing with the extra stops along Gannon).

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Not only that, but the spans on weekends also. Is service from 4:30 AM really needed? I can understand the justification for service that early on weekdays, but IDK if there are that many people that will take the bus that early. A 5:30 AM start on Saturdays and a 6 AM start on Sundays would be good enough (may even excessive still, but IDK), and then use those buses for hourly evening service or so).

Still though, I would have prefer either they have an SIM2C that goes to Midtown as well. It could be half-hourly for a shorter span, but as long as there's evening service and a direct connection to Midtown.

The present-day X17 starts at 4:30am, so they probably wanted to match the span (those early-morning Saturday buses actually do get good ridership). But then again, if they were really concerned with that, they would've also matched the evening span as well (which I agree is more important). 

And I really don't get why everybody thinks the SIM2 should serve Midtown. You realize the SIM2 originally wasn't supposed to have off-peak service period, right? That extra $1 million in the budget is specifically for the SIM2. With all the parades in Midtown on the weekends, I wish the MTA would take my express route and cut it Downtown. Do you know how many times I've waited an hour at Battery Place and I couldn't get any bus to Staten Island, not even the almighty X1? And that's not even counting the times I took the X10 when the X17 should've come a long time before. As I said, if somebody doesn't want to take the subway, they can take the SIM1C/3C/4C, X27/28 or BM1/2/3/4 Downtown and catch the SIM2 there. I'll put it to you this way: I work in Long Island City, and my preferred method of commuting is the X17A-(4)(5)-(7) even though the X17J/X30 connect to the (7) train. Why? Because the HOV lane in Brooklyn is more reliable than the Lincoln Tunnel HOV Lane. It doesn't make sense to spend more money for less reliable service when there's options available. It's not fair to the people who need to get places quickly to have the SIM2 held up in the same traffic as all the other express buses. I might start using that SIM2 for off-peak service, and I don't even live near one of its stops. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The problem is that it's a whole 4 hours earlier, so for those people, that could very well be over half of their shift that they're missing (if they're working say, 4pm-12am). 

But yeah, I might be in a similar situation if I decide to go back for my masters degree. A lot of classes end at 9pm at CCNY, and the last bus on the SIM8 leaves the PABT at 9:23pm. I do not trust that SIM4C with those headways, and to have to take the SIM3C and walk back from Deppe Place (and then have to be at work early the next morning). Might just say screw it, engineering isn't a field where you need a masters to advance anyway.

For their own good, they should've released a general idea of the schedules when they first released the routes. Not an exact PDF like the ones they released, but at least the start and end times and the approximate frequencies. For the sake of not looking foolish, they could've gotten the feedback earlier in the process (but instead, they waited until the last minute to release them, and now we have giant service gaps on some lines and inadequate frequencies on other lines). Every time we asked for the schedules, they kept saying "Oh, that's the scheduling department, they haven't been released yet", and I'm sitting there thinking "How did you come up with a budget if you have no idea of the span or frequency of these routes?".

Even back in June 2017 (when they released the original plan that had nothing between Worth & 23rd), they should've posted the spans and frequencies to do a compare/contrast type of deal. Then in October 2017 & March 2018, they should've done something similar (really, with all the time they've had, they should've released a few proposals at once and had riders comment on which one they preferred. Then after that, they should've picked the one that seemed the best received, and moved forward with that one, making tweaks accordingly)

Basically, with the way they have the run times set up, you need 5 buses in order to run 30 minute headways, but 3 buses in order to run 60 minute headways. So cutting the service in half doesn't mean the costs get cut in half. 

In any case, Staten Island is geographically south of Manhattan, hence why it makes more sense to run a Downtown service. As it is right now, you have people taking routes like the X22 who make their way to/from Downtown, so to an extent, it has been proven. If somebody really wants to avoid the subway, they can take the SIM1C/3C/4C or X27/28 (or even one of the BM buses) Downtown and catch it there. I really think people are overestimating the amount of people on the South Shore who refuse to make transfers.

The SIM25 is proposed to terminate in Tottenville. Are you referring to the SIM24?

And do you live out here and take our 

 

There's no local bus in the evenings or weekends in the vicinity of Woodrow Road. If you live by the Huguenot SIR station you can take the SIR, or if you live within walking distance of Arthur Kill Road, you can take the S74 (keep in mind that South Shore service is every 30 minutes on both the SIR & S74). But if you live in the middle, you're screwed.

If the S56 ran evenings and weekends, then you could make the argument that a local bus is available (but even then, it's a transfer on high headways, and on top of that, they're already dealing with the extra stops along Gannon).

The present-day X17 starts at 4:30am, so they probably wanted to match the span (those early-morning Saturday buses actually do get good ridership). But then again, if they were really concerned with that, they would've also matched the evening span as well (which I agree is more important). 

And I really don't get why everybody thinks the SIM2 should serve Midtown. You realize the SIM2 originally wasn't supposed to have off-peak service period, right? That extra $1 million in the budget is specifically for the SIM2. With all the parades in Midtown on the weekends, I wish the MTA would take my express route and cut it Downtown. Do you know how many times I've waited an hour at Battery Place and I couldn't get any bus to Staten Island, not even the almighty X1? And that's not even counting the times I took the X10 when the X17 should've come a long time before. As I said, if somebody doesn't want to take the subway, they can take the SIM1C/3C/4C, X27/28 or BM1/2/3/4 Downtown and catch the SIM2 there. I'll put it to you this way: I work in Long Island City, and my preferred method of commuting is the X17A-(4)(5)-(7) even though the X17J/X30 connect to the train. Why? Because the HOV lane in Brooklyn is more reliable than the Lincoln Tunnel HOV Lane. It doesn't make sense to spend more money for less reliable service when there's options available. It's not fair to the people who need to get places quickly to have the SIM2 held up in the same traffic as all the other express buses. I might start using that SIM2 for off-peak service, and I don't even live near one of its stops. 

The fact of the matter is on weekends, people WANT Midtown, not Downtown, and Midtown is more popular in terms of ridership. And before you go talking about how many people get on and off Downtown, I'm aware of that, but for events, eating and such, Midtown is still where people go with the family, etc. That and the Chelsea area around Union Square. Downtown is still rather dead in parts on weekends, though that is changing. That is another reason I left Staten Island because I realized that most of the places I hung out at were in Midtown, Upper West Side, or the Upper East Side, and no, not everyone wants to deal with the subway, especially on Staten Island. They have no problem sitting in traffic and waiting until they reach their stop. 

[Lawrence St]

Seeing how theres going to be one lane open on the via NJ route, they should really just operate all those SIM8's via Bay Ridge.

[Lil 57]

On 8/10/2018 at 7:44 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

What local bus form of transportation runs in the middle of the South Shore during the evening or on weekends?

I think I've got it...

The car.

Jokes aside, The SIM2 should definitely run until at least Midnight on weekdays. The South Shore should still be able to retain it's late evening service after this redesign.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Jokes aside, The SIM2 should definitely run until at least Midnight on weekdays. The South Shore should still be able to retain it's late evening service after this redesign.

Or maybe every bus route should operate 24/7.

[Lil 57]

6 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Or maybe every bus route should operate 24/7.

Not enough ridership to sustain 24/7 service on every route. But I would like to see some more express routes other than the X1/SIM1c run 24/7. 

[checkmatechamp13]

 

15 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The fact of the matter is on weekends, people WANT Midtown, not Downtown, and Midtown is more popular in terms of ridership. And before you go talking about how many people get on and off Downtown, I'm aware of that, but for events, eating and such, Midtown is still where people go with the family, etc. That and the Chelsea area around Union Square. Downtown is still rather dead in parts on weekends, though that is changing. That is another reason I left Staten Island because I realized that most of the places I hung out at were in Midtown, Upper West Side, or the Upper East Side, and no, not everyone wants to deal with the subway, especially on Staten Island. They have no problem sitting in traffic and waiting until they reach their stop. 

And if they don't want to deal with the subway, they can take another express bus from Downtown to Midtown. Or they can continue driving to the ETC or whatever area they are currently driving to, and catch their direct Midtown bus. But having all express buses automatically run to Midtown on the weekends is just stupid. For those of us who need quick and reliable service, we need at least one option that starts Downtown and goes directly to the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel.

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Or maybe every bus route should operate 24/7.

It's perfectly reasonable for a NYC neighborhood to expect to have transit service available late into the evening, 7 days a week. That's not the same as asking that every route operate late into the evening, let alone 24/7. The X17 is currently the only transit option period for parts of Arden Heights during certain hours, and thus, it is reasonable to expect the current span of service to be maintained.

56 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Not enough ridership to sustain 24/7 service on every route. But I would like to see some more express routes other than the X1/SIM1c run 24/7. 

With the way they combined the busiest parts of the X10 & X17, I was expecting them to give the SIM4C the X1 treatment, and give it frequent service most of the day, and eventually overnight service.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

29 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

And if they don't want to deal with the subway, they can take another express bus from Downtown to Midtown. Or they can continue driving to the ETC or whatever area they are currently driving to, and catch their direct Midtown bus. But having all express buses automatically run to Midtown on the weekends is just stupid. For those of us who need quick and reliable service, we need at least one option that starts Downtown and goes directly to the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel.

The reliability factor is a valid one, but the thing is, what if there was also one of the buses also running to Midtown (like the SIM25)? Let's pretend both the SIM2 and SIM25 ran off-peak. The SIM25 gets the people who would otherwise be going to ETC for the SIM1, plus whatever riders on the SIM2 that would be willing to transfer. The problem then is, how much ridership would there be on the SIM2 in that scenario? You would likely know this better than me, so I'm asking.

If more people would get on the SIM25, then it would have made sense to operate an off-peak South Shore bus to Midtown only from the beginning, instead of having people either transfer in Manhattan, or continue to force them onto the SIM1. I mean either way, you're forcing people into the SIM1, but what I'm basically asking, is what areas are people gunning for (Midtown and surrounding areas, or Downtown and surrounding)? 

[checkmatechamp13]

12 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The reliability factor is a valid one, but the thing is, what if there was also one of the buses also running to Midtown (like the SIM25)? Let's pretend both the SIM2 and SIM25 ran off-peak. The SIM25 gets the people who would otherwise be going to ETC for the SIM1, plus whatever riders on the SIM2 that would be willing to transfer. The problem then is, how much ridership would there be on the SIM2 in that scenario? You would likely know this better than me, so I'm asking.

If more people would get on the SIM25, then it would have made sense to operate a South Shote bus to Midtown only from the beginning, instead of having people either transfer in Manhattan, or continue to force them onto the SIM1.

As I said, there's a lot of people who take those "via NJ" buses who actually have destinations further Downtown (and that's why it irritates me that after all this, they still left the South Shore with just one Downtown route, albeit covering more areas). It's just that the only express bus in their area happens to go to Midtown, so make do with it and transfer to the subway.

That being said, having the off-peak route be a Midtown route would only make sense if the demand was overwhelmingly for Midtown, which I do not believe to be the case. The reason is that having Downtown riders catch the subway in Midtown is a backtrack for them, whereas having Midtown riders catch the subway Downtown is still having them travel in the same general direction. I don't like the current Midtown-centric pattern during peak hours, and I definitely wouldn't like it during off-peak hours. As I said, for my personal commute, I prefer the X17A-(4)(5) to reach the (7) as opposed to taking the X30 to reach the (7). The fact that the SIM8 runs directly to 42nd Street might play a small role in me going directly through Midtown more often (but then I also have to take into consideration that 495 viaduct construction project), but I'm not going to automatically use the Midtown option just because it's there.

The other thing to consider is that more options in general are available Downtown as opposed to Midtown, and people on Staten Island do switch off between express buses, since a lot of them have a relative available to pick them up. To give you an idea, if I go back to CCNY (for my masters) in the fall, the quickest option going home will be to take the (A) to the SIM8, but it's going to be a tight connection for the last bus, and if I miss it, I have to go back into the subway to go Downtown. Compared to the current setup, where I can go Downtown and if I miss the X17, worse-case scenario, I can take the X10, or even the ferry if necessary (the X17 is frequent enough during evenings that I usually just wait for the next one). The same applies to riders on the South Shore: If they catch the 7th or 8th Avenue Line to 42nd Street (say, from the UWS, or maybe even the 14th Street area where the express buses are further east) and then miss the bus, they're stuck trying to backtrack Downtown for a bus to the ETC where they can get a lift. If they're already Downtown, their options are available right there.

But to answer your question, if I were in charge of the redesign, I would have the SIM2 & SIM26 operate off-peak (Additionally, I would have a Downtown branch of the SIM26 during rush hour). That way, riders have the option of switching at Arthur Kill Road (or Victory Blvd) to the opposite bus. So in other words, I do believe there is enough latent demand on the South Shore for 2 off-peak routes. The reason why I would choose the SIM26 over the SIM25 is because it provides more unique coverage.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

Not enough ridership to sustain 24/7 service on every route. But I would like to see some more express routes other than the X1/SIM1c run 24/7. 

I don’t support that. If anything, the X1 should get a boost first before any other routes get 24/7 service on the island. The X1 isn’t there yet either, so I think it’s a waste to run several different express bus lines just because Staten Islanders have long commutes. At this point, there are a lot of other communities in the same boat, and they don’t have it. The buses see good usage (I know because I’ve used the late buses) but they aren’t SRO. What I was expecting was an introduction of 30 minute headways, which still hasn’t happened. That is mind boggling given how crowded the buses are. 

We all know that the X1 is pretty damn central for most people to get picked up or catch car service. You’re 10-15 minutes from it tops in most cases. I do think that it’s time however to have the other branches run later for sure. Something like 02:00 in the morning..

35 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The reliability factor is a valid one, but the thing is, what if there was also one of the buses also running to Midtown (like the SIM25)? Let's pretend both the SIM2 and SIM25 ran off-peak. The SIM25 gets the people who would otherwise be going to ETC for the SIM1, plus whatever riders on the SIM2 that would be willing to transfer. The problem then is, how much ridership would there be on the SIM2 in that scenario? You would likely know this better than me, so I'm asking.

If more people would get on the SIM25, then it would have made sense to operate an off-peak South Shore bus to Midtown only from the beginning, instead of having people either transfer in Manhattan, or continue to force them onto the SIM1. I mean either way, you're forcing people into the SIM1, but what I'm basically asking, is what areas are people gunning for (Midtown and surrounding areas, or Downtown and surrounding)? 

This SIM2 arrangement was a dumb move. Either run the damn thing to Midtown or don’t bother. 

[checkmatechamp13]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This SIM2 arrangement was a dumb move. Either run the damn thing to Midtown or don’t bother. 

So literally leave those people stranded who formerly had X17 service?