Jump to content

New express bus service: MTA continues to answer riders' concerns


Lil 57

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

It's nothing special. The reason for the pick is because they have to finalize all these added trips in house and get them reflected on the public facing schedules. Leaving it as extra work is straining bus availability. 

So basically bus drivers that have their current schedule won't be able to keep their same run? That's a little messed up, especially since this is the longest pick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 341
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

So basically bus drivers that have their current schedule won't be able to keep their same run? That's a little messed up, especially since this is the longest pick. 

That's how our pick rights work. The TA already messed up when they converted those 1C trips into 10s that Tuesday. (Luckily, those runs paid the same amount but still) With the changes made yesterday, they definitely forced a new pick. It wouldn't be fair for an operator to have their schedule or work changed, just like that. 

Most of the time when we have to re-pick, everyone usually picks the same thing or most similar to what they had. I'm on VR and since that's staying the same, I'm staying there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Deucey said:

Some news I found (it's free to read):

http://s.silive.com/sq6Q4Al

From what I can tell from this article, the response from the riders is not good. But of course, this is expected with any major form of change with a bus system. Regardless, I still have hope that this bus route re-design will work. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, TheNewYorkElevated said:

From what I can tell from this article, the response from the riders is not good. But of course, this is expected with any major form of change with a bus system. Regardless, I still have hope that this bus route re-design will work. 

The main issue is/was the schedules. Once that is fixed, everybody can get a better evaluation of how the system is working.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The issues extend beyond the schedules and the little changes made the (MTA) won’t cut it. They eliminated stops but now buses spend more time picking up at the stops that are served. I’m not sure how that improves service because so far it hasn’t. I’m glad more Staten Islanders are also speaking out against this BS with the (MTA) yet again catering to the South Shore and leaving the North Shore with fewer options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The thing that really worries me is the left turn from 57th Street onto Lexington Avenue. From what I understand (I haven't been in the area to check), SIM22/26 buses make a nearside stop at 57th & Lexington, and then turn left onto Lexington, which sounds extremely unsafe (the East Side buses used to either start at Park Avenue in the PM and make a right, or start at 3rd Avenue further back, get into the left lane, and make a stop at the far side of Lexington & 56th). The X21 used to start at the UN, so it just ran straight down 42nd Street.

They actually moved the SIM22/25/26 stop back to midblock between Lex and 3rd (the old X2/5/22/31 stop). The SIM8/31 still stop at the corner of Lex (old X10/17 stop).

14 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Have they used up all their extra operators and buses yet? They still haven't addressed all of the span/frequency issues and the peak/off-peak service gaps.

Apparently not. More changes:

New changes as of Sept. 1

We added four early morning trips to SIM10 out of Eltingville Transit Center: 4:10, 4:26, 4:41 and 4:56 a.m.

We added another new reverse-peak SIM4c trip to the College of Staten Island, leaving 57th Street at 7:20 a.m. This is in addition to the 7:40 a.m. trip added last week.

We adjusted SIM1c service so that there are 20-minute headways after 3:50 a.m., with trips at 4:10, 4:30 and 4:50 a.m.

We added a new SIM1c trip out of Central Park South in the afternoon, departing at 2:00 p.m.

__________

So if I’m correct, just before August 19th those four SIM10 trips at 4:10, 4:26, 4:41 and 4:56am were converted to SIM1Cs to close the gap between the 3:50am 1C and the first SIM1 at 5:05. Then there was major overcrowding so they added two SIM10 trips at 4:48 and 4:58. Now they scrapped those two trips, converted the four 1C trips BACK to SIM10s, and added three SIM1C trips, which they probably should’ve done right from the start instead of causing all this confusion. (And they still didn’t add any SIM7 trips, or SIM6 trips for people who took the first 4:43am X5 on Capodanno.)

Also, with all these changes, are we going to have to wait until the pick for the online schedules and BusTime to be updated? And what bugs me is that they gave out thousands of new maps and schedules without listening to rider feedback, and only now are they making (some of) the changes we asked for. There’s going to be a lot of confusion (in addition to the current confusion), with different maps and schedules saying completely different things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/31/2018 at 5:41 PM, BrooklynBus said:

Although I frequently have disagreements with B35 via Church and we don't always agree on solutions , I will say it again. His knowledge of the bus system and its problems, is greater than the entire Operations Planning put together. 

...Which is embarrassing - as I am one person, that hasn't partaken in, and/or commenced any formal studies of anything (especially panning years) involving public transit.... All I've done in my many travels is astutely observed commuters, commuting (lol).... I still get these feelings sometimes of not contributing/relaying as much info as I wish I could on here, as it's literally impossible for me to ride every single trip on every single route (including the subway & RR)....

Suffice it to say, the MTA doesn't know how to effectively cater to its riderbases... I'll go one further & say that they generally don't know of them.... When commuters are (IMO, solely) viewed as numbers/stats instead of living beings with places to go, to continue driving this city (no pun intended) in the myriad of ways possible, on a day-in day-out basis, you get what you get....

Oh, how I angrily & despondently wait for these separate borough local bus changes.....

On 8/31/2018 at 5:46 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

He should be offered a job with the (MTA) but who in the right minds would want to work for such a disorganized agency? :lol:

On 8/31/2018 at 9:21 PM, BrooklynBus said:

He previously stated he couldn't be happy with a 9 to 5 job inside. You are right if they know who he is, he should be offered some type of employment. And you are also correct by saying who in his right mind  would want to work for such an agency? 

White collar level? pfft, The MTA couldn't offer me enough of a package to put up with such incompetence & dumbfoundedness, driven by penny-wise & pound foolish ass, politically driven f***in puppets....

I'm good on that one.... Call it subjective, but stupidity is my #1 pet peeve & I wouldn't dare waste away years off my existence being a conformist shill.... I admit that I lack a certain tact, but if it's anything that can be said about my 10k + posts on this platform here, it's that I have c-h-a-r-a-c-t-e-r..... Even moreso, offline....

I have enough grey hairs as it is, being a month away from 37 & I'm not trying to look like Ric Flair at damn 40 !

Thanks for the compliment, though.

On 9/1/2018 at 11:54 AM, BrooklynBus said:

I can understand the need to fine tune, but the amount of necessary changes is ridiculous. 

Right... When you have to "fine tune" so much of a plan of action that has been carried out, is it really a "fine tuning"....

....or a colossal f*** up from the beginning !

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The issues extend beyond the schedules and the little changes made the (MTA) won’t cut it. They eliminated stops but now buses spend more time picking up at the stops that are served. I’m not sure how that improves service because so far it hasn’t. I’m glad more Staten Islanders are also speaking out against this BS with the (MTA) yet again catering to the South Shore and leaving the North Shore with fewer options.

I didn't say that it was the only issue, but I'll put it to you this way: That was the main "accidental" part of the implementation (for lack of a better term). The stops were intentionally removed to reduce the amount of time the buses spend accelerating/decelerating and trying to merge back into traffic (and often catching red lights that they otherwise would've made). At least with that, it was intentional, so you can see which stops are working out and which stops need some of the surrounding stops added back. 

The thing with the schedules is that was purely a result of laziness on their part. I mean, if this is supposed to be some revolutionary new system, there should be no need for the planners & schedulers to refer to any of these routes as "the old __" and definitely no need for them to blindly copy-paste the old spans onto new routes, without considering which ridership bases are also being served by said route. 

With the stops, they at least did some sort of analysis as far as which stops had which ridership levels (and even before the changes took effect, they added back a few stops and split up some stops into two separate stops). But with the schedules it was clear that nobody double-checked, as B35 put it, if there's that many changes required, it's no longer a fine-tuning. And the sad thing is, back in June 2018, they were talking about "We added 8% more weekday trips, 20% more Saturday trips, and 28% more Sunday trips" so it's clear that they at least had an idea of what the schedules would be, but yet nobody bothered to proofread them in the two-month period between the time they announced it, and the time they published the schedules? So many of these changes are "Added this trip to close this gap", "Added this trip to restore the span" (and there's still so much left to do), stuff that should've been done finalized long before the plan was implemented. If I was able to tell instantly that the SIM4C & SIM7 had inadequate service, there's no reason why somebody who had access to all of the data (and at least 35-40 hours a week to look at it) shouldn't have been able to point out those errors.

And as SIMplicity pointed out below, the amount of changes made means that a lot of the maps and schedules that they gave out are incorrect, which already causes more confusion than necessary, and people taking routes that they would've preferred not to take because they didn't get the memo about the changes. 

And the MTA didn't "cater" to the South Shore in this redesign. Hylan Blvd had the most screw-ups during these cuts, and the deep South Shore mostly saw its routes straightened out (and evening service got completely messed up. They finally added an evening shuttle so weekday riders aren't completely screwed, but they still have nothing on the weekends to replace the X17 evening trips, which ended early enough as it was). The funny thing was, that guy who posted that clip about the deep South Shore lives along Hylan Blvd which still has more options than virtually any other area on Staten Island. I agree with him that a New Dorp-East Midtown should come back, but don't get mad at the deep South Shore for having their routes straightened, just because they all happen to go to Madison Avenue (heck, the original plan had the "via NJ" routes run up 6th Avenue, and the East Shore routes run up Madison Avenue). I'm sure some of those people would love to have the service levels he has: The only 24/7 express bus in the whole city, a West Street route, a Downtown route, an FDR route. 

Just now, SIMplicity said:

They actually moved the SIM22/25/26 stop back to midblock between Lex and 3rd (the old X2/5/22/31 stop). The SIM8/31 still stop at the corner of Lex (old X10/17 stop).

Apparently not. More changes:

New changes as of Sept. 1

We added four early morning trips to SIM10 out of Eltingville Transit Center: 4:10, 4:26, 4:41 and 4:56 a.m.

We added another new reverse-peak SIM4c trip to the College of Staten Island, leaving 57th Street at 7:20 a.m. This is in addition to the 7:40 a.m. trip added last week.

We adjusted SIM1c service so that there are 20-minute headways after 3:50 a.m., with trips at 4:10, 4:30 and 4:50 a.m.

We added a new SIM1c trip out of Central Park South in the afternoon, departing at 2:00 p.m.

__________

So if I’m correct, just before August 19th those four SIM10 trips at 4:10, 4:26, 4:41 and 4:56am were converted to SIM1Cs to close the gap between the 3:50am 1C and the first SIM1 at 5:05. Then there was major overcrowding so they added two SIM10 trips at 4:48 and 4:58. Now they scrapped those two trips, converted the four 1C trips BACK to SIM10s, and added three SIM1C trips, which they probably should’ve done right from the start instead of causing all this confusion. (And they still didn’t add any SIM7 trips, or SIM6 trips for people who took the first 4:43am X5 on Capodanno.)

Also, with all these changes, are we going to have to wait until the pick for the online schedules and BusTime to be updated? And what bugs me is that they gave out thousands of new maps and schedules without listening to rider feedback, and only now are they making (some of) the changes we asked for. There’s going to be a lot of confusion (in addition to the current confusion), with different maps and schedules saying completely different things.

OK, that makes sense about the SIM22/25/26 stop. (Also, that SIM1C trip at 2pm is a waste, since the SIM1/7/10 already run at that time. Maybe they're trying to accommodate some SIM4C riders but couldn't find any extra drivers out of Charleston or something). 

What I noticed is that the 7:40am SIM4C trip and the early morning SIM1C trips/SIM10 conversions were added after the Twitter session they had, so they had to fill the gap as quickly as possible with whatever method they needed to use (I guess they wanted to hide the fact that they made those mistakes, so if you count that Twitter session as the official "final public session" or whatever, prior to the launch, they can say they addressed all of those comments. So they just converted those trips to SIM1C trips to cover the gap in Downtown service (but the drivers still had them picked as SIM10 trips), so there were probably union issues they had to address as well. (Notice that all of the original SIM10 trips were restored. The union probably said "If you're going to add back SIM1C trips, then you need to do so by giving the SIM10 operators the same runs they picked originally". 

Yeah, that's a good question: Somebody posted that the Transit app shows some old "X" routes still operating simultaneously with the SIM routes, so we might very well have to wait until the new pick is finalized.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

1. I didn't say that it was the only issue, but I'll put it to you this way: That was the main "accidental" part of the implementation (for lack of a better term). The stops were intentionally removed to reduce the amount of time the buses spend accelerating/decelerating and trying to merge back into traffic (and often catching red lights that they otherwise would've made). At least with that, it was intentional, so you can see which stops are working out and which stops need some of the surrounding stops added back. 

The thing with the schedules is that was purely a result of laziness on their part. I mean, if this is supposed to be some revolutionary new system, there should be no need for the planners & schedulers to refer to any of these routes as "the old __" and definitely no need for them to blindly copy-paste the old spans onto new routes, without considering which ridership bases are also being served by said route. 

With the stops, they at least did some sort of analysis as far as which stops had which ridership levels (and even before the changes took effect, they added back a few stops and split up some stops into two separate stops). But with the schedules it was clear that nobody double-checked, as B35 put it, if there's that many changes required, it's no longer a fine-tuning. And the sad thing is, back in June 2018, they were talking about "We added 8% more weekday trips, 20% more Saturday trips, and 28% more Sunday trips" so it's clear that they at least had an idea of what the schedules would be, but yet nobody bothered to proofread them in the two-month period between the time they announced it, and the time they published the schedules? So many of these changes are "Added this trip to close this gap", "Added this trip to restore the span" (and there's still so much left to do), stuff that should've been done finalized long before the plan was implemented. If I was able to tell instantly that the SIM4C & SIM7 had inadequate service, there's no reason why somebody who had access to all of the data (and at least 35-40 hours a week to look at it) shouldn't have been able to point out those errors.

2. And the MTA didn't "cater" to the South Shore in this redesign. Hylan Blvd had the most screw-ups during these cuts, and the deep South Shore mostly saw its routes straightened out (and evening service got completely messed up. They finally added an evening shuttle so weekday riders aren't completely screwed, but they still have nothing on the weekends to replace the X17 evening trips, which ended early enough as it was). The funny thing was, that guy who posted that clip about the deep South Shore lives along Hylan Blvd which still has more options than virtually any other area on Staten Island. I agree with him that a New Dorp-East Midtown should come back, but don't get mad at the deep South Shore for having their routes straightened, just because they all happen to go to Madison Avenue (heck, the original plan had the "via NJ" routes run up 6th Avenue, and the East Shore routes run up Madison Avenue). I'm sure some of those people would love to have the service levels he has: The only 24/7 express bus in the whole city, a West Street route, a Downtown route, an FDR route. 

1. None of what you’re saying needs to be repeated, especially the removal of bus stops. They made it clear why they were doing it, but that still doesn’t change the fact that for the stops that remain, boarding times are taking longer and the time savings that supposedly were to be gained is being eaten up. You can dispute that if you’d like, but that’s the reality of it, and they should’ve studied how to improve boarding times at the stops they kept, otherwise it’s the same BS. You just have buses spending more time at the stops that they do make. This agency needs to start hiring people that have common sense. You don’t need to be an expert to know this stuff. If you use any public transit on a regular basis, these are things that will be quite obvious. I think their goal with this was to cut service, sell it as a service increase, and then claim that they were looking to make improvements to rectify any issues to further improve service. There’s still TONS of overcrowding daily, even with these changes and it’s inexcusable. This is why an express bus advocacy group is needed outside of just the people speaking on Staten Island. The (MTA) has been taking advantage for years now, and I’d like a group that represents ALL boroughs that have express bus service to hold their @sses accountable because they think they’re real slick. Some of this is incompetence and some of it was intentional. If you have packed buses, you can then just add just enough service so you can cram everyone in. If enough people ditch the express buses out there, you can then cut service and argue that you added more service, and now you have to cut it due to declining ridership. Works like a charm...

This is an agency facing an ever mounting money crunch. Anything is on the table, and not just express buses either. Subways and local buses too.

2. Well that’s your opinion. All one has to do is look at the map to see the obvious changes, and the North Shore may look ok overall but the number of options are LESS for areas east of Richmond Avenue along Forest Avenue especially, and that is not ok.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The main issue is/was the schedules. Once that is fixed, everybody can get a better evaluation of how the system is working.

True. Can't wait for Wednesday. 🙄

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The issues extend beyond the schedules and the little changes made the (MTA) won’t cut it. They eliminated stops but now buses spend more time picking up at the stops that are served. I’m not sure how that improves service because so far it hasn’t. I’m glad more Staten Islanders are also speaking out against this BS with the (MTA) yet again catering to the South Shore and leaving the North Shore with fewer options.

Also true. All of last week, picking up 51 and 41st on the Sim10, I've gotten so many people... It's as if I don't have a bus in front of me. No standees yet tho. *Knock on wood*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SevenEleven said:

True. Can't wait for Wednesday. 🙄

Also true. All of last week, picking up 51 and 41st on the Sim10, I've gotten so many people... It's as if I don't have a bus in front of me. No standees yet tho. *Knock on wood*

It’s going to be hell for a while. I feel for the B/Os like yourself that give a damn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It’s going to be hell for a while. I feel for the B/Os like yourself that give a damn.

Thanks. A lot of riders have been understanding for the most part. Can't say the same for everyone though. I did a Sim1C from Worth Street to fill a gap in service last week. Going down with 3 other buses, I still managed to get a seated load cleaning up the line. I'm on the 1 this week, so let's see how it goes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SevenEleven said:

Thanks. A lot of riders have been understanding for the most part. Can't say the same for everyone though. I did a Sim1C from Worth Street to fill a gap in service last week. Going down with 3 other buses, I still managed to get a seated load cleaning up the line. I'm on the 1 this week, so let's see how it goes.

The test is coming this month, especially the end of it. They have NOT been enforcing those bus lanes that they kept bringing up ad nauseum, which is what this plan depends on heavily. Without that, on top of missing buses, you can pretty much throw this plan out as a failure. This plan should’ve included TSP, which I can’t for the life me understand why it’s taking them so long to implement citywide, and they need a quicker boarding process. I know the Metrocard is on its way out, but this plan just won’t work unless many more changes are made. Traffic is worsening because our transit system is not keeping up. I noticed several Staten Islanders talking about driving in. This is the new trend now... That and Uber. People want and expect to ride in comfort, so I would expect more people to consider driving in or even carpooling if this mess isn’t fixed and fast. If the (MTA) thinks everyone is going to use the ferry they are sadly mistaken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been through many transit changes, over the years and I have never seen anything as bad as this one.

As anyone who does a project involving statistics knows that data collection is the important first step and in this case, I want to know how did collect the data for the routes that would be changed, every day for a week,or month or possibly twice a year? Was it done by number of people boarding at each stop? What time was the data collected?, was it done for the entire day? Based on what I have been reading on this thread, either the initial data collection which if done right would have provided a map of where existing ridership boards and which would have served as a starting point for the new routes. They should have started from there but based on what I have read here, this was not done.

What this looks like was someone saw an opportunity to get federal funds and use it for making changes that no one in Operations Planning (or for that matter any other part of the MTA conglomerate) knew where to start and what they had to do to begin the project.  What has to be done here is a complete clean out of the unit along with all the other units that were involved with this fiasco and their replacement with people who ride and have driven buses in our city.( am writing it but the reality is, it will never happen. Many years ago, I wrote that everyone at 2 Broadway who works in departments that have to deal with the riders would have to drive a  regularly scheduled MTA bus to and from work every morning as part of their regular job As far as hiring all of the out of towners both at the MTA and in the NYC Department of Transportation (the one who did the work on Q/52 & Q/53 was a UC Berkeley graduate (Source: Brooklyn Bus)) , they got to go as they know nothing about NYC transportation and by the time that they learn what the natives like us know about it, they are already retired. Our local colleges and universities can provide local graduates that would do a far superior job in doing projects such as this and that positions go first to NYC residents. I can just picture this happening and the mayor and the governor along with the MTA running into Federal Court and requesting an injunction prohibiting this action from being implemented as it discriminates against out of town residents from getting jobs in New York City. As a result, we will continue to see more thins like this for eons.

What will happen io most of these workers who created this mess? They do not have to worry as they most likely get promotions for doing an outstanding job.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, SevenEleven said:

Thanks. A lot of riders have been understanding for the most part. Can't say the same for everyone though. I did a Sim1C from Worth Street to fill a gap in service last week. Going down with 3 other buses, I still managed to get a seated load cleaning up the line. I'm on the 1 this week, so let's see how it goes.

Let me add my sympathies to all the bus drivers on Staten Island who are involved here as I remember many of them who I saw working every day the express routes when I would change buses at the Eltingville Transit Center. As part of the Arthur Kill group that were blessed with many of you providing us with service for many years, none of you hard working men and women deserve this at all. ,

it is also the reason that I say every time I board a bus I say to the driver "Thank you for driving as if it was not for the bus drivers on the routes working every single day, I would have never been able to make it to work on time and retire".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Would I be wrong for assuming that they should have caught these errors and realized crowding would have been this bad during the planning process? Cause at this point, that's how I feel about the whole thing...

If a stupid person does something stupid, the stupid person doesn't see that stupid thing as being stupid.....

Save for the conspiracy theories, and not to implicate that no one should ever make mistakes, but this debacle we've been opining about with the SIM network is far more than a mistake.... At minimum, it is flat out ignorance.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

1. None of what you’re saying needs to be repeated, especially the removal of bus stops. They made it clear why they were doing it, but that still doesn’t change the fact that for the stops that remain, boarding times are taking longer and the time savings that supposedly were to be gained is being eaten up. You can dispute that if you’d like, but that’s the reality of it, and they should’ve studied how to improve boarding times at the stops they kept, otherwise it’s the same BS. You just have buses spending more time at the stops that they do make. This agency needs to start hiring people that have common sense. You don’t need to be an expert to know this stuff. If you use any public transit on a regular basis, these are things that will be quite obvious. I think their goal with this was to cut service, sell it as a service increase, and then claim that they were looking to make improvements to rectify any issues to further improve service. There’s still TONS of overcrowding daily, even with these changes and it’s inexcusable. This is why an express bus advocacy group is needed outside of just the people speaking on Staten Island. The (MTA) has been taking advantage for years now, and I’d like a group that represents ALL boroughs that have express bus service to hold their @sses accountable because they think they’re real slick. Some of this is incompetence and some of it was intentional. If you have packed buses, you can then just add just enough service so you can cram everyone in. If enough people ditch the express buses out there, you can then cut service and argue that you added more service, and now you have to cut it due to declining ridership. Works like a charm...

This is an agency facing an ever mounting money crunch. Anything is on the table, and not just express buses either. Subways and local buses too.

2. Well that’s your opinion. All one has to do is look at the map to see the obvious changes, and the North Shore may look ok overall but the number of options are LESS for areas east of Richmond Avenue along Forest Avenue especially, and that is not ok.

1. Yeah but not all of the time savings (and also some of it comes back to the schedules anyway because thereare routes with inadequate service that were supposed to have more buses available to handle those extra riders at each stop)

And James Oddo called for the redesign originally. Supposedly they added an extra $1 million to the budget for the extra off-peak service.

2. My point is just because the South Shore got screwed less doesn't mean the design "caters" to them. I'll put it this way, I'd still prefer the express service in the Mid-Island and North Shore over that in the South Shore. 

12 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

Thanks. A lot of riders have been understanding for the most part. Can't say the same for everyone though. I did a Sim1C from Worth Street to fill a gap in service last week. Going down with 3 other buses, I still managed to get a seated load cleaning up the line. I'm on the 1 this week, so let's see how it goes.

Isn't a 1C from Worth Street just a 1?

12 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

I have been through many transit changes, over the years and I have never seen anything as bad as this one.

As anyone who does a project involving statistics knows that data collection is the important first step and in this case, I want to know how did collect the data for the routes that would be changed, every day for a week,or month or possibly twice a year? Was it done by number of people boarding at each stop? What time was the data collected?, was it done for the entire day? Based on what I have been reading on this thread, either the initial data collection which if done right would have provided a map of where existing ridership boards and which would have served as a starting point for the new routes. They should have started from there but based on what I have read here, this was not done.

What this looks like was someone saw an opportunity to get federal funds and use it for making changes that no one in Operations Planning (or for that matter any other part of the MTA conglomerate) knew where to start and what they had to do to begin the project.  What has to be done here is a complete clean out of the unit along with all the other units that were involved with this fiasco and their replacement with people who ride and have driven buses in our city.( am writing it but the reality is, it will never happen. Many years ago, I wrote that everyone at 2 Broadway who works in departments that have to deal with the riders would have to drive a  regularly scheduled MTA bus to and from work every morning as part of their regular job As far as hiring all of the out of towners both at the MTA and in the NYC Department of Transportation (the one who did the work on Q/52 & Q/53 was a UC Berkeley graduate (Source: Brooklyn Bus)) , they got to go as they know nothing about NYC transportation and by the time that they learn what the natives like us know about it, they are already retired. Our local colleges and universities can provide local graduates that would do a far superior job in doing projects such as this and that positions go first to NYC residents. I can just picture this happening and the mayor and the governor along with the MTA running into Federal Court and requesting an injunction prohibiting this action from being implemented as it discriminates against out of town residents from getting jobs in New York City. As a result, we will continue to see more thins like this for eons.

What will happen io most of these workers who created this mess? They do not have to worry as they most likely get promotions for doing an outstanding job.

At the Hackathon they had data for the ridership per hour at each stop. Clearly they didn't bother using it when they created the schedules.

I mean, some of the things that go through their minds...at the March 2018 meeting when the SIM7 was supposed to go up Father Capodanno, they were contradicting themselves in trying to satisfy former X9 riders. They said "Oh well if we start the SIM1 at WFC would that work?" (even though it gives them a tour of Lower Manhattan instead of the straight shot the SIM7/33 take) and "If we have the 33 get off the SIE and stop at Hylan, does that work?" (No because you take it out of the HOV lane and force it through the most congested part of the SIE and Narrows Road). The whole point is to make the system faster and they're even entertaining ideas that make it slower.

But just like I disagree that B/Os should live in NYC, I disagree that they should hire NYC graduates. A lot of the planning can be done with proper analysis of the data. Google Maps and Google Streetview (combined with field data and of course passenger input) can help make sure routes and stops are placed in the right locations to best serve the neighborhoods around them. If you're smart, it doesn't matter where you're from.

Also, as mentioned, somebody at the Hackathon from Staten Island (Great Kills) supported a proposal to cut all express buses to Rector Street (not even Park Place or Worth Street) and  terminate a bunch of the local routes at the Grasmere SIR station where a single S53 blocks the only travel lane in either direction and causes a traffic jam. And need I reiterate what QJT (from Brooklyn) suggested for the North Shore that unfortunately ended up happening...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

1. Yeah but not all of the time savings (and also some of it comes back to the schedules anyway because thereare routes with inadequate service that were supposed to have more buses available to handle those extra riders at each stop)

And James Oddo called for the redesign originally. Supposedly they added an extra $1 million to the budget for the extra off-peak service.

2. My point is just because the South Shore got screwed less doesn't mean the design "caters" to them. I'll put it this way, I'd still prefer the express service in the Mid-Island and North Shore over that in the South Shore. 

 

1. Not sure what you’re trying to say, but let’s leave it there.

2. That’s your perspective. You may live on the North Shore, but your commute is not the same as others who live on the North Shore. You need to understand that and respect it. The reality is you have service closer to you for longer 7 days a week. People east of Richmond Avenue along Forest don’t. For those and others who see the amount of improvements that have occurred on the South Shore when parts of North Shore continue to see fewer options, yes they are being catered to because the (MTA) has been on this bit about population growth down there, so it’s let’s give them more service. Fine, but not at the expense of parts of the North Shore. Folks couldn’t give a rats’ ass what who got as long as they got their fair share, which isn’t the case here. I was never a fan of the X30. It took longer compared to the old X14 that bypassed Downtown, but to have the X30 as the only Midtown express bus AND the only express bus east of Manor Road along Forest is not acceptable. The South Shore got a Downtown bus and a few Midtown options and a Downtown bus 7 days a week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That’s your perspective. You may live on the North Shore, but your commute is not the same as others who live on the North Shore. You need to understand that and respect it. The reality is you have service closer to you for longer 7 days a week. People east of Richmond Avenue along Forest don’t. For those and others who see the amount of improvements that have occurred on the South Shore when parts of North Shore continue to see fewer options, yes they are being catered to because the (MTA) has been on this bit about population growth down there, so it’s let’s give them more service. Fine, but not at the expense of parts of the North Shore. Folks couldn’t give a rats’ ass what who got as long as they got their fair share, which isn’t the case here. I was never a fan of the X30. It took longer compared to the old X14 that bypassed Downtown, but to have the X30 as the only Midtown express bus AND the only express bus east of Manor Road along Forest is not acceptable. The South Shore got a Downtown bus and a few Midtown options and a Downtown bus 7 days a week.

That's one specific part of the North Shore (and the people "calling out" the MTA about the South Shore live off the Hylan/Father Capodanno corridor, which is clearly Mid-Island and still has more options than most areas of Staten Island)

In any case, the MTA considers both the Gannon and Watchogue corridors to serve the North Shore. Saying that the SIM2 covers the entire South Shore is inaccurate. Somebody over by Forest Avenue has an easier time walking over to Watchogue Road for the SIM3C compared to someone in Rossville or Woodrow making their way over to the SIM2. To compare riders in the immediate vicinity of one specific corridor (Forest Avenue) to those in the immediate vicinity of another specific corridor  (Hylan Blvd on the deep South Shore) and claim favoritism is inaccurate. All those Midtown routes on the South Shore run the same path via NJ as the X30/SIM30 (and if it makes you feel better, the SIM25 actually saw a span reduction compared to the X22/23). They have one single Downtown route on that entire side of the island. At least people in West Brighton & Westerleigh have the option of making their way to Watchogue/Victory for another Downtown route.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's one specific part of the North Shore (and the people "calling out" the MTA about the South Shore live off the Hylan/Father Capodanno corridor, which is clearly Mid-Island and still has more options than most areas of Staten Island)

In any case, the MTA considers both the Gannon and Watchogue corridors to serve the North Shore. Saying that the SIM2 covers the entire South Shore is inaccurate. Somebody over by Forest Avenue has an easier time walking over to Watchogue Road for the SIM3C compared to someone in Rossville or Woodrow making their way over to the SIM2. To compare riders in the immediate vicinity of one specific corridor (Forest Avenue) to those in the immediate vicinity of another specific corridor  (Hylan Blvd on the deep South Shore) and claim favoritism is inaccurate. All those Midtown routes on the South Shore run the same path via NJ as the X30/SIM30 (and if it makes you feel better, the SIM25 actually saw a span reduction compared to the X22/23). They have one single Downtown route on that entire side of the island. At least people in West Brighton & Westerleigh have the option of making their way to Watchogue/Victory for another Downtown route.

Please. The South Shore is more suburban and people DRIVE. That is less so on the North Shore, so it's a moot point.  And no, you'd be incorrect. There are people that live on the North Shore that are complaining. You don't read every article or speak to every Staten Islander to know who says what.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Please. The South Shore is more suburban and people DRIVE. That is less so on the North Shore, so it's a moot point.  And no, you'd be incorrect. There are people that live on the North Shore that are complaining. You don't read every article or speak to every Staten Islander to know who says what.

Weren't you the one saying that all those people were driving down to the X12/42 or X2 when the X13/14/16 were changed in 2010? Now suddenly those people don't drive? The majority (i.e. Over 50%) of Staten Island households own cars (even in most lower-income areas). Yes, it's true that there are many people who don't have access to a car or prefer not to use it and the system needs to take their needs into account, but that applies across the whole island, not just on the North Shore. Arden Heights & Rossville may be geographically on the South Shore, but they have the density and layout of many Mid-Island and North Shore neighborhoods.

And Forest Avenue is about the same distance to Watchogue Road as the SIM3C/4C are from my home. So yes, even some of those people east of Richmond Avenue benefited from the plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Weren't you the one saying that all those people were driving down to the X12/42 or X2 when the X13/14/16 were changed in 2010? Now suddenly those people don't drive? The majority (i.e. Over 50%) of Staten Island households own cars (even in most lower-income areas). Yes, it's true that there are many people who don't have access to a car or prefer not to use it and the system needs to take their needs into account, but that applies across the whole island, not just on the North Shore. Arden Heights & Rossville may be geographically on the South Shore, but they have the density and layout of many Mid-Island and North Shore neighborhoods.

And Forest Avenue is about the same distance to Watchogue Road as the SIM3C/4C are from my home. So yes, even some of those people east of Richmond Avenue benefited from the plan.

Yes, that doesn't make it okay though. Those people drove because they lost their service. It's one thing to have that in 2010 and another in what's supposed to be a re-design to make service better. The fact of the matter is that corridor along Forest Avenue had FOUR express buses and now there are only two of them and really just one for the areas east of Manor Road. Those are the facts. Based off of that, yes it looks like the (MTA) is catering to the South Shore which has more options. They also have the SIM1 which runs 24/7, even if they have to drive to reach it. 15 minute drive tops to ETC, so as I said, if they want to give service to the South Shore that's fine, but spread it around equally. As it stands it is not equal. That area should at least have the service it once had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, that doesn't make it okay though. Those people drove because they lost their service. It's one thing to have that in 2010 and another in what's supposed to be a re-design to make service better. The fact of the matter is that corridor along Forest Avenue had FOUR express buses and now there are only two of them and really just one for the areas east of Manor Road. Those are the facts. Based off of that, yes it looks like the (MTA) is catering to the South Shore which has more options. They also have the SIM1 which runs 24/7, even if they have to drive to reach it. 15 minute drive tops to ETC, so as I said, if they want to give service to the South Shore that's fine, but spread it around equally. As it stands it is not equal. That area should at least have the service it once had.

Yeah, but there were two routes along Forest before the redesign (and also the SIM30 runs later than the old X30 and also more frequently in the PM, while in the AM, the SIM35 runs later than any bus in the West Brighton area ever did)

And if you want to argue that South Shore residents can drive to the SIM1/1C at the ETC, then North Shore residents can drive to the SIM1/1C at Hylan & Narrows. See how ridiculous that sounds? Let's have everybody from the whole island drive to the X1 and argue over which side got the short end of the stick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

1. Yeah but not all of the time savings (and also some of it comes back to the schedules anyway because thereare routes with inadequate service that were supposed to have more buses available to handle those extra riders at each stop)

And James Oddo called for the redesign originally. Supposedly they added an extra $1 million to the budget for the extra off-peak service.

2. My point is just because the South Shore got screwed less doesn't mean the design "caters" to them. I'll put it this way, I'd still prefer the express service in the Mid-Island and North Shore over that in the South Shore. 

Isn't a 1C from Worth Street just a 1?

At the Hackathon they had data for the ridership per hour at each stop. Clearly they didn't bother using it when they created the schedules.

I mean, some of the things that go through their minds...at the March 2018 meeting when the SIM7 was supposed to go up Father Capodanno, they were contradicting themselves in trying to satisfy former X9 riders. They said "Oh well if we start the SIM1 at WFC would that work?" (even though it gives them a tour of Lower Manhattan instead of the straight shot the SIM7/33 take) and "If we have the 33 get off the SIE and stop at Hylan, does that work?" (No because you take it out of the HOV lane and force it through the most congested part of the SIE and Narrows Road). The whole point is to make the system faster and they're even entertaining ideas that make it slower.

But just like I disagree that B/Os should live in NYC, I disagree that they should hire NYC graduates. A lot of the planning can be done with proper analysis of the data. Google Maps and Google Streetview (combined with field data and of course passenger input) can help make sure routes and stops are placed in the right locations to best serve the neighborhoods around them. If you're smart, it doesn't matter where you're from.

Also, as mentioned, somebody at the Hackathon from Staten Island (Great Kills) supported a proposal to cut all express buses to Rector Street (not even Park Place or Worth Street) and  terminate a bunch of the local routes at the Grasmere SIR station where a single S53 blocks the only travel lane in either direction and causes a traffic jam. And need I reiterate what QJT (from Brooklyn) suggested for the North Shore that unfortunately ended up happening...

After writing my comments on this subject, I decided to read Marc Molinaro's  document on the MTA  (Sorry! I do not have the site but there is a thread on this subject which has a link) and I recommend it to everyone whether they are posters here or are voters. There are quite a few sections of interest to all for us but the one that will generate a lot of push back from the MTA starts on p.21 and it discusses the "culture of the MTA' and the changes that have to be made for the organization to be more efficient. One of the recommendations is that the MTA  for  filling many of the positions within the MTA that they  be filled by those who worked their way up through the ranks. This made my mind think what these changes would have looked like and how they would have been implemented if there were Staten Island Bus Drivers who moved up the ranks and prepared this document!

I have not followed the events leading to the implementation of this disaster but based on what I read in Checkmate Champ 13 post here, this entire thing should have never reached  the implementation stage. His point about Google Maps is extremely important as using the site, the size of the street can be seen and as anyone knows there are many streets on the island that may have "two lanes" for traffic but in reality are just one lane for traffic. I almost dropped from my seat when I read that this Hackathon person called for termination of local routes at the SIR Grasmere Station as I thought that we had buried that nonsense sometime before I left the island eight years ago. That location was always bad (and I am going back 50 years) and there is no place to put an additional lane without encroaching on many of the properties located virtually on the sidewalk a that location. Can someone spare a couple of millions to purchase the properties?

From what I justt read on this post, the individuals from "Hackathon" (a organization that I have never heard of) were and are the problem and it begs the question as to who gave  them this broad authority as they seem to know nothing about Staten Island bus passengers even though" they are from the island". If they are representing the MTA and offering suggestions, then this proved what the Molinaro report recommended should be implemented and now.

PS: I refer to it as the Molinaro report but it is really the Byford blueprint for change.. Either way, it is recommended reading for all New Yorkers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.