New express bus service: MTA continues to answer riders' concerns

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Day 5 of the madness...

Some riders have suggested banning together and hiring a lawyer to sue the  for the lack of service that they've been providing and I fully support it.  I suggested we express bus riders contact the group of LIRR riders who are currently suing the  for their abysmal performance and hold them accountable to the public, as they are a PUBLIC agency. 

[Future ENY OP]

6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Day 5 of the madness...

Some riders have suggested banning together and hiring a lawyer to sue the  for the lack of service that they've been providing and I fully support it.  I suggested we express bus riders contact the group of LIRR riders who are currently suing the  for their abysmal performance and hold them accountable to the public, as they are a PUBLIC agency. 

This on Hylan Boulevard near SI Honda? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

This on Hylan Boulevard near SI Honda? 

This is on Hylan Blvd, right off of Clove Road.

[Future ENY OP]

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This is on Hylan Blvd, right off of Clove Road.

Copy that. From that picture they severely decreased the express buses flowing down Hylan. The old network was a bit better especially for the Hylan riders. Plenty of options between the X1-9 series via Hylan heading to Midtown/Downtown. 

Where is the Staten Island delegation with this issue? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

41 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Copy that. From that picture they severely decreased the express buses flowing down Hylan. The old network was a bit better especially for the Hylan riders. Plenty of options between the X1-9 series via Hylan heading to Midtown/Downtown. 

Where is the Staten Island delegation with this issue? 

They're getting an ear full on social media that's for sure, which includes myself.  They failed the borough in 2010 when the  drastically cut express bus service forcing people to start driving and use other alternatives, and now this.  Oddo keeps saying the same thing... "We're going to get it right". Well you had MONTHS to do just that, and you ok a plan like this?? Ridiculous.  I expected some hiccups for sure, but never nothing like this.  Part of the problem with these elected officials is they don't actually rely on the transportation.  You see them in photo ops acting like they really give a damn, but at the end of the day, themselves and their staff members get around via car.  Very few of them actually go around the community and walk around and see what's going on.  Folks like Senator Golden... That man goes around to the express bus stops and informs people personally when service is being restored.  That's the way it should be done. Show people you are in their community and care about things like their commute.

 When I spoke with my elected official's office the other day about a transportation issue, the guy was nice (they always are), but even he admitted indirectly that he drove. He didn't know which express buses ran in the neighborhood that he lives in so that should tell you all you need to know. I had to keep repeating and clarifying myself while he attempted to talk over me about how my elected official would have something to say on the issue.  

I understand that these elected officials cover a wide range of areas from housing to transportation and so on and so forth, but Jesus Christ.  There are certain things that wouldn't be happening if they just paid attention.

This is what they promised originally (LOL):

 

[Lil 57]

28 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They're getting an ear full on social media that's for sure, which includes myself.  They failed the borough in 2010 when the  drastically cut express bus service forcing people to start driving and use other alternatives, and now this.  Oddo keeps saying the same thing... "We're going to get it right". Well you had MONTHS to do just that, and you ok a plan like this?? Ridiculous.  I expected some hiccups for sure, but never nothing like this.  Part of the problem with these elected officials is they don't actually rely on the transportation.  You see them in photo ops acting like they really give a damn, but at the end of the day, themselves and their staff members get around via car.  Very few of them actually go around the community and walk around and see what's going on.  Folks like Senator Golden... That man goes around to the express bus stops and informs people personally when service is being restored.  That's the way it should be done. Show people you are in their community and care about things like their commute.

 When I spoke with my elected official's office the other day about a transportation issue, the guy was nice (they always are), but even he admitted indirectly that he drove. He didn't know which express buses ran in the neighborhood that he lives in so that should tell you all you need to know. I had to keep repeating and clarifying myself while he attempted to talk over me about how my elected official would have something to say on the issue.  

I understand that these elected officials cover a wide range of areas from housing to transportation and so on and so forth, but Jesus Christ.  There are certain things that wouldn't be happening if they just paid attention.

This is what they promised originally (LOL):

 

Those bold words are 100% lies as of now. Someone should sue the  for the damages they did to Staten Island's transportation system over the years.

[Lawrence St]

Staten Island's transport needs to rebuilt from the ground up.

[Lawrence St]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Go during rush hour by Vesey Street, stand and see how quickly the line grows and if there are gaps in service you'll be in for a treat. lol

There's 5th Avenue too to experience the overcrowding and severe congestion.

The SIM7 im on right now seems empty...and I got on at Union Sq.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

.....This is what they promised originally (LOL):

Well, people sure as f*** are "Letting their voices be heard" now.

49 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Those bold words are 100% lies as of now.

Politics...

How many lies can we sell to the public that'll make US look good !

 

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Staten Island's transport needs to rebuilt from the ground up.

Not just that, it also needs to be under better management too. No amount of change in something can stop it from going down the toilet if it’s not maintained. And we all know the current agency’s track record for that. Especially with the SIM routes so far.

[SIMplicity]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh you would? Well wait for the SIM7 Downtown by the WTC. You likely won't get a seat and will have the luxury to stand for $6.50.

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Day 5 of the madness...



So predictable. I took the X7 at least once a week from Vesey (depending on traffic down by Battery Place; on some days the West St approach to the tunnel has saved me at least 20 minutes) and those buses arrived not even half full. That line at Vesey has reached 50-60 people but the undercrowded X7 and X9 could handle it. (Twice I had to stand on the X7 but because it was pouring rain). Not many people got on in midtown, and yet they moved the buses from Lex and Madison to 5th/6th to accommodate X1/7/9 midtown riders... How did they fail to see that the majority of X7/9 riders got on at 14th Street and below?

According to BusTime, today the 2:30pm SIM7 left around 3:00, the 3:00 left around 3:15, the 3:30 left around 3:45, the 3:45 left around 3:50, and the 4:00 left at 4:05...

Also, when does the third lane of the Battery Tunnel switch to outbound? I often saw that the traffic at 4:15 was a nightmare with two outbound lanes, but at 5:00 things were running smoothly with three. And maybe they should ban people coming up towards the tunnel from Battery Place from cutting over the FDR traffic and going straight on West St.

[MysteriousBtrain]

33 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

According to BusTime, today the 2:30pm SIM7 left around 3:00, the 3:00 left around 3:15, the 3:30 left around 3:45, the 3:45 left around 3:50, and the 4:00 left at 4:05...

This, as well as other reasons, are why the SIMs fail and get crowded constantly. How hard it is to follow a schedule at this time especially given that you are supposed to be in Manhattan after the inbound trip anyways?

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

This, as well as other reasons, are why the SIMs fail and get crowded constantly. How hard it is to follow a schedule at this time especially given that you are supposed to be in Manhattan after the inbound trip anyways?

I was on the 4:00 SIM7. Here are my obvs:

I got on at 14th St, bus was late by 5 minutes. Driver was signed up as an X15 at first (idk why) Wasnt really that crowded, and when we got to Vesey St I was expecting a large crowd from what @Via Garibaldi 8 said, but there was'nt that much of a crowd. I looked at bus time and saw that there was another SIM7 directly behind us, so we were late by a good 15 minutes. I got off somewhere around Hylan, and I saw not one not two but three SIM1's back to back. That and for some reason i saw a lot of LFS's on the s79.

[SIMplicity]

36 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I was on the 4:00 SIM7. Here are my obvs:

I got on at 14th St, bus was late by 5 minutes. Driver was signed up as an X15 at first (idk why) Wasnt really that crowded, and when we got to Vesey St I was expecting a large crowd from what @Via Garibaldi 8 said, but there was'nt that much of a crowd. I looked at bus time and saw that there was another SIM7 directly behind us, so we were late by a good 15 minutes. I got off somewhere around Hylan, and I saw not one not two but three SIM1's back to back. That and for some reason i saw a lot of LFS's on the s79.

Either the crowds form later, around 5:00 or 5:30, or people at Vesey have gotten fed up and are walking to the SIM1, which would be bad because MTA might think they wouldn’t need to boost SIM7 service.

I saw those LFS’s on the S79 too, lol. There’s also a lot of non-SBS-wrapped Orions. I haven’t seen many SBS-wrapped Orions lately, but when I do the signage is all screwed up. The “S79” and “Bay Ridge 86 St Sta” are really tiny and the “Select Bus” is huge and gets cut off.

[QM1to6Ave]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They're getting an ear full on social media that's for sure, which includes myself.  They failed the borough in 2010 when the  drastically cut express bus service forcing people to start driving and use other alternatives, and now this.  Oddo keeps saying the same thing... "We're going to get it right". Well you had MONTHS to do just that, and you ok a plan like this?? Ridiculous.  I expected some hiccups for sure, but never nothing like this.  Part of the problem with these elected officials is they don't actually rely on the transportation.  You see them in photo ops acting like they really give a damn, but at the end of the day, themselves and their staff members get around via car.  Very few of them actually go around the community and walk around and see what's going on.  Folks like Senator Golden... That man goes around to the express bus stops and informs people personally when service is being restored.  That's the way it should be done. Show people you are in their community and care about things like their commute.

 When I spoke with my elected official's office the other day about a transportation issue, the guy was nice (they always are), but even he admitted indirectly that he drove. He didn't know which express buses ran in the neighborhood that he lives in so that should tell you all you need to know. I had to keep repeating and clarifying myself while he attempted to talk over me about how my elected official would have something to say on the issue.  

I understand that these elected officials cover a wide range of areas from housing to transportation and so on and so forth, but Jesus Christ.  There are certain things that wouldn't be happening if they just paid attention.

This is what they promised originally (LOL):

 

LOL at the part about rerouting buses due to traffic. You don’t need to redesign a whole bus network to do that, and it’s not like they regularly do that on the exp lines in the other boroughs (I mean official reroutes, not individual B/Os taking shortcuts to save time but risk getting in trouble) 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I was on the 4:00 SIM7. Here are my obvs:

I got on at 14th St, bus was late by 5 minutes. Driver was signed up as an X15 at first (idk why) Wasnt really that crowded, and when we got to Vesey St I was expecting a large crowd from what @Via Garibaldi 8 said, but there was'nt that much of a crowd. I looked at bus time and saw that there was another SIM7 directly behind us, so we were late by a good 15 minutes. I got off somewhere around Hylan, and I saw not one not two but three SIM1's back to back. That and for some reason i saw a lot of LFS's on the s79.

04:00 is not the heart of rush hour and it’s also Friday, thus lighter crowds.

[checkmatechamp13]

19 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I've been wondering the exact same thing. And if the MTA can apparently add new runs at the drop of a hat like this, why can't they do the same thing with other routes as needed all the time??

Trust me....they're doing this out of desperation (you know the saying, "when you wait until the last minute to do something, it only takes a minute to do"). The thing with this is that they probably had to find B/Os who were willing to work consistent overtime (in other words, change their run entirely), which probably results in issues with the union, also sleep deprivation laws that might kick in (they can't have more than a 13 hour spread or something like that. Maybe 15 hours)

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Well this is the result of lazy planning & I'd go as far as to say heads should roll because of this.... Albeit under different circumstances, the first thing I actually thought of after reading the first day's worth of comments on here & SILive regarding people's actual commutes, was BridgeGate & the shitstorm that was..... To me, this is beyond normal MTA incompetence (which shouldn't be a thing anyway) & borders on absolute sabotage.... Someone mentioned on here that there was some MTA worker somewhere that said something to the tune of, the redesign being a ploy to get people taking the ferry.... I'm not saying that I necessarily concur with that or not, but I will admit that it's something I never considered (redirecting express riders onto the ferry)... Disgusting.

None of what's going on right now should be surprising to anyone that's been cognizant about this whole thing.... Engaging in spur-of-the-moment insta-fixes is not going to rectify much, when the very foundation of this redesign is the problem in & of itself....

The Staten Island Express Bus Network redesign.... needs a redesign.

That's what I told one lady who takes the SIM7: When I saw that schedule, I said this is their way of sticking it to you guys for asking for West Street & Greenwich Village service. They want you to get so fed up with the crappy SIM7 service that you give up and make your way to the SIM1 (whether it's by subway/local bus from Greenwich Village, or by walking from West Street), or better yet go to the ferry like you said.

It's pathetic. They (supposedly) add $1 million to the budget, 68 trips to the weekday schedule (a few commuters did Excel counts or manual counts or whatever) and yet magically the service becomes worse overall. I wasn't wild about the routes, but I said that it could work if they schedule everything correctly, and stick to their (repeated) promises at the community board meetings about adequate frequencies and longer spans. Come to find out they completely dropped the ball on that.

The thing is, for all the (valid) complaints about overcrowding, there actually are some areas where the service runs in excess. The SIM5X/6X are a complete waste (start at the South Beach Park & Ride and run straight to Manhattan, AM-only). The SIM3C runs in excess while the SIM4C clearly has inadequate service (and I don't know if you've seen the social media posts, but the evening crowding has spread to the SIM1C). I've been posting that people should be emailing the MTA even if they're using a backup option (because if you're using a backup option every day, then at that point, it's become your main option which means that your regular route. As SIMplicity said, it's very likely that people are walking to the SIM1 on Broadway when the SIM7 would work better for them if it were scheduled properly.

I mean, those added runs aren't even on the official schedules yet. Unless you're constantly monitoring the MTA's website, how are you supposed to know which trips are added? They kept on saying "We'll make tweaks as needed". A "tweak" is what they did with the SIM34 where they added an extra bus per hour (so they brought headways down from 12 minutes to 10 minutes for a 2 hour period). What's needed on routes like the SIM4C, SIM7, and all those routes that have giant gaps between peak and off-peak service (too many to list) isn't a "tweak". Changing the whole routing to split service between 5th & Lexington isn't a "tweak". 

As the lady from the SIM7 said, they need this to blow up in their face for them to get the message. And it's sad because a lot of time went into this, and there are some areas who did in fact benefit (as I said, I like the route structure on the South Shore overall, and I like that the "via NJ" buses will take the 42nd Street approach instead of the more congested 34th Street approach into/out of the Lincoln Tunnel). 

21 hours ago, SIMplicity said:

I don’t know how crowded the buses are after 6pm but I think they have excess service during the end of the PM rush. A lot of the scheduling was obviously piece-meal. So they roughly gave the SIM3 the X10B/X10 schedule in the afternoon rush. This means that SIM3 service runs every 12 minutes from 5-6pm like the X10B, and every 10 minutes from 6-7pm like the X10, which doesn’t make any sense. The X10 from 6-7pm covered both downtown and midtown on those 10-minute headways while the SIM3 covers only midtown so they can cut/redistribute some service there.

Same with the SIM10, but I would guess the buses are well under capacity after 7pm. From 7-8pm they gave it the X1 schedule so it runs on 8-minute headways. But the X1 covered downtown, Union Square and midtown on those headways, while the SIM10 only covers midtown. So they should cut service there and give the SIM10 something like 15-minute headways (the SIM1 downtown runs on 15 minute headways during that time period). And overcrowding shouldn't be a problem, they just added two evening SIM6 trips. And maybe they can use the cut SIM10 trips to add some SIM7 trips.

Actually, it's even worse. The SIM3 is officially "the old X10", but 90% of the route is the old X12/42. The X12 ran 3 buses in the 6-7pm hour. So you get the Midtown X12 riders, but not the Downtown/Greenwich Village X12 riders, you get some X10B/14 riders heading to Port Richmond, and that's about it. Service every 20 minutes is sufficient, assuming everything is running close to schedule. Maybe every 15 minutes if you assume the quicker service will attract some more riders, but that's about it. (The actual X10 ridership from Midtown will supposedly primarily be accommodated by the SIM31, which I've heard reports of overcrowding on because they didn't increase the service to accommodate both X10B & X31 riders)

For the SIM10, I agree. The X5 used to run every 20 minutes after 7pm, but at the same time, you already have the SIM6 every 30 minutes. So a bus every 15 minutes on the SIM10 is 6 buses per hour which should be enough.

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Has anyone ridden the SIM8 yet?

I rode the SIM8 coming home every day from work (7 train to either Bryant Park or PABT to catch it). (And to work for the past 2 days. For the first 3 days of the change, I rode the SIM4 to the 4/5 to the 7). I saw the SIM8X once going towards work and once going home from work, but I didn't count how many riders were on it.

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh you would? Well wait for the SIM7 Downtown by the WTC. You likely won't get a seat and will have the luxury to stand for $6.50.

You likely won't be able to get on the first bus either. Buses are full to the front door and turning people away on that route.

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Well, people sure as f*** are "Letting their voices be heard" now.

Politics...

How many lies can we sell to the public that'll make US look good !

Technically, that's not a lie. Notice how they said "end-to-end running times", and your commute will be "up to" 20 minutes shorter (also notice the phrase "up to")

A B/O posted some information from a booklet they gave out. They labeled the SIM3/3C as "the old X10" and the SIM6 as "the old X7". As far as I'm concerned, the SIM3/3C is the old X12/42 and the SIM6 is the old X5. But when I saw that pamphlet (I had a meeting with that SIM7 lady and she pulled it out of her purse to show it to me) it all clicked.

If a passenger used to ride the X10 from Midtown to Port Richmond, technically, they do save 20 minutes (I'll ignore the fact that the bus terminates at Central Park South instead of 57th & 3rd for now). But as you know, the overwhelming majority of X10 riders do not make that trip. The same thing with the X7: If somebody actually wanted to get from Midtown to the ETC, they would take a route like the X17J. That explains why they just routed the Midtown buses onto the FDR willy-nilly and completely ignored riders south of 23rd Street. That explains why they thought the SIM8 evening service would accommodate so many X17 riders (I bet they'll take that shuttle and count it towards their SIM8 stats somehow. Eliminating the entire X17 north of the ETC will really save a lot of runtime). That explains why they copied and pasted the X14 schedule from Midtown to Downtown (look, he left at 3:20pm and got back to Staten Island a whole hour earlier!) The sad thing is, they could've run adequate service for those Greenwich Village and Downtown riders if they had only bothered to proofread the schedules, especially with the extra $1 million they supposedly added.

It reminds me of what BrooklynBus said with the SBS routes. Sure, the running time decreased, but that definitely doesn't equate to the passengers (i.e. The reason the route even exists) saving that amount of time. (Even on a route like the S79 with a lot of end-to-end ridership doesn't have all of its ridership (I doubt even a majority, though it is a lot) between the SI Mall & Bay Ridge, or else they would take the X17 route to get over the bridge which is quicker than Hylan). 

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

This, as well as other reasons, are why the SIMs fail and get crowded constantly. How hard it is to follow a schedule at this time especially given that you are supposed to be in Manhattan after the inbound trip anyways?

Some of them deadhead from Staten Island (some drivers do split shifts, but some are PM-only)

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

04:00 is not the heart of rush hour and it’s also Friday, thus lighter crowds.

When is the heart of rush hour?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

When is the heart of rush hour?

05:00pm on... You got lucky... The gaps down there have been 25-30 minutes.

[MysteriousBtrain]

13 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Some of them deadhead from Staten Island (some drivers do split shifts, but some are PM-only)

That's true. Not all buses stay in Manhattan. But I still say if more buses were stored in Manhattan this could of been at least slightly better.

Also this would never happen knowing MTA but I think some of these routes should at least have full weekday service at least in peak directions. I think the X17J was one that did this?

[Lawrence St]

12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

05:00pm on... You got lucky... The gaps down there have been 25-30 minutes.

I hate being lucky 😡

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

That's true. Not all buses stay in Manhattan. But I still say if more buses were stored in Manhattan this could of been at least slightly better.

Also this would never happen knowing MTA but I think some of these routes should at least have full weekday service at least in peak directions. I think the X17J was one that did this?

No. The X17J was peak only to and from Staten Island. The X17C ran daily.

[checkmatechamp13]

8 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

That's true. Not all buses stay in Manhattan. But I still say if more buses were stored in Manhattan this could of been at least slightly better.

Also this would never happen knowing MTA but I think some of these routes should at least have full weekday service at least in peak directions. I think the X17J was one that did this?

The normal X17 did something like that (Staten Island-bound service started at 10:25am and ran for the rest of the day, and Manhattan-bound service ended at 4:16pm from Huguenot). Weekend service started early in the morning heading back and finished later going in (so it ran for most of the day, but service later in the evening wasn't available)

The X27/28 also do something like that, where outbound buses don't start until 8:15am and the last inbound bus is at 5pm.

The X17, X27, and X28 used to be weekday-only routes. The X27/28 got weekend service in the early 2000s I believe. The X17 had Saturday service for a while (I believe since the late 1990s or early 2000s) and got Sunday service in 2012. 

The X5, X12, and X22 had long spans (especially in the PM rush), but they didn't really run too far into the off-peak period.

[SIMplicity]

*sarcasm* Thanks for tuning into MTA BusTime: Off-Peak Edition! In today’s episode, we see not one, but TWO SIM1Cs leave together at 8:04pm! Because 3C/4C commuters LOVE to watch 1C after 1C pass them by! And where is the driver of the first 3C at 8:00pm? He’s sitting on 6th Avenue at 57th Street! It will only take him until 8:11 before he realizes that his run started 11 minutes ago! And the star of tonight’s episode is the SIM4C! The first run reaches Worth Street a mere 31 minutes late!! Incredible! And the 7:20 run leaves CPS at 7:40, and the 7:40 run leaves just before 8:00! So, they just drop the 8:00 run altogether! Genius! 4C having hiccups again? Don’t worry, it’s the SIM8 to the rescue! Where’s the 8:30 SIM8? Nobody knows! Why in the world would any evening commuters opt to take the 1C instead?! *end sarcasm*

30 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

the SIM4C clearly has inadequate service (and I don't know if you've seen the social media posts, but the evening crowding has spread to the SIM1C)

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

*sarcasm* Thanks for tuning into MTA BusTime: Off-Peak Edition! In today’s episode, we see not one, but TWO SIM1Cs leave together at 8:04pm! Because 3C/4C commuters LOVE to watch 1C after 1C pass them by! And where is the driver of the first 3C at 8:00pm? He’s sitting on 6th Avenue at 57th Street! It will only take him until 8:11 before he realizes that his run started 11 minutes ago! And the star of tonight’s episode is the SIM4C! The first run reaches Worth Street a mere 31 minutes late!! Incredible! And the 7:20 run leaves CPS at 7:40, and the 7:40 run leaves just before 8:00! So, they just drop the 8:00 run altogether! Genius! 4C having hiccups again? Don’t worry, it’s the SIM8 to the rescue! Where’s the 8:30 SIM8? Nobody knows! Why in the world would any evening commuters opt to take the 1C instead?! *end sarcasm*

 

God help us all if this is the future of bus service in this city...