Why doesn't the MTA accept buses with Voith transmissions.

[RSMG106]

I'm brand new to the forums, and I need to ask. Why doesn't the TA or MTA Bus accept Voith transmissions in their buses. For years, I've been riding on the late Orion V from 1998-99, the D60s, and the TMC and Novabus Rtses. Those where equipped with Allison transmissions. I also rode on the Novabus Lfs Artics. Those were equipped with ZF Ecolife transmissions. In 2008, they tested the 2007 Novabus LFS Artic for demonstration purposes. This bus was equipped with the Voith D864.5 transmissions. Now, with these out of the way, why did the MTA accepted Voith transmissions after 2008?

[trife86]

Maybe cause nothing can kill a 6sp Allison

[RSMG106]

3 hours ago, RSMG106 said:

I'm brand new to the forums, and I need to ask. Why doesn't the TA or MTA Bus accept Voith transmissions in their buses. For years, I've been riding on the late Orion V from 1998-99, the D60s, and the TMC and Novabus Rtses. Those where equipped with Allison transmissions. I also rode on the Novabus Lfs Artics. Those were equipped with ZF Ecolife transmissions. In 2008, they tested the 2007 Novabus LFS Artic for demonstration purposes. This bus was equipped with the Voith D864.5 transmissions. Now, with these out of the way, why did the MTA accepted Voith transmissions after 2008?

"didn't accepted" Sorry if I didn't see the error while typing.

[East New York]

There are quite a few reasons actually. The main one being Allison and ZF are the most reliable. To another extent, MTA is always willing to test other hardware, components, parts, systems, and subsystems. 

Another major reason is logistics, maintenance, and uniformity. The more you introduce, the higher the cost. I personally like the Voith, but would not recommend it for heavy-duty MTA service. 

[RSMG106]

Thanks for the info East New York. I actually was kind of concerned regarding Voith being in MTA service. It's kind of different from Allison or ZF, but maybe it was designed for small to medium service. Heck, most transit operators operate on Voith, with a mix of Allison or ZF, including LACMTA.

[East New York]

1 hour ago, RSMG106 said:

Thanks for the info East New York. I actually was kind of concerned regarding Voith being in MTA service. It's kind of different from Allison or ZF, but maybe it was designed for small to medium service. Heck, most transit operators operate on Voith, with a mix of Allison or ZF, including LACMTA.

No problem.

Many agencies do operate them however a substantial amount of them do not. Most of the larger agencies actually do not operate Voith in America, and tend to lead towards Allison, which is the most popular, and ZF which comes in at number 2. Voith's are more prevalent in the small and midsize ranges that don't require that much demand. You won't see those deployed in heavy service at the largest American agencies. It's a great transmission, but it doesn't have the presence of the other guys.

The only LACMTA buses that are Voith equipped, are the new El Dorado's. Those are medium-duty buses. Many agencies back in the day, including LACMTA, had Voith Equipped Flxible's. Those were my absolute favorites. 

We have actually had 3 Voith demo's in recent years. MTA has however decided for monetary reasons, logistics, and maintenance to stick with 2 suppliers. If the Voith was introduced, it would drive costs significantly.

 

[RSMG106]

Besides from that, Voith is alright for me, but haven't try it in person. Since that I play OMSI 2, now I know how a Voith sounds. But hopefully, I can ride a bus with Voith in the future.

[aemoreira81]

Curious: who around this region would service a Voith transmission? It seems that the Allison is easiest to service, followed by ZF. A similar example in aviation with Airbus narrow-bodies is CFM vs. IAE...the latter is more reliable but the former has more service centers.

[East New York]

On 9/25/2018 at 11:24 AM, aemoreira81 said:

Curious: who around this region would service a Voith transmission? It seems that the Allison is easiest to service, followed by ZF. A similar example in aviation with Airbus narrow-bodies is CFM vs. IAE...the latter is more reliable but the former has more service centers.

Voith would service it just as the other guys do their own. The nearest service center is in York, PA.

Totally off topic, but as an aircraft maintenance tech, I have to disagree with you on those CFM vs. IAE numbers. 

Overall the CFM is actually more reliable. The IAE is younger, and doesn't have anywhere near as many engines in service, and will never be able to match the numbers of CFM. The V2500-A1 variants suffered some issues that took a while to get under control, and the engine option is no longer available on Next Gen aircraft. The engine was not that popular for many reasons. CFM's are also easier to maintain. The compressor issues they had likely put a nail in the coffin of the V2500 long ago. They were only available in the A320ceo's (318 has a PW6000 option), MD-90 and KC-390, and were not popular at all. Once the A320neo replaces all the olser planes, the V2500 will die with it. It has been replaced by the PW 1000G, as Rolls-Royce exited the market and sold its stake in IAE to PW(UTC).

It does however have a lower fuel burn rate and this is what made it so popular with the A320ceo family, and MD90.

Dispatch Reliability ratings

V2500 - 99.91% reliability

CFM56 - 99.96% reliability

[doglover44]

Why would it drive up costs ?

[Xfer2Nowhere]

Idk if the gear ratios would play into it but the Voiths do seem to have a longer gear ratio that makes it good on the highways but would probably use up more fuel on smaller streets. Just what I notice from the WMATA buses that are equipped with Voiths. The DC area does tend to have faster, wider streets that are more conducive to that. Also IIRC some of them only have 3 speeds.

I do hear the Voith whine on lots of the tourist double-decker buses around here, though, particularly the Gray Line Enviro 500s.