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Via Garibaldi 8

Despite New LIRR President, Delays The Worse In Almost 20 Years

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Data shows the LIRR is just as delayed as ever

By Danielle Furfaro                                                                                        September 5, 2018 | 7:17pm | Updated

commuters-lirr-mta-delays.jpg?quality=90

It’s been months since the MTA forced out former Long Island Rail Road president Patrick Nowakowskibecause of the commuter rail’s lousy performance, and it still hasn’t improved, according to new statistics released by the agency.

The LIRR’s on-time performance hit 88.9 percent in July, much lower than the same time period in last year, when it was 93.1 percent.

That abysmal number brings the railroad’s year-to-date on-time performance rate to 90.4, which is slightly lower than the same period last year – 90.6.

Those delays were the worst that they had been in 18 years.

Nearly 21,400 LIRR trains were late, canceled or terminated mid-run in 2017, a 20 percent increase over 2016 and the poorest numbers in 18 years, according to a study done earlier this year by State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli.

It was so bad that the MTA forced out Nowakowski and replaced him with veteran engineer Phil Eng.

The MTA is in the midst of a $6 billion modernization project that it hopes will stem the delays, said agency officials.

“Through the LIRR Forward plan, we are targeting the root causes of delays with aggressive near term work on our most problematic areas and making sure that improvements can be seen and felt as quickly as possible,” Eng said in a statement.

Source: https://nypost.com/2018/09/05/data-shows-the-lirr-is-just-as-delayed-as-ever/

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Long Island RailRoad? Delays?... That's prePOSterous.

I ditched the ride today; took it upon myself to engage in "car free day" (or whatever the heck it's called) a little early..... Felt funny doing my old commute, but what the hell....

Yep, took a dollar cab to the furnace that is the (2) at Church ave (at an already stifling 87 degrees out!) at about, oh, a quarter to 5.... Yeah, had to put up with 2 stinky homeless guys festering the subway car I was in, but it's only 15 mins, so it's s'allllll good...... So yeah, took the 5:12 out of Atlantic this morning... I mean, unbelievable.... Inconceivable - We got to Jamaica a whopping 6 minutes early... Waited for the 5:33 to Ronkonkoma over on track 8 - that puppy arrived at 5:31 (2 minutes early).... We departed Jamaica at 5:33 & got to Mineola at 5:48....

Wouldn't ya know it - Right on time!

Edited by B35 via Church

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10 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Long Island RailRoad? Delays?... That's prePOSterous.

I ditched the ride today; took it upon myself to engage in "car free day" (or whatever the heck it's called) a little early..... Felt funny doing my old commute, but what the hell....

Yep, took a dollar cab to the furnace that is the (2) at Church ave (at an already stifling 87 degrees out!) at about, oh, a quarter to 5.... Yeah, had to put up with 2 stinky homeless guys festering the subway car I was in, but it's only fro 15 mins, so it's s'all good...... So yeah, took the 5:12 out of Atlantic this morning... I mean, unbelievable.... Inconceivable - We got to Jamaica a whopping 6 minutes early... Waited for the 5:33 to Ronkonkoma over on track 8 - that puppy arrived at 5:31 (2 minutes early).... We departed Jamaica at 5:33 & got to Mineola at 5:48....

Wouldn't ya know it - Right on time!

I think what's frustrating with this agency in general is they keep raising the fares crying broke. They can't seem to make the service that they currently have scheduled and then they wonder why people are fleeing from it.  The excuse that it's a "national trend" is just insulting.  The LIRR has some of the highest fares around yet they can't afford new trains, and can't make service regularly.  If it's an infrastructure issue which is what they keep trying to blame it on, well that won't be fixed overnight. Come up with a contingency plan that can give people alternatives like they had last summer.  You keep that in place until you have stability in place.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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The 5:12 from Little Neck I have been using to get back from an appointment the past four years is always 6-8 minutes late because the train from Penn that turns into this train is late. I am pleased when it is only 4 minutes late.

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I generally use the LIRR off-peak, so my trains are generally on time. The times I have experienced delays were during peak times,sometimes waiting for a slot a Jamaica.

A few times in the evening, westbound Hempstead Branch trains will get held between Bellrose and Queens Village, as they wait for 3 million trains to pass by. (The train has to switch tracks twice to get to the westbound Queens Village platform.

Another thing I've noticed is that even if trains are running express between Jamaica and Penn Station, they won't use the inner tracks, they seem to always use the outside (local) tracks.

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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think what's frustrating with this agency in general is they keep raising the fares crying broke. They can't seem to make the service that they currently have scheduled and then they wonder why people are fleeing from it.  The excuse that it's a "national trend" is just insulting.  The LIRR has some of the highest fares around yet they can't afford new trains, and can't make service regularly.  If it's an infrastructure issue which is what they keep trying to blame it on, well that won't be fixed overnight. Come up with a contingency plan that can give people alternatives like they had last summer.  You keep that in place until you have stability in place.  

The unpopular thing to say on this forums is that you really don't need all those conductors. LIRR operating costs are so high because they have so many more employees per train.

IIRC, one of the last posts that was public on the LIRR Today was a post describing all the crazy ass overtime clauses in the contract that make LIRR service so expensive. Some more egregious ones included the fact that a crew working electric and diesel in one shift had to be paid for two shifts. And some other crazy nonsense.

Edited by bobtehpanda
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15 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

IIRC, one of the last posts that was public on the LIRR Today was a post describing all the crazy ass overtime clauses in the contract that make LIRR service so expensive. Some more egregious ones included the fact that a crew working electric and diesel in one shift had to be paid for two shifts. And some other crazy nonsense

That explains some of their service/operational choices.

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37 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

That explains some of their service/operational choices.

 

53 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

The unpopular thing to say on this forums is that you really don't need all those conductors. LIRR operating costs are so high because they have so many more employees per train.

IIRC, one of the last posts that was public on the LIRR Today was a post describing all the crazy ass overtime clauses in the contract that make LIRR service so expensive. Some more egregious ones included the fact that a crew working electric and diesel in one shift had to be paid for two shifts. And some other crazy nonsense.

Yeah which is why the prices are so absurd and the service so limited...

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

Yeah which is why the prices are so absurd and the service so limited...

That's one of the reasons.

The price is also very high to keep the poors out. Nassau rhetoric is very anti-poor; look at what they did to NICE. 

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6 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

That's one of the reasons.

The price is also very high to keep the poors out. Nassau rhetoric is very anti-poor; look at what they did to NICE. 

They don't even want a poor door. lol

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18 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think what's frustrating with this agency in general is they keep raising the fares crying broke. They can't seem to make the service that they currently have scheduled and then they wonder why people are fleeing from it.  The excuse that it's a "national trend" is just insulting.  The LIRR has some of the highest fares around yet they can't afford new trains, and can't make service regularly.  If it's an infrastructure issue which is what they keep trying to blame it on, well that won't be fixed overnight. Come up with a contingency plan that can give people alternatives like they had last summer.  You keep that in place until you have stability in place.  

For me, it's not (primarily) even the raising of the fares... It's the incompetence, stupefaction, & this façade like they're trying to improve public transit in this city, when the reality is that the very antithesis to that is happening for so many commuters....

The raising of fares is the slap in the face AFAIC.... Not only are y'all going to take what we GIVE you (quality be damned), but your wallet's going to be stretched even thinner, on top of it.

13 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I generally use the LIRR off-peak, so my trains are generally on time. The times I have experienced delays were during peak times,sometimes waiting for a slot a Jamaica.

A few times in the evening, westbound Hempstead Branch trains will get held between Bellrose and Queens Village, as they wait for 3 million trains to pass by. (The train has to switch tracks twice to get to the westbound Queens Village platform.

Another thing I've noticed is that even if trains are running express between Jamaica and Penn Station, they won't use the inner tracks, they seem to always use the outside (local) tracks.

There's always some shit on the Main Line which causes trains to be delayed.... Oh, someone got hit by a train, train late due to a late arriving connection, "due to congestion" (yes, I've actually heard that on the loudspeaker; platform level [Mineola]), due to equipment failure, due to an unauthorized person on the tracks, due to signal trouble, due to this, due to that, blah blah blah.....

I just can't anymore with the LIRR; and I'm a reverse peak traveler that got fed up with all this... I can only imagine the extent of the vexation of peak riders on the RON/OB/PJ lines....

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They don't even want a poor door. lol

They already have one... It's called Queens

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14 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The unpopular thing to say on this forums is that you really don't need all those conductors. LIRR operating costs are so high because they have so many more employees per train.

IIRC, one of the last posts that was public on the LIRR Today was a post describing all the crazy ass overtime clauses in the contract that make LIRR service so expensive. Some more egregious ones included the fact that a crew working electric and diesel in one shift had to be paid for two shifts. And some other crazy nonsense.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/LIRR/documents/full-review.pdf

This is the 2006 report from the MTA Office of the Inspector General that the post you mentioned was based on. The report is over a decade old, but I'm assuming most or all of those work rules are still part of collective bargaining agreements, although the LIRR has taken steps to reduce the triggering of the penalty payments.

The work rule you mentioned where engineers get double the pay for operating a diesel and electric train in the same day is called 'commingling'. What makes commingling really crazy is that under this rule the LIRR's dual-mode locomotives are considered "electric" engines. So an engineer could hypothetically operate a dual-mode locomotive for a short trip from Babylon to Patchogue, and then operate a diesel locomotive a return from Patchogue and Babylon, do literally nothing else for the entire day, and they'd be entitled to double the pay just for that. It's crazy. What makes it worse is that according to the report, this rule on commingling was instituted in the 1960s, long before the LIRR used dual-mode engines and it was less likely for an engineer to use a diesel locomotive and an electric engineer in the same day. Just goes to show you the potential harm of antiquated work rules.

Edited by Mysterious2train

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15 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I generally use the LIRR off-peak, so my trains are generally on time. The times I have experienced delays were during peak times,sometimes waiting for a slot a Jamaica.

A few times in the evening, westbound Hempstead Branch trains will get held between Bellrose and Queens Village, as they wait for 3 million trains to pass by. (The train has to switch tracks twice to get to the westbound Queens Village platform.

Another thing I've noticed is that even if trains are running express between Jamaica and Penn Station, they won't use the inner tracks, they seem to always use the outside (local) tracks.

Yep.  I normally get the 11:02 train to Huntington which goes straight to Jamaica instead of the 11:05pm Babylon local which makes connection to the Far Rockaway train.  There was a sick customer aboard the Huntington, so the  Babylon train went first.  We followed the Babylon all the way to Jamaica instead of running around on the "express" track...

Some people take the 11:02 because the 11:05 is usually SRO....  Quite a few people missed that connection........

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On 9/6/2018 at 2:29 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think what's frustrating with this agency in general is they keep raising the fares crying broke. 

They keep raising fares because State Law requires the (MTA) to raise fares and tolls every two years in perpetuity. (That was the 2010 "bailout" law.)

 

The same elected officials who passed that law then like to complain now.

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53 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

They keep raising fares because State Law requires the (MTA) to raise fares and tolls every two years in perpetuity. (That was the 2010 "bailout" law.)

 

The same elected officials who passed that law then like to complain now.

Right, but I don't think that requirement states that it needs to be a certain percentage, only that they raise it every two years. Given how horrendous service has been across the board, they could give riders a break.

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8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Right, but I don't think that requirement states that it needs to be a certain percentage, only that they raise it every two years. Given how horrendous service has been across the board, they could give riders a break.

 

An increase of zero would violate state law. At least 3% would be needed just to keep up with the unionized employees' annual raises.

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16 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

An increase of zero would violate state law. At least 3% would be needed just to keep up with the unionized employees' annual raises.

Yeah I know, but even some board members have acknowledged the fact that these fare increases are not sustainable... It's also contributing to a decrease in ridership.  We have people out here of limited means that simply cannot afford to pay these LIRR and MNRR fares... College students and the like, let alone the bus and subway fare.  If we were seeing improved service it would be one thing, but we see fares increasing with service decreasing.

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