limitednyc Posted September 9, 2018 Share #1 Posted September 9, 2018 why are they still running xn40's when they have enouph nx60's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Transit Posted September 9, 2018 Share #2 Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, limitednyc said: why are they still running xn40's when they have enouph nx60's? That's maybe for headway boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 9, 2018 Share #3 Posted September 9, 2018 I would ask the opposite.... I want (more) BPH, not more capacity spread out over less BPH.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitednyc Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted September 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, King Transit said: That's maybe for headway boost no 21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said: I would ask the opposite.... I want (more) BPH, not more capacity spread out over less BPH.... no they are regular runs not extras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 9, 2018 Share #5 Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, limitednyc said: no they are regular runs not extras. That's not my point.... You're asking why are they running 40'-ers on the route when JG has enough artics..... What I'm pretty much asking is, why are they even bothering to run artics (especially all of a sudden).... Artics tend to come with frequency decreases.... As a rider, I want more service, not less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitednyc Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share #6 Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, B35 via Church said: That's not my point.... You're asking why are they running 40'-ers on the route when JG has enough artics..... What I'm pretty much asking is, why are they even bothering to run artics (especially all of a sudden).... Artics tend to come with frequency decreases.... As a rider, I want more service, not less... they already ajusted the schedules to reflect artic conversion. They have 38 artics the need 32 for peek service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted September 9, 2018 Share #7 Posted September 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, limitednyc said: they already ajusted the schedules to reflect artic conversion. They have 38 artics the need 32 for peek service. He’s talking about the fact that the headways were increased to reflect the artic conversion which means a decrease in service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted September 10, 2018 Share #8 Posted September 10, 2018 The biggest problem remains Church Avenue itself. There needs to be better syncing of lights between Troy Avenue and Kings Highway, in particular, as well as enforcing bus stop regulations, with more vehicle tows enforced, as the problem of bunching is still a big one. Now, with the schedule adjustment, there might be the question of: are all JG operators qualified on the XN60? An XD60 should have been sent over for driver training at the start of summer pick (different fuel, but same driving specs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted September 10, 2018 Share #9 Posted September 10, 2018 IDK why OP got so many thumbs down, its a legit question IMO. I wonder the same thing myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 10, 2018 Share #10 Posted September 10, 2018 8 hours ago, trainfan22 said: IDK why OP got so many thumbs down, its a legit question IMO. I wonder the same thing myself. I don't think the question is necessarily thumbs down worthy (I also wondered about that myself), but I suppose the reaction is centered around the train of thought that says "so what if every bus on the route isn't an artic".... Personally, I'd rather make a reply to someone than give them a thumbs down..... 12 hours ago, limitednyc said: they already ajusted the schedules to reflect artic conversion. They have 38 artics the need 32 for peek service. Okay.... and they're still running 40 footers on the route. You're asking why.... I, and I'm quite sure those that ended up negging your post, are asking "why not". 8 hours ago, aemoreira81 said: The biggest problem remains Church Avenue itself. There needs to be better syncing of lights between Troy Avenue and Kings Highway, in particular, as well as enforcing bus stop regulations, with more vehicle tows enforced, as the problem of bunching is still a big one. Now, with the schedule adjustment, there might be the question of: are all JG operators qualified on the XN60? An XD60 should have been sent over for driver training at the start of summer pick (different fuel, but same driving specs). No matter when I look at bustime (even during the later hours of the day), it's always at least 1 non-artic on the route (right this second (at time of reply) there's two - #748 & 749)... I don't think it's a lack of qualified operators..... I'm thinking more along the lines of interlining.... As for unsynchronized lights, while true, that's the least of the problems... People around here are increasingly fed up with longer waits for buses.; between the locals & the LTD's, they're used to buses coming in packs in a relatively short amount of time... The MTA claims that it made this move due to increasing ridership; which is horseshit - because the route has been generally transporting the same amt. of riders/day for years now... This isn't some new phenomenon that needed immediate attention to address.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted September 10, 2018 Share #11 Posted September 10, 2018 11 hours ago, B35 via Church said: I don't think the question is necessarily thumbs down worthy (I also wondered about that myself), but I suppose the reaction is centered around the train of thought that says "so what if every bus on the route isn't an artic".... Personally, I'd rather make a reply to someone than give them a thumbs down..... Okay.... and they're still running 40 footers on the route. You're asking why.... I, and I'm quite sure those that ended up negging your post, are asking "why not". No matter when I look at bustime (even during the later hours of the day), it's always at least 1 non-artic on the route (right this second (at time of reply) there's two - #748 & 749)... I don't think it's a lack of qualified operators..... I'm thinking more along the lines of interlining.... As for unsynchronized lights, while true, that's the least of the problems... People around here are increasingly fed up with longer waits for buses.; between the locals & the LTD's, they're used to buses coming in packs in a relatively short amount of time... The MTA claims that it made this move due to increasing ridership; which is horseshit - because the route has been generally transporting the same amt. of riders/day for years now... This isn't some new phenomenon that needed immediate attention to address.... The concept of turning the B35 into an SBS route doesn't really seem too ridiculous if you ask me. The idea here would be just to reduce dwell times at stops, which, in my opinion, is a huge problem. That said, the NYPD would need to really enforce the hell out of fare evasion, and the MTA should increase the fine for fare evasion to 50 times the base fare in effect at the time (which would increase the fine to $137.50), doubling on the second offense, and becoming a misdemeanor on the third. The idea would be to make the punishment so severe as to discourage fare evasion. (The rigid services are runs I imagine are probably interlined with the B70, where a 60-footer would be too much bus.) Now, if the B35 had an SBS variant introduced, should it only run from Brownsville to McDonald Avenue? I do believe the B35 Local could be split into two routes...one that runs from Sunset Park to New York Avenue, then turns up New York Avenue to terminate at Kings County/SUNY Downstate (numbered B34), and one that runs from Brownsville to McDonald Avenue. The B35 SBS could then have its eastern terminus extended to the New Lots Avenue station, then deadheading via New Lots, Georgia, Newport, and Alabama, laying over on New Lots on the far side of Snediker Avenue. As for the B35 Local, I'm okay with having alternate local runs (when the SBS is running) ending at Kings Highway and then turning around (at Ralph/Remsen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 11, 2018 Share #12 Posted September 11, 2018 ^ 1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said: The concept of turning the B35 into an SBS route doesn't really seem too ridiculous if you ask me. The idea here would be just to reduce dwell times at stops, which, in my opinion, is a huge problem. That said, the NYPD would need to really enforce the hell out of fare evasion, and the MTA should increase the fine for fare evasion to 50 times the base fare in effect at the time (which would increase the fine to $137.50), doubling on the second offense, and becoming a misdemeanor on the third. The idea would be to make the punishment so severe as to discourage fare evasion. (The rigid services are runs I imagine are probably interlined with the B70, where a 60-footer would be too much bus.) Now, if the B35 had an SBS variant introduced, should it only run from Brownsville to McDonald Avenue? I do believe the B35 Local could be split into two routes...one that runs from Sunset Park to New York Avenue, then turns up New York Avenue to terminate at Kings County/SUNY Downstate (numbered B34), and one that runs from Brownsville to McDonald Avenue. The B35 SBS could then have its eastern terminus extended to the New Lots Avenue station, then deadheading via New Lots, Georgia, Newport, and Alabama, laying over on New Lots on the far side of Snediker Avenue. As for the B35 Local, I'm okay with having alternate local runs (when the SBS is running) ending at Kings Highway and then turning around (at Ralph/Remsen). A lot of that in that 1st paragraph is too much wishful thinking; namely the whole fare evasion deterrence bit.... Furthermore, such an unwarranted butchering of local service would solve absolutely nothing.... You know with SBS, comes eventual service cuts on that route's corresponding local variant (if applicable).... Whenever they get around to SBS-ing the B35, it'd likely be [the SBS' taking on the current course of the B35 local] & [B35 local service taking on the course of the current LTD's]... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahC99 Posted September 11, 2018 Share #13 Posted September 11, 2018 24 minutes ago, B35 via Church said: ^ A lot of that in that 1st paragraph is too much wishful thinking; namely the whole fare evasion deterrence bit.... Furthermore, such an unwarranted butchering of local service would solve absolutely nothing.... You know with SBS, comes eventual service cuts on that route's corresponding local variant (if applicable).... Whenever they get around to SBS-ing the B35, it'd likely be [the SBS' taking on the current course of the B35 local] & [B35 local service taking on the course of the current LTD's]... Your possible plan for the B35 SBS is what’s happening with Brooklyn SBS routes after the B44 was implemented (think B46 SBS and the upcoming B82 SBS). However, I’m not sure why they have to do that here in Brooklyn, aside from low ridership, which SBS should increase. Honestly, If I were SBS-ing the B35, I would have both operating the full route rather than reversing local-limited service. This way if the has train problems, passengers can quickly get to the and lines further west (I don’t consider the a good alternative since it is one of the slower alternatives to those lines) or to the and lines East. Both would operate every 5 minutes throughout the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 11, 2018 Share #14 Posted September 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said: Your possible plan for the B35 SBS is what’s happening with Brooklyn SBS routes after the B44 was implemented (think B46 SBS and the upcoming B82 SBS). However, I’m not sure why they have to do that here in Brooklyn, aside from low ridership, which SBS should increase. Honestly, If I were SBS-ing the B35, I would have both operating the full route rather than reversing local-limited service. This way if the has train problems, passengers can quickly get to the and lines further west (I don’t consider the a good alternative since it is one of the slower alternatives to those lines) or to the and lines East. Both would operate every 5 minutes throughout the day. None of this is any plan of mine, it's nothing more than a guess as to how the MTA would structure service.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted September 11, 2018 Share #15 Posted September 11, 2018 On 9/9/2018 at 12:50 PM, limitednyc said: why are they still running xn40's when they have enouph nx60's? 2 simple reasons actually. 1- The B35 has always been interlied with other routes and still has a couple of those trips. 2 - Gleason only has 36 artics. Not the 38 that it eventually will. On 9/9/2018 at 2:46 PM, B35 via Church said: I would ask the opposite.... I want (more) BPH, not more capacity spread out over less BPH.... You already know the answer to this bro. We all do! But it ain't happening. lol On 9/9/2018 at 4:46 PM, B35 via Church said: That's not my point.... You're asking why are they running 40'-ers on the route when JG has enough artics..... What I'm pretty much asking is, why are they even bothering to run artics (especially all of a sudden).... Artics tend to come with frequency decreases.... As a rider, I want more service, not less... The sole purpose of SBS is to speed service up, and virtually eliminate dwell times. Nothing more nothing less. It wasn't meant to be some savior of NYC because this place is a different animal. Eventually (if you want to get technical), all buses will be SBS-like by 2040. All will have off board payment, and most high capacity lines will become SBS. In the meanwhile, I feel many of your arguments as I most often agree with you @B35, however, it's so much more to it. It's like fare increases. SBS is here to stay no matter what. It's just going to expand and evolve. As far as artics, 3 door access, greater capacity, lowers fuel consumption and emissions are the main reasons. Another major factor is that MTA has the highest fleet renewal demands of any agency. Replacing standards saves money in many different areas, while simultaneously being able to replace more buses faster. Yes the negative is reduced service, but it's something we have had to adjust to, and they have been here for 20 years now. We would have hundreds more than we do now if MTA had not sued New Flyer over a decade ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 11, 2018 Share #16 Posted September 11, 2018 4 hours ago, East New York said: You already know the answer to this bro. We all do! But it ain't happening. lol Unfortunately.... 4 hours ago, East New York said: The sole purpose of SBS is to speed service up, and virtually eliminate dwell times. Nothing more nothing less. It wasn't meant to be some savior of NYC because this place is a different animal. Eventually (if you want to get technical), all buses will be SBS-like by 2040. All will have off board payment, and most high capacity lines will become SBS. In the meanwhile, I feel many of your arguments as I most often agree with you @B35, however, it's so much more to it. It's like fare increases. SBS is here to stay no matter what. It's just going to expand and evolve. As far as artics, 3 door access, greater capacity, lowers fuel consumption and emissions are the main reasons. Another major factor is that MTA has the highest fleet renewal demands of any agency. Replacing standards saves money in many different areas, while simultaneously being able to replace more buses faster. Yes the negative is reduced service, but it's something we have had to adjust to, and they have been here for 20 years now. We would have hundreds more than we do now if MTA had not sued New Flyer over a decade ago. Oh I get what SBS is supposed to be & that it's going nowhere & what not.... I was asking about artics on the route (esp. all of a sudden).... So what you're basically telling me is that artics on the route is a future ploy for SBS & not this crap about increasing ridership.... Things like that is why you have as many ppl. that are so skeptical of this agency. You're conveying matters from the industry side of things, which is much appreciated (believe me) & taken into consideration.... However, while I'd like to believe that the service will evolve (there's no question that SBS will expand city-wide), when I see local service being bastardized upon the introduction of this service-type to quite a bit of routes, AFAIC, it amounts to a net devolving of bus service.... This is somewhat rhetorical, but why does the MTA have to make local service worse, to have SBS portrayed in a light that it's the best thing since sliced bread (so to speak)? If it was as good as advertised, there'd be zero need for the shenanigans.... That to me, if anything, is irritating - going hell & high water in overselling SBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 via Mosholu Posted September 11, 2018 Share #17 Posted September 11, 2018 10 hours ago, East New York said: We would have hundreds more than we do now if MTA had not sued New Flyer over a decade ago. Why did the even sue New Flyer in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahC99 Posted September 11, 2018 Share #18 Posted September 11, 2018 3 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said: Why did the even sue New Flyer in the first place? Must have something to do with the D60HF, which was discontinued before they could even deliver it (next model was supposed to have fleet numbers 5770-5834). Maybe some one can clarify for me about this lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted September 11, 2018 Share #19 Posted September 11, 2018 4 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said: Why did the even sue New Flyer in the first place? Let’s not even dwell in the past. New Flyer is now delivering good product to the now. Lessons are learned and very soon New York City will be almost 100% New Flyer with some resemblance of Nova Bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted September 11, 2018 Share #20 Posted September 11, 2018 The thing now is, why after ADJUSTING the frequency to artic capacity would they still run 40 ft buses? Wouldn’t the riders lose both ways this way? In both having to wait for a packed bus AND waiting longer for it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdog14 Posted September 11, 2018 Share #21 Posted September 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mtatransit said: The thing now is, why after ADJUSTING the frequency to artic capacity would they still run 40 ft buses? Wouldn’t the riders lose both ways this way? In both having to wait for a packed bus AND waiting longer for it too? There are runs on the B35 that interline with other routes where the artics are overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted September 11, 2018 Share #22 Posted September 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Jdog14 said: There are runs on the B35 that interline with other routes where the artics are overkill. Then it would make sense just to keep 40 foot on the B35 wouldn’t it? This way aleast the riders don’t have to wait as long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdog14 Posted September 11, 2018 Share #23 Posted September 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Mtatransit said: Then it would make sense just to keep 40 foot on the B35 wouldn’t it? This way aleast the riders don’t have to wait as long. Not when the line will eventually be SBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted September 12, 2018 Share #24 Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Jdog14 said: Not when the line will eventually be SBS. The future is probably not SBS, most likely Byford will realize the future is all door boarding. B35 I believe already have TSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted September 12, 2018 Share #25 Posted September 12, 2018 14 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said: Why did the even sue New Flyer in the first place? Long story short, NFI closed the D60HF line while MTA still had open options. They stopped doing business with each other until NFI agreed to resurrect the C40LF to their custom specifications. 7 hours ago, Mtatransit said: The thing now is, why after ADJUSTING the frequency to artic capacity would they still run 40 ft buses? Wouldn’t the riders lose both ways this way? In both having to wait for a packed bus AND waiting longer for it too? I just explained it in a way that I thought was basically self explanatory. Again. The line does NOT have all its artics, AND they are still remaining interlines. The B49 for example has an interlinked run with the B44 SBS so once a day you will see an Artic on the B49. This is how things work to maintain proper service levels. the B35 is over capacity and has needed artics for years. It the 6th heaviest line in the city. The service reductions as scheduled were not enough to cut capacity, which has slightly increased. 5 hours ago, Mtatransit said: Then it would make sense just to keep 40 foot on the B35 wouldn’t it? This way aleast the riders don’t have to wait as long. The wait isn’t that much longer and as mentioned above it’s long overdue. The artics have also proven that they they attract customers on every line they have been placed on in recent years. Especially the new one. At this point I know white a few people who do not take the B35 ever and have been doing it over the last couple weeks. Any line that is convertibles to Artic is most likely going to see minor frequency reductions. Yes the future is all door boarding for all buses. I mentioned that in the title post of this thread and elsewhere. In the meanwhile however, the B35 and every route on the list above are planned for SBS. That’s the current wave of the future and it’s not changing anytime soon. All door boarding cannot even begin to pilot until the new fare system is fully functional And @B35 via Church I will get back to you in full as soon as I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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