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RES2773

S40/90 Extension to Matrix Park

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Hi everyone, I could use some help with a bit of bus route confusion in Staten Island.

As everyone knows, the big news for Staten Island buses recently was the major redesign of the express network, and rightly so. However, when the new map (found here) was put out, I noticed a note in the upper left corner of the page a note about the S40/S90 regarding its extension to the new logistics park. This topic has been discussed here:

That's all well and good, and I waited eagerly to see what would come in the fall. So now it's the fall. And I'm confused.

I went onto the MTA's website today and got the pdf schedule for the 40/90. Hasn't been updated since September of last year. Okay, so the change hasn't happened yet, right? Keep in mind, I live nowhere near SI, so it's not easy for me to check this out firsthand.

In light of the same schedule being in existence, I headed over to my transit app of choice to check out the route. Whoops, it's certainly different. It is showing the new route to the park, with the loop around Goethals Rd and Gulf Ave gone. Now, to make sure this isn't just a data translation issue, I went to BusTime to see it firsthand from the MTA. Same deal. Although, there was a bus on the map approaching where the route would split from where it used to go, at Forest Ave / Morrow St. It arrives at the intersection, at the final stop, and I obviously expected to continue onto the logistics park. Nope, sat there for over five minutes, and then I got tired of watching.

Now, it's always possible the bus had a mechanical issue, but I suspect this has something to do with the new routing. What's getting to me is that on the map, both the old routing (presuming the loop is being eliminated upon the change) and the new routing are shown. What kind of practice is that? Were they planning to remove the old and put a new map out when the change occurs? Given the change in the GTFS data, they clearly didn't.

So, to recap:

  1. Did the new route eliminate the loop towards the Goethals Bridge?
  2. Did the change actually happen fully yet, or did they shorten the route in preparation?
  3. If the change did occur, why hasn't a new schedule come out on the website?
  4. If the change has not taken full effect yet, why would the GTFS data be updated to a route not yet complete?

Thanks in advance if you can answer any of these questions!

By the way, the whole reason I looked into this is because I would've liked to take the S40 to its terminus to start the walk on the Goethals Bridge multi-use path, which, according to the woman on the phone at Port Authority, should open in the next few months.

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11 minutes ago, RES2773 said:

Hi everyone, I could use some help with a bit of bus route confusion in Staten Island.

As everyone knows, the big news for Staten Island buses recently was the major redesign of the express network, and rightly so. However, when the new map (found here) was put out, I noticed a note in the upper left corner of the page a note about the S40/S90 regarding its extension to the new logistics park. This topic has been discussed here:

That's all well and good, and I waited eagerly to see what would come in the fall. So now it's the fall. And I'm confused.

I went onto the MTA's website today and got the pdf schedule for the 40/90. Hasn't been updated since September of last year. Okay, so the change hasn't happened yet, right? Keep in mind, I live nowhere near SI, so it's not easy for me to check this out firsthand.

In light of the same schedule being in existence, I headed over to my transit app of choice to check out the route. Whoops, it's certainly different. It is showing the new route to the park, with the loop around Goethals Rd and Gulf Ave gone. Now, to make sure this isn't just a data translation issue, I went to BusTime to see it firsthand from the MTA. Same deal. Although, there was a bus on the map approaching where the route would split from where it used to go, at Forest Ave / Morrow St. It arrives at the intersection, at the final stop, and I obviously expected to continue onto the logistics park. Nope, sat there for over five minutes, and then I got tired of watching.

Now, it's always possible the bus had a mechanical issue, but I suspect this has something to do with the new routing. What's getting to me is that on the map, both the old routing (presuming the loop is being eliminated upon the change) and the new routing are shown. What kind of practice is that? Were they planning to remove the old and put a new map out when the change occurs? Given the change in the GTFS data, they clearly didn't.

So, to recap:

  1. Did the new route eliminate the loop towards the Goethals Bridge?
  2. Did the change actually happen fully yet, or did they shorten the route in preparation?
  3. If the change did occur, why hasn't a new schedule come out on the website?
  4. If the change has not taken full effect yet, why would the GTFS data be updated to a route not yet complete?

Thanks in advance if you can answer any of these questions!

By the way, the whole reason I looked into this is because I would've liked to take the S40 to its terminus to start the walk on the Goethals Bridge multi-use path, which, according to the woman on the phone at Port Authority, should open in the next few months.

The change hasn't started yet, so that might be the bus laying over to do the trip back from Goethals Road North.

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24 minutes ago, RES2773 said:

Hi everyone, I could use some help with a bit of bus route confusion in Staten Island.

As everyone knows, the big news for Staten Island buses recently was the major redesign of the express network, and rightly so. However, when the new map (found here) was put out, I noticed a note in the upper left corner of the page a note about the S40/S90 regarding its extension to the new logistics park. This topic has been discussed here:

That's all well and good, and I waited eagerly to see what would come in the fall. So now it's the fall. And I'm confused.

I went onto the MTA's website today and got the pdf schedule for the 40/90. Hasn't been updated since September of last year. Okay, so the change hasn't happened yet, right? Keep in mind, I live nowhere near SI, so it's not easy for me to check this out firsthand.

In light of the same schedule being in existence, I headed over to my transit app of choice to check out the route. Whoops, it's certainly different. It is showing the new route to the park, with the loop around Goethals Rd and Gulf Ave gone. Now, to make sure this isn't just a data translation issue, I went to BusTime to see it firsthand from the MTA. Same deal. Although, there was a bus on the map approaching where the route would split from where it used to go, at Forest Ave / Morrow St. It arrives at the intersection, at the final stop, and I obviously expected to continue onto the logistics park. Nope, sat there for over five minutes, and then I got tired of watching.

Now, it's always possible the bus had a mechanical issue, but I suspect this has something to do with the new routing. What's getting to me is that on the map, both the old routing (presuming the loop is being eliminated upon the change) and the new routing are shown. What kind of practice is that? Were they planning to remove the old and put a new map out when the change occurs? Given the change in the GTFS data, they clearly didn't.

So, to recap:

  1. Did the new route eliminate the loop towards the Goethals Bridge?
  2. Did the change actually happen fully yet, or did they shorten the route in preparation?
  3. If the change did occur, why hasn't a new schedule come out on the website?
  4. If the change has not taken full effect yet, why would the GTFS data be updated to a route not yet complete?

Thanks in advance if you can answer any of these questions!

By the way, the whole reason I looked into this is because I would've liked to take the S40 to its terminus to start the walk on the Goethals Bridge multi-use path, which, according to the woman on the phone at Port Authority, should open in the next few months.

Basically when the new Amazon/Matrix Park area opens (sometime during this Fall), that will be the NEW official terminal for the S40/S90. 

As part of the new extension, the bus will still go to the trailer park, and make the loop around the Goethals heading towards Matrix park, however, when heading back to the ferry, it will leave Matrix Park and continue down Forest via regular route. The original route is not affected in any way, except where the bus terminates. 

As of right now, the MTA updated the MTA BusTime data and the Staten Island Map with the new route extension. Only thing that hasn't been updated was the PDF schedule like you mentioned. 

So currently, buses are still terminating at Goethals, and bus drivers still use the display sign reading Goethals, but since BusTime is already updated with the new reroute, S40/S90 buses heading towards Goethals will NOT show up on the map because the destination sign on the buses say Goethals whereas BusTime is looking for buses with the new sign to Matrix Park. 

In my opinion they should've waited until it was at least a week or two before it opened to do the updates, because now you can't track any Goethals bound buses. 

Obviously anyone who will be using the routes to Matrix Park know the area isn't opened yet, so the only people affected right now are the ones who track the S40 heading to Goethals, no buses show up so they have to use the PDF or bus stop schedules. 

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26 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Basically when the new Amazon/Matrix Park area opens (sometime during this Fall), that will be the NEW official terminal for the S40/S90. 

As part of the new extension, the bus will still go to the trailer park, and make the loop around the Goethals heading towards Matrix park, however, when heading back to the ferry, it will leave Matrix Park and continue down Forest via regular route. The original route is not affected in any way, except where the bus terminates. 

As of right now, the MTA updated the MTA BusTime data and the Staten Island Map with the new route extension. Only thing that hasn't been updated was the PDF schedule like you mentioned. 

So currently, buses are still terminating at Goethals, and bus drivers still use the display sign reading Goethals, but since BusTime is already updated with the new reroute, S40/S90 buses heading towards Goethals will NOT show up on the map because the destination sign on the buses say Goethals whereas BusTime is looking for buses with the new sign to Matrix Park. 

In my opinion they should've waited until it was at least a week or two before it opened to do the updates, because now you can't track any Goethals bound buses. 

Obviously anyone who will be using the routes to Matrix Park know the area isn't opened yet, so the only people affected right now are the ones who track the S40 heading to Goethals, no buses show up so they have to use the PDF or bus stop schedules. 

Thanks for the info. I did use the online contact form to ask if a solidified opening date is available. God only knows how long a response will take but they've been very good with intricate and technical GTFS-related questions before, so hopefully I'll get an answer.

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16 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Basically when the new Amazon/Matrix Park area opens (sometime during this Fall), that will be the NEW official terminal for the S40/S90. 

As part of the new extension, the bus will still go to the trailer park, and make the loop around the Goethals heading towards Matrix park, however, when heading back to the ferry, it will leave Matrix Park and continue down Forest via regular route. The original route is not affected in any way, except where the bus terminates. 

As of right now, the MTA updated the MTA BusTime data and the Staten Island Map with the new route extension. Only thing that hasn't been updated was the PDF schedule like you mentioned. 

So currently, buses are still terminating at Goethals, and bus drivers still use the display sign reading Goethals, but since BusTime is already updated with the new reroute, S40/S90 buses heading towards Goethals will NOT show up on the map because the destination sign on the buses say Goethals whereas BusTime is looking for buses with the new sign to Matrix Park. 

In my opinion they should've waited until it was at least a week or two before it opened to do the updates, because now you can't track any Goethals bound buses. 

Obviously anyone who will be using the routes to Matrix Park know the area isn't opened yet, so the only people affected right now are the ones who track the S40 heading to Goethals, no buses show up so they have to use the PDF or bus stop schedules. 

Oooooooh, is that why some buses wont show up on bustime? I notice this happening with the M101/2/3 short turns alot.

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1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Oooooooh, is that why some buses wont show up on bustime? I notice this happening with the M101/2/3 short turns alot.

That's correct.  It can also happen if the driver doesn't put in the correct code.  

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28 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

So Goethals Rd service is permanently discontinued instead of being included in a loop?

Never mind it has no choice but to use the loop.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain
Map was confusing for a second.

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35 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

So Goethals Rd service is permanently discontinued instead of being included in a loop?

Never mind it has no choice but to use the loop.

Yeah its still looping around there but only for matrix park bound, no ferry bound. 

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2 hours ago, trife86 said:

We know of the schedule but it was not going there until today, it was still going to gothels road 

Well the S40 to matrix is trackable on bus time as of this moment.

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2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Well the S40 to matrix is trackable on bus time as of this moment.

Hence why I said today.

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On 10/19/2018 at 6:48 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Union Tpke What document is that from, and what page? I skimmed through this month's NYCT booklet and it's not on there (I mean, it took effect last month, so I'm guessing last month's booklet?)

This month's financial report.

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