Express Bus Advocacy Group

[Paolp]

On 12/19/2018 at 3:21 AM, trife86 said:

Yea that's pretty ridiculous WFC was always pretty heavy when we had the X routes but I never seen it like that. I've seen 20 30people there but that's crazy.

Hi there 

how has it been, this thread has advances quite a lot. Have you had the time to start publishing, the plan you had on your plate? Public awareness definitely is not very high when it comes to traffic and public transport.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, Paolp said:

Hi there 

how has it been, this thread has advances quite a lot. Have you had the time to start publishing, the plan you had on your plate? Public awareness definitely is not very high when it comes to traffic and public transport.  

We are doing well. Today we met with Assemblyman Dinowitz regarding a possible HOV lane or potential mitigation resolutions to address the parking lot that is the Deegan. He has agreed to write to the DOT to request that a study be conducted. We also talked about having the  audited again for express bus service, and it seems that he would like to support that as well given what we’ve found. We have express bus riders from just about every line in the group, and they’ve all been complaining about the same thing with a few exceptions.... Their buses that are scheduled aren’t coming. We see missing buses and bunching at 05:30 in the morning on the BxM9 and missing trips leading to standing room only. It’s truly amazing. Now that we have this set up, we clearly see that this is a problem Citywide. We can’t say that it’s deliberate but you have to wonder at some point if it’s this bad even after they know, you have to wonder if it’s deliberate. In any event, we’ve been sending information to the Comptroller’s Office to show them how they continue to not comply with the 2015 audit on express bus service and we plan to meet in the coming weeks now that we have enough data to examine to show patterns of them being unable to meet service, and what’s amazing is that the same issues Staten Island is seeing is exactly what is happening in the outer boroughs and they didn’t have a redesign, so why the missing buses and SRO buses? We are getting more attention now, that I can assure you.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:25 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

These idiots can't even figure out the bus stops right... They're part of the reason for lines like this:

That stop is the old X3/4/7/9/10B stop (I heard they literally moved it a few feet in one direction and that's about it) . You can ask our friend on the SIM7/9, those lines at that stop are nothing new.

On 12/18/2018 at 9:21 PM, trife86 said:

Yea that's pretty ridiculous WFC was always pretty heavy when we had the X routes but I never seen it like that. I've seen 20 30people there but that's crazy.

That was by design. There's less frequent service on those WFC routes compared to the X system because those routes aren't coming from Midtown (so they don't have the extra Midtown riders justifying extra frequency). So they want the crowds at the WFC to build up a little bit more so that when a bus reaches them it fills up. If they ran the old frequency, buses wouldn't fill up (and that would also take some buses from the SIM6/10 and SIM3/31 where those Midtown riders need them).

The key is, once the buses came, were there enough seats? You can easily get 25-30 people boarding the bus at that stop, but if there's 35 seats left then it's not a problem.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That stop is the old X3/4/7/9/10B stop (I heard they literally moved it a few feet in one direction and that's about it) . You can ask our friend on the SIM7/9, those lines at that stop are nothing new.

That was by design. There's less frequent service on those WFC routes compared to the X system because those routes aren't coming from Midtown (so they don't have the extra Midtown riders justifying extra frequency). So they want the crowds at the WFC to build up a little bit more so that when a bus reaches them it fills up. If they ran the old frequency, buses wouldn't fill up (and that would also take some buses from the SIM6/10 and SIM3/31 where those Midtown riders need them).

The key is, once the buses came, were there enough seats? You can easily get 25-30 people boarding the bus at that stop, but if there's 35 seats left then it's not a problem.

Well if B/Os are saying they’ve never seen them that long before clearly it is new. Filling them up... Sure... What are you even defending when riders down there have been enduring HELL with gaps in service for months? If the buses were coming we wouldn’t see such lines. I’m all for efficiency but this is a joke. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well if B/Os are saying they’ve never seen them that long before clearly it is new. Filling them up... Sure... What are you even defending when riders down there have been enduring HELL with gaps in service for months? If the buses were coming we wouldn’t see such lines. I’m all for efficiency but this is a joke. 

Yeah, it's new and it's by design. What's the problem with a line? There's lines at plenty of bus stops and bus terminals. I've waited at the WFC plenty of times since the redesign for the SIM33 (in lines of similar length)....yeah, the bus comes, the people who don't need that bus step aside, and the 25 people who need the SIM33 get on (and there's plenty of seats to accommodate us) and boom, off to Staten Island. 

Taking a video of a line doesn't tell you anything. Yes, I absolutely agree that gaps in service and bunching and missing buses are unacceptable. But you can't tell that from just a line. I saw that video and I'm like "yeah just another day at the WFC, what's the big deal?" As you saw in the video, there was also a parked bus available (I believe they give the dispatcher 3 for the rush hour but I would have to double-check. Ever since they fixed that mess at the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel a couple of weeks ago I've been able to take the SIM4 as normal and not have to take the SIM33). If/when there's a delay, he puts those buses into service.

As far as I'm concerned, all these pictures and videos of lines do is distract from the actual problems in this system. Delayed/missing buses, bunching, inconvenient connections, etc (some of which is new, and some of which existed in the old system and should've been addressed. Not a new problem but still a problem). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Yeah, it's new and it's by design. What's the problem with a line? There's lines at plenty of bus stops and bus terminals. I've waited at the WFC plenty of times since the redesign for the SIM33 (in lines of similar length)....yeah, the bus comes, the people who don't need that bus step aside, and the 25 people who need the SIM33 get on (and there's plenty of seats to accommodate us) and boom, off to Staten Island. 

Taking a video of a line doesn't tell you anything. Yes, I absolutely agree that gaps in service and bunching and missing buses are unacceptable. But you can't tell that from just a line. I saw that video and I'm like "yeah just another day at the WFC, what's the big deal?" As you saw in the video, there was also a parked bus available (I believe they give the dispatcher 3 for the rush hour but I would have to double-check. Ever since they fixed that mess at the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel a couple of weeks ago I've been able to take the SIM4 as normal and not have to take the SIM33). If/when there's a delay, he puts those buses into service.

As far as I'm concerned, all these pictures and videos of lines do is distract from the actual problems in this system. Delayed/missing buses, bunching, inconvenient connections, etc (some of which is new, and some of which existed in the old system and should've been addressed. Not a new problem but still a problem). 

Dude don’t even try it. Most of the people taking such photos and videos add that there’s been a gap in service, and that is a problem. Additionally these long lines mean people having difficulty getting their bus in some cases where drivers are zooming by thinking they don’t need to stop, so everyone isn’t getting a seat in those cases. Getting a seat is what the  says they want for express bus riders and what they claim they can provide but given how many people are standing packed in the aisles, not so sure that the case.

Lines with fewer stops and they still have these ridiculous gaps in service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Yeah, it's new and it's by design. What's the problem with a line? There's lines at plenty of bus stops and bus terminals. I've waited at the WFC plenty of times since the redesign for the SIM33 (in lines of similar length)....yeah, the bus comes, the people who don't need that bus step aside, and the 25 people who need the SIM33 get on (and there's plenty of seats to accommodate us) and boom, off to Staten Island. 

Taking a video of a line doesn't tell you anything. Yes, I absolutely agree that gaps in service and bunching and missing buses are unacceptable. But you can't tell that from just a line. I saw that video and I'm like "yeah just another day at the WFC, what's the big deal?" As you saw in the video, there was also a parked bus available (I believe they give the dispatcher 3 for the rush hour but I would have to double-check. Ever since they fixed that mess at the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel a couple of weeks ago I've been able to take the SIM4 as normal and not have to take the SIM33). If/when there's a delay, he puts those buses into service.

As far as I'm concerned, all these pictures and videos of lines do is distract from the actual problems in this system. Delayed/missing buses, bunching, inconvenient connections, etc (some of which is new, and some of which existed in the old system and should've been addressed. Not a new problem but still a problem). 

As far as I’m concerned, my main issue with this redesign has been the unreliable service. They have yet to meet the “frequent service” claim, and until they do, I call this redesign a failure. Truth be told, I’ve been lucky to have very fast commutes when I’ve taken a SIM, and my waits haven’t been terrible, but I also know what it is like to wait for an express bus over an hour and have limited options. As I said in the social media group, someone from Oddo’s office should stand at a bus stop and see how many buses come and compare them to the schedule. I think the primary issue is the buses aren’t getting to the passengers as they should be, and thus we are seeing exaggerated levels of overcrowding at bus stops and on the buses.

For that matter, Byfor should come out and have a look. Why not? He claims he rides the subways and spot checks for things, so instead of him sitting in his damn office looking out of his window onto Broadway, come out and see what’s going on.  I’m not going to say more than that because of what I’ve been privy to from my folks on the inside among other things.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Italianstallion]

On 12/21/2018 at 11:24 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We are doing well. Today we met with Assemblyman Dinowitz regarding a possible HOV lane or potential mitigation resolutions to address the parking lot that is the Deegan. He has agreed to write to the DOT to request that a study be conducted. We also talked about having the  audited again for express bus service, and it seems that he would like to support that as well given what we’ve found. We have express bus riders from just about every line in the group, and they’ve all been complaining about the same thing with a few exceptions.... Their buses that are scheduled aren’t coming. We see missing buses and bunching at 05:30 in the morning on the BxM9 and missing trips leading to standing room only. It’s truly amazing. Now that we have this set up, we clearly see that this is a problem Citywide. We can’t say that it’s deliberate but you have to wonder at some point if it’s this bad even after they know, you have to wonder if it’s deliberate. In any event, we’ve been sending information to the Comptroller’s Office to show them how they continue to not comply with the 2015 audit on express bus service and we plan to meet in the coming weeks now that we have enough data to examine to show patterns of them being unable to meet service, and what’s amazing is that the same issues Staten Island is seeing is exactly what is happening in the outer boroughs and they didn’t have a redesign, so why the missing buses and SRO buses? We are getting more attention now, that I can assure you.

One small improvement that will help a bit on the Deegan northbound. The state DOT is about to put a contract out to bid to reconstruct the Deegan between 161 Street and I-95/Alex Hamilton Bridge. As part of this, there will be a fourth northbound lane added in that stretch. That will alleviate the constant backlog of GWB-bound traffic that clogs up the Deegan through-traffic, freeing up the 2 westernmost lanes for through Deegan traffic. Of course, this project won't be finished for about 3 years.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Italianstallion

[Via Garibaldi 8]

45 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

One small improvement that will help a bit on the Deegan northbound. The state DOT is about to put a contract out to bid to reconstruct the Deegan between 161 Street and I-95/Alex Hamilton Bridge. As part of this, there will be a fourth northbound lane added in that stretch. That will alleviate the constant backlog of GWB-bound traffic that clogs up the Deegan through-traffic, freeing up the 2 westernmost lanes for through Deegan traffic. Of course, this project won't be finished for about 3 years.

That’s what we were talking about. A question of how many lanes are available...

[Lil 57]

So today, The 5:35 PM Port-Richmond bound SIM3C trip was 20 minutes late and the 6:30 PM bus is now bunched with the 7:25 PM bus. So there was around a 90-minute gap in SIM3C service. Got to the bus stop around 7:00 PM at 13th Street and decided to take a cab to the 7:30 PM ferry.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

40 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

So today, The 5:35 PM Port-Richmond bound SIM3C trip was 20 minutes late and the 6:30 PM bus is now bunched with the 7:25 PM bus. So there was around a 90-minute gap in SIM3C service. Got to the bus stop around 7:00 PM at 13th Street and decided to take a cab to the 7:30 PM ferry.

We will be speaking about this horrendous contingency plan next month. We took a QM2 trip to Bay Terrace that took almost TWO hours one way. We will be asking for a revised contingency plan, one that we are directly involved in. Unacceptable to have people furious waiting in 30 degree weather for 40 minutes as was the case tonight. People were livid.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Dude don’t even try it. Most of the people taking such photos and videos add that there’s been a gap in service, and that is a problem. Additionally these long lines mean people having difficulty getting their bus in some cases where drivers are zooming by thinking they don’t need to stop, so everyone isn’t getting a seat in those cases. Getting a seat is what the  says they want for express bus riders and what they claim they can provide but given how many people are standing packed in the aisles, not so sure that the case.

Lines with fewer stops and they still have these ridiculous gaps in service.

The only thing mentioned in that post was: 

Quote

Vessey St at 5. James Oddo Max Rose Nicole Malliotakis Danny CassellaWHY???!!!

Yeah, many posts do include information about how long the wait time was, but this wasn't one of them. As a user of that stop, that seems like a pretty typical day. 

Yes, I agree that the dispatchers should monitor the buses better and instruct which buses to stop at which stops. (Depending on the exact circumstance, sometimes it makes sense for the lead bus to skip the stop while the follower takes care of it, and sometimes it just makes sense for both buses to stop there especially if it's towards the end of the pickup portion). But there shouldn't be as much bunching as there is, that much I agree with you.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The only thing mentioned in that post was: 

Yeah, many posts do include information about how long the wait time was, but this wasn't one of them. As a user of that stop, that seems like a pretty typical day. 

Yes, I agree that the dispatchers should monitor the buses better and instruct which buses to stop at which stops. (Depending on the exact circumstance, sometimes it makes sense for the lead bus to skip the stop while the follower takes care of it, and sometimes it just makes sense for both buses to stop there especially if it's towards the end of the pickup portion). But there shouldn't be as much bunching as there is, that much I agree with you.

Well I’m annoyed because I had a specific conversation with my one of my contacts about it and was told the practice was already in place. Seems like piss poor execution. In fact there are supposed to be extra folks out for all of the boroughs monitoring express bus service because this is the craziest time of the year for the MTA (per my contact). I know they’ve been making changes here and there per my request (and Filippa and her team too), one of them being to put QM express bus riders on to another bus, be it one going to Queens or providing a standby bus to take folks up to 57th or where ever to keep those buses on-time where possible.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Was just informed of the following:

UPDATE to service today and for the holidays: Today, Staten Island express bus service runs REGULARLY. NO reduced schedule. That will be the case from December 26th UNTIL December 31st. For X27, X28, X37, X38, X63, X64, X68 riders, REDUCED service TODAY, AS WELL AS FROM December 26th until December 31st. Check BusTime where possible. All BMs, BxMs, QMs run REGULAR service today as well as from December 26th until December 31st. On Christmas Day (TOMORROW) AND New Year‘s Day, ALL express bus service will operate on a Sunday schedule. If your bus doesn’t run on Sundays, it will NOT operate on these days. For any parents, Metrocards are supposed to be accepted IF your child has school in between now and the New Year (e.g. private school students). 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lil 57]

51 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Was just informed of the following:

UPDATE to service today and for the holidays: Today, Staten Island express bus service runs REGULARLY. NO reduced schedule. That will be the case from December 26th UNTIL December 31st. For X27, X28, X37, X38, X63, X64, X68 riders, REDUCED service TODAY, AS WELL AS FROM December 26th until December 31st. Check BusTime where possible. All BMs, BxMs, QMs run REGULAR service today as well as from December 26th until December 31st. On Christmas Day (TOMORROW) AND New Year‘s Day, ALL express bus service will operate on a Sunday schedule. If your bus doesn’t run on Sundays, it will NOT operate on these days. For any parents, Metrocards are supposed to be accepted IF your child has school in between now and the New Year (e.g. private school students). 

I don't know why they didn't release a "Holiday Schedule" for the week. Since I live near the beginning of the SIM3C/3C/35 BusTime is going to be not available to me. 

If  Bus can make a special schedule for a few days of the year, NYCT can do it for a whole week.

I have a feeling that NYCT might just have buses leave whenever, even if an hour passed since the last bus.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Lil 57

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I don't know why they didn't release a "Holiday Schedule" for the week. Since I live near the beginning of the SIM3C/3C/35 BusTime is going to be not available to me. 

If  Bus can make a special schedule for a few days of the year, NYCT can do it for a whole week.

I have a feeling that NYCT might just have buses leave whenever, even if an hour passed since the last bus.

I saw the info this morning first hand so it’s correct. It’s not a holiday schedule today nor from 12.26 to 12.31. It’s regular service for SIM buses. Tomorrow and New Year’s Day Sunday service. They will also be adding extra buses today between 12-3 as needed on the off-peak lines.

[Lil 57]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I saw the info this morning first hand so it’s correct. It’s not a holiday schedule today nor from 12.26 to 12.31. It’s regular service for SIM buses. Tomorrow and New Year’s Day Sunday service. They will also be adding extra buses today between 12-3 as needed on the off-peak lines.

So only the NYCT routes outside of SI are running on a reduced schedule for this week?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Lil 57 said:

So only the NYCT routes outside of SI are running on a reduced schedule for this week?

That’s correct. No schedule for those lines. That’s the X27, X28, X37, X38, X63, X64 and X68. There IS a schedule, just not released to the public. 

[Lil 57]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That’s correct. No schedule for those lines. That’s the X27, X28, X37, X38, X63, X64 and X68. There IS a schedule, just not released to the public. 

Why didn't they release them to the public? People who take those buses should know when their bus is coming, not fun waiting forever in the cold.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Why didn't they release them to the public? People who take those buses should know when their bus is coming, not fun waiting forever in the cold.

My guess is so that they can run service however. Allows them to be less accountable, so if a trip can’t be filled, the public can’t say well this bus was on the schedule and it didn’t come. Something we want changed. Have a schedule available to the public and have it followed.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[trife86]

56 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Why didn't they release them to the public? People who take those buses should know when their bus is coming, not fun waiting forever in the cold.

Lol It's not that cold today btw.

Anyway they just call it a modified schedule and they do play announcement on it over the bus radios saying there will be longer wait times due to lower frequencies.

Edited December 24, 2018 by trife86

[Via Garibaldi 8]

22 minutes ago, trife86 said:

Lol It's not that cold today btw.

Anyway they just call it a modified schedule and they do play announcement on it over the bus radios saying there will be longer wait times due to lower frequencies.

Yeah but they can just post that schedule so people know. They have specific schedules for  Bus on various holidays. NYCT can do they same thing.

[checkmatechamp13]

 

7 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I don't know why they didn't release a "Holiday Schedule" for the week. Since I live near the beginning of the SIM3C/3C/35 BusTime is going to be not available to me. 

If  Bus can make a special schedule for a few days of the year, NYCT can do it for a whole week.

 I have a feeling that NYCT might just have buses leave whenever, even if an hour passed since the last bus.

I agree 100% that they should release that schedule as a simple PDF.

Google Transit and the MTA Trip Planner usually have the schedules programmed in. When I went to work on the Day After Thanksgiving, Google Transit wasn't updated (it showed a regular weekday schedule) but I checked BusTime and buses were coming every 20-30 minutes (which was the reduced weekday schedule). Then someone texted me to check the MTA Trip Planner which had the correct schedule available.

This week will be regular weekday service (Christmas & New Year's are a Sunday schedule).

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That’s correct. No schedule for those lines. That’s the X27, X28, X37, X38, X63, X64 and X68. There IS a schedule, just not released to the public. 

I checked the GTFS feed for New Year's Eve and there's no consistency. For example, the X27 seems to be operating a slightly modified schedule (not even reduced, like literally they shifted a couple of trips around by a few minutes and that's it). By contrast, I checked the X68 and it has 6 trips in the PM compared to the regular schedule which has 10 trips.

If I can I'll see if I can post up the departure times when I have the time. (From the terminal, I'm definitely not doing it stop by stop. Honestly I barely even want to do that. Too time-consuming and it's honestly the MTA's job anyway. They have the schedule ready, just post it up for crying out loud).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

I agree 100% that they should release that schedule as a simple PDF.

Google Transit and the MTA Trip Planner usually have the schedules programmed in. When I went to work on the Day After Thanksgiving, Google Transit wasn't updated (it showed a regular weekday schedule) but I checked BusTime and buses were coming every 20-30 minutes (which was the reduced weekday schedule). Then someone texted me to check the MTA Trip Planner which had the correct schedule available.

This week will be regular weekday service (Christmas & New Year's are a Sunday schedule).

I checked the GTFS feed for New Year's Eve and there's no consistency. For example, the X27 seems to be operating a slightly modified schedule (not even reduced, like literally they shifted a couple of trips around by a few minutes and that's it). By contrast, I checked the X68 and it has 6 trips in the PM compared to the regular schedule which has 10 trips.

If I can I'll see if I can post up the departure times when I have the time. (From the terminal, I'm definitely not doing it stop by stop. Honestly I barely even want to do that. Too time-consuming and it's honestly the MTA's job anyway. They have the schedule ready, just post it up for crying out loud).

Exactly. Even my people were talking about how ridiculous it is.

[QM1to6Ave]

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Was just informed of the following:

UPDATE to service today and for the holidays: Today, Staten Island express bus service runs REGULARLY. NO reduced schedule. That will be the case from December 26th UNTIL December 31st. For X27, X28, X37, X38, X63, X64, X68 riders, REDUCED service TODAY, AS WELL AS FROM December 26th until December 31st. Check BusTime where possible. All BMs, BxMs, QMs run REGULAR service today as well as from December 26th until December 31st. On Christmas Day (TOMORROW) AND New Year‘s Day, ALL express bus service will operate on a Sunday schedule. If your bus doesn’t run on Sundays, it will NOT operate on these days. For any parents, Metrocards are supposed to be accepted IF your child has school in between now and the New Year (e.g. private school students). 

 

I love taking the QM's home on Christmas eve...I took the 6:45 pm QM31, and there were only 3 of us on the bus. The B/O's today were especially nice as well...I don't think they were the regulars. My off-peak Manhattan-bound QM6 B/O had us transfer to a waiting QM at 36th and 6th to make the rest of the loop after clearing it with the dispatcher. 

New Years Eve, on the other hand...I avoid express buses like the plague after about 2 pm. One of the few days where the subway is better than the bus going back to Queens

Edited December 25, 2018 by QM1to6Ave