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Via Garibaldi 8

Express Bus Advocacy Group

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Just now, trainfan22 said:

 How so? There's around 40 pre CT MCI's on SI, the 4300s are from 2004 (Hybrids from that same year are currently being retired) which is batch of 30 buses, and the rest are 2002 MCI's. After those are retired they will have roughly 10 extra buses for spares or service increases or whatever. 

The 4300's are from 2007 not 2004, this year they reached the 12 year mark, which means that they are due for retirement soon due to the 12 year replacement plan.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

The 4300's are from 2007 not 2004, this year they reached the 12 year mark, which means that they are due for retirement soon due to the 12 year replacement plan.

Whoops, my bad. All this time I thought those were from 2004 lmao, just did my googles and the oldest batch of orange sign MCI's in MTA Bus is from 05, not 04. I always thought the 4300s came in around when that first batch of MTA Bus MCI's started coming in.

 

 

With that being said, it would make more sense for them to go to MTA Bus to retire buses older than 07, unless the 4300s are in really bad shape, IDK what kinda shape their in.

Edited by trainfan22

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

 How so? There's around 40 pre CT MCI's on SI, the 4300s are from 2004 (Hybrids from that same year are currently being retired) which is batch of 30 buses, and the rest are 2002 MCI's. After those are retired they will have roughly 10 extra buses for spares or service increases or whatever. 

Copy. You got a point. The oldest buses are 15 years old. Definitely have to go. Only if the TA ordered more CT’s when they had the opportunity instead of being stuck with prevosts. 

(I could be wrong) However, are the CT’s being discontinued after this year or in 2020. Only reason I ask is b/c (NJT) has a good chunk of those 19’s and 20’s CT’s in rolling stock. 

Edited by Future ENY OP
Retract on last statement

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1 minute ago, Future ENY OP said:

Copy. You got a point. Those buses are 15 years old. Definitely have to go. Only if the TA ordered more CT’s when they had the opportunity instead of being stuck with prevosts. 

(I could be wrong) However, are the CT’s being discontinued after this year or in 2020. Only reason I ask is b/c (NJT) has a good chunk of those 19’s and 20’s CT’s in rolling stock. 

I made an mistake about 4300s age, they are 12 years old, not 15, my bad lol

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1 minute ago, trainfan22 said:

I made an mistake about 4300s age, they are 12 years old, not 15, my bad lol

Those came in ‘07. Correct. 

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7 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Those came in ‘07. Correct. 

Yes

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Was Ulmer Park Depot the first depot to have the 4300-4329 MCIs?

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Just now, Calvin said:

Was Ulmer Park Depot the first depot to have the 4300-4329 MCIs?

I believe so than it went to Queens Village and from Queens Village to Staten Island. (Correct)

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You gotta remember that this order starts in 2020 and will likely go into 2021. By the time the 4300's start to retire they will be about 14 yrs old.

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I never understood why those two routes never got taken over by the MTA with the rest of the PBLs. Could you imagine if Green Lines or Jamaica Bus still existed? The sh** service we see today would be a godsend compared to the garbage those PBLs would be running 

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10 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I never understood why those two routes never got taken over by the MTA with the rest of the PBLs. Could you imagine if Green Lines or Jamaica Bus still existed? The sh** service we see today would be a godsend compared to the garbage those PBLs would be running 

I thought Green was the only PBL that wasn’t terrible (or was it NYBS?)

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10 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I thought Green was the only PBL that wasn’t terrible (or was it NYBS?)

NYBS had amazing maintenance from what i heard. Liberty Lines tried to provide good service, keeping a few buses in midtown in case of overcrowding. Jamaica had good maintenance(??)

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20 minutes ago, Orion6025 said:

NYBS had amazing maintenance from what i heard. Liberty Lines tried to provide good service, keeping a few buses in midtown in case of overcrowding. Jamaica had good maintenance(??)

NYBS #1. Maintenance 

Liberty Lines: Best ads. Wrapped buses 

Command: Good service. About a dozen MCI’s didn’t have governs. 

Jamaica- Maintenance was OK! 

GBL- complete dump. 

Triboro- Complete Dump

Queens Surface: Look at # 2. 

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1 hour ago, Orion6025 said:

NYBS had amazing maintenance from what i heard. Liberty Lines tried to provide good service, keeping a few buses in midtown in case of overcrowding. Jamaica had good maintenance(??)

 

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

NYBS #1. Maintenance 

Liberty Lines: Best ads. Wrapped buses 

Command: Good service. About a dozen MCI’s didn’t have governs. 

Jamaica- Maintenance was OK! 

GBL- complete dump. 

Triboro- Complete Dump

Queens Surface: Look at # 2. 

The private companies also spent to the max on the taxpayer's dime, something that people leave out, so yeah they did a great job and they should have. Easy to do when you have a blank check.  The whole point of (MTA) Bus taking over was to reign in costs to some degree and run more efficiently.  I would argue that both can be done... Great service can be provided and it can be done in a more cost effective manner.

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All buses need to be ungoverned, service would improve, and drivers need to step on it whenever they can. There's no need for buses to be crawling down Riverdale Avenue with no traffic around them

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50 minutes ago, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

All buses need to be ungoverned, service would improve, and drivers need to step on it whenever they can. There's no need for buses to be crawling down Riverdale Avenue with no traffic around them

Why would any bus be crawling down Riverdale Avenue? You make all of these posts complaining with no specifics.

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My 2 cents on the PBL's vs MTA-B...

According to colleagues of mine who live in Throggs Neck and Pelham Bay, they preferred NYBS over MTA-B. NYBS took bills until the MTA-B take-over, they ran on time, and they allowed the drivers to use the fastest route between the last pick-up and first drop off.

Even with the QSC QM's (which I've used since the mid/late 1990's), I've seen first hand how the drivers could use almost any combination of roads (especially east-bound) to avoid traffic. MTA-B is too regimented in this regard (many drivers have expressed this point, as well).

One small benefit to MTA-B....bus tracking and newer buses were brought into Queens. However, we could probably use a few new buses as many of those out of the College Point depot are now about 14 years old (2005 vintage).

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3 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

My 2 cents on the PBL's vs MTA-B...

According to colleagues of mine who live in Throggs Neck and Pelham Bay, they preferred NYBS over MTA-B. NYBS took bills until the MTA-B take-over, they ran on time, and they allowed the drivers to use the fastest route between the last pick-up and first drop off.

Even with the QSC QM's (which I've used since the mid/late 1990's), I've seen first hand how the drivers could use almost any combination of roads (especially east-bound) to avoid traffic. MTA-B is too regimented in this regard (many drivers have expressed this point, as well).

One small benefit to MTA-B....bus tracking and newer buses were brought into Queens. However, we could probably use a few new buses as many of those out of the College Point depot are now about 14 years old (2005 vintage).

I'd argue that BusTime and WiFi are immense benefits. Though, to be fair, if PBL's still existed, it is possible they would have been required to add those in as well. And I agree, CP needs brand new buses ASAP. Some of the odometers on the 3XXX buses read over 4 million miles! (I assume the odometers are correct--assuming they are, this also brings up another question of why some buses have insanely high mileage compared to others. Did some buses get massive rebuilds? Or some buses just got used way more than others? I digress...)

 

The biggest issue I had with QM's under Queens Surface was that buses often were missing, especially on weekends, and no one ever answered the phones in the depot on weekends to tell you if the bus went out or not. And those buses were timed to do an inbound trip immediately followed by an outbound trip, so if that bus went missing, a lot of people were screwed. 

 

As for the combination of roads, that is true. Some of the old-time QSC guys still play around with the roads they use off-peak. That is something I agree should be modified so that dispatchers officially give permission for specific reroutes on the closed-door portion of the runs when there is a bad accident or traffic. 

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https://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/ibo-nyc-savings-mta-takeover-private-bus-routes-arrived-blog-entry-1.1861713

Quote

 

IBO: NYC savings from MTA takeover of private bus routes never arrived

By CELESTE KATZ| NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |JUL 10, 2014 | 10:57 AM

 

The MTA is busy trying to stave off a strike by Long Island Rail Road workers, but a new analysis by the city Independent Budget Office suggests it might want to look at its spending on buses too.

To save money, former Mayor Michael Bloomberg pushed the MTA to take over 82 bus lines, mainly running in Queens, run by seven private franchisees.

Having the agency control the routes, he suggested in 2002, would save the city as much as $175 million a year in subsidies to the private companies.

The MTA took over the last of those lines in 2006 -- but the city isn't reaping the savings, the IBO found.

Instead, the expense to the city of making up the difference between what it costs the MTA to run the buses and the income from fares and taxes has gone up.

"Thanks in part to an influx of new buses, service has improved, but savings have not materialized. The city subsidy to MTA Bus — the subsidiary set up to run the lines — grew from $237 million in fiscal year 2008 to $393 million in 2013," the report released Thursday says.

"The city's payments to MTA Bus since 2008 have outpaced the growth in the operating budgets of both the city and the MTA's other transit divisions."

The city is also shelling out $17 million a year -- up from $14 million in 2008 -- to rent space at depots operated by the same private firms that once ran the bus routes.

 

 

I also recall that Bloomberg withheld money for new buses for the companies.

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57 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I'd argue that BusTime and WiFi are immense benefits. Though, to be fair, if PBL's still existed, it is possible they would have been required to add those in as well. And I agree, CP needs brand new buses ASAP. Some of the odometers on the 3XXX buses read over 4 million miles! (I assume the odometers are correct--assuming they are, this also brings up another question of why some buses have insanely high mileage compared to others. Did some buses get massive rebuilds? Or some buses just got used way more than others? I digress...)

 

The biggest issue I had with QM's under Queens Surface was that buses often were missing, especially on weekends, and no one ever answered the phones in the depot on weekends to tell you if the bus went out or not. And those buses were timed to do an inbound trip immediately followed by an outbound trip, so if that bus went missing, a lot of people were screwed. 

 

As for the combination of roads, that is true. Some of the old-time QSC guys still play around with the roads they use off-peak. That is something I agree should be modified so that dispatchers officially give permission for specific reroutes on the closed-door portion of the runs when there is a bad accident or traffic. 

Wifi is a nice touch, but I use my own phone as a hot-spot. I like the USB ports, though.

As for customer service on the weekends - well, they were at home (they could've handled that better). Perhaps the missing buses on the weekend were more of an issue on the QM1A (GO/NST interlining)? In the mid-90's / early 2000's the weekend service on the QM2 was fine. The QM2 and QM4 were interlined pretty well back then. I even recall a time when the QM4 driver picked up QM2 and QM4 passengers due to a missing QM2, dropped the QM4 passengers off first (lucky for everyone, all of the QM4 passengers were getting off near 164 st, and there was no traffic to speak of on any of the roadways), and then dropped passengers starting at Linden Place and the Whitestone Expwy.....all within about 40-45 min to get to Linden Place. The drivers who handled the evening QM2/4 weekend work new their regulars well, and we knew them.

As I see you're "QM1", I'm also now on the Union Tpke corridor myself. As for the weekend service at present on the QM5/6, it's ok-ish. During the Midtown Tunnel rebuild a year or two ago, I tried the QM5 a couple of times on the weekend and found it to be either delayed, or missing due to a street fair (I'm thinking of this past Labor Day Weekend). To avoid any uncertainty on the weekends, I simply drive, walk, or take the Q27/Q76 up to Bayside / Auburndale and use the Port Washington Line. The City Ticket and a predictable schedule make it more appearing.....and its pretty fast.

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2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

As for the combination of roads, that is true. Some of the old-time QSC guys still play around with the roads they use off-peak. That is something I agree should be modified so that dispatchers officially give permission for specific reroutes on the closed-door portion of the runs when there is a bad accident or traffic. 

Some QM2/20 drivers later in the evening just forget about going over the Queensboro.  They just head down 2nd and make a beeline to the Midtown Tunnel/LIE/GCP in order to make it back in good time.   Better than dealing with the non-synced lights and the Jackson Heights traffic on Northern Blvd.  They should have more flexibility for reroutes like this.

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2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I'd argue that BusTime and WiFi are immense benefits. Though, to be fair, if PBL's still existed, it is possible they would have been required to add those in as well. And I agree, CP needs brand new buses ASAP. Some of the odometers on the 3XXX buses read over 4 million miles! (I assume the odometers are correct--assuming they are, this also brings up another question of why some buses have insanely high mileage compared to others. Did some buses get massive rebuilds? Or some buses just got used way more than others? I digress...)

 

The biggest issue I had with QM's under Queens Surface was that buses often were missing, especially on weekends, and no one ever answered the phones in the depot on weekends to tell you if the bus went out or not. And those buses were timed to do an inbound trip immediately followed by an outbound trip, so if that bus went missing, a lot of people were screwed. 

 

As for the combination of roads, that is true. Some of the old-time QSC guys still play around with the roads they use off-peak. That is something I agree should be modified so that dispatchers officially give permission for specific reroutes on the closed-door portion of the runs when there is a bad accident or traffic. 

 

6 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

My 2 cents on the PBL's vs MTA-B...

According to colleagues of mine who live in Throggs Neck and Pelham Bay, they preferred NYBS over MTA-B. NYBS took bills until the MTA-B take-over, they ran on time, and they allowed the drivers to use the fastest route between the last pick-up and first drop off.

Even with the QSC QM's (which I've used since the mid/late 1990's), I've seen first hand how the drivers could use almost any combination of roads (especially east-bound) to avoid traffic. MTA-B is too regimented in this regard (many drivers have expressed this point, as well).

One small benefit to MTA-B....bus tracking and newer buses were brought into Queens. However, we could probably use a few new buses as many of those out of the College Point depot are now about 14 years old (2005 vintage).

Was already noted that (MTA) Bus will receive 257 new express buses in 2020...

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11 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

My 2 cents on the PBL's vs MTA-B...

According to colleagues of mine who live in Throggs Neck and Pelham Bay, they preferred NYBS over MTA-B. NYBS took bills until the MTA-B take-over, they ran on time, and they allowed the drivers to use the fastest route between the last pick-up and first drop off.

Even with the QSC QM's (which I've used since the mid/late 1990's), I've seen first hand how the drivers could use almost any combination of roads (especially east-bound) to avoid traffic. MTA-B is too regimented in this regard (many drivers have expressed this point, as well).

One small benefit to MTA-B....bus tracking and newer buses were brought into Queens. However, we could probably use a few new buses as many of those out of the College Point depot are now about 14 years old (2005 vintage).

That's something MTA bus should really allow. The rule of the nonstop section of all routes should be go where the traffic doesnt.

 

The new buses may look nicer but those old MCI classics were speeding bullets.

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12 hours ago, Uncle Floyd Fan said:

Wifi is a nice touch, but I use my own phone as a hot-spot. I like the USB ports, though.

As for customer service on the weekends - well, they were at home (they could've handled that better). Perhaps the missing buses on the weekend were more of an issue on the QM1A (GO/NST interlining)? In the mid-90's / early 2000's the weekend service on the QM2 was fine. The QM2 and QM4 were interlined pretty well back then. I even recall a time when the QM4 driver picked up QM2 and QM4 passengers due to a missing QM2, dropped the QM4 passengers off first (lucky for everyone, all of the QM4 passengers were getting off near 164 st, and there was no traffic to speak of on any of the roadways), and then dropped passengers starting at Linden Place and the Whitestone Expwy.....all within about 40-45 min to get to Linden Place. The drivers who handled the evening QM2/4 weekend work new their regulars well, and we knew them.

As I see you're "QM1", I'm also now on the Union Tpke corridor myself. As for the weekend service at present on the QM5/6, it's ok-ish. During the Midtown Tunnel rebuild a year or two ago, I tried the QM5 a couple of times on the weekend and found it to be either delayed, or missing due to a street fair (I'm thinking of this past Labor Day Weekend). To avoid any uncertainty on the weekends, I simply drive, walk, or take the Q27/Q76 up to Bayside / Auburndale and use the Port Washington Line. The City Ticket and a predictable schedule make it more appearing.....and its pretty fast.

 

The QMT  rebuild period was by far the worst period to take the QM5/6 on weekends. It really was not representative of the weekend service, which is not nearly as bad as it was then. However, the reroutes for events in Manhattan has been a problem for as long as I can remember...buses end up taking whatever  streets they want, there are never any dispatchers around to tell you where the bus is running, it is a ridiculous free-for-all.

 

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

Was already noted that (MTA) Bus will receive 257 new express buses in 2020...

I'm glad you re-posted this, I missed your original post! That is great news! But, I remember you had previously posted that they are going to retire a lot more buses than they will replace, suggesting future planned express bus cuts. Is the 257 number increased from original estimates? 

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6 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

 

The QMT  rebuild period was by far the worst period to take the QM5/6 on weekends. It really was not representative of the weekend service, which is not nearly as bad as it was then. However, the reroutes for events in Manhattan has been a problem for as long as I can remember...buses end up taking whatever  streets they want, there are never any dispatchers around to tell you where the bus is running, it is a ridiculous free-for-all.

 

I'm glad you re-posted this, I missed your original post! That is great news! But, I remember you had previously posted that they are going to retire a lot more buses than they will replace, suggesting future planned express bus cuts. Is the 257 number increased from original estimates? 

It’s 307 total. I have to look again and see.... 257 is for (MTA Bus) and 50 for Staten Island.

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