MTA express bus changes: New SIM9, South Shore extension and more

[Lil 57]

Quote

We’re expanding the window of service on the SIM3c so that evening rush-hour service on that route begins 95 minutes earlier, at 6:25 p.m.

I wonder if the  is going to have SIM3 and 3c buses both run to SI in-between 6:25 PM and 7:45 PM, or if they are going to be cheap and convert all of the SIM3 trips that left CPS after 6:25 PM into 3c trips. (IMO I would have them both run but have the SIM3c start at 23rd street until the last SIM3 leaves CPS.)

[Future ENY OP]

Quote

SIM5x, SIM6x

In order to offer additional service across multiple lines, the MTA has announced it will discontinue the SIM5x and SIM6x routes, beginning Oct. 7.

"We have always said that this redesign of the express bus network is a collaborative process where we're listening to the customers riding the buses every day and the bus operators who drive these routes," said MTA NYCT president Andy Byford.

The experimental single-stop route from the South Beach Park-and-Ride on Father Capodanno Boulevard had recently been extended to make two additional Hylan Boulevard stops, but still has not garnered enough ridership to justify the route.

"SIM5x and SIM6x customers can take the SIM5 and SIM6, which serve the same stops between Manhattan and Staten Island. The buses and personnel freed up by this change will be used on routes where additional service is in demand," said an MTA spokesperson.

Source: Staten Island Advance.

Now, I'm gonna say this. Whoever predicted that the 5x and 6x were to be eliminated you win.

I feel what is missing is that there needs to be MORE bus service along Hylan Blvd, Richmond Avenue, Richmond/Arthur Kill Road.  Also, there needs to be more Super Expresses between 5:30AM-9:00AM which is a good chunk of the people leaving the island and heading to Manhattan. The changes in October are the beginning. I believe another set of changes are going to be for January. I would hope its more SIM lines. I think right now there is no New Dorp/Oakwood to Midtown or Downtown.  Certain areas like Travis has 1 express bus service.

[checkmatechamp13]

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I thought they were extending them to make a few more stops, or at least they had been....

That was temporary (they extended them to Tysens with a stop at Lincoln). They're gone the next pick.

4 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I wonder if the  is going to have SIM3 and 3c buses both run to SI in-between 6:25 PM and 7:45 PM, or if they are going to be cheap and convert all of the SIM3 trips that left CPS after 6:25 PM into 3c trips. (IMO I would have them both run but have the SIM3c start at 23rd street until the last SIM3 leaves CPS.)

If I had to guess, they would just convert those SIM3 trips to SIM3C trips (a saavy rider can take the SIM10 to Fingerboard and catch the SIM3C there. Or the BM1/2/3/4 to Battery Place).

I think they wanted to match the span with the X14 (which had its last bus out of 5th & 40th at 6:31pm). The X10B was a few minutes earlier at 6:22pm. I say 5th & 40th because that's a common timepoint, since all the terminals are different.

Also keep in mind that they're adding service earlier in the rush hour (between like 5-6pm from what I understand) so it balances out. I assume the last SIM3 will be at say, 6:15pm so it's still a little early, but not too unreasonable considering that it's basically the X42 (which ended really early) if you consider the SIM3C the X12.

36 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Source: Staten Island Advance.

Now, I'm gonna say this. Whoever predicted that the 5x and 6x were to be eliminated you win.

I feel what is missing is that there needs to be MORE bus service along Hylan Blvd, Richmond Avenue, Richmond/Arthur Kill Road.  Also, there needs to be more Super Expresses between 5:30AM-9:00AM which is a good chunk of the people leaving the island and heading to Manhattan. The changes in October are the beginning. I believe another set of changes are going to be for January. I would hope its more SIM lines. I think right now there is no New Dorp/Oakwood to Midtown or Downtown.  Certain areas like Travis has 1 express bus service.

Travis has the SIM25/26 (the old X22/22A) to Midtown.

They're going to have to make another change for January. From what I heard, this pick was hastily thrown together and the pick in January will (supposedly) address all of the span and frequency issues. (So far none of the changes listed from August 19th until now have improved weekend service, and that span issue on the SIM4C and to a lesser extent, the SIM2 is a big issue)

[SIMplicity]

On 9/21/2018 at 12:55 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

They're going to have to make another change for January. From what I heard, this pick was hastily thrown together and the pick in January will (supposedly) address all of the span and frequency issues. (So far none of the changes listed from August 19th until now have improved weekend service, and that span issue on the SIM4C and to a lesser extent, the SIM2 is a big issue)

I also heard that the January pick is going to be a comprehensive schedule overhaul. Whether that’s true, we shall see. I highly doubt they can fix all the span and frequency issues, but I hope they address most of them.

I’m glad they are finally fixing that 90-minute SIM34/35 / SIM3C gap and are adding SIM3C trips, but a better solution would be to have the SIM3 / SIM34/35 pattern continue later into the evening than 6:25 (like the SIM1/10 pattern which lasts until 8:00.) I hope they keep some regular SIM3 trips after 6:30, but I doubt it. I’ll bet they all become 3Cs. 

SIM9 signs are up already on Hylan Blvd. Still no sign of the new schedules though...

[Future ENY OP]

9 hours ago, SIMplicity said:

I also heard that the January pick is going to be a comprehensive schedule overhaul. Whether that’s true, we shall see. I highly doubt they can fix all the span and frequency issues, but I hope they address most of them.

I’m glad they are finally fixing that 90-minute SIM34/35 / SIM3C gap and are adding SIM3C trips, but a better solution would be to have the SIM3 / SIM34/35 pattern continue later into the evening than 6:25 (like the SIM1/10 pattern which lasts until 8:00.) I hope they keep some regular SIM3 trips after 6:30, but I doubt it. I’ll bet they all become 3Cs. 

SIM9 signs are up already on Hylan Blvd. Still no sign of the new schedules though...

Will there be another SIM route creation scheduled for January? 

 

On 9/21/2018 at 12:55 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Travis has the SIM25/26 (the old X22/22A) to Midtown.

 

Travis has SIM32 via Victory  

Tottenville has the old x22/22A. via Rossville and Bloomingdale  

Travis currently has no Midtown Service via Victory. 

[B35 via Church]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:18 AM, Future ENY OP said:

....Certain areas like Travis has 1 express bus service.

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Travis has SIM32 via Victory  

Tottenville has the old x22/22A. via Rossville and Bloomingdale  

Travis currently has no Midtown Service via Victory. 

He's not confusing Travis with Tottenville...

The Victory Blvd stop off the West Shore Expwy (service rd) is in Travis.... The SIM25 & SIM26 are both Midtown routes that serve it... Checkmate is right.

[SIMplicity]

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Will there be another SIM route creation scheduled for January? 

 

Travis has SIM32 via Victory  

Tottenville has the old x22/22A. via Rossville and Bloomingdale  

Travis currently has no Midtown Service via Victory. 

I assume they will create new routes if necessary during the January pick.

Travis doesn’t need Midtown service via Victory. The X19/22/22A made a single stop at Victory/Glen in Travis (last stop before Manhattan), and now the SIM2/25/26 stop there. It’s walkable from most of the Travis neighborhood.

21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The Victory Blvd stop off the West Shore Expwy (service rd) is in Travis.... The SIM25 & SIM26 are both Midtown routes that serve it... Checkmate is right.

And anyway, a Midtown route via Victory (towards Richmond Ave) would be significantly slower than taking the SIM25/26 at the service road. Even with the SIM32, I’m sure more riders living in Travis would walk/drive to the SIM2 if it wasn’t so overcrowded.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

23 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

He's not confusing Travis with Tottenville...

The Victory Blvd stop off the West Shore Expwy (service rd) is in Travis.... The SIM25 & SIM26 are both Midtown routes that serve it... Checkmate is right.

I'm not sure what Future ENY OP is complaining about, but Travis is simply not big enough to have two express buses.  They've always had the X11 to Downtown (current day SIM32) and they transfer to the old X10. They still have that as far as I know.

[B35 via Church]

26 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

And anyway, a Midtown route via Victory (towards Richmond Ave) would be significantly slower than taking the SIM25/26 at the service road. Even with the SIM32, I’m sure more riders living in Travis would walk/drive to the SIM2 if it wasn’t so overcrowded.

Of course it would (be significantly slower)....

I'm not necessarily seeing this need for a Midtown variant of the SIM32.....

24 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm not sure what Future ENY OP is complaining about, but Travis is simply not big enough to have two express buses.  They've always had the X11 to Downtown (current day SIM32) and they transfer to the old X10. They still have that as far as I know.

That's what it sounds like his concern is.....

[Future ENY OP]

15 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Of course it would (be significantly slower)....

I'm not necessarily seeing this need for a Midtown variant of the SIM32.....

That's what it sounds like his concern is.....

No complaints here. Just a concern. Got my answers.  Wasn’t sure of the demographics of the area. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Of course it would (be significantly slower)....

I'm not necessarily seeing this need for a Midtown variant of the SIM32.....

That's what it sounds like his concern is.....

I think the  is listening, so I will definitely be speaking with the contacts that I was given. That said, we want to make reasonable requests, the first one being that agency starts filling all of these missing scheduled trips that they keep promising.  They can start there. After that, then we'll talk about service improvements.  I have a call that I'll be involved in with Road Ops later today.

[Future ENY OP]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think the  is listening, so I will definitely be speaking with the contacts that I was given. That said, we want to make reasonable requests, the first one being that agency starts filling all of these missing trips that they keep promising.  They can start there. After that, then we'll take about service improvements.  I have a call that I'll be involved in with Road Ops later today.

I wasn’t 100% sure of the demographics of that part of the island. If the area wants downtown only service than its downtown only and not midtown via Brooklyn. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I wasn’t 100% sure of the demographics of that part of the island. If the area wants downtown only service than its downtown only and not midtown via Brooklyn. 

That's the West Shore and it's really low density, so for those who really need Midtown service, they've usually just transferred to the X31 back in the day, which would then jump on the SIE to go directly to Midtown.  

[Future ENY OP]

13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's the West Shore and it's really low density, so for those who really need Midtown service, they've usually just transferred to the X31 back in the day, which would then jump on the SIE to go directly to Midtown.  

Appreciate the explaination @Via Garibaldi 8. My  guess is that part of island is mostly car centric. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Appreciate the explaination @Via Garibaldi 8. My  guess is that part of island is mostly car centric. 

Yes and no.  A lot of that area isn't that developed.  To the south of Travis is where the old Fresh Kills Landfill was, which is now a park, and to the north of Travis you have a small residential area, and the rest is either undeveloped or industrial.  Any more service would be overkill.  

[Future ENY OP]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes and no.  A lot of that area isn't that developed.  To the south of Travis is where the old Fresh Kills Landfill was, which is now a park, and to the north of Travis you have a small residential area, and the rest is either undeveloped or industrial.  Any more service would be overkill.  

Good to know. That part of the area is by 440? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Good to know. Sometimes I take 440 from Jersey to cut over into that part of the island and take the SIE to Brooklyn. 

If you saw where the SIM32 ends at you'd probably laugh. It's literally in the middle of nowhere. I'm really not even sure why they run them to the end of Victory Blvd, but it probably is just easy to turn them around there.

12 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Good to know. That part of the area is by 440? 

That's correct... AKA West Shore Expressway.

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

No complaints here. Just a concern. Got my answers.  Wasn’t sure of the demographics of the area. 

6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

.....My guess is that part of island is mostly car centric. 

AFAIC, it's more doe centric.... Smells like "bascura" out there too!

If you were to take a drive out there to Victory & Wild, you'll see for yourself first-hand that you're concerning yourself over much of nothing.... There isn't much out there... They (Travis residents) have the SIM32 for Lower Manhattan service & a trek over to the WSE service road supplies them w/ Midtown service... As SIMplicity stated, a Midtown routing running along the same course as the SIM32 in SI would be much slower than SIMply hopping on a bus (SIM25/26) at WSE/Victory....

I mean FWIW, at least that small community has express bus service... Those folks in the Goethals Homes OTOH....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

15 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

AFAIC, it's more doe centric.... Smells like "bascura" out there too!

If you were to take a drive out there to Victory & Wild, you'll see for yourself first-hand that you're concerning yourself over much of nothing.... There isn't much out there... They (Travis residents) have the SIM32 for Lower Manhattan service & a trek over to the WSE service road supplies them w/ Midtown service... As SIMplicity stated, a Midtown routing running along the same course as the SIM32 in SI would be much slower than SIMply hopping on a bus (SIM25/26) at WSE/Victory....

I mean FWIW, at least that small community has express bus service... Those folks in the Goethals Homes OTOH....

Somebody needs to call the auto-correct police. LOL

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

AFAIC, it's more doe centric.... Smells like "bascura" out there too!

If you were to take a drive out there to Victory & Wild, you'll see for yourself first-hand that you're concerning yourself over much of nothing.... There isn't much out there... They (Travis residents) have the SIM32 for Lower Manhattan service & a trek over to the WSE service road supplies them w/ Midtown service... As SIMplicity stated, a Midtown routing running along the same course as the SIM32 in SI would be much slower than SIMply hopping on a bus (SIM25/26) at WSE/Victory....

I mean FWIW, at least that small community has express bus service... Those folks in the Goethals Homes OTOH....

That is a copy on all information..

I've done the brief drive thru 440 to the outerbridge crossing via WSE. Just needed an overall picture of the area. 

That 440 is a speedway of some sorts. Just too bad now its heavily patrolled by SI Highway Division 5 and NYS Police.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 9/24/2018 at 12:20 AM, SIMplicity said:

I also heard that the January pick is going to be a comprehensive schedule overhaul. Whether that’s true, we shall see. I highly doubt they can fix all the span and frequency issues, but I hope they address most of them.

I’m glad they are finally fixing that 90-minute SIM34/35 / SIM3C gap and are adding SIM3C trips, but a better solution would be to have the SIM3 / SIM34/35 pattern continue later into the evening than 6:25 (like the SIM1/10 pattern which lasts until 8:00.) I hope they keep some regular SIM3 trips after 6:30, but I doubt it. I’ll bet they all become 3Cs. 

SIM9 signs are up already on Hylan Blvd. Still no sign of the new schedules though...

I agree, the peak variants should run longer wherever possible. 

14 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm not sure what Future ENY OP is complaining about, but Travis is simply not big enough to have two express buses.  They've always had the X11 to Downtown (current day SIM32) and they transfer to the old X10. They still have that as far as I know.

 

14 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's the West Shore and it's really low density, so for those who really need Midtown service, they've usually just transferred to the X31 back in the day, which would then jump on the SIE to go directly to Midtown.  

Not from Travis they don't. From Travis, if they want a direct Midtown route and don't feel like walking over to the WSE, they'll use the X11/SIM32 like a local bus to Richmond Avenue to catch the X17 (well, the SIM4/8 now). To go to Bradley is just too long (especially with the congestion on Victory between Richmond & CSI)

14 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I wasn’t 100% sure of the demographics of that part of the island. If the area wants downtown only service than its downtown only and not midtown via Brooklyn. 

 

13 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Appreciate the explaination @Via Garibaldi 8. My  guess is that part of island is mostly car centric. 

It has nothing to do with demographics. The route is too slow that even if you don't have a car, you're better off walking to the West Shore Expressway service road to catch either a Downtown or Midtown bus. The route west of Richmond mostly exists for convenience purposes (if somebody lives in the eastern reaches of Travis or the western reaches of Bulls Head and doesn't feel like walking or taking a local bus over to another express route). I remember a friend was asking me for advise on how to get from Travis to his new job, and he was talking about taking the X11 to Downtown for the subway, or the S62/92 to Richmond Avenue for the X17J, and I'm like dude, just walk a few blocks over and catch the X22/22A and be done with it (which is what he ended up doing, and was even able to do it when returning from evening classes at CCNY, since the X22/22A runs fairly late for a rush hour bus)

I'll put it to you this way, I live along the route, and I've used it a handful of times in all my time living out here. For me, mostly it's just a backup in case the X17/SIM4 has issues on the return trip (which is why that route is experiencing overcrowding. Between the lack of frequency on the X12/SIM34 and late/missing buses on the X17A/SIM4, people are using that route when they would've really preferred another route.

13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If you saw where the SIM32 ends at you'd probably laugh. It's literally in the middle of nowhere. I'm really not even sure why they run them to the end of Victory Blvd, but it probably is just easy to turn them around there.

That's correct... AKA West Shore Expressway.

The original terminal of the X11 (back when it was labeled as a variant of the X10) was Victory & WSE (according to 1993 map I have). Then sometime later they extended it a few blocks to Wild Avenue (but honestly, most B/Os just layover by the WSE and then deadhead to wherever they need to go. I know a few of the old X11 runs involved 2 PM trips because it was a Downtown-only route). 

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

AFAIC, it's more doe centric.... Smells like "bascura" out there too!

If you were to take a drive out there to Victory & Wild, you'll see for yourself first-hand that you're concerning yourself over much of nothing.... There isn't much out there... They (Travis residents) have the SIM32 for Lower Manhattan service & a trek over to the WSE service road supplies them w/ Midtown service... As SIMplicity stated, a Midtown routing running along the same course as the SIM32 in SI would be much slower than SIMply hopping on a bus (SIM25/26) at WSE/Victory....

I mean FWIW, at least that small community has express bus service... Those folks in the Goethals Homes OTOH....

It's down the block from the SIM30 now that it runs down Forest in both directions. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the only reason for the Forest & Morrow stop, because there really aren't any other homes in that area.

For that matter, that's where they'll have to catch the ferry-bound S40/90 once the extension to Amazon goes into effect (I believe it's next week or the following week). Westbound buses will loop up to Western Avenue and come back down to Amazon via Gulf, and ferry-bound buses will run straight down Forest.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I agree, the peak variants should run longer wherever possible. 

 

Not from Travis they don't. From Travis, if they want a direct Midtown route and don't feel like walking over to the WSE, they'll use the X11/SIM32 like a local bus to Richmond Avenue to catch the X17 (well, the SIM4/8 now). To go to Bradley is just too long (especially with the congestion on Victory between Richmond & CSI)

 

It has nothing to do with demographics. The route is too slow that even if you don't have a car, you're better off walking to the West Shore Expressway service road to catch either a Downtown or Midtown bus. The route west of Richmond mostly exists for convenience purposes (if somebody lives in the eastern reaches of Travis or the western reaches of Bulls Head and doesn't feel like walking or taking a local bus over to another express route). I remember a friend was asking me for advise on how to get from Travis to his new job, and he was talking about taking the X11 to Downtown for the subway, or the S62/92 to Richmond Avenue for the X17J, and I'm like dude, just walk a few blocks over and catch the X22/22A and be done with it (which is what he ended up doing, and was even able to do it when returning from evening classes at CCNY, since the X22/22A runs fairly late for a rush hour bus)

I'll put it to you this way, I live along the route, and I've used it a handful of times in all my time living out here. For me, mostly it's just a backup in case the X17/SIM4 has issues on the return trip (which is why that route is experiencing overcrowding. Between the lack of frequency on the X12/SIM34 and late/missing buses on the X17A/SIM4, people are using that route when they would've really preferred another route.

The original terminal of the X11 (back when it was labeled as a variant of the X10) was Victory & WSE (according to 1993 map I have). Then sometime later they extended it a few blocks to Wild Avenue (but honestly, most B/Os just layover by the WSE and then deadhead to wherever they need to go. I know a few of the old X11 runs involved 2 PM trips because it was a Downtown-only route). 

It's down the block from the SIM30 now that it runs down Forest in both directions. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the only reason for the Forest & Morrow stop, because there really aren't any other homes in that area.

For that matter, that's where they'll have to catch the ferry-bound S40/90 once the extension to Amazon goes into effect (I believe it's next week or the following week). Westbound buses will loop up to Western Avenue and come back down to Amazon via Gulf, and ferry-bound buses will run straight down Forest.

Yes, but that transfer point was used by some customers. It is an option for people from Travis, even if many of them didn’t use it. Those that are closer to the old X31 did use it. Either way though, there is definitely not enough people to sustain a Midtown route over there. Better to do what they do now.

[78 via Stew Leonards]

I miss the days when Staten Island Express routes were labeled "X" and made sense

[trainfan22]

5 minutes ago, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

I miss the days when Staten Island Express routes were labeled "X" and made sense

Your first point legit made me laugh😃 Mainly because the SIM change was only done a few weeks ago😂

[78 via Stew Leonards]

5 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Your first point legit made me laugh😃 Mainly because the SIM change was only done a few weeks ago😂

and its super confusing