MTA express bus changes: New SIM9, South Shore extension and more

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

and its super confusing

I happen to agree and I'm someone who used the express buses out there for over six years.

[checkmatechamp13]

So they didn't add any weekend service, and they screwed X17 riders even further by cutting the span of the SIM4 and replacing those buses with more long, slow SIM4C buses in an effort to force more people to switch to the SIM3C. 

They did fix most of the obvious peak/off-peak gaps (though there's still a gap between the 2:30pm SIM4C and 3:40pm SIM31.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/bus/sisch.htm#effective10_07_SIM

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Wow, the SIM3 in particular got reduced (of those "super express" variants).

Also, there have been significant reductions on the SIM5, and that is without considering the SIM5X.

[Lil 57]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So they didn't add any weekend service, and they screwed X17 riders even further by cutting the span of the SIM4 and replacing those buses with more long, slow SIM4C buses in an effort to force more people to switch to the SIM3C. 

They did fix most of the obvious peak/off-peak gaps (though there's still a gap between the 2:30pm SIM4C and 3:40pm SIM31.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/bus/sisch.htm#effective10_07_SIM

I thought they said that the SIM4c would be running until 2:15 AM, SMH

[SIMplicity]

17 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Wow, the SIM3 in particular got reduced (of those "super express" variants).

Also, there have been significant reductions on the SIM5, and that is without considering the SIM5X.

Same for the SIM6, with the 6X gone. (In the morning they reduced the SIM6 from every 3 to every 4-5 mins while boosting the SIM10 from every 5 to every 4 mins.)

And about the SIM3, one of the main benefits of the redesign was that people in midtown didn’t have to take long midtown-downtown routes. Now the SIM3 span is being cut so for those riders that benefit is completely lost.

17 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I thought they said that the SIM4c would be running until 2:15 AM, SMH

They pulled another fast one on us SMH

18 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So they didn't add any weekend service, and they screwed X17 riders even further by cutting the span of the SIM4 and replacing those buses with more long, slow SIM4C buses in an effort to force more people to switch to the SIM3C. 

They did fix most of the obvious peak/off-peak gaps (though there's still a gap between the 2:30pm SIM4C and 3:40pm SIM31.

Yes, they fixed most of the gaps. But in doing so they screwed over a large number of other riders.

Gannon/Broadway gap: Between 3 and 4pm (and the last few evening SIM4 trips) all SIM4s have become SIM4Cs that start at Chambers. (ouch. I am not a fan of this at all.)

Watchogue/Broadway gap: Between 2-3pm and 6-8pm the SIM3 is replaced with the SIM3C, plus the frequency is reduced. (adding to the travel times of hundreds of riders in midtown.)

But, BUT, there is one gap that was fixed by adding more trips and not replacing fast service with slower service: Hylan Blvd (of course). The SIM10 span was left untouched, so to fix the Union Square-area gap the SIM7 span was extended to 7:30 and the SIM9 runs until 7:37, and two SIM1C trips were added at 7:24/7:44. So for a little while you have the SIM1, SIM10 and SIM1C all running at the same time.

So. SIM3 riders in midtown had to be screwed over to help downtown riders. SIM4 riders had to be screwed over to help Gannon Ave riders. But with Hylan Blvd, everybody benefits.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

20 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

Yes, they fixed most of the gaps. But in doing so they screwed over a large number of other riders.

Gannon/Broadway gap: Between 3 and 4pm (and the last few evening SIM4 trips) all SIM4s have become SIM4Cs that start at Chambers. (ouch. I am not a fan of this at all.)

Watchogue/Broadway gap: Between 2-3pm and 6-8pm the SIM3 is replaced with the SIM3C, plus the frequency is reduced. (adding to the travel times of hundreds of riders in midtown.)

But, BUT, there is one gap that was fixed by adding more trips and not replacing fast service with slower service: Hylan Blvd (of course). The SIM10 span was left untouched, so to fix the Union Square-area gap the SIM7 span was extended to 7:30 and two SIM1C trips were added at 7:24/7:44. So for a little while you have the SIM1, SIM10 and SIM1C all running at the same time.

So. SIM3 riders in midtown had to be screwed over to help downtown riders. SIM4 riders had to be screwed over to help Gannon Ave riders. But with Hylan Blvd, everybody benefits.

So instead of running SIM32 buses, they decide to elongate the commutes for those along Richmond Avenue by doing that 4C nonsense.

Regarding Watchogue, I would have added a 7:20 PM SIM34 bus from Downtown, with the first SIM3C bus passing at 7:40 PM (originating from Midtown at 7:00 PM). The 6:25 PM and 6:40 PM SIM3C buses would become SIM3 buses. There's no need for the SIM3C if the SIM34 is also running. Convert the 2:20 PM, 2:40 PM, and 3:00 PM buses into SIM3 trips, because they run together with SIM34 buses when they get to Downtown.

 

[FLX9304]

So why add AM only 5X & 6X, knowing that their riderships are lower than expected? Now they’re gonna add the 9 to replace some of the work that the 5X & 6X was doing in the morning and add service in the pm peak. If I was them instead, add SIM13 to replace the 3 to downtown and have SIM3 go directly to Midtown. 

[X17JS74]

I think I counted three less SIM8's in the PM.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think we'll get a true sense of how much the wants this to succeed or not in January. As I said during my speech before the board, we're going to give them a chance to fix this before we come out with the pitchforks. They've already had a taste of what will happen. If they don't fix it we're going to be relentless until we get it. I like it when people underestimate me and say you can't do this or that. 

This advocacy group is here to stay. It's a must given the incompetence that we've seen. There are a few people that are salivating at the opportunity to play hardball with them.

[B35 via Church]

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think we'll get a true sense of how much the wants this to succeed or not in January. As I said during my speech before the board, we're going to give them a chance to fix this before we come out with the pitchforks. They've already had a taste of what will happen. If they don't fix it we're going to be relentless until we get it. I like it when people underestimate me and say you can't do this or that. 

This advocacy group is here to stay. It's a must given the incompetence that we've seen. There are a few people that are salivating at the opportunity to play hardball with them.

Well start honing the pitchforks & get 'em ready then.... Build a strong backing (if this has to include alliances/outside forces, so be it), because I don't REMOTELY believe that this agency wants this redesign to succeed....

...that is, "succeed", relative to the vantage point of commuters (as opposed to whatever f**kery they ultimately have in store for NY-ers)...

20 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I thought they said that the SIM4c would be running until 2:15 AM, SMH

I'll say it...

These insta-fixes are completely reactionary - without a tinge of sympathy & (for DAMN sure) empathy whatsoever..... This isn't about "making it right", it's about shutting people the f*** up!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Well start honing the pitchforks & get 'em ready then.... Build a strong backing (if this has to include alliances/outside forces, so be it), because I don't REMOTELY believe that this agency wants this redesign to succeed....

...that is, "succeed", relative to the vantage point of commuters (as opposed to whatever f**kery they ultimately have in store for NY-ers)...

I'll say it...

These insta-fixes are completely reactionary - without a tinge of sympathy & (for DAMN sure) empathy whatsoever..... This isn't about "making it right", it's about shutting people the f*** up!

Oh I know... I don't trust this agency and I never have. They are trying to listen though and that's a start. You see I don't want to go at them without giving them every chance to not fix this. That's why we're supposed to have a meeting with road ops from each borough regarding express bus service so that we highlight what the issues are and how we can address them AND have the DOT there as well, thus everything is documented, and they then have the time to find the monies to plan everything, etc. After that then they have no excuse because you've f-ed up once, you came to us asking essentially how we can fix it, and we've given you the tools to do so. There's the local group on Staten Island meeting regularly with the higher ups and the borough president about ALL of the daily issues with plenty of documentation, plus my group.

When you start messing with people's livelihoods, that's when people really care about their commutes. One of my colleagues lives on the Upper East Side, and even with all of the transportation options she has, she prefers to walk to the office over taking the local buses or the subway. She said she was so excited when the was extended to 96th street, but now she NEVER gets a seat by the time the train gets to 72nd. Crazy. If she could bike it to work without being a sweaty mess because of the hills and how heavy the bike is for her, she would've long switched to CitiBike. lol

[Coney Island Av]

I have a question: was eliminating the Midtown-via-Downtown pattern good?

While it does eliminate horrible congestion and longer trips, they've overall severely reduced alternatives and forced more to take the subway.

For example, before the new network, what if something happened on the FDR Drive that led to the X2/X5/X14/X42 being temporarily suspended? No worries! The X1/X7/X9/X10/X12 were there to save you when all hell broke loose. Now, with the SIMs, aside from the Lincoln Tunnel routes, the only other routes that run to/from Midtown are the FDR Drive routes. Without any alternative, any incident will royally screw everything up. 

From Worth St to 14 St/23 St, we've gone from FIVE express routes (three via Hylan and two via Gannon/Watchogue) to a mere TWO. The SIM7 and SIM33 are very far from adequate/productive to cover all of the riders that are vastly left underserved by this redesign. 

The list goes on and on, but I can't list all examples that stick out to me IMO...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Coney Island Av said:

I have a question: was eliminating the Midtown-via-Downtown pattern good?

While it does eliminate horrible congestion and longer trips, they've overall severely reduced alternatives and forced more to take the subway.

For example, before the new network, what if something happened on the FDR Drive that led to the X2/X5/X14/X42 being temporarily suspended? No worries! The X1/X7/X9/X10/X12 were there to save you when all hell broke loose. Now, with the SIMs, aside from the Lincoln Tunnel routes, the only other routes that run to/from Midtown are the FDR Drive routes. Without any alternative, any incident will royally screw everything up. 

From Worth St to 14 St/23 St, we've gone from FIVE express routes (three via Hylan and two via Gannon/Watchogue) to a mere TWO. The SIM7 and SIM33 are very far from adequate/productive to cover all of the riders that are vastly left underserved by this redesign. 

The list goes on and on, but I can't list all examples that stick out to me IMO...

That's exactly one problem I mentioned to the road ops contact on Friday, which is that with this new plan, if there's any little mess on a major corridor, express bus service turns into utter sh*t. This is why almost every single day since this new plan has launched people have complained about waiting 20-45 minutes on one line or another before a bus comes, forget about getting on one. Then there are all of the instances where they aren't even sending out the last bus on some lines so those people are left STRANDED literally. One lady took an Uber from Manhattan to Staten Island because she was pressed for time after waiting so long with no bus coming. People have to get home to their kids and families. It's ridiculous.

[Lawrence St]

34 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think we'll get a true sense of how much the wants this to succeed or not in January. As I said during my speech before the board, we're going to give them a chance to fix this before we come out with the pitchforks. They've already had a taste of what will happen. If they don't fix it we're going to be relentless until we get it. I like it when people underestimate me and say you can't do this or that. 

This advocacy group is here to stay. It's a must given the incompetence that we've seen. There are a few people that are salivating at the opportunity to play hardball with them.

So if this does fail, are we just going to revert back to the old system?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So if this does fail, are we just going to revert back to the old system?

LOL Yeah right... The will NEVER admit that this has been a failure. They'll keep saying that this is what people wanted and we're tweaking it. Imagine that they actually admitted that they f-ed up... lol

I've said it before... On paper I get it. The problem is they don't have all of the tools in place for a plan like this. You need your bus lanes in place in various places AND you need them enforced. There is NO enforcement anywhere. People park wherever they want every day and the buses still have to fight to get through traffic just the same as before. The bus stops have been placed in stupid areas adding to even more congestion and they have an antiquated payment system making boarding VERY slow, along with no traffic signal prority. A plan like this requires buses to be ON TIME and they need to be moving and coming every few minutes, picking up quickly and moving on, otherwise you get what we've seen... Lines stretching an entire city block, wrapping around the corner.

I have lived in cities that had no subway and had a aggressive approach to moving people on buses. The wants that same plan, but is putting the cart before the horse. Horrible planning. Peter Cafiero should be fired if he doesn't get this mess fixed since he is in planning, and Polly Trottenberg over at the DOT should go with him.

[B35 via Church]

8 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

I have a question: was eliminating the Midtown-via-Downtown pattern good?

While it does eliminate horrible congestion and longer trips, they've overall severely reduced alternatives and forced more to take the subway.

For example, before the new network, what if something happened on the FDR Drive that led to the X2/X5/X14/X42 being temporarily suspended? No worries! The X1/X7/X9/X10/X12 were there to save you when all hell broke loose. Now, with the SIMs, aside from the Lincoln Tunnel routes, the only other routes that run to/from Midtown are the FDR Drive routes. Without any alternative, any incident will royally screw everything up. 

From Worth St to 14 St/23 St, we've gone from FIVE express routes (three via Hylan and two via Gannon/Watchogue) to a mere TWO. The SIM7 and SIM33 are very far from adequate/productive to cover all of the riders that are vastly left underserved by this redesign. 

The list goes on and on, but I can't list all examples that stick out to me IMO...

* Theoretically, it could have been...

* Realistically...

HELL NO !

4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So if this does fail, are we just going to revert back to the old system?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

At that board meeting I made sure to call out Ms. Trottenberg's name twice because the message I was conveying with my tone was wake the eff up and get on the ball. In 2018, we are just finally getting double bus lanes on 5th and Madison and they've been painting them when? During the heart of rush hour. I mean how stupid can you be...

Since the was audited about express bus service, the only thing they've done is elongate the run times. That isn't an improvement...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

29 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

I have lived in cities that had no subway and had a aggressive approach to moving people on buses. The wants that same plan, but is putting the cart before the horse. Horrible planning. Peter Cafiero should be fired if he doesn't get this mess fixed since he is in planning, and Polly Trottenberg over at the DOT should go with him.

I believe Peter Cafiero is a major issue. Exactly what is he doing to improve the system? He should have been gone ages ago, I really hope he gets the Nowakowski treatment soon.

 

[Lil 57]

23 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

* Theoretically, it could have been...

* Realistically...

HELL NO !

Time to get a Car🚗

[Via Garibaldi 8]

39 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I believe Peter Cafiero is a major issue. Exactly what has he do to improve the system? He should have been gone ages ago, I really hope he gets the Nowakowski treatment soon.

 

I watched him during the board meeting I spoke at (in fact I watched the whole thing on my iPad as I cooking dinner). He was supposed to make a presentation before the board and he ran through everything in a few minutes time. Polly Trottenberg spends more time yapping about the subways than she does the buses. Mind you, the DOT plays a pivotal role in how these buses are moving. They decide where the bus stops are placed, how many bus lanes we have, and anything else that occurs on our City streets, including the syching of the traffic lights. Our buses are now the slowest in the entire nation and this has all happened with her at the head as the Commissioner of the Department of Transportation. She was appointment by de Blasio who has done nothing but yell about how we need a millionaires' tax to fix congestion, something that he nor she has any control over since that would have to be approved by the State and signed off on by Governor Cuomo (it'll be a cold day in hell before that happens), but she keeps yelling the same thing that de Blasio has been yelling. In the meantime she could be having the DOT add more bus lanes and be aggressively doing everything possible to address some of the things that she does control, yet she hasn't. More cameras on the buses to take photos of the licenses of the offenders parking in the bus lanes so that they are ticketed in real time... Another program that seems to be moving slowly. She also came out with a pilot program to have trucks make deliveries only at certain times of the day outside of rush hour. Well what happened with that? Not one update... The has been talking about traffic signal prority for years and all we have heard is talk because the only buses using the technology are the SBS lines. Everything bus related has been taking far too long and we need aggressive measures put into place to address what is now a crisis.

[Lawrence St]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I watched him during the board meeting I spoke at (in fact I watched the whole thing on my iPad as I cooking dinner). He was supposed to make a presentation before the board and he ran through everything in a few minutes time. Polly Trottenberg spends more time yapping about the subways than she does the buses. Mind you, the DOT plays a pivotal role in how these buses are moving. They decide where the bus stops are placed, how many bus lanes we have, and anything else that occurs on our City streets, including the syching of the traffic lights. Our buses are now the slowest in the entire nation and this has all happened with her at the head as the Commissioner of the Department of Transportation. She was appointment by de Blasio who has done nothing but yell about how we need a millionaires' tax to fix congestion, something that he nor she has any control overn since that would have to be approved by the State and signed off on by Governor Cuomo (it'll be a cold day in hell before that happens), but she keeps yelling the same thing that de Blasio has been yelling. In the meantime she could be having the DOT add more bus lanes and be aggressively doing everything possible to address some of the things that she does control, yet she hasn't. More cameras on the buses to take photos of the licenses of the offenders parking in the bus lanes so that they are ticketed in real time... Another program that seems to be moving slowly. She also came out with a pilot program to have trucks make deliveries only at certain times of the day outside of rush hour. Well what happened with that? Not one update... The has been talking about traffic signal prority for years and all we have heard is talk because the only buses using the technology are the SBS lines. Everything bus related has been taking far too long and we need aggressive measures put into place to address what is now a crisis.

You cook? Lemme try some of your gourmet stuff! 😂

 

36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

* Theoretically, it could have been...

* Realistically...

HELL NO !

Well, I tried 😂

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Time to get a Car🚗

lol... One other problem with this redesign is that people that were walking to the express bus now drive in some cases because when the DOT eliminated bus stops that were accessible, they placed the new ones where you have NO sidewalks and have to walk in the street and risk being run over by cars, or the walk is so long that you can spend 20+ minutes just doing that or the bus stop is overgrown with vegetation and in an isolated unsafe area. After you finally get to the bus, then you wait for the bus 20-45 minutes, and if you can get on you STAND the entire way to get to work. A small amount of people have benefitted from this plan, but the majority have not.

For those going through this hell daily, talk about a nice way to start your day, all for $6.50. If they want people to transfer they need to ensure that there are viable options. Transferring in the City is challenging, but even worse on Staten Island where you have far fewer options, so you have those people now driving, adding to the congestion and clogging up residential streets doing so looking for parking. Then the placement of the stops with so many buses having to pick up so many people... The buses arrive in packs of four or more and block traffic trying to get through causing more congestion. You have to see it to believe. I predicted it would be bad, but I never envisioned it would be this bad.

[B35 via Church]

13 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Time to get a Car🚗

Not if you work in Manhattan (or have some people tell it, the "real" Manhattan - Anything below 59th)....

Don't believe for a second that the MTA doesn't realize that they have thousands upon thousands of commuters by the balls here.... Those that don't have their own vehicle, those that don't know anyone that'll give em a Lyft lift, those that don't have the financial means to shell out 'x' amount of dollars for cabs everyday, even those that take on my ideology that have their own vehicle, but refuse to drive into Manhattan..... I hate to even put it like this, but even with the growing prevalence of the biking commuter & the boating commuter, this agency has a shit ton of leverage over NYC residents...

They do what they want because of it.

[Lawrence St]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol... One other problem with this redesign is that people that were walking to the express bus now drive in some cases because when the DOT eliminated bus stops that were accessible, they placed the new ones where you have NO sidewalks and have to walk in the street and risk being run over by cars, or the walk is so long that you can spend 20+ minutes just doing that or the bus stop is overgrown with vegetation and in an isolated unsafe area. After you finally get to the bus, then you wait for the bus 20-45 minutes, and if you can get on you STAND the entire way to get to work. A small amount of people have benefitted from this plan, but the majority have not.

For those going through this hell daily, talk about a nice way to start your day, all for $6.50. If they want people to transfer they need to ensure that there are viable options. Transferring in the City is challenging, but even worse on Staten Island where you have far fewer options, so you have those people now driving, adding to the congestion and clogging up residential streets doing so looking for parking. Then the placement of the stops with so many buses having to pick up so many people... The buses arrive in packs of four or more and block traffic trying to get through causing more congestion. You have to see it to believe. I predicted it would be bad, but I never envisioned it would be this bad.

I took the SIM7 around 5 like you suggested earlier, oh. my. god.

I had to fight with 4 people all at the same bus stop. One because he cut in front of me. One because he kept pushing the seat back. One because she spilled hot coffee on me. One because the driver decided to have an attitude while I was getting change out of my pocket.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

44 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I took the SIM7 around 5 like you suggested earlier, oh. my. god.

I had to fight with 4 people all at the same bus stop. One because he cut in front of me. One because he kept pushing the seat back. One because she spilled hot coffee on me. One because the driver decided to have an attitude while I was getting change out of my pocket.

Not surprised. You're lucky you even got a seat. Because of the other group working to try to fix this mess, they have a dispatcher over there sending over a bus to try to handle the crowds which can be upwards of a 75-100 people at one stop alone. The bus seats around 57 people I believe tops so just with one or two stops, with the gaps in service, the buses become insanely overcrowded and if you've been waiting 30+ minutes for a bus, well you become quite cranky and all of the things you mentioned are bound to happen and then some. There have already been several fights that almost broke out and if things aren't fixed it will only get worse. You work eight hours and then spend another four hours trying to get and from home... Basically half a work day spent commuting...