MTA express bus changes: New SIM9, South Shore extension and more

[Future ENY OP]

...This has to be the worse of the cuts with the SIM service. I haven’t got a chance to look at the new schedule but with the responses already it seems that the  once again dropped the ball on this. 

Okay. You got rid of of the SIM 5x/6x and replaced it with the SIM9 but didn’t address additional service patterns for the area. 

If we gotta wait until January 6th 2019 for the rest of these additional schedule changes and possible SIM routes to be introduced that would be a disrespect to all Staten Island Commuters. 

[checkmatechamp13]

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Exactly @BM5 via Woodhaven... The thing is with telecommunicating and people working from home more regularly, there are people that don't need the unlimited Express Bus Plus Metrocard. They should be able to use a pay-per-ride if that works for them and not be forced into paying $59.50 a week because the can't provide service as it should.

The thing is that they never advertised their 3-legged transfer policy. It was originally supposed to be universal ("If the 2nd leg is a SIM route, you get an extra transfer") but even that wasn't published. So people are assuming that if their trip requires 2 transfers, both of them will be free, but that only applies to certain bus routes and at certain subway stations (which again, aren't published so people can't plan around it). Literally, if it wasn't for those Facebook pages, there's information that would not be available to those commuters. 

5 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

First day of Major detours for the SIM routes. A few questions.

1. If the Battery Tunnel is closed, how is the SIM2 detoured?

2. Never knew SIM4c's stopped in Brooklyn 😂

Goes to show you, they're still on this tip about internally relabeling the routes. The SIM4C is "the old X17" which did stop in Brooklyn on the weekends.

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

2- They went overkill in eliminating a lot of these bus stops & it's a real concern I have whenever they get around to f***ing up the individual borough local bus networks.... The way they're indulging in this stop elimination bit, is like someone overusing a word they just learned.... It's a last ditch effort to try to speed up bus service & it's going to end up backfiring in the longrun....

3- Like I said last night in this thread, theoretically it makes sense... The problem is realistically, they ignored a shit ton of external factors - and worse, added one of their own (centrally pigeonholing the midtown service, instead of providing east midtown, west midtown, and mid-midtown (lol) service like the old network did).... Queens & Brooklyn can get away with not having west midtown express service, due to the latter having the 7th & 8th avenue subway lines & the former having an 8th av line (well the also, now that it goes to Javits).....

Staten Island has none of that shit, so to tell (more) SI-ers to go f*** themselves & do whatever it is they have to do to get to the east side or west side after disembarking their midtown express, is insulting.....

4- If I told you that pigs fly, would you believe it???

They can tell you whatever they want, the only person that can tell you if the redesigned network enhanced or made your commute more of a detriment, is YOU. For as many people that utilize express buses in SI & for most of those same commuters to profess that their commute was made better (or had no effect - and that's giving the MTA the benefit of the doubt), only then can the MTA rightfully put it out there that the redesigned network was "good".... A service provider can only judge and/or conclude if their service{s} are successful, adequate, or wasteful by how they are patronized - Period..... Demand dictates service & not the other way around (as the MTA would love to have commuters believe).... As a matter of fact, they're trying to justify that service dictating demand as we speak..... Crushloaded buses with sub-par service (to them) means that said route{s} are successful...

No, it's called, you as a service provider being f*****' CHEAP !!!!!

2 - Some of the things they said on that topic annoy the crap out of me. At one meeting, the guy said "The express stops are actually closer together than the local stops" That's not the case and their own numbers show otherwise. I believe it was 0.15 miles apart (about 3 blocks) for local, 0.29 miles apart for express (5-6 blocks), and 0.25 miles apart for limiteds (I'm not sure whether that includes the local portions at the end of those limited routes, because that seems awfully low). At another meeting, somebody said "You're making people walk 15-20 blocks to their stop" and the planner said that the stops aren't spaced that far apart (the correct answer would've been that the average spacing is now 8 blocks instead of 5-6 blocks, and if you're in the middle, you walk the maximum of 4 extra blocks). But of course, math skills apparently aren't a requirement for a job that deals heavily with statistics.....

3 - There was never a real West Midtown trunk line for the "via Brooklyn" routes. The X1/7/9 took 7th Avenue to 50th Street to reach 5th Avenue and that's about it. The "via NJ" routes of course, continue to serve West Midtown because that's where the Lincoln Tunnel is. (For East Midtown, they brought back the SIM6/X5 to Lexington due to complaints. The SIM22/26 were more because there were too many buses turning from 5th to 42nd, not really because of complaints about not being on Lexington. With the SIM26, a lot of people are actually upset that they moved it back to Lexington, because it was easier for them on 5th).

4 - That's one of the key points I mentioned to them. With these new routes, some people are forced to alter their work schedules because their new route had its span shortened. My dad was telling me about a guy who used to take the X17 early in the morning to reach Greenwich Village, and is now forced to walk to the slower SIM4C down on Victory (at that time of the morning, the X10 didn't run yet, so it's a bonus for Gannon riders, but it didn't have to come at the expense of Richmond Avenue. They could've just started the SIM32 earlier and called it a day). Then the guy realized that on top of that, if he works a 6-2 shift, he'll have to deal with the slower, overcrowded SIM4C in the afternoon as well. So he had to try to change his work schedule to 7-3 avoid dealing with the mess.

But the whole thing with the span issues overall (which they promised they would resolve and still have yet to do so) was a serious thing that literally forced people to alter their schedules to work around the MTA schedule, when it should be the other way around.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

20 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

1. The thing is that they never advertised their 3-legged transfer policy. It was originally supposed to be universal ("If the 2nd leg is a SIM route, you get an extra transfer") but even that wasn't published. So people are assuming that if their trip requires 2 transfers, both of them will be free, but that only applies to certain bus routes and at certain subway stations (which again, aren't published so people can't plan around it). Literally, if it wasn't for those Facebook pages, there's information that would not be available to those commuters. 

2. Goes to show you, they're still on this tip about internally relabeling the routes. The SIM4C is "the old X17" which did stop in Brooklyn on the weekends.

1. Well yeah, which is yet another reason (there are so many of them) why people are fuming.  Can't blame them either.  Their communication has been horrible.  With so many problems going on, and me talking in depth about this problem and that problem and that problem during the conference call, I could've went on for a few hours to be honest, and they're all legitimate complaints too.  When I spoke before the board, I wanted to be clear that the reason people are pissed isn't because they're being prima donnas. It's because this agency has made promises to the riders that they are not keeping and we plan to start making them accountable.  They need someone out here checking what they do because they've become increasingly sloppy in so many areas. 

2. God forbid there's a detour on weekends. It's like people aren't supposed to ride the express bus.  Planned detours are riddled with errors, or they aren't posted.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Or you know install new sidewalks and trim the vegetation at these new stops? They had months to prepare...

It's really a disgrace. You see some of the things people are putting up with just trying to get to the bus stop and someone should be fired.  There are stops where you basically have sidewalks fully covered in vegetation along busy stretches of service roads, so you can walk in the street and be run over by some car flying down the service road.  I sure as hell wouldn't do it.

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The massive crowding & people getting flagged alone tells me that these are service cuts.... I mean, yes, there were more bus stops system-wide (compared to this shitstorm SI has for an express bus network now), but you simply weren't seeing people getting flagged.... Standees on particular trips at the most.... This plan was most definitely a way to induce crush loading on the more utilized routes (and/or, heavily utilized portions of the former routes) & to gauge how (un)utilized the lesser utilized routes are.... Look no further than the SIM5x/6x.... That is going to happen with some of these other routes too (coverage be damned) & all SI-ers are going to be left with, are buses they have to hope & pray they can get on.....

Well here's the thing.  As I said, we have so many gaps in service because they don't have all of the tools in place to have buses coming as quickly as they advertised, so unlike the old system, when buses went missing, you had other options. With this new system, you have far fewer and with so many buses running down the same corridor, when there's a problem, things get really bad really fast. Even so though, if they had those buses coming, they would still be seeing overcrowding because they only added a bus here and there on some routes that now serve to cover several former routes. Take the SIM30 for example. It had the X12/42 and X14 helping out for Midtown.  Now the SIM30 is really the Midtown route along all of Forest Avenue, plus it's supposed to handle what the old X18 did in Rosebank.  Just absurd.  

Once we get this missing bus mess better, my next thing to focus on is trying to get some of these routes extended. Having the SIM33 end at 14th street is stupid. Run it up to 23rd.

 

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

1. If there are no complaints (especially from the "right" people), there will be no service improvements..... That's not how public transportation should be doled (or otherwise provided) out....

2. The point of an express bus was to originally do away with 2-fare zones.... That can (and did) include the subway..... To have the belief of commuter express bus travel not having people take subways afterwards, is not mutually exclusive to the belief that the point of public transit is to quell (or for the staunch, pro-transit folks, completely do away with) the amount of driving being done.... I'm not sure if you were trying to pose that as some sort of contrarian point or something, but I do want to point that out regardless.... I do agree though that for a public transportation agency to actually promote driving in any facet, defeats the purpose... Or to parrot the adjective you use, Stupid.

1. Exactly... They've also been very quietly changing their loading guidelines so that they pack in more people.  We saw how generous they were in the old days. Routes like the B4 had headways of 15 minutes most of the day, even though trips went missing but still.  If they're doing this on Staten Island, it doesn't bode well for the other boroughs.  

2. And this is something that many people are angry about and I don't blame them. I myself have a long walk after I get off of the express bus, and I'm fine with it, but some people are disabled and they take the express bus because they can't deal with all of the stairs and so on.  They gladly pay the higher fare for the convenience. Now you're making those people transfer... Crazy,

[Via Garibaldi 8]

55 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

...This has to be the worse of the cuts with the SIM service. I haven’t got a chance to look at the new schedule but with the responses already it seems that the  once again dropped the ball on this. 

Okay. You got rid of of the SIM 5x/6x and replaced it with the SIM9 but didn’t address additional service patterns for the area. 

If we gotta wait until January 6th 2019 for the rest of these additional schedule changes and possible SIM routes to be introduced that would be a disrespect to all Staten Island Commuters. 

There's really not much more that they can do because they made such a mess of this re-design that this pick wasn't even supposed to even happen. These are essentially emergency changes being made to try to address some of the severe overcrowding, and asking the drivers to keep picking over and over again... They didn't create this mess... Management did, and as I said, the planners should be fired. 

Between now and then, my goal as the leader of the Express Bus Advocacy Group is to try to lessen the sting by seeing how we can get these scheduled buses to show up consistently, and to try to have better dispatching until some long-term changes can be made in terms more bus lanes, better enforcement, traffic signal priority, faster boarding times, etc., and all of this will take a series of meetings and changes to happen.  

[B35 via Church]

29 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

2 - Some of the things they said on that topic annoy the crap out of me. At one meeting, the guy said "The express stops are actually closer together than the local stops" That's not the case and their own numbers show otherwise. I believe it was 0.15 miles apart (about 3 blocks) for local, 0.29 miles apart for express (5-6 blocks), and 0.25 miles apart for limiteds (I'm not sure whether that includes the local portions at the end of those limited routes, because that seems awfully low). At another meeting, somebody said "You're making people walk 15-20 blocks to their stop" and the planner said that the stops aren't spaced that far apart (the correct answer would've been that the average spacing is now 8 blocks instead of 5-6 blocks, and if you're in the middle, you walk the maximum of 4 extra blocks). But of course, math skills apparently aren't a requirement for a job that deals heavily with statistics.....

3 - There was never a real West Midtown trunk line for the "via Brooklyn" routes. The X1/7/9 took 7th Avenue to 50th Street to reach 5th Avenue and that's about it. The "via NJ" routes of course, continue to serve West Midtown because that's where the Lincoln Tunnel is. (For East Midtown, they brought back the SIM6/X5 to Lexington due to complaints. The SIM22/26 were more because there were too many buses turning from 5th to 42nd, not really because of complaints about not being on Lexington. With the SIM26, a lot of people are actually upset that they moved it back to Lexington, because it was easier for them on 5th).

4 - That's one of the key points I mentioned to them. With these new routes, some people are forced to alter their work schedules because their new route had its span shortened. My dad was telling me about a guy who used to take the X17 early in the morning to reach Greenwich Village, and is now forced to walk to the slower SIM4C down on Victory (at that time of the morning, the X10 didn't run yet, so it's a bonus for Gannon riders, but it didn't have to come at the expense of Richmond Avenue. They could've just started the SIM32 earlier and called it a day). Then the guy realized that on top of that, if he works a 6-2 shift, he'll have to deal with the slower, overcrowded SIM4C in the afternoon as well. So he had to try to change his work schedule to 7-3 avoid dealing with the mess.

But the whole thing with the span issues overall (which they promised they would resolve and still have yet to do so) was a serious thing that literally forced people to alter their schedules to work around the MTA schedule, when it should be the other way around.

2- ...and those are the types of lies I'm talking about... Sodomizing riders with no vaseline; not only are you doing whatever you want, but justifying your BS with fabrications on top of it.... Where was all this talk about stop consolidation & express stops being closer than local stops 5-to-10+ years ago, if it was such this big damn problem....

Something else you point out here though annoys me more, to be honest... It's the fact that you have some of those that do go to these meetings to have their voices heard, either don't know how to effectively drive home a point/concern, or embellishes the f*** out of it.... Concerning the latter, you should hear how loud I get in here where I'm watching playbacks of these MTA meetings & some commuter tells a boldfaced lie of their own, in (I'm guessing) some lame attempt to get the MTA to make whatever change they want to have made.... Or just overall conveys themselves like they're complete, uneducated fools that just happen to be talking about something public transit related.... That sort of thing muddies the water for the commuters that come in, say what they have to say, with potency, and 100% unadulterated truth behind it.... I'll go as far as to say that the MTA goes in looking for/wanting the QJT types to speak out....

It's easier (for those that are already ignorant to begin with) to deal with a legion of feeble-minded idiots, than it is it deal with a collective of intelligent, honest, hard working men & women <---> studious (college) students studying to eventually become those same hard working, productive men/women in the future..... They don't want either of the latter attending these meetings.

3- There was no trunk line per se, true... However, you at least had the x12/42, x30, and I believe the x14 that ran across 57th due west, to end over at 11th....

4- Ridiculous.... Now I can understand applying for a job (considering your commuting options before the fact & planning ahead that way).... But to have someone have to change their schedule to risk getting stranded (or severely inconvenienced, let me put it that way) and/or risk getting fired, is just downright wrong.... That's the type of shit that can kickstart someone completely uprooting & moving elsewhere....

Some saturdays when I have to come in, one of my best workers I can no longer consider putting him down for a saturday, thanks to the n27 weekend cuts (no, I'm not one of these "get a car" or you're fired types)..... That's the weekend & fortunately for him, it's not mandatory for the hourly guys to come in...... (Hearing/Reading about) People having to change their schedules for something public transportation related always sickened me, even before I reached the managerial level..... Matter of fact, it pisses me off more now.... Chance for the man to earn some extra bread for him & his fam', right down the toilet bowl....

It's just not right, man.

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well here's the thing.  As I said, we have so many gaps in service because they don't have all of the tools in place to have buses coming as quickly as they advertised, so unlike the old system, when buses went missing, you had other options. With this new system, you have far fewer and with so many buses running down the same corridor, when there's a problem, things get really bad really fast. Even so though, if they had those buses coming, they would still be seeing overcrowding because they only added a bus here and there on some routes that now serve to cover several former routes. Take the SIM30 for example. It had the X12/42 and X14 helping out for Midtown.  Now the SIM30 is really the Midtown route along all of Forest Avenue, plus it's supposed to handle what the old X18 did in Rosebank.  Just absurd.  

Once we get this missing bus mess better, my next thing to focus on is trying to get some of these routes extended. Having the SIM33 end at 14th street is stupid. Run it up to 23rd.

Overcrowding, yes, but not people getting flagged.... Buses/trips going ghost only exacerbates the problem.... It's a royal f*** up, no matter how it's sliced.

As for the 14th st. bit... Yeah, I mean really - how much are you really saving by stubbing these damn buses at 14th? Nothing should be ending at 14th; it's enough with the old network that you had as many people disembarking at that first stop in Lwr. Manhattan (Trinity/Rector or whatever it is) for the subway..... It's as if this is what they're trying to promote......

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

2- ...and those are the types of lies I'm talking about... Sodomizing riders with no vaseline; not only are you doing whatever you want, but justifying your BS with fabrications on top of it.... Where was all this talk about stop consolidation & express stops being closer than local stops 5-to-10+ years ago, if it was such this big damn problem....

Something else you point out here though annoys me more, to be honest... It's the fact that you have some of those that do go to these meetings to have their voices heard, either don't know how to effectively drive home a point/concern, or embellishes the f*** out of it.... Concerning the latter, you should hear how loud I get in here where I'm watching playbacks of these MTA meetings & some commuter tells a boldfaced lie of their own, in (I'm guessing) some lame attempt to get the MTA to make whatever change they want to have made.... Or just overall conveys themselves like they're complete, uneducated fools that just happen to be talking about something public transit related.... That sort of thing muddies the water for the commuters that come in, say what they have to say, with potency, and 100% unadulterated truth behind it.... I'll go as far as to say that the MTA goes in looking for/wanting the QJT types to speak out....

It's easier (for those that are already ignorant to begin with) to deal with a legion of feeble-minded idiots, than it is it deal with a collective of intelligent, honest, hard working men & women <---> studious (college) students studying to eventually become those same hard working, productive men/women in the future..... They don't want either of the latter attending these meetings.

3- There was no trunk line per se, true... However, you at least had the x12/42, x30, and I believe the x14 that ran across 57th due west, to end over at 11th....

4- Ridiculous.... Now I can understand applying for a job (considering your commuting options before the fact & planning ahead that way).... But to have someone have to change their schedule to risk getting stranded (or severely inconvenienced, let me put it that way) and/or risk getting fired, is just downright wrong.... That's the type of shit that can kickstart someone completely uprooting & moving elsewhere....

Some saturdays when I have to come in, one of my best workers I can no longer consider putting him down for a saturday, thanks to the n27 weekend cuts (no, I'm not one of these "get a car" or you're fired types)..... That's the weekend & fortunately for him, it's not mandatory for the hourly guys to come in...... (Hearing/Reading about) People having to change their schedules for something public transportation related always sickened me, even before I reached the managerial level..... Matter of fact, it pisses me off more now.... Chance for the man to earn some extra bread for him & his fam', right down the toilet bowl....

It's just not right, man.

Overcrowding, yes, but not people getting flagged.... Buses/trips going ghost only exacerbates the problem.... It's a royal f*** up, no matter how it's sliced.

As for the 14th st. bit... Yeah, I mean really - how much are you really saving by stubbing these damn buses at 14th? Nothing should be ending at 14th; it's enough with the old network that you had as many people disembarking at that first stop in Lwr. Manhattan (Trinity/Rector or whatever it is) for the subway..... It's as if this is what they're trying to promote......

Trying to... lol

[B35 via Church]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Trying to... lol

are they?

You tell me... You've spoken out in these meetings.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, B35 via Church said:

are they?

You tell me... You've spoken out in these meetings.

Without a question... That's the way this new network was designed IMO.  I think you can keep this network, but it definitely needs to be tweaked, not just with the frequencies but where trips end. I support having fewer stops and more direct routes, but not necessarily all of the transferring involved, nor the crazy placement of some stops. For example, I'm not sure I agree with having so many buses end at Chambers street.  It creates too much congestion.  Have some of those trips end at Worth Street instead like they used to, which addresses two issues... You have fewer buses concentrated in a few areas, and you provide more coverage to people that need it.

[Lil 57]

6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Without a question... That's the way this new network was designed IMO.  I think you can keep this network, but it definitely needs to be tweaked, not just with the frequencies but where trips end. I support having fewer stops and more direct routes, but not necessarily all of the transferring involved, nor the crazy placement of some stops. For example, I'm not sure I agree with having so many buses end at Chambers street.  It creates too much congestion.  Have some of those trips end at Worth Street instead like they used to, which addresses two issues... You have fewer buses concentrated in a few areas, and you provide more coverage to people that need it.

I think that the downtown buses are supposed to end at Worth St. But construction are having the buses end at Chambers St.

[B35 via Church]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Without a question... That's the way this new network was designed IMO.  I think you can keep this network, but it definitely needs to be tweaked, not just with the frequencies but where trips end. I support having fewer stops and more direct routes, but not necessarily all of the transferring involved, nor the crazy placement of some stops. For example, I'm not sure I agree with having so many buses end at Chambers street.  It creates too much congestion.  Have some of those trips end at Worth Street instead like they used to, which addresses two issues... You have fewer buses concentrated in a few areas, and you provide more coverage to people that need it.

I think they can take this new network, their cute little P&R variants, their (further) marring of North Shore service, their overzealous, trigger-finger happy eradication of express bus stops, their continuous lies about how good this new network is, and shove it ALL where the sun don't shine.....

The rest of what you bring up here though, well AFAIC it goes back to an older point you made about a month or so ago about intentionally causing congestion to spearhead congestion pricing..... You have to be living under a frickin rock to not know/know about the congestion plaguing "the real" Manhattan......

[checkmatechamp13]

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I know we're talking about this SI abomination right now, but what I'm going to point out is something more macro.... The MTA uses stats to justify cuts, not to improve service & that is a large part of where the problem lies.... It justifies the culture that's been solidified & ingrained in those doing/have been doing the major decision making in this agency for quite some time now... Illustrates just how much they truly think about the riding public..... Honestly.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. My train of thought was always "Let's get all of the stats out there, and we'll discuss how to interpret them". Their train of thought is always "Let's come up with our ideas, and try to twist the stats or the interpretation of the stats to suit that idea".

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

If there are no complaints (especially from the "right" people), there will be no service improvements..... That's not how public transportation should be doled (or otherwise provided) out....

Agreed.

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The suggested influx of more P&R's on the island IMO is a way to try to make SI appear/portrayed as more suburban than it really is.... You don't get to bitch about being neglected (compared to the other boroughs) & go hell or high water with wanting to be more suburban than the other boroughs at the same time.....

The point of an express bus was to originally do away with 2-fare zones.... That can (and did) include the subway..... To have the belief of commuter express bus travel not having people take subways afterwards, is not mutually exclusive to the belief that the point of public transit is to quell (or for the staunch, pro-transit folks, completely do away with) the amount of driving being done.... I'm not sure if you were trying to pose that as some sort of contrarian point or something, but I do want to point that out regardless.... I do agree though that for a public transportation agency to actually promote driving in any facet, defeats the purpose... Or to parrot the adjective you use, Stupid.

One of the big issues that has come up (throughout this whole process) is the topic of off-peak service. Some people say the old system of 3 off-peak routes serving both Downtown & Midtown was sufficient because "You can always drive to the X1/10/17 and they'll get you to the main areas in Manhattan". My view is that there's way too many areas on Staten Island without off-peak express coverage, and the off-peak local service is very inadequate (or in some cases, nonexistent, especially in parts of the South Shore) to say that you can just take a local bus to connect with one of those routes. People without a car shouldn't be screwed over and forced to make a harder transfer on the Staten Island end (as opposed to an easier transfer on the Manhattan end) just because some people who have the option of driving to the express bus don't want to make any transfer. You can toss in some Midtown routes getting off-peak service (The SIM6 comes to mind right away, as does the SIM26 if they added a stop at Arthur Kill Road) so people still have those options as well.

Another thing that has come up is the issue of the South Beach Park & Ride. I supported the idea of having the Hylan routes operate in the "New Dorp via Hylan" and "Eltingville via Father Capodanno" pattern because Father Capodanno is the quicker approach to the bridge, so it doesn't make sense to have riders south of Midland forced to sit through the slower route. But these people are hyping it up and saying "We should have all of these options for the people driving to "Park-and-Ride" (they don't call it South Beach or anything. If you say Park-and-Ride, it's assumed you mean South Beach). As far as I'm concerned, the fact that "Park-and-Ride" is on Father Capodanno is just a side bonus. It shouldn't be used as the main justification for any type of service improvements.

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

If that was the case (what you state as the whole point of this redesign supposedly being), then they really don't/never realized just how riders, system-wide were using the expresses with the old setup.... It should not take a redesign of an entire bus network to address that issue.... As you probably know/realize, I'm big on adages, and here's the perfect one to describe it - Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

.....and STILL didn't get it right.

What annoys me is that they talk about how they keep on "tweaking" the service, and I'm sitting there like "You could've probably accomplished the same thing by "tweaking" the old system in organized stages (maybe the South Shore routes, then the Hylan routes, then the North/West Shore routes) instead of half-assing this whole thing and then scrambling to try and fix it.

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

It's one thing if we're talking about those living in the sticks of NNJ P&R-ing to Ringwood for a bus to PABT.... However, to have SI-ers driving 5 miles or less to a P&R to catch a bus because the route that's proximate to them is rather useless (a commuter needing downtown with said route being a midtown route, or vice versa), or has too narrow a span, and/or has infrequent service, is quite another....

Agreed.

8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

2- ...and those are the types of lies I'm talking about... Sodomizing riders with no vaseline; not only are you doing whatever you want, but justifying your BS with fabrications on top of it.... Where was all this talk about stop consolidation & express stops being closer than local stops 5-to-10+ years ago, if it was such this big damn problem....

Something else you point out here though annoys me more, to be honest... It's the fact that you have some of those that do go to these meetings to have their voices heard, either don't know how to effectively drive home a point/concern, or embellishes the f*** out of it.... Concerning the latter, you should hear how loud I get in here where I'm watching playbacks of these MTA meetings & some commuter tells a boldfaced lie of their own, in (I'm guessing) some lame attempt to get the MTA to make whatever change they want to have made.... Or just overall conveys themselves like they're complete, uneducated fools that just happen to be talking about something public transit related.... That sort of thing muddies the water for the commuters that come in, say what they have to say, with potency, and 100% unadulterated truth behind it.... I'll go as far as to say that the MTA goes in looking for/wanting the QJT types to speak out....

It's easier (for those that are already ignorant to begin with) to deal with a legion of feeble-minded idiots, than it is it deal with a collective of intelligent, honest, hard working men & women <---> studious (college) students studying to eventually become those same hard working, productive men/women in the future..... They don't want either of the latter attending these meetings.

3- There was no trunk line per se, true... However, you at least had the x12/42, x30, and I believe the x14 that ran across 57th due west, to end over at 11th....

4- Ridiculous.... Now I can understand applying for a job (considering your commuting options before the fact & planning ahead that way).... But to have someone have to change their schedule to risk getting stranded (or severely inconvenienced, let me put it that way) and/or risk getting fired, is just downright wrong.... That's the type of shit that can kickstart someone completely uprooting & moving elsewhere....

Some saturdays when I have to come in, one of my best workers I can no longer consider putting him down for a saturday, thanks to the n27 weekend cuts (no, I'm not one of these "get a car" or you're fired types)..... That's the weekend & fortunately for him, it's not mandatory for the hourly guys to come in...... (Hearing/Reading about) People having to change their schedules for something public transportation related always sickened me, even before I reached the managerial level..... Matter of fact, it pisses me off more now.... Chance for the man to earn some extra bread for him & his fam', right down the toilet bowl....

It's just not right, man.

Overcrowding, yes, but not people getting flagged.... Buses/trips going ghost only exacerbates the problem.... It's a royal f*** up, no matter how it's sliced.

As for the 14th st. bit... Yeah, I mean really - how much are you really saving by stubbing these damn buses at 14th? Nothing should be ending at 14th; it's enough with the old network that you had as many people disembarking at that first stop in Lwr. Manhattan (Trinity/Rector or whatever it is) for the subway..... It's as if this is what they're trying to promote......

2 - Agreed. That's what annoys me with these meetings in general....the people with valid points have their concerns drowned out (often literally, because those people embellishing their points are often loud-mouths to begin with). I mean, shoot, the number of people harping on the fact that one of the planners was born in North Carolina....I mean let's get to the real issue, wherever these people were born, the fact of the matter is they had no idea what they were doing. The fact that the Battery Place approach to the tunnel is more congested than the approach from the World Financial Center was actually news to them (and their headquarters are right by Battery Place at 2 Broadway) says enough.

3 - True, and I agree that something should be ending in far West Midtown (especially since those routes either deadhead to Quill for midday storage or deadhead down the West Side Highway back to SI). One of the planners said that it gives them a little more flexibility to deadhead via the FDR or West Side Highway, but the thing that really pissed me off was "We don't want people to think it's OK to take buses from all the way over here". (In the meantime, in this supposedly transfer-based system, they missed the connection point at Columbus Circle to all the subway lines that go up to the UWS and beyond). And if somebody is getting on the SIM3/X42 at John Jay or they're taking the M31/57 down the same path as a deadheading SIM3 to reach 6th Avenue, what's the difference?

4 - Agreed. And in the end, it affects people's personal lives and the overall economy. The person misses out on the overtime and as a result, maybe doesn't buy that computer or whatever it is they wanted, and of course, the government misses out on the tax revenue.....which ultimately ends up affecting the MTA.

As for the 14th Street buses, they didn't want people using the SIM7/10 interchangeably or the SIM3/33 interchangeably (one of the things they mentioned was that with overlapping routes, it's difficult to determine which routes actually need more service scheduled because people keep switching off). And to a point, I understand where they're coming from on that (if more service is needed on a particular route, it should be added directly to that route, not to the backup option)....but at the same time to make that statement, but then try to get people from the SIM4C to switch off to the SIM3C because it suits whatever agenda they're trying to push is just wrong. (And from what I understand, buses end up deadheading along 23rd to reach the FDR anyway). 

8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

are they?

You tell me... You've spoken out in these meetings.

Actually, Downtown service was where they messed up the worst. The X17A/SIM4 is a shell of its former self (there's another round of cuts to it coming up on October 8th). Granted, there were some screw-ups in Midtown (the SIM31 being the biggest one), but IMO, Downtown got it far worse. Which is the opposite of what I was expecting (I was thinking that since Staten Island is closer to Downtown, they would try to screw with the Midtown routes to get people to take the Downtown routes and then take the subway up). 

What happened was that with a lot of Midtown-via-Downtown routes, they copy-pasted the schedules and just had the buses bypass Downtown (So they took the X7 and copy-pasted a lot of pieces of the schedule to the SIM6. They copy-pasted pieces of the X1 to the SIM10. They copy-pasted pieces of the X10 to the SIM3, you get the idea. Their "savings of end-to-end runtimes of up to 20 minutes" mostly came about by having buses bypass Downtown (not cutting Midtown buses short of Downtown)

I'll put it to you this way, what finally got me to fully side with those complaining was when I saw the ridiculous schedules they planned for the SIM4C & SIM7 (and then the gaps in peak/off-peak service). That SIM7 schedule was spitework for the Hylan riders who wanted West Street & Greenwich Village service (which I thought was a perfectly reasonable request from when they first presented the plan in June 2017, though most of the commens didn't come in until the October 2017 meetings)

8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Without a question... That's the way this new network was designed IMO.  I think you can keep this network, but it definitely needs to be tweaked, not just with the frequencies but where trips end. I support having fewer stops and more direct routes, but not necessarily all of the transferring involved, nor the crazy placement of some stops. For example, I'm not sure I agree with having so many buses end at Chambers street.  It creates too much congestion.  Have some of those trips end at Worth Street instead like they used to, which addresses two issues... You have fewer buses concentrated in a few areas, and you provide more coverage to people that need it.

 

7 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I think that the downtown buses are supposed to end at Worth St. But construction are having the buses end at Chambers St.

Lil57 got it.

One of the things I've been pushing (not as my own idea, but one I support) is @SIMplicity's idea of having some buses run the reverse Downtown route. Start at Battery Place, go up Church and across Murray, and enter the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel through the northern part of West Street.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@checkmatechamp13 My understanding is that you're handling express bus issues on the North Shore.  Can you advise regarding SIM30, SIM33 and SIM35 service (frequency adjustments, etc.), as well as any X14 restoration plans (Midtown only service along Forest Avenue)?  Thanks.

[checkmatechamp13]

46 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

@checkmatechamp13 My understanding is that you're handling express bus issues on the North Shore.  Can you advise regarding SIM30, SIM33 and SIM35 service (frequency adjustments, etc.), as well as any X14 restoration plans (Midtown only service along Forest Avenue)?  Thanks.

I'll double check but off the top of my head, the SIM30 hasn't had any changes whatsoever, the SIM35 lost (I believe) 2 trips in the AM and 2 trips in the PM (it's now every 15 minutes at a minimum. To be fair, a lot of people switched to the SIM3 and SIM30 and some of them actually do live close to Watchogue but used the X14 because of the better span/frequency than the X42, but now use the SIM3), and the SIM33 gained a 2:40pm trip from 14th Street but no frequency adjustments.

Route-wise, I've been pushing to have the SIM33 bypass the congested Victory/Richmond intersection, which screws up the entire line in the morning (both for Graniteville/Mariners Harbor and the Gannon cooridor). Run it down Christopher/Morani and give us the SIM4 service we need instead of a backup option we can't use because it takes too long.

For the SIM30 I've proposed splitting it. Cut the route back to Jewett and have another route cover the eastern part of Forest & Victory (similar to the X16, but going to Midtown). Give Rosebank back the old X18 to Downtown and add a Midtown variant if possible. Even if it's a few trips a day it's still better than the way the SIM30 is structured.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'll double check but off the top of my head, the SIM30 hasn't had any changes whatsoever, the SIM35 lost (I believe) 2 trips in the AM and 2 trips in the PM (it's now every 15 minutes at a minimum. To be fair, a lot of people switched to the SIM3 and SIM30 and some of them actually do live close to Watchogue but used the X14 because of the better span/frequency than the X42, but now use the SIM3), and the SIM33 gained a 2:40pm trip from 14th Street but no frequency adjustments.

Route-wise, I've been pushing to have the SIM33 bypass the congested Victory/Richmond intersection, which screws up the entire line in the morning (both for Graniteville/Mariners Harbor and the Gannon cooridor). Run it down Christopher/Morani and give us the SIM4 service we need instead of a backup option we can't use because it takes too long.

For the SIM30 I've proposed splitting it. Cut the route back to Jewett and have another route cover the eastern part of Forest & Victory (similar to the X16, but going to Midtown). Give Rosebank back the old X18 to Downtown and add a Midtown variant if possible. Even if it's a few trips a day it's still better than the way the SIM30 is structured.

Ok, that sounds good.  We can support that. Do you need petitions circulated?

[checkmatechamp13]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Ok, that sounds good.  We can support that. Do you need petitions circulated?

I'll get back to you on that. Right now, the main cuts seem to be to the SIM4 and I'm trying to put something together to get them to stop any further cuts to that line, because they've been ruthless so far.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'll get back to you on that. Right now, the main cuts seem to be to the SIM4 and I'm trying to put something together to get them to stop any further cuts to that line, because they've been ruthless so far.

Got it.  I just don't want to step on anyone's toes.  In the meantime, we'll be continuing to look at how we can work with Road ops and the DOT to keep those bus lanes clear. I was walking along 5th this morning for a bit and they had Traffic police out and about doing blitzes.

[limitednyc]

isn't the  the sim 4  the same as the old 17A,. can u compare the service level  pre restructuring with the current/new schedule.  they also added service on the 4c   in the pm shoulder and between 7 and 10 pm . 

[Lil 57]

I'm thinking that it would be good to reconstruct off-peak service for the SIM3c and 4c routes.

1. Create a new off-peak route, The SIM32c. This route would be the SIM32 in Staten Island, but also would stop along the Narrows Road. (The SIM3c would bypass the Narrows Road). The route would to East Midtown via Church/Madison. The span and headways on this would be similar to the X10.

2. The SIM3c would skip the Narrows Road like I said earlier and Sunday evening service to SI would be every 30 mins instead of every 55-60 minutes.

3. The SIM4c would be extended to Woodrow/Huguenot at all times and would hit follow the X17c routing north of the ETC, skipping Gannon Ave. Sunday service would run every 30 mins all day.

4. The SIM3c/4c and 32c would run until 2:15 AM weekdays, 1:00 AM Saturdays and Midnight on Sundays.

 

[P3F]

11 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I'm thinking that it would be good to reconstruct off-peak service for the SIM3c and 4c routes.

1. Create a new off-peak route, The SIM32c. This route would be the SIM32 in Staten Island, but also would stop along the Narrows Road. (The SIM3c would bypass the Narrows Road). The route would to East Midtown via Church/Madison. The span and headways on this would be similar to the X10.

2. The SIM3c would skip the Narrows Road like I said earlier and Sunday evening service to SI would be every 30 mins instead of every 55-60 minutes.

3. The SIM4c would be extended to Woodrow/Huguenot at all times and would hit follow the X17c routing north of the ETC, skipping Gannon Ave. Sunday service would run every 30 mins all day.

4. The SIM3c/4c and 32c would run until 2:15 AM weekdays, 1:00 AM Saturdays and Midnight on Sundays.

 

SIM32c cannot fit onto the buses' front route signs.

[Future ENY OP]

32 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I'm thinking that it would be good to reconstruct off-peak service for the SIM3c and 4c routes.

1. Create a new off-peak route, The SIM32c. This route would be the SIM32 in Staten Island, but also would stop along the Narrows Road. (The SIM3c would bypass the Narrows Road). The route would to East Midtown via Church/Madison. The span and headways on this would be similar to the X10.

2. The SIM3c would skip the Narrows Road like I said earlier and Sunday evening service to SI would be every 30 mins instead of every 55-60 minutes.

3. The SIM4c would be extended to Woodrow/Huguenot at all times and would hit follow the X17c routing north of the ETC, skipping Gannon Ave. Sunday service would run every 30 mins all day.

4. The SIM3c/4c and 32c would run until 2:15 AM weekdays, 1:00 AM Saturdays and Midnight on Sundays.

 

We don’t need a SIM32c for this. Let’s stop using letter abbreviations just to save on money.

In this case an SIM36 would be useful for something like this. 

[SIMplicity]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

In the meantime, we'll be continuing to look at how we can work with Road ops and the DOT to keep those bus lanes clear. I was walking along 5th this morning for a bit and they had Traffic police out and about doing blitzes.

Today and last week I’ve noticed in particular NYPD has been enforcing the Gowanus SI-bound HOV lane in the afternoon near the beginning where it passes over the Prospect Expwy interchange. Every day I’ve seen at least one person pulled over.

But the HOV lane on the SIE in the morning can be a mess. People weave in and out. Not only do we need NYPD enforcement, we need bollards or something to prevent people from doing that. 

And we need legislation allowing cameras on the front of the buses enforcing the bus lanes.

Today there were dispatchers downtown, checking buses and doing head counts. Interesting that this is happening after the pick and new schedules.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

Today and last week I’ve noticed in particular NYPD has been enforcing the Gowanus SI-bound HOV lane in the afternoon near the beginning where it passes over the Prospect Expwy interchange. Every day I’ve seen at least one person pulled over.

But the HOV lane on the SIE in the morning can be a mess. People weave in and out. Not only do we need NYPD enforcement, we need bollards or something to prevent people from doing that. 

And we need legislation allowing cameras on the front of the buses enforcing the bus lanes.

Today there were dispatchers downtown, checking buses and doing head counts. Interesting that this is happening after the pick and new schedules.

Yes, I was on 5th Avenue this morning checking out enforcement of the bus lanes and saw the usual Staten Island dispatcher that I see pacing about, who seemed to do a double take as if to say is that that guy who is running that express bus advocacy group? LOL I'm pretty sure that the word is getting out.  I'm cool with it.  We just set up the Facebook group for anyone who wants to join.  (Express Bus Advocacy Group)

[Lil 57]

47 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

We don’t need a SIM32c for this. Let’s stop using letter abbreviations just to save on money.

In this case an SIM36 would be useful for something like this. 

 

1 hour ago, P3F said:

SIM32c cannot fit onto the buses' front route signs

Didn't the "C" variants of the X routes not say C on them? The X1 always said X1.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

 

Didn't the "C" variants of the X routes not say C on them? The X1 always said X1.

There was the X10B and X10 and the X17J and X10C.