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Deucey

How fast do expresses actually travel?

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16 hours ago, Italianstallion said:

That's encouraging news. Byford says he is having timers looked into. Maybe this is the fruit of that examination.

In the AM rush it has helped a little, as the manhattan bound express trains no longer are stacked at Elmhurst Ave like they used to be. The PM rush express is still relatively slow. 

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You all don't say much about the <7>. The part from 61 to Junction was pretty fast (82st to 90th being the fastest part of the whole (7)). Queensboro to 61 has to many curves. I lived right next to Junction Blvd station and I would watch the R62As fly into the station and hear the deceleration from my fire escape. I love the noise that an R62 or older smee makes when slowing down. I can hear that all day.   

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On 10/2/2018 at 12:57 PM, Q23 via 108 said:

You all don't say much about the <7>. The part from 61 to Junction was pretty fast (82st to 90th being the fastest part of the whole (7)). Queensboro to 61 has to many curves. I lived right next to Junction Blvd station and I would watch the R62As fly into the station and hear the deceleration from my fire escape. I love the noise that an R62 or older smee makes when slowing down. I can hear that all day.   

THE FASTEST ON A 62A I've gotten was 42mph on that stretch! Never was able to get a <7> close to 50! If there wasn't so many timers going down the downgrade in the East River Tube, I know i can get it to 50mph! But i'll never know!

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On 10/2/2018 at 12:57 PM, Q23 via 108 said:

I love the noise that an R62 or older smee makes when slowing down. I can hear that all day.   

Nothing beats the sound of an R142 for me when decelerating from 40+ mph, that shriek..

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On 9/20/2018 at 9:27 AM, RR503 said:

You’re spot on with that last point. It, coupled with the variability in operation incurred when human TOs address the timers, makes up a significant portion of gaps/delays. 

From GCT south on Lex, I’m pretty sure it’s 20 out of the curve, then unlimited until you hit the GTs entering 14 (they’re, what, 20 or 25?). That stretch isn’t long enough for you to get much above 40 — if you even get there. 

After 14, you have a short section of free running, but then at Bleecker, it’s GTs in the 30mph range pretty much all the way to BBCH. Then there are some GTs coming off the curve into Fulton, and entering Bowling Green. I *believe* those are both 20... 

If you want really fast running, try the (N)(W) into 60th, eastbound QB express around Woodhaven Blvd, westbound at 65 and into the Northern Boulevard Bypass, IRT West Side from 42 to 72, and s/b 8th Av into 42 and 14. All those stretches get above 40 easily, and I’ve been on (N)s which have crested 50 into 60th. Alas, during the Culver El station rehabs, (F)s would fly. I was one ones which did 45... Until next time, I guess. 

One fun thing about CBTC is that when installed, trains’ traction computers are reprogrammed to accelerate faster and reach higher speeds. Let’s just say I’m looking forward to QB exp... 

____

All of this said, I think that the reduction in speed isn't the biggest issue with GT proliferation -- it's the erosion of capacity. In many areas, GTs reduce train speeds well below what the area's signal spacing was designed for. That means that while train spacing is remaining constant, the time it takes for trains to cover those gaps is increasing, which translates into lower throughput. In clear water running, that reduction of a few tph matters little, but when it's time to recover from an incident, the absence of that give in line capacity makes the difference between some isolated delays and total gridlock. 

My (F) yesterday went 47 going westbound at 65 and into the Northern Boulevard Bypass. That was really nice!

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7 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

My (F) yesterday went 47 going westbound at 65 and into the Northern Boulevard Bypass. That was really nice!

Ah! Lucky! Most ops slow for that curve, but then some don’t...boy is that a ride. 

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5 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Ah! Lucky! Most ops slow for that curve, but then some don’t...boy is that a ride. 

I love it when my (E) takes that downgrade/curve after 65th at full speed and it starts making that growling noise

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7 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I love it when my (E) takes that downgrade/curve after 65th at full speed and it starts making that growling noise

Indeed. That’s how all curves should be — the fact that we have timers that enforce comfort speed is an atrocity. 

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A few more QBL observations about speed during the AM and PM rush. 

The (R) i was on got sent expressfrom Queens Plaza to 71 Ave on the express track, probably to make up time. While not as fast on the express as an off peak train, it was probably 30ish the whole time. Only stopped right before Roosevelt for a train in the station, and the station time approach felt smooth. This is despite following an (E) right ahead of us. 

Afterwards, while waiting for a local at Roosevelt Ave, I noticed that Manhattan bound (E) and (F) were flying into the station. Not one after another, so I wonder if those problematic timers are the station timers. 

Lastly, the Manhattan bound (E) and (F) dont seem to stack up at Elmhurst Ave like they used to in the AM rush. 

Seems like improvements are slowly but surely being made

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Another observation trainwatching at Forest Hills 71 Ave during the PM rush while waiting to meet someone.

There are four(!) mid-platform signals on the Jamaica bound express track. All have ST20 timers and one shot DT25 timers. 

The ST20 timers clear nowhere close to 20, and the time between trains not including dwells is just over a minute. Any excess dwell or TO hesitation makes it worse. The homeball at the east end of the platform barely clears to yellow over green about 30 seconds after the following train enters the station. 

STs west of the station allow the following train to close in about 100-200 feet behind. 

This creates an unnecessary backup to just west of 63rd Dr and the ride from Roosevelt Ave to Forest Hills took 8 minutes. 

The STs and that diverging timer at 75 ave needs to be fixed pronto. 

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On 10/13/2018 at 12:32 AM, RR503 said:

Indeed. That’s how all curves should be — the fact that we have timers that enforce comfort speed is an atrocity. 

Is that actually something the MTA considers when placing timers ? 

Edited by brakethrow

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9 minutes ago, brakethrow said:

Is that actually something the MTA considers when placing timers ? 

Yes, sadly. 

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14 hours ago, brakethrow said:

Is that actually something the MTA considers when placing timers ? 

No! Not Fully, but thats part of it... fact is some T/Os are reckless

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On 9/20/2018 at 8:07 AM, biGC323232 said:

Southbound (4)(5) between 125-59th street at times reaches 50-55 mph depending on the motorman....

Wow they changed up those timers???

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16 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Another observation trainwatching at Forest Hills 71 Ave during the PM rush while waiting to meet someone.

There are four(!) mid-platform signals on the Jamaica bound express track. All have ST20 timers and one shot DT25 timers. 

The ST20 timers clear nowhere close to 20, and the time between trains not including dwells is just over a minute. Any excess dwell or TO hesitation makes it worse. The homeball at the east end of the platform barely clears to yellow over green about 30 seconds after the following train enters the station. 

STs west of the station allow the following train to close in about 100-200 feet behind. 

This creates an unnecessary backup to just west of 63rd Dr and the ride from Roosevelt Ave to Forest Hills took 8 minutes. 

The STs and that diverging timer at 75 ave needs to be fixed pronto. 

Fixed?? This is how they want it....

I go through that five days a week and its the same story unless there is  No train in front of you this is the Norm...

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On 10/13/2018 at 12:17 AM, RR503 said:

Ah! Lucky! Most ops slow for that curve, but then some don’t...boy is that a ride. 

We slow down because the Speed gets reduced from 45 Mph At 65th street to 35 Mph on that Curve....

You can throw people in the back end of the train if you take that curve at 45 mph...

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21 minutes ago, I Run Trains said:

No! Not Fully, but thats part of it... fact is some T/Os are reckless

VERY reckless..

Thats why 2 Bway is standing room only sadly...

I tell it to New TOs all the time.. 

If you come down here with that "Need for speed" attitude you gonna see Mike Lenny and Chris and Company soon enough..

Oh wait Ms Gibbs first because most likely they still on probation...

Edited by RTOMan

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3 hours ago, RTOMan said:

VERY reckless..

Thats why 2 Bway is standing room only sadly...

I tell it to New TOs all the time.. 

If you come down here with that "Need for speed" attitude you gonna see Mike Lenny and Chris and Company soon enough..

Oh wait Ms Gibbs first because most likely they still on probation...

Facts... and Ms Gibbs you don't wanna see............ When it comes to your job Lol

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4 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Wow they changed up those timers???

lol...I doubt its like that now...that was years ago

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6 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Fixed?? This is how they want it....

I go through that five days a week and its the same story unless there is  No train in front of you this is the Norm...

It’s being looked at. Hopefully they at least bring shit up to the posted speeds, if not include some leeway so an op going at 20 by a GT or ST20 can actually see the signal clear. 

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On 10/19/2018 at 11:20 AM, RTOMan said:

Wow they changed up those timers???

(4)(5) Should be flying between 125 , 86 and 59th, different level straight shot.

On 10/19/2018 at 11:28 AM, RTOMan said:

We slow down because the Speed gets reduced from 45 Mph At 65th street to 35 Mph on that Curve....

You can throw people in the back end of the train if you take that curve at 45 mph...

See that's where the MTA has a disconnect with it's customers. Whenever I see people thrown on the train, they laugh. :lol:

On 10/19/2018 at 11:29 AM, RTOMan said:

VERY reckless..

Thats why 2 Bway is standing room only sadly...

I tell it to New TOs all the time.. 

If you come down here with that "Need for speed" attitude you gonna see Mike Lenny and Chris and Company soon enough..

Oh wait Ms Gibbs first because most likely they still on probation...

As a passenger, I LOVE the "Need for speed" T/Os, LOVE THEM!  The train needs to be rocking straight through to the next station and flying by local stations if express!

The "Driving Miss Daisy" T/O's  (Whether it's due to timers, fear, flagging,etc) make me LOATHE riding the subway, I'm sure I'm not the only one judging the look on other passenger faces, the drop in subway ridership (and subsequently operating revenue).

Part of the drop in ridership is due to operating speeds, definitely.Operating speeds affect both Bus AND Subway ridership.

On 10/19/2018 at 5:57 PM, RR503 said:

It’s being looked at. Hopefully they at least bring shit up to the posted speeds, if not include some leeway so an op going at 20 by a GT or ST20 can actually see the signal clear. 

Yes I hope so. If the T/O has to crawl or constantly coast just to finally see a signal clear, that sucks for them and the passengers.

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The timers and SMEES de-shunted are a joke. I remember Northern Boulevard bypass in R-46's with P-Wire and hauling ass. They were even quick after overhaul, although being SMEE'd. In 1994 I used to commute to 59th & Lex from Elderts Lane in 50 minutes. To do that now I would need a helicopter. 

Edited by Ian Lennon
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On 10/13/2018 at 12:17 AM, RR503 said:

Ah! Lucky! Most ops slow for that curve, but then some don’t...boy is that a ride. 

Last week a TO went 43 through Woodhaven (the problem has been rectified) and 47 past 65th. Trains really can go 45-47 through Woodhaven. Haven't experienced that in some time.

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In between the 59 Street- Columbus Circle and 42 St- PABT stations, A Trains go 40- 50 MPH hauling into the southbound platform. Slow down very fast. This is very common omn the R32s and maybe the R46s

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Honestly, the (4) and (5) can haul below the East River in both directions b/w Brooklyn and Manhattan (Borough Hall- Bowling Green) They hit 50. The R142s are the type to hit 50 under the river.

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