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Bx9 SBS (Unofficial Plan, Study, Feedback)


Lawrence St

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On 9/27/2018 at 1:49 AM, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

I've seen bee-line buses make the stop at 242nd, drop everyone off, and swing over to the eastern lane to VC Park south many times.

And nearly cause accident's every time they do, especially with the articulated. 

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On 9/28/2018 at 2:06 PM, Lawrence St said:

Ok some of my observations from the Bx9 from the past week:

What could be done:

As for routing, SBS buses can operate via Bailey Avenue and as it won't replace the local service and take some pressure off of the local. Another idea is to have the outer lanes of Broadway become bus-only. SBS machines can also speed up the boarding process.

The pdf is great and I agree with the stops (small note its mosholu av).

I see the logic in routing it via Bailey because it'll be faster, but in terms of pressure I think that the opposite may happen (west of GC):

1. the SBS won't serve a well utilized stop.

2. the local service will get cut down and will still have to deal with the traffic on Broadway.

3. SBS service doesn't tend to hold due to bunching or wait for passengers.

IIRC one of the first issues that had to be corrected with the Bx12 SBS was that they wanted people to walk for better service when it should have been provided in the first place. Sedgwick was a LTD stop, Cedar & University were made SBS stops and people were told to use the local for Sedgwick or walk. That ignored the hill/bridge, the riders who already had to walk to the stop at Sedgwick, & the fact it made no sense to go east to get the (1) / (A). The stop had to be added back. I say this because the ridership at 225/Bway is a lot higher than the ridership at Sedgwick/Fordham. SBS via Bailey = most Bx9 service not connecting current riders to the (1), Bx7/20, BxM1/2/18 and Hudson Line.  It's about a 6-10 minute walk along 225 St between Bailey and Broadway (depending on the destination/connection and walking pace). In that amount of time, an eastbound rider could miss 1-2+ SBS buses with the possibility of a service gap (there generally won't be a crowd at the stops or traffic on Bailey to hold them).  Some people won't mind but add inclement weather/bags/work fatigue + the fact that people may still have to walk when they get off the bus and I think a decent amount of people are going to stay on the local. 

One possible solution is having split terminals: most SBS service ends at Marble Hill-225 and some go to Riverdale-262 via Bailey.  It's the only way I can think of the SBS keeping all the current direct connections while serving the whole route and making sure too much service isn't going to 262 or on Bailey. imo turning runs back east at 225 now, would improve things drastically.

SBS via Broadway would be doable if you remove the parking 230-239 St for bus lanes, make turns at 231 bus only (during SBS hours) and add another N-S street between Broadway and the Deegan (extend Putnam av south to exterior). 

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9 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

The pdf is great and I agree with the stops (small note its mosholu av).

I see the logic in routing it via Bailey because it'll be faster, but in terms of pressure I think that the opposite may happen (west of GC):

1. the SBS won't serve a well utilized stop.

2. the local service will get cut down and will still have to deal with the traffic on Broadway.

3. SBS service doesn't tend to hold due to bunching or wait for passengers.

IIRC one of the first issues that had to be corrected with the Bx12 SBS was that they wanted people to walk for better service when it should have been provided in the first place. Sedgwick was a LTD stop, Cedar & University were made SBS stops and people were told to use the local for Sedgwick or walk. That ignored the hill/bridge, the riders who already had to walk to the stop at Sedgwick, & the fact it made no sense to go east to get the (1) / (A). The stop had to be added back. I say this because the ridership at 225/Bway is a lot higher than the ridership at Sedgwick/Fordham. SBS via Bailey = most Bx9 service not connecting current riders to the (1), Bx7/20, BxM1/2/18 and Hudson Line.  It's about a 6-10 minute walk along 225 St between Bailey and Broadway (depending on the destination/connection and walking pace). In that amount of time, an eastbound rider could miss 1-2+ SBS buses with the possibility of a service gap (there generally won't be a crowd at the stops or traffic on Bailey to hold them).  Some people won't mind but add inclement weather/bags/work fatigue + the fact that people may still have to walk when they get off the bus and I think a decent amount of people are going to stay on the local. 

One possible solution is having split terminals: most SBS service ends at Marble Hill-225 and some go to Riverdale-262 via Bailey.  It's the only way I can think of the SBS keeping all the current direct connections while serving the whole route and making sure too much service isn't going to 262 or on Bailey. imo turning runs back east at 225 now, would improve things drastically.

SBS via Broadway would be doable if you remove the parking 230-239 St for bus lanes, make turns at 231 bus only (during SBS hours) and add another N-S street between Broadway and the Deegan (extend Putnam av south to exterior). 

This is why I would rather install bus lanes on Broadway but only be in effect during rush hours (it should be in effect from 7 AM to 9 PM because there are so many parking lots around the area but whatever.)

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On 10/2/2018 at 11:32 PM, Q43 Floral Park said:

 

 

SBS via Broadway would be doable if you remove the parking 230-239 St for bus lanes, make turns at 231 bus only (during SBS hours) and add another N-S street between Broadway and the Deegan (extend Putnam av south to exterior). 

If extending Putnam Ave. were ever possible, it certainly is no longer, given all the new malls constructed next to the old Putnam ROW in recent years.

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41 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

If extending Putnam Ave. were ever possible, it certainly is no longer, given all the new malls constructed next to the old Putnam ROW in recent years.

That whole area is a traffic nightmare. I avoid it like the plague.  I see that they built an island now right next to the 242nd street station for the Bx9... Interesting.  I needed a Metrocard refill for the express bus, so I walked down Manhattan College Parkway over there the other day and noticed it.  I would say that these changes to Broadway have created more traffic.

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21 hours ago, Italianstallion said:

If extending Putnam Ave. were ever possible, it certainly is no longer, given all the new malls constructed next to the old Putnam ROW in recent years.

oddly enough they did extend Putnam Av... just south of 236 St and not far enough to have it intersect 234 St (it gave 50th more parking spaces I guess).

Walking over the overpasses, there still appears to be some room (1 lane each direction). Phase 1: add a connecting roadway between 236-237 going around the BJs and make an intersection at 234 St so those plazas have a bypass road (you'd need a light at 238/putnam).  Phase 2: South of 234 St run it at ground level (skipping 233-231) to intersect with Verveelen Pl. Phase 3: elevate it (I'm assuming some part of the ROW is still active) and extend Putnam Av until it ends at the 225 St overpass with an intersection at 230 St.

In theory, drivers using the Deegan/coming from the east to get to the shopping plazas wouldn't have to touch Broadway (you can get in/out of every parking lot from the side streets). I know new roadways tend to generate more traffic, but it could divert enough people for them to come up a viable bus lane solution under the el.

21 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 I would say that these changes to Broadway have created more traffic.

I'm glad I can bike/skate along the park if I want to but yeah... I'm also not sure adding traffic light after traffic light is the best move if they aren't synced to have traffic flowing properly.

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1 minute ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

I'm glad I can bike/skate along the park if I want to but yeah... I'm also not sure adding traffic light after traffic light is the best move if they aren't synced to have traffic flowing properly.

Well there's a lot more traffic along Broadway now than in the past. It's very noticeable when I walk down Manhattan College Parkway even and  then make my way to the BxM3 at 246th and Broadway.  Actually most people in that area were against the design, but the DOT basically decided for the community that it needed "traffic calming" measures implemented.  

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2 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

oddly enough they did extend Putnam Av... just south of 236 St and not far enough to have it intersect 234 St (it gave 50th more parking spaces I guess).

Walking over the overpasses, there still appears to be some room (1 lane each direction). Phase 1: add a connecting roadway between 236-237 going around the BJs and make an intersection at 234 St so those plazas have a bypass road (you'd need a light at 238/putnam).  Phase 2: South of 234 St run it at ground level (skipping 233-231) to intersect with Verveelen Pl. Phase 3: elevate it (I'm assuming some part of the ROW is still active) and extend Putnam Av until it ends at the 225 St overpass with an intersection at 230 St.

In theory, drivers using the Deegan/coming from the east to get to the shopping plazas wouldn't have to touch Broadway (you can get in/out of every parking lot from the side streets). I know new roadways tend to generate more traffic, but it could divert enough people for them to come up a viable bus lane solution under the el.

I'm glad I can bike/skate along the park if I want to but yeah... I'm also not sure adding traffic light after traffic light is the best move if they aren't synced to have traffic flowing properly.

Putnam was an old railroad right? 

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14 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

Yes, I think some part of it is still active between 225-230 but it turns into a trail by the time it hits VCP

MTA uses that short stretch above 225th as storage for Metro-North work trains. The rest, all the way up to Mahopac, is, as you say, abandoned and most of it starting in Van Cortlandt Park is now a bike trail. The stretch from V. C. Park South to the Metro-North area us still owned by the CSX railroad. The city wants to take it over to extend the trail south to the Harlem River.

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On 10/4/2018 at 3:06 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That whole area is a traffic nightmare. I avoid it like the plague.  I see that they built an island now right next to the 242nd street station for the Bx9... Interesting.  I needed a Metrocard refill for the express bus, so I walked down Manhattan College Parkway over there the other day and noticed it.  I would say that these changes to Broadway have created more traffic.

I drive that stretch from 242 to the city line regularly. Many in the community argued that congestion would increase with the addition of the bike lane and the consequent narrowing of the 2 traffic lanes. However, I do not find this to be the case. As far as avoiding Broadway below 242, Kingsbridge Ave. is relatively undiscovered and moves along quite well.

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1 hour ago, Italianstallion said:

I drive that stretch from 242 to the city line regularly. Many in the community argued that congestion would increase with the addition of the bike lane and the consequent narrowing of the 2 traffic lanes. However, I do not find this to be the case. As far as avoiding Broadway below 242, Kingsbridge Ave. is relatively undiscovered and moves along quite well.

That depends on when you are using that corridor. It’s definitely worse than it was before.

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On 9/20/2018 at 11:43 PM, Lawrence St said:

I think I made a thread back in June about the Bx9 SBS but I decided to start fresh over with all the ideas I wrote down from other commuters as well as other people on the fourm. Some changes include:

I've made a mock up PDF for the Bx9 SBS, so let me know what you all think and what adjustments need to be done. I think the routing around Fordham and Boston Road needs to be adjusted. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y_Xm9jCODJXk7f1VwodDu4gn8JbEX3Gb/view?usp=sharing

The Bx9 +SBS+ has more benefit ending at 225 St-Broadway because it is the busiest stretch, plus having the Bx9 +SBS+ go via Bailey Avenue is useless when you have the Bx10. People in Riverdale would not bother using the Bx9 +SBS+ because it would take them AWAY from Broadway, so if they want to go shopping on Broadway, they will stay with the Bx9 local. Second of all Bailey Avenue is mostly residential so bringing a Bx9 +SBS+ would bring uproar with NIMBY's who wouldn't want a Fare Machine in their sidewalk, let alone another bus route. Finally a Bx9 +SBS+ via Bailey Av would be detremental as you would eliminate all the connections to the (1) South of 242 Street, the purpose of the Bx9 in Riverdale is for people to go on Broadway not away from it. It's more practical terminating the Bx9 +SBS+ at 225 St-Broadway, anyone who wants to go north can transfer to the Bx9 local or the (1) train.

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1 hour ago, WestFarms36 said:

The Bx9 +SBS+ has more benefit ending at 225 St-Broadway because it is the busiest stretch, plus having the Bx9 +SBS+ go via Bailey Avenue is useless when you have the Bx10. People in Riverdale would not bother using the Bx9 +SBS+ because it would take them AWAY from Broadway, so if they want to go shopping on Broadway, they will stay with the Bx9 local. Second of all Bailey Avenue is mostly residential so bringing a Bx9 +SBS+ would bring uproar with NIMBY's who wouldn't want a Fare Machine in their sidewalk, let alone another bus route. Finally a Bx9 +SBS+ via Bailey Av would be detremental as you would eliminate all the connections to the (1) South of 242 Street, the purpose of the Bx9 in Riverdale is for people to go on Broadway not away from it. It's more practical terminating the Bx9 +SBS+ at 225 St-Broadway, anyone who wants to go north can transfer to the Bx9 local or the (1) train.

You don't think that cuts to much of the route? And how does that affect service coverage north of 225th? You'd be splitting the assigned fleet correct?  So fewer buses for Riverdale? The 9 is a weird one for SBS. Kinda feel like the 19 or the 40/42 crosstown would come before the 9 on the SBS list no?

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25 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

You don't think that cuts to much of the route? And how does that affect service coverage north of 225th? You'd be splitting the assigned fleet correct?  So fewer buses for Riverdale? The 9 is a weird one for SBS. Kinda feel like the 19 or the 40/42 crosstown would come before the 9 on the SBS list no?

Based on the routes theyve done in the past, it is.

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28 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

For sure I thought the B46 was a big cut at a Mile and a half. This would be close to 3 miles cut. From 262-225th.

So is the B82.

The one that shocked me the most was how they cut 85% of the stops on the s79 with no alternative.

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1 minute ago, Italianstallion said:

I've used it a various times, including evening rush. Much ado about nothing , like most NIMBY issues.

Well better for you and the folks down there. I don’t live down there so it doesn’t affect me much except when I need a Metrocard refill and take the BxM3. Interesting that you say it isn’t a big deal, yet you drive....

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4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well better for you and the folks down there. I don’t live down there so it doesn’t affect me much except when I need a Metrocard refill and take the BxM3. Interesting that you say it isn’t a big deal, yet you drive....

Why is that interesting? As a driver, I find it does not adversely impact traffic congestion.

BTW, I don't live "down there." I live a block off the HH Parkway.

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4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

So is the B82.

The one that shocked me the most was how they cut 85% of the stops on the s79 with no alternative.

B82 is about a mile and half cut from Stillwell about the same as the B46. The 79 has the 78 and 59 covering it with Alternatives.

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10 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

You don't think that cuts to much of the route? And how does that affect service coverage north of 225th? You'd be splitting the assigned fleet correct?  So fewer buses for Riverdale? The 9 is a weird one for SBS. Kinda feel like the 19 or the 40/42 crosstown would come before the 9 on the SBS list no?

Yes, the fleet would be split and Bus Frequencies up in Riverdale would not be reduced. The Bx9 Local and +SBS+ would have their frequencies split, continuing the Bx9 +SBS+ via Broadway would slow it down due to congestion anyway. There would be no Bus Cuts on the Bx9 between 225 St and 262 St.

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