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Pedestrian Observations: "Our Brooklyn Bus Redesign"


Around the Horn

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Ok, first of all: I think this plan is an absolute joke (which is a shame because I'm all for stop consolidation and POP, but the proposed routings are simply too much of an overcorrection). Nevertheless, I think the ideas within should be discussed.

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2018/09/19/our-brooklyn-bus-redesign/

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Eric Goldwyn and I spent about six months working on a Brooklyn bus redesign. I mentioned some aspects of it before here, on social media, and in blog comments, but not the overall shape. Eric and I gave a pair of presentations about our plan, one two days ago at the MTA in front of senior MTA planners and NYC DOT people and one today at TransitCenter in front of activists and mid-level MTA planners. We have a still-unreleased writeup explaining everything we’re doing with references to both public reports from various cities and peer-reviewed literature. Here I’m going to condense the 8,000-word writeup into a blog post length, going over the main points, including of course the proposed map.

image.jpeg

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1jlNHaMlJts2CSurIo2hNDyG2JzJvK8eD&ll=40.66096172471292%2C-73.9316935&z=11

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The map, in brief

The depicted version is 1.1. You can see a lower-resolution version 1.0 on Streetsblog, albeit with a different color code (the map we made for the presentation, reproduced on Streetsblog, uses red for the highest-frequency routes and blue for the lowest-frequency ones whereas the Google Earth version linked above is the opposite). It has 353 route-km, down from about 550 today, not including Grand and Metropolitan Avenues, which are Queens bus routes, shown on the map for completeness’s sake, without stopping pattern.

Some tails are cut due to low ridership or duplication of rail:

The B25 on Fulton goes.

The B37 on Third Avenue is consolidated into the B63 on Fifth.

The B45 and B65 are merged into one compromise route.

The B15 is cut east of the Long-Term Parking JFK AirTrain station (where service is free); ideally it would be cut east of City Line with passengers taking the subway to the AirTrain (as was the case in version 1.0), but I do not expect Port Authority to integrate AirTrain fares with the subway.

The B41 is cut north of Parkside Avenue, at the transfer to the B/Q.

Instead of two routes in Bed-Stuy between Nostrand (i.e. B44) and Malcolm X (i.e. B46), today’s B15 and B43, there’s just one route.

The B57 segment on Court and Smith Streets in South Brooklyn goes, as the subway serves the area in several directions.

The B39 over the Williamsburg Bridge goes.

The B32 and B62, providing north-south service through Williamsburg up to Long Island City, are merged into one compromise route.

The East New York bus network is circuitous (buses go to Gateway Center the long way around) and is straightened here.

In version 1.0, the B26 on Halsey was cut west of Franklin with a forced transfer to the subway, but the short distance to Downtown Brooklyn argues in favor of continuing to at least Flatbush.

Overall, this is a cut from 54 routes (including the separately-managed MTA Bus routes B100 and B103) to 37. The smaller network is far more frequent. The minimum frequency is,

Every 6 minutes between 6 am and 10 pm every day.

Every 10 minutes between 5 and 6 am and between 10 pm and midnight.

Every 30 minutes between midnight and 5 am; every 20 minutes with timed transfers to the subway is aspirational, but the subway doesn’t run reliably on a timetable overnight for such a system to be viable. The 30-minute night network could potentially involve mini-pulses in Downtown Brooklyn and smaller hubs (like East New York and Bay Ridge).

 

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12 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

The B39 over the Williamsburg Bridge goes.

The (MTA) better be planning to make Marcy Ave and Essex Street ADA accessable if they do cut it because the B39 runs to give people with disabilities easy access to Manhattan since those stations aren't ADA accessable.

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It looks like they just looked at the main brooklyn commercial and residential roads and just drew a line down the whole road or part of the road and called that a route... At least they consciously didn't make many duplicative routes, or routes that were too close together paralleling each other.

Seems like they aren't too in touch with riding patterns...

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1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

Ok, first of all: I think this plan is an absolute joke (which is a shame because I'm all for stop consolidation and POP, but the proposed routings are simply too much of an overcorrection). Nevertheless, I think the ideas within should be discussed.

This is the same guy that made a dumb proposal to deinterline the subway system. 

I don't need to criticize anything because IMO, this plan reeks of service cuts. It's gonna do more harm than good in this case. 

Just because there's bus routes within one block to the subway doesn't mean they should go...IMO...

The only thing I can do is this:

5543864653_d22bff6300_o.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

The (MTA) better be planning to make Marcy Ave and Essex Street ADA accessable if they do cut it because the B39 runs to give people with disabilities easy access to Manhattan since those stations aren't ADA accessable.

Marcy Av is already ADA compliant, but I do see your point.

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2 minutes ago, S78 via Hylan said:

Marcy Av is already ADA compliant, but I do see your point.

Oh, I never knew that Marcy Ave was already ADA compliant. Did this happen recently or am I'm behind on the ADA status for the subway stations.

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8 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Oh, I never knew that Marcy Ave was already ADA compliant. Did this happen recently or am I'm behind on the ADA status for the subway stations.

I think that station got ADA complaint in 2015. You still need the 39 if and when the (J) shuts down in Williamsburg and Lower Manhattan. 

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I think the only thing that makes sense is the mini pulses. Late night transit is useless without it. For example I believe the subway should serve Jamaica-179 and once the subway leaves, all the buses will leave at the same time 5 minutes later 

I think this is already done in Coney Island, where they have holding lights. St George Terminal I believe has holding lights too but they seems to never be used.

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10 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I think the only thing that makes sense is the mini pulses. Late night transit is useless without it. For example I believe the subway should serve Jamaica-179 and once the subway leaves, all the buses will leave at the same time 5 minutes later 

I think this is already done in Coney Island, where they have holding lights. St George Terminal I believe has holding lights too but they seems to never be used.

The lights are for the B36 & B68 I believe (I don't think the B82 is affected)

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B41 cut north of Parkside!? IDK if its still the case, but it was common for Kings Plaza/Bergen Beach bound B41s to be crushloaded by the time they got to Atlantic Ave when I fanned it in my High School years.. 

 

Only suggestion I got is for the off peak BM routes to follow the UP express routes routing in Manthattan.. 

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1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

B41 cut north of Parkside!? IDK if its still the case, but it was common for Kings Plaza/Bergen Beach bound B41s to be crushloaded by the time they got to Atlantic Ave when I fanned it in my High School years.. 

 

Only suggestion I got is for the off peak BM routes to follow the UP express routes routing in Manthattan.

That’s not going to work. You can’t have those buses going via 6th. The BM express are East side only and plus what do you tell the people who need 1st Avenue and Park Avenue So..

Now, if you establish a new BM route specifically for 6th Avenue to 57th than that’s different. 

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16 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I think the only thing that makes sense is the mini pulses. Late night transit is useless without it. For example I believe the subway should serve Jamaica-179 and once the subway leaves, all the buses will leave at the same time 5 minutes later 

I think this is already done in Coney Island, where they have holding lights. St George Terminal I believe has holding lights too but they seems to never be used.

St George ferry holding lights are used almost everyday on rush hour...

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47 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

That’s not going to work. You can’t have those buses going via 6th. The BM express are East side only and plus what do you tell the people who need 1st Avenue and Park Avenue So..

Now, if you establish a new BM route specifically for 6th Avenue to 57th than that’s different. 

Probably something for the original Metro Apple expresses could have done. More for the BM15 than the others since that route is closest to the BM1/3/4. 

As long as we are on the topic of BMs, I feel they will get SIM treatment when their time comes, with 6-9 being downtown variants of the 1-4 and the 1-4 becoming peak Express bypassing downtown with C variants running via downtown. 

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5 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Probably something for the original Metro Apple expresses could have done. More for the BM15 than the others since that route is closest to the BM1/3/4. 

As long as we are on the topic of BMs, I feel they will get SIM treatment when their time comes, with 6-9 being downtown variants of the 1-4 and the 1-4 becoming peak Express bypassing downtown with C variants running via downtown. 

I won't be shocked... Plus the whole Brooklyn bus grid will be a complete total mess and I'm not looking forward to the changes.

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2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

That’s not going to work. You can’t have those buses going via 6th. The BM express are East side only and plus what do you tell the people who need 1st Avenue and Park Avenue So..

Now, if you establish a new BM route specifically for 6th Avenue to 57th than that’s different. 

Off peak, the UP express routes travel down Park Ave, BK bound. And the BM and UP routes have the same route North of 23rd street, so having the BM run via 6th south of 23rd wouldn't be a issue.

 

Skipping that portion of Manthattan between 23rd and the Financial district is off peak is outdated IMO. The BM would probably get MORE ridership if they followed the UP express routes.. how many people in the BM service area is trying to go to Financial district on the weekend? IMO having only the Finanical district being the only portion of Lower Manhattan served by the BM is short sighted.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Off peak, the UP express routes travel down Park Ave, BK bound. And the BM and UP routes have the same route North of 23rd street, so having the BM run via 6th south of 23rd wouldn't be a issue.

 

Skipping that portion of Manthattan between 23rd and the Financial district is off peak is outdated IMO. The BM would probably get MORE ridership if they followed the UP express routes.. how many people in the BM service area is trying to go to Financial district on the weekend? IMO having only the Finanical district being the only portion of Lower Manhattan served by the BM is short sighted.

 

 

Nah. Not much between FIDI and 23 St. Routes more run via 6 Av/Broadway (in terms of Staten island) is for coverage reasons. I imagine it would be the same for the BMs and X27/28/37/38.

I mean by all means, nothing is stopping Byford from moving the BMs to this route, but I don't see why it would be needed for anything other than the Xs. They do a fine job there alone. Keep Manhattan service the way it is off-peak.

Also to add that unlike Staten Island, Brooklyn has plenty of subway service, further reducing the need for the BMs on 6/Broadway.

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1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Probably something for the original Metro Apple expresses could have done. More for the BM15 than the others since that route is closest to the BM1/3/4. 

As long as we are on the topic of BMs, I feel they will get SIM treatment when their time comes, with 6-9 being downtown variants of the 1-4 and the 1-4 becoming peak Express bypassing downtown with C variants running via downtown. 

Personally, if Brooklyn were to get the SIM treatment (that means X becomes BM and they follow the same routes as the SIM's in Manhattan), I could see the following:

X27/X37 becomes BM7/17/27

X28/X38 becomes BM8/18/28

Downtown via Church becomes BMx

23rd (or 14th) via 6th Av becomes BM1x

Midtown becomes BM2x

off peak everything is BMxC

In this case the BM1-4 would have BM21-24 for service to Midtown. the BM5 would become the BM25.

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1 minute ago, Around the Horn said:

Personally, if Brooklyn were to get the SIM treatment (that means X becomes BM and they follow the same routes as the SIM's in Manhattan), I could see the following:

X27/X37 becomes BM7/17/27

X28/X38 becomes BM8/18/28

Downtown via Church becomes BMx

23rd (or 14th) via 6th Av becomes BM1x

Midtown becomes BM2x

off peak everything is BMxC

In this case the BM1-4 would have BM21-24 for service to Midtown. the BM5 would become the BM25.

Which more than likely they will. I could see this happening.

Off Peak: BMc

Also, there needs to be West Side (Peak) service - 11/12th Avenue service to 57th/59th Streets.  

 

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