R68OnBroadway Posted September 23, 2018 Share #26 Posted September 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, P3F said: Avenue H isn't continuous at the Brighton line. Are they planning to dig a tunnel under the subway? No- I doubt they would. They do have a ped tunnel though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted September 23, 2018 Share #27 Posted September 23, 2018 3 hours ago, trife86 said: St George ferry holding lights are used almost everyday on rush hour... It is? I saw the lights but it stayed on red for the whole hour I was there. So I assume its not used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted September 23, 2018 Share #28 Posted September 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said: No- I doubt they would. They do have a ped tunnel though. It does however shows how much research they put into the Brooklyn Bus design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share #29 Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, P3F said: Avenue H isn't continuous at the Brighton line. Are they planning to dig a tunnel under the subway? LMAOOOOOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted September 23, 2018 Share #30 Posted September 23, 2018 2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said: Nah. Not much between FIDI and 23 St. Routes more run via 6 Av/Broadway (in terms of Staten island) is for coverage reasons. I imagine it would be the same for the BMs and X27/28/37/38. I mean by all means, nothing is stopping Byford from moving the BMs to this route, but I don't see why it would be needed for anything other than the Xs. They do a fine job there alone. Keep Manhattan service the way it is off-peak. Also to add that unlike Staten Island, Brooklyn has plenty of subway service, further reducing the need for the BMs on 6/Broadway. The area between Finanical District and 23rd is very trendy in terms of nightlife and such, or so I heard. 14th Street union square is top 10 in ridership, I'm sure that's off turnstiles count alone as I don't think they count transfers in ridership stats. People could use the BM for a day/night on the town if they used the local streets up to 57th. The area between Canal and 23rd is a bigger draw than south of Canal in 2018, espically on Saturdays. could really boost Saturday ridership on the BM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted September 23, 2018 Share #31 Posted September 23, 2018 On 9/21/2018 at 7:03 PM, Future ENY OP said: I think that station got ADA complaint in 2015. You still need the 39 if and when the shuts down in Williamsburg and Lower Manhattan. But can't you run shuttle buses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 23, 2018 Share #32 Posted September 23, 2018 Whoever these "pedestrians" are doing this "observing", are blind as bats - and the fact that it took these winners 6 months to compile this simplistic a plan that completely fails to consider riders' habits borough-wide, is an utter embarrassment in & of itself... I agree with most of the replies in the comments section of the blog, particularly "JFA".... Alon Levy's (who some herald as this guru of sorts) counter-arguments within, comes off to me as weak; Network shape (honestly now...) ? Merging of weak routes ? (I mean, Come on, look at Marine Park - apparently they don't deserve bus service that doesn't lie on the outskirts of the damn neighborhood... Also, I'm quite sure Brooklyn CB6 will just adore that gap in bus service binding 5th av/9th st/Columbia st/Atlantic av).... Sacrificing coverage for reliability (or should I say "reliability"), is what the betting community would call a sucker bet - One where however much is at stake, is significantly more than your winnings.... I can guarantee that this plan will result in ridership losses far worse than however much the MTA is experiencing with the way it's tinkering with the current routes in the current network here in Brooklyn..... The network type isn't the problem here.... The lot of these transportation planners (and other so-called enthusiasts of transit) love to run to the almighty grid (and I say those last two words sarcastically) because it's the easiest to draw up & requires little knowledge of patrons/commuters' from each neighborhood/localized area's needs (generally speaking).... Trying to "grid" the Brooklyn bus network to death (by limiting options on top of it), with the aim of trying to force even MORE people to the subway, simply will not have that desired effect... Honestly, I'm pretty sick & tired of the treating of buses as this pipeline to the subway..... The ideology of a singular bus, or a bus-bus commute becomes more ignored as time progresses, I swear.... The subways have become increasingly problematic over the course of this decade & this idea that you're going to have MORE people doing MORE walking to catch a bus route, to THEN have to put up with the CURRENT problems of the subway, is devoid of reality & borders on fanatical.... I'd even go as far as to say loony..... Never mind having as many people doing all this walking to get to (less) bus stops along whatever route, to begin with..... There's stop consolidation (within reason) - and Then there's leaving all of Brooklyn that encompasses 60+ sq. miles of land mass, being 1/5th of a city that is as heavily populated, that is as heavily reliant on surface transportation as it is, with a grand total of 531 bus stops over 37 routes (The Bronx, for comparison's sake, which encompasses about 40 sq. miles [IIRC; but I know it's less than Brooklyn] would still have more routes)... Absurdity in every sense of the word..... YGTBKM with this plan. This reeks of a very ambitious LRT network & not one comprised of/for a local bus network..... That's what I believe is being lost in this SBS service type-like craze... Local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted September 23, 2018 Share #33 Posted September 23, 2018 The blog is very good for high-level discussions of things like the exorbitant construction costs, and very high-level discussions of network planning. Because of its super wonky, math-oriented academic focus, it is absolutely shit for talking about anything super local. This is a very different approach than the Jarrett Walker approach, which starts with community consultation by asking what the community wants from a bus network and then designing around that. So I can't support this proposal, since it ignores community values like Going to schools, hospitals, basically anything that isn't the subway Wheelchair accessibility on the subway Making the most trips possible within two seats Could the bus network be redone in a good way? Sure. But this is not how you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 24, 2018 Share #34 Posted September 24, 2018 10 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: The blog is very good for high-level discussions of things like the exorbitant construction costs, and very high-level discussions of network planning. Because of its super wonky, math-oriented academic focus, it is absolutely shit for talking about anything super local. This is a very different approach than the Jarrett Walker approach, which starts with community consultation by asking what the community wants from a bus network and then designing around that. So I can't support this proposal, since it ignores community values like Going to schools, hospitals, basically anything that isn't the subway Wheelchair accessibility on the subway Making the most trips possible within two seats Could the bus network be redone in a good way? Sure. But this is not how you do it. Yeah, CheckmateChamp pointed that out on the blog (Coney Island patrons losing direct access to CIH).... Part of Levy's retort to it was to bring up some (phantom) person telling him something along the lines of CIH not being thaaaaat important.... Of course CIH wouldn't be quote-unquote thaaat important, because (unlike Woodhull) it isn't proximate to the subway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted October 2, 2018 Share #35 Posted October 2, 2018 Clearly whoever came up with this has no clue as to what's really going on. Not one item mentioned above sounds like a good idea to me. Most all of them actually sound ludicrous and downright stupid. In a day and age when we need better service, they are talking about making all types of cuts. How in the hell is this helping anything? It really annoys me when people put entire plans together and don't know what they are talking about. It's clear these people don't ride the bus or anything in any type of frequent capacity. It's just impossible to do so then come up with some of these asinine plans. The Fulton line can be one of the most unpredictable and unreliable in the city. So let's cut the bus service above it?? Cut the B41 at Parkside?? That's the biggest joke of this whole wack ass proposal. So if I wanna go downtown I have to be forced of the bus to take the Q to Dekalb, or an IRT line at Atlantic in order to get to Borough Hall??? I'm not even going to get on the rest of it after this last point. Avenue H???? Like really??? First off the street is crazy narrow in addition the factors mentioned above. We gonna dig under the train? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 3, 2018 Share #36 Posted October 3, 2018 They don't seem to get it; the ignorance continues to glare there.... Apparently, there's a version 1.2 of this redesign, which "differs from v1.1 in just two ways." (Oh. there are a HELL of a lot more problems with this plan than just two... But let them tell it: ) Quote "....First, it was pointed out to me that we made a mistake in the map: the route we proposed for the B6 to take across the structure of the Brighton Line of the subway, at Avenue H, was not in fact a street crossing. At Avenue H the structure goes from trenched to the north to elevated in the south, and as a result the street does not go through. We fixed this error by restoring the present-day route, and also slightly changing the route of the B11 to follow what must be a high-quality bus lane. And second, months ago, in arguments with former MTA planner Allan Rosen (who comments on blogs by the name BrooklynBus and has his own proposed redesign), there came the question of the route of the B9. Allan was supportive of the idea of running the B9 on Veterans Avenue, taking over what is now a B41 branch, rather than going to Kings Plaza as it does today, legacy of an era when Kings Plaza was a more important shopping destination. I also asked about straightening the route, which currently goes on a combination of Avenues L and M; Avenue M provides a straighter route connecting to the important destinations (the eastern end of the route, and the main drag in Midwood at Avenue M). Allan explained that no, a reroute to Avenue M is not feasible, as east of the heart of Midwood it’s a narrower residential street, forcing the bus to use the wider Avenue L. The only reason the straighter Avenue M route appeared on v1.0 and v1.1 is that I forgot to change it; after we went public with the map, he reminded us. There are some associated changes to the stop spacing to accommodate the new routes (or, rather, the retention of old routes that we were wrong to try to change before), but overall there is practically no impact on overall trip times. The B9 is a few hundred meters longer than in v1.0 and v1.1, but the cost in on the order of 20 service-hours per weekday, which by itself is a lot lower than my uncertainty in the underlying numbers (which is about 100 hours)." It gets even better... smh.... ...and after having read this next quote below (which further illustrates their overall absent-minded mindsets) I'm done with this foolish ass proposal... Peep this asininity: Quote "There are some potential combinations of Brooklyn and Queens bus routes, most obviously on (Myrtle) Avenue, which hosts the B54 and Q55. The B12 could even be combined with the Q56 and Q24 as branches. The Q58, an extremely strong circumferential, could be combined with the B38, the busiest Brooklyn route near its terminus. The problem is that the break points today tend to be very close to bus depots, and often they’re major destinations in their own right, such as the subway connection point at Broadway Junction or at Myrtle/Wyckhoff." Oh, Imagine that - Such detrimental obstacles those are, thwarting the (unwarranted) merging of those routes in question ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted October 3, 2018 Share #37 Posted October 3, 2018 Have you guys written to them about it?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 3, 2018 Share #38 Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, GojiMet86 said: Have you guys written to them about it?... No, I haven't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted October 3, 2018 Share #39 Posted October 3, 2018 1 hour ago, GojiMet86 said: Have you guys written to them about it?... No need. I'm going to have a sit-down with Mr. Byford soon. I'm going to start a Brooklyn redesign thread tomorrow as well. I have yet to see one thing in that proposal that makes logical sense, and I will be damned if any of it is implemented. I will be personally reviewing every proposal going into the MTA and will address each aspect of them. I have more than 10 years experience in and I ride these buses, and evaluate these lines every day. I'm not some "pedestrian" looking at what I think needs to be done. It's high time the MTA change its culture and stop putting people in charge of planning when they don't have to rely on the system. These people that are not on the front lines frankly have no business having an opinion and it stops this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted October 7, 2018 Share #40 Posted October 7, 2018 On 10/2/2018 at 9:01 PM, GojiMet86 said: Have you guys written to them about it?... Where would you address it to ? From what I've skimmed through I'd send my responses to Fantasy Island and the Twilight Zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 7, 2018 Share #41 Posted October 7, 2018 48 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said: Where would you address it to ? From what I've skimmed through I'd send my responses to Fantasy Island and the Twilight Zone. The better question is, why would I want to...... Resistance isn't the only thing that's futile ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Rider Posted October 7, 2018 Share #42 Posted October 7, 2018 I have written a lot of posts on changing the culture not only here but where I used to work and it seems that the various departments in every agency seem to act like they are immune from criticism, so therefore they do not care about what the users think about the service that they are providing. I saw the article in one of the free papers and the first thing that came to mind was quite frankly another bunch of geniuses from one of these "prestigious universities" or one of the favored think (stink) tanks" who know nothing about transit history or about the area who are looking at a map are telling the riders we can do this and this without first running it past the various constituencies that are the ones that will make it work. It is though they know everything and we know nothing while the opposite is most likely true We are now living in a bureaucratic society which is totally anathema to what our founding fathers helped develop about 220 years ago. Our founding fathers realized that for a society to work, it needed to listen and follow the will of the people. Unfortunately our elected leaders who were sworn to uphold what our founding fathers set up for this country are under the misguided impression that the bureaucratic model is superior to anything that we had previously. What about Woodrow Wilson and his worship of the German bureaucracy and the superiority of the bureaucrats in determining what is right is one of the many examples of why agencies rule the citizens and are out of touch with the people that use the service.. Once in a while there will be one politician or one executive in a position of power that will make a difference and make the changes necessary for the department or agency to be more responsive to the public, but the sad part is as soon as he/she leaves, it is back to business as usual. It is not going to get any better as our elected leaders for the most part are loyal to the bureaucrats and could not care less about the ones that vote on whether they should get elected (or re-elected) except when it comes to election day. These individuals have gone to the same schools where they were (and are) taught more about the greatness of the bureaucratic model when they should be taught about what our founding fathers dreams and aspirations were for our country. Until we change the political culture where a rule is needed for everything and the public is incapable of doing anything without being ruled by someone who is superior to them is changed, it will only get worse. That's my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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