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TransitJusticeForAll

86th Street, CPW-Manhattan, NY Subway Station Tour

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86th Street (IND Eighth Avenue Line) is back in full operation after being closed for 6 months for renovation as part of the Enhanced Station Initiative (ESI) program. The station reopened yesterday . It features new entrances with LED info screen, ceramic artwork “Parkside Portals” by Joyce Kozloff, and new gateway entrances. The station is located in the neighborhood of the Upper West Side of Manhattan on Central Park West. Even though this station does not have any USB ports, this station is a whole lot better than 72nd Street. Lastly, this tour can’t be complete without some subway action. Please enjoy the station tour on the 114th anniversary of the New York City Subway.

 

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They really haven't done any tilework at any of the ESI rehabs. They only did those accents at the 4th Avenue stations and that's it. Besides, the tiles here don't look too bad. I'm more concerned with the apparent leaks in the corners along both platforms and the peeling paint trackside.

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1 hour ago, Lance said:

They really haven't done any tilework at any of the ESI rehabs. They only did those accents at the 4th Avenue stations and that's it. Besides, the tiles here don't look too bad. I'm more concerned with the apparent leaks in the corners along both platforms and the peeling paint trackside.

Uhh... That’s precisely my point. Everything “looks” fine until you get behind those walls. You’re talking to someone who has been on quite a few construction sites where all hell broke loose once we opened up the walls. Get some water at these stations and all of the work will be ruined. Given the wear and tear that these stations deal with and them being underground, I would’ve thought they would’ve made that a priority.

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On 10/28/2018 at 3:57 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Uhh... That’s precisely my point. Everything “looks” fine until you get behind those walls. You’re talking to someone who has been on quite a few construction sites where all hell broke loose once we opened up the walls. Get some water at these stations and all of the work will be ruined. Given the wear and tear that these stations deal with and them being underground, I would’ve thought they would’ve made that a priority.

OK, so, now that you mention the tiles not being redone, what justifies these stations being closed for so long? It doesn't look like much was done. But, I can say that I remember the walls being stripped as I was passing by on the lower level during reconstruction, because this station didn't get the blue walls that most ESI's get, so why does it look so bad...? lol

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6 minutes ago, m7zanr160s said:

OK, so, now that you mention the tiles not being redone, what justifies these stations being closed for so long? It doesn't look like much was done. But, I can say that I remember the walls being stripped as I was passing by on the lower level during reconstruction, because this station didn't get the blue walls that most ESI's get, so why does it look so bad...? lol

Good question. From what I can see, they’ve re-done some staircases and parts of the entrances. No way should that take six months. The platforms were also re-done, but I doubt from scratch given the way they look. I suspect they partially re-did the concrete, and obviously scrapped down the columns. If you’re working on that regularly, I don’t see why that takes six months. I don’t see any structural work done really.  We can add the extra lighting, so maybe they spent time with the electrical I suppose. I think their goal was, get in there make some cosmetic repairs and get out without spending too much money. I assume they also scraped down the ceilings given how they look. Again all cosmetic though. Nothing structural from want I can see. I just wonder how many guys they had on this job.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Good question. From what I can see, they’ve re-done some staircases and parts of the entrances. No way should that take six months. The platforms were also re-done, but I doubt from scratch given the way they look. I suspect they partially re-did the concrete, and obviously scrapped down the columns. If you’re working on that regularly, I don’t see why that takes six months. I don’t see any structural work done really.  We can add the extra lighting, so maybe they spent time with the electrical I suppose. I think their goal was, get in there make some cosmetic repairs and get out without spending too much money.

Sad... The Fourth Avenue redos look six months worthy, 72 and 86 do not. At least clean the tiles and grout! 😕 😑

Edited by m7zanr160s

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4 minutes ago, m7zanr160s said:

Sad... The Fourth Avenue redos look six months worthy, 72 and 86 do not. 😑

I agree. The work was very shoddy. I used to work in the office but with the Insurance side and I’ve also worked as a Project Manager. I’ve been on my fair share of construction sites to meet for projects and have seen good work. 72nd and 86th look tacky. It’s also alarming to have so many project managers on these jobs overseeing them supposedly and they finish looking like this.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I agree. The work was very shoddy. I used to work in the office but with the Insurance side and I’ve also worked as a Project Manager. I’ve been on my fair share of construction sites to meet for projects and have seen good work. 72nd and 86th look tacky. It’s also alarming to have so many project managers on these jobs overseeing them supposedly and they finish looking like this.

Isn't the MTA's problem "too many cooks"? At least I remember one of the many audits saying that.

IIRC, this was about the time they announced that they overran all the budget for ESI and ran out of money. So that's probably why the later ones look so bad, because the de Blasio board members were like, "Wait a second, how much money do you need for this?"

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1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Isn't the MTA's problem "too many cooks"? At least I remember one of the many audits saying that.

IIRC, this was about the time they announced that they overran all the budget for ESI and ran out of money. So that's probably why the later ones look so bad, because the de Blasio board members were like, "Wait a second, how much money do you need for this?"

Yeah it was Polly Trottenberg in fact that was at a board meeting bitching about how we can’t spend so much money on so few stations, etc.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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5 hours ago, m7zanr160s said:

Sad... The Fourth Avenue redos look six months worthy, 72 and 86 do not. At least clean the tiles and grout! 😕 😑

I'd add 110th to the list of unworthy ones (I don't think it needed to be rebuilt in the first place) but I will say that I do think that 163rd looks much better with the renovations.

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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah it was Polly Trottenberg in fact that was at a board meeting bitching about how we can’t spend so much money on so few stations, etc.

I mean, she was right. That was never going to scale up to all 472 stations. And the sad part was the stations they picked weren't all that complicated, so this would've been the cheaper ones to do.

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1 minute ago, bobtehpanda said:

I mean, she was right. That was never going to scale up to all 472 stations. And the sad part was the stations they picked weren't all that complicated, so this would've been the cheaper ones to do.

True, but they’ve done a half @ssed job to say the least.

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2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

True, but they’ve done a half @ssed job to say the least.

Exactly. Imagine how much money it would've taken the MTA to do a real job.

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Honestly, with the ESI at the very least, I feel they should've worked on ensuring the structural stability and upkeep of decrepit stations were in check. I don't see that much of that improvement at any of these renovated designs (including 86th St.). Call me bland, but I care less about what this plan was meant to have, USB ports, fancy displays and art, glass all over the place, etc... While that doesn't cost a lot, It seems like a fad to me that is only there to whitewash any actual progress made on behalf of the agency. This money could've gone towards improving the structure and safety (lighting also if necessary) of potentially fewer stations in bigger need of an upgrade. Even if that idea still didn't meet it's deadlines and also ran out of money quickly, at least some much needed repairs will still be made quicker, and for good reason in the right direction. This idea only works though a good consistency of design and when you compromise it on many of these CPW stations, the results are very worrisome.  

Edited by NoHacksJustKhaks

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3 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Honestly, with the ESI at the very least, I feel they should've worked on ensuring the structural stability and upkeep of decrepit stations were in check. I don't see that much of that improvement at any of these renovated designs (including 86th St.). Call me bland, but I care less about what this plan was meant to have, USB ports, fancy displays and art, glass all over the place, etc... While that doesn't cost a lot, It seems like a fad to me that is only there to whitewash any actual progress made on behalf of the agency. This money could've gone towards improving the structure and safety (lighting also if necessary) of potentially fewer stations in bigger need of an upgrade. Even if that idea still didn't meet it's deadlines and also ran out of money quickly, at least some much needed repairs will still be made quicker, and for good reason in the right direction. This idea only works though a good consistency of design and when you compromise it on many of these CPW stations, the results are very worrisome.  

These stations actually all improve lighting. That’s basically incorporated in all station rehabs the (MTA) does.

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To be fair, on the Astoria stations especially, contractors encountered structural conditions that were far worse than what they'd expected. I remember someone saying that they had to replace the entire steel substructure on those. That alone accounted for a lot of the overrun -- though I do not defend the agency's general practices here. 

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1 hour ago, RR503 said:

To be fair, on the Astoria stations especially, contractors encountered structural conditions that were far worse than what they'd expected. I remember someone saying that they had to replace the entire steel substructure on those. That alone accounted for a lot of the overrun -- though I do not defend the agency's general practices here. 

I remember using 39th Av back in April- chipped paint, plywood over platforms, rusted stairs and roofs, it looked like it was going to fall apart. However, when they closed the Manhattan bound platforms for a GO under station maintenance, there was nobody on the platform or tracks and yet trains were flagged.

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The Astoria project was absolutely needed, and was of a scope which actually justified shutting down the stations. 

I can't say that for any of the other ESI projects. There are so many other things that the money could have been better spent on. 

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