Bee Line Advocacy Group

[Lawrence St]

21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

...which to me is further evidenced by just how many people disembark northbound buses around Getty Sq.

I guarantee if the 1 was a route that was branched to run to either [Tarrytown, WMC, or White Plains] from Yonkers, each branch would not have the service levels that they currently do.

That's the reason they started short turning W1 buses at Getty Square, because the core ridership is between 242nd St and Getty Square.

The W2 does better with ridership north of Getty Square, and dont get me started on W3...that bus can go from stand room only to 4 or 5 passengers at Getty Square.

[NY1635]

I get the impression that Bee Line really wants to update their routes to 21st Century, but are simply too afraid to make changes.

I give the 1 credit for going all the way up to Tarrytown and White Plains from the Bronx. I've been to Tarrytown and there's nothing really special about it. They're just capitalizing on the Sleepy Hollow legend up there. 

My issue with the 1 in general is that it's too much of a workhorse for Westchester. IMO, it's been this way ever since they started messing with the BxM4C.

[Lawrence St]

9 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

I get the impression that Bee Line really wants to update their routes to 21st Century, but are simply too afraid to make changes.

I give the 1 credit for going all the way up to Tarrytown and White Plains from the Bronx. I've been to Tarrytown and there's nothing really special about it. They're just capitalizing on the Sleepy Hollow legend up there. 

My issue with the 1 in general is that it's too much of a workhorse for Westchester. IMO, it's been this way ever since they started messing with the BxM4C.

In my opinion, there shouldn't even be a 1T variant. It should be merged with the 1W so that it operates via Tarrytown.

And dont get me started on the BxM4C.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

That's the reason they started short turning W1 buses at Getty Square, because the core ridership is between 242nd St and Getty Square.

The W2 does better with ridership north of Getty Square, and dont get me started on W3...that bus can go from stand room only to 4 or 5 passengers at Getty Square.

Yup....

The crux of the problem I even have with the BL-1 is not only the branching, but the fact that more (collective) service is supplied to the Warburton corridor, over other parts of Yonkers.....

3 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

I get the impression that Bee Line really wants to update their routes to 21st Century, but are simply too afraid to make changes.

I give the 1 credit for going all the way up to Tarrytown and White Plains from the Bronx. I've been to Tarrytown and there's nothing really special about it. They're just capitalizing on the Sleepy Hollow legend up there. 

My issue with the 1 in general is that it's too much of a workhorse for Westchester. IMO, it's been this way ever since they started messing with the BxM4C.

As opposed to NICE bus, that has this tendency to make whimsical changes? That's not really the right way to go about it either.

I think Tarrytown is overrated also, but as the point relates to the BL-1, there's a stark difference between being wasteful & being a workhorse.... The BL-1 is not a workhorse; the distance the branches travel & the amt. of service supplied to them, are not commensurate with the amount of usage it gets.....

Now the BL-7, that's a workhorse.

[B35 via Church]

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

In my opinion, there shouldn't even be a 1T variant. It should be merged with the 1W so that it operates via Tarrytown.....

I don't think the BL-1W should exist.... There's one (well 2) main reasons that people are more willing to make their way to the BL-20 to get to White Plains over the BL-1W & they should be pretty obvious - Frequency & Efficiency.... The BL-20 has its problems, but how direct the route is, is most certainly not one of 'em..... The BL-3 should be complementary to the BL-6 from White Plains on down - and on top of it, have its operating span increased to that of running during off peak hours as well....

Combining the BL-1W with the BL-1T would exacerbate matters IMO.... Before Hudson Link came about, some TzX trips used to do that shit (White Plains via Tarrytown) & even that operation was eventually lifted...... Nobody emanating from The Bronx or Yonkers seeking White Plains wants to get stuck sitting in standstill traffic in Downtown pseudo-Mamaroneck Tarrytown...

Regardless, Bee-Line needs to evaluate the routes that comprises the serving of [242nd ] / [Getty Sq.] part of the overall bus network in Westchester & to be honest, I don't think it's much that they'd have to fix to make things better....

[Lawrence St]

30 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't think the BL-1W should exist.... There's one (well 2) main reasons that people are more willing to make their way to the BL-20 to get to White Plains over the BL-1W & they should be pretty obvious - Frequency & Efficiency.... The BL-20 has its problems, but how direct the route is, is most certainly not one of 'em..... The BL-3 should be complementary to the BL-6 from White Plains on down - and on top of it, have its operating span increased to that of running during off peak hours as well....

Combining the BL-1W with the BL-1T would exacerbate matters IMO.... Before Hudson Link came about, some TzX trips used to do that shit (White Plains via Tarrytown) & even that operation was eventually lifted...... Nobody emanating from The Bronx or Yonkers seeking White Plains wants to get stuck sitting in standstill traffic in Downtown pseudo-Mamaroneck Tarrytown...

Regardless, Bee-Line needs to evaluate the routes that comprises the serving of [242nd ] / [Getty Sq.] part of the overall bus network in Westchester & to be honest, I don't think it's much that they'd have to fix to make things better....

Also on the topic, we need to discuss what is with the random assigning of artics in the whole system. A W4 bus at the height of rush hour should not be using a NABI40LFW while an artic is being used on Route W3 with a ridership of 22 people.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Lawrence St

[B35 via Church]

7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Also on the topic, we need to discuss what is with the random assigning of artics in the whole system. A W4 bus at the height of rush hour should not be using a NABI40LFW while an artic is being used on Route W3 with a ridership of 22 people.

The usage of artics is where the MTA & Bee Line are on completely opposite spectrums of.... Putting aside the nefarious using of artics to cut service for a second, artics are still reserved for very high ridership routes here in the city.... Whereas there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to how 40'-ers & as 60'-ers are dispersed throughout the county.... I would like to think that interlining plays a part in this (as if to say, it would be an immense waste of non-revenue mileage to have so many artics DH-ing back to the garage just for a shift in fleet, when artics could just remain on the road during off-peak hours & then go on from there), but I don't even know anymore....

This is something I haven't really paid much of any attention to (outside of what happens at 242nd )... What Bee-Line routes typically interline anyway?

[Lawrence St]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The usage of artics is where the MTA & Bee Line are on completely opposite spectrums of.... Putting aside the nefarious using of artics to cut service for a second, artics are still reserved for very high ridership routes here in the city.... Whereas there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to how 40'-ers & as 60'-ers are dispersed throughout the county.... I would like to think that interlining plays a part in this (as if to say, it would be an immense waste of non-revenue mileage to have so many artics DH-ing back to the garage just for a shift in fleet, when artics could just remain on the road during off-peak hours & then go on from there), but I don't even know anymore....

This is something I haven't really paid much of any attention to (outside of what happens at 242nd )... What Bee-Line routes typically interline anyway?

Lmao, like ALL OF THEM. In the northern part of Westchester it dosent happen as often, but in southern westchester...dear god.

One trip could go from a 1W...to a 20...to a 4...to a 20 to Yonkers Av...to a 7...to a 30...

[B35 via Church]

31 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Lmao, like ALL OF THEM. In the northern part of Westchester it dosent happen as often, but in southern westchester...dear god.

One trip could go from a 1W...to a 20...to a 4...to a 20 to Yonkers Av...to a 7...to a 30...

Well hell, that's why you have artics on whatever route during whatever time of the day

Simultaneously having a 40'-er on a BL-60 during some point of the mid-day when there's an artic doing a trip on the BL-2 for example, I agree isn't the most efficient use of resources.... I hate to even say this, but if artics are going to be used so willy-nilly like that, to me it's indicative that they really don't/didn't need as many total artics as they currently have.....

[Lex]

In all honesty, the only route I've seen using artics with any real consistency is the 20 (I can't speak for the 40, and I'm deliberately ignoring the 20's Yonkers Avenue short runs).

[B35 via Church]

22 minutes ago, Lex said:

In all honesty, the only route I've seen using artics with any real consistency is the 20 (I can't speak for the 40, and I'm deliberately ignoring the 20's Yonkers Avenue short runs).

They run 40'-ers on the BL-40, so artics aren't as consistently used on that route as they are the BL-20.... I couldn't tell you the last time I even saw a 40' on the BL-20.

Artics run (somewhat) consistently on the BL-5, which I don't understand....

[TheMoeMan]

Weekdays there is a northbound 20x run to from Bedford Park to White Plains that specifically uses a 40Fter (usually an Orion V). It usually passes the Gun Hill Rd stop around 9am.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It’s comical that this is called Bee Line Advocacy Group. Is there any actual advocacy going on, or just Bee Line talk?

Edited November 13, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[NY1635]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Also on the topic, we need to discuss what is with the random assigning of artics in the whole system. A W4 bus at the height of rush hour should not be using a NABI40LFW while an artic is being used on Route W3 with a ridership of 22 people.

Bee Line Randomly assign articulated buses because their 40 foot buses mainly consist of Orion Vs. 

[Orion6025]

20 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Artics run (somewhat) consistently on the BL-5, which I don't understand....

Idk, one time I was hanging around Getty Square and all the off peak trips were using artics but as soon as the evening rush happened, all those artics disappeared and the 5 was seemingly 100% 40 footers...

I'd argue the 7 is pretty consistently artics but I'm not local to Westchester so I can't say that with any certainty..

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

Idk, one time I was hanging around Getty Square and all the off peak trips were using artics but as soon as the evening rush happened, all those artics disappeared and the 5 was seemingly 100% 40 footers...

I'd argue the 7 is pretty consistently artics but I'm not local to Westchester so I can't say that with any certainty..

Yep, the BL-5 & the BL-6 is good for that - peak hour 40 footers, but artics running on 'em off-peak.... It's like that on saturdays too, because the last couple times I rode the BL-6 out to the Galleria, they were all artics (I don't bother with the BL-1W anymore).... Matter fact, that's been the M.O. with those 2 routes on the weekends for years..... Most would get off somewhere within Yonkers, and then you would have all that bus with like 10-15 people riding towards Dobbs Ferry, White Plains, etc.... Makes no sense.

The BL-7, yeah, you're right, it is another route that's consistently artic.

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Yep, the BL-5 & the BL-6 is good for that - peak hour 40 footers, but artics running on 'em off-peak.... It's like that on saturdays too, because the last couple times I rode the BL-6 out to the Galleria, they were all artics (I don't bother with the BL-1W anymore).... Matter fact, that's been the M.O. with those 2 routes on the weekends for years..... Most would get off somewhere within Yonkers, and then you would have all that bus with like 10-15 people riding towards Dobbs Ferry, White Plains, etc.... Makes no sense.

The BL-7, yeah, you're right, it is another route that's consistently artic.

Because the W7 normally isnt interlined with other routes.

The W4 is interlined with other non-artic routes, which is why some of the 40 footers appear at the worst times during rush hour.

[Lawrence St]

One if the things that makes me scratch my head, is why the W21 is a reverse-peak direction route. The W20 is one of the longest locals in the entire network, and a lot of people who live along Central Park Av want to get to the or . The W21 instead does the reverse, by going TO White Plains in the AM and FROM Bedford Park in the PM.

[GreatOne2k]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

One if the things that makes me scratch my head, is why the W21 is a reverse-peak direction route. The W20 is one of the longest locals in the entire network, and a lot of people who live along Central Park Av want to get to the or . The W21 instead does the reverse, by going TO White Plains in the AM and FROM Bedford Park in the PM.

Reverse commuters going from The Bronx / Yonkers to White Plains, just like the 41 is reverse commute route with The Bronx / Mt Vernon to White Plains

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

One if the things that makes me scratch my head, is why the W21 is a reverse-peak direction route. The W20 is one of the longest locals in the entire network, and a lot of people who live along Central Park Av want to get to the or . The W21 instead does the reverse, by going TO White Plains in the AM and FROM Bedford Park in the PM.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, because...

1. as worded, that last statement is simply not true, and
2. there are a couple (supplemental) short turn BL-21's running from Yonkers (Fort Hill rd) to Bedford Park in the AM

That last statement of yours should read:

"The W21 instead does the reverse, by going TO White Plains in the AM and TO Bedford Park in the PM."

As for an explanation.... I'd say Bee Line has it right here - There's a higher concentration of people bombarding those NB buses (e.g., from the Bronx) seeking less stops along Central Park av during the AM peak hours..... At the same time, there's a greater need to dedicate more resources to transporting more people from more stops towards the Bronx during that same time period..... That is exactly why they have more 20x's than 21's heading towards the Bronx during the AM peak (I mean let's be honest, much of nobody is trying to get to Cross County from points north (of Cross County) in the AM - hence the 20x designation on all those inbound trips during that time period).....

In other words, you stand to screw more people running more 21's (and less 20x's) during the AM peak towards the Bronx, because there are more people seeking the Bronx, boarding buses at "local" stops along the route as well...... Sure, you could argue that those that do board 20x's in the morning at the same stops the 21 would make, would benefit from having more 21's in operation during that time of the day, but Bee-Line doesn't have it like that to where they can operate BL-21's in both directions concurrently (like how we do most our LTD routes here in the city)....

[Lawrence St]

40 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, because...

1. as worded, that last statement is simply not true, and
2. there are a couple (supplemental) short turn BL-21's running from Yonkers (Fort Hill rd) to Bedford Park in the AM

That last statement of yours should read:

"The W21 instead does the reverse, by going TO White Plains in the AM and TO Bedford Park in the PM."

As for an explanation.... I'd say Bee Line has it right here - There's a higher concentration of people bombarding those NB buses (e.g., from the Bronx) seeking less stops along Central Park av during the AM peak hours..... At the same time, there's a greater need to dedicate more resources to transporting more people from more stops towards the Bronx during that same time period..... That is exactly why they have more 20x's than 21's heading towards the Bronx during the AM peak (I mean let's be honest, much of nobody is trying to get to Cross County from points north (of Cross County) in the AM - hence the 20x designation on all those inbound trips during that time period).....

In other words, you stand to screw more people running more 21's (and less 20x's) during the AM peak towards the Bronx, because there are more people seeking the Bronx, boarding buses at "local" stops along the route as well...... Sure, you could argue that those that do board 20x's in the morning at the same stops the 21 would make, would benefit from having more 21's in operation during that time of the day, but Bee-Line doesn't have it like that to where they can operate BL-21's in both directions concurrently (like how we do most our LTD routes here in the city)....

Wow, you were right, for some reason I didnt notice those reverse W21 trips as I normally always see them heading towards White Plains in the AM.

[GreatOne2k]

Looks like Bee Line is going to change a 41 trip to a 40 trip in the PM and cut it back from 241 St to Mt Vernon, a step backward for Bronx service (and south Mt Vernon). 

 

https://transportation.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Schedules/spr20poster.pdf

[Lawrence St]

On 1/22/2020 at 8:14 PM, GreatOne2k said:

Looks like Bee Line is going to change a 41 trip to a 40 trip in the PM and cut it back from 241 St to Mt Vernon, a step backward for Bronx service (and south Mt Vernon). 

 

https://transportation.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Schedules/spr20poster.pdf

I saw that. There are also "additional" changes to the 1 & 2, but the timetables haven't been updated yet.

I can understand changing the route from a 41 to a 40, but having it end at Mount Vernon makes no sense, since it is technically still rush hour and people are trying to go home. In general, the 40 does not have enough service to/from 241st St during the PM rush...

Sometimes I genuinely wonder where these planners are getting their data from. Ever since the 7 got restored service to Yonkers Railroad Station, they cut back the westbound 25 terminal to Warburton Av & Dock St in order to ease congestion down at the train station, but it still is a mess down there and it gets to the point where buses have to double park. And with every seasonal change they modify the 1 & 2 non-stop along the Broadway Corridor, it really is just confusing.

[Lawrence St]

On 11/12/2019 at 11:10 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It’s comical that this is called Bee Line Advocacy Group. Is there any actual advocacy going on, or just Bee Line talk?

I just saw this message, my bad lol.

I have been in talks with them about a few issues, such as the issues with artics being on routes that dont need them during rush hours, the major rush hour delay on the 4 and 20/21 routes due to DOT's work on Bainbridge Avenue, etc.

The major issue right now is the Bainbridge Avenue closure, which is causing a severe rush hour delay to the 4 and 20/21 routes. I've tried to get news stations to do a piece on it, but they never answer back unfortunately.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I just saw this message, my bad lol.

I have been in talks with them about a few issues, such as the issues with artics being on routes that dont need them during rush hours, the major rush hour delay on the 4 and 20/21 routes due to DOT's work on Bainbridge Avenue, etc.

The major issue right now is the Bainbridge Avenue closure, which is causing a severe rush hour delay to the 4 and 20/21 routes. I've tried to get news stations to do a piece on it, but they never answer back unfortunately.

Yeah you first need to have a group going. Media will come eventually. You have to know when to pick and choose media attention. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8