More major express bus changes coming: New routes and stops, extended service

[SIMplicity]

31 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

The biggest improvements I see for this is the new SIM11 more coverage on Hylan which is needed and the SIM33c.  (  needs to stop using abbreviations for these off peak routes). Personally, I think that 33c should of been named SIM36. The main issue that is NOT being addressed is the crowds at The World Financial Center.  There needs to be a new line specifically for the WFC. Those crowds are nasty between the hours of 3:00PM-6:00PM. There should be no reason that 400+ people are waiting in long lines for buses to go back to Staten Island. (AND IT IS DIRECT ACCESS TO THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL)

 

Agree, the abbreviations are a mess lol.

I ride the SIM7/9 from Union Square sometimes and the buses reach the WFC almost empty, then at WFC tons of people get on but the buses don't fill up completely. Not sure if it gets worse later in the rush hour, or if I've just gotten lucky, but it seems to me the SIM9 has solved the problem.

25 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

3. No. The whole point of the re-design is to have quicker service, not a tour of Staten Island.

Right, but now they're taking away the amazingly-quicker service and leaving no service at all. (I understand that their hands are tied and they have to cut it, but it's their fault for not advertising it and for haphazardly deciding to run it off-peak to downtown at the last minute.)

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We didn’t get everything we wanted, and as I told the people I’m working with, no way in hell would the  give everything back. I know one thing. They had better start filling these damn trips because if not I will be speaking at every board meeting and putting several folks on the spot WITH media coverage too. Wouldn’t be a good look for the  . I am also still going to be meeting with the Comptroller’s Office later this month to discuss having them audited to see just how much they’re letting things slip. This missing trip BS is insane and they’re not going to keep pretending they are filling trips on the schedule when we continuously see gaps of 40 minutes or more. There are definitely some games being played and I’m going to get to the bottom of it.

All these route changes will help, but the real problem is reliability. With new frequent consolidated routes it's worse. For instance the SIM10 is so frequent and busy that one little hold up causes overcrowding. Once I was on the SIM10 on a Friday around 7pm. The bus left 5 minutes late and the traffic on 5th was so bad (cars turning right don't pull into the right-most bus lane!) that we reached 23rd St 20 minutes behind schedule with no available seats. The dispatcher or whoever is in charge should have seen that there were two SIM10s DIRECTLY behind us and told my driver to skip the stops on 23rd. Instead the driver stopped and let people on without telling them the bus was full, so they had to stand. Same story at 2nd Ave. I told the standees that there were two probably-undercrowded or near-empty buses right behind us, and the driver let them off at 1st to switch. Someone needs to monitor situations like this and tell drivers to skip certain stops or sections of the route to catch up on time and avoid having people stand unnecessarily. The driver had no idea there were two buses right behind him.

Also, drivers should have to answer for leaving the terminal late - they should have to give a reason. For instance the traffic was bad and they didn't reach the start point in time. It's not the driver's fault, but this information is useful and can be used to try to reduce the number of trips that leave late. Maybe the drivers need more time to get into Manhattan. Also this could reduce the number of trips where the driver sits at the terminus for a few minutes and leaves late. I've seen this a lot.

And not many drivers follow the schedule time points. With the SIM25 in the AM the buses consistently reach Woodrow Road (a time point) 4 minutes early, then keep going without waiting. (This week my driver got called out for it on the radio and he was annoyed - "I can't stop any more than I'm stopping!") But occasionally a driver will intentionally leave Tottenville 4 minutes late to avoid being early at Woodrow. Then this bus gets overcrowded. The problem here is both poor scheduling and drivers' failure to stick to the schedules.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

Agree, the abbreviations are a mess lol.

1. I ride the SIM7/9 from Union Square sometimes and the buses reach the WFC almost empty, then at WFC tons of people get on but the buses don't fill up completely. Not sure if it gets worse later in the rush hour, or if I've just gotten lucky, but it seems to me the SIM9 has solved the problem.

2. Right, but now they're taking away the amazingly-quicker service and leaving no service at all. (I understand that their hands are tied and they have to cut it, but it's their fault for not advertising it and for haphazardly deciding to run it off-peak to downtown at the last minute.)

3. All these route changes will help, but the real problem is reliability. With new frequent consolidated routes it's worse. For instance the SIM10 is so frequent and busy that one little hold up causes overcrowding. Once I was on the SIM10 on a Friday around 7pm. The bus left 5 minutes late and the traffic on 5th was so bad (cars turning right don't pull into the right-most bus lane!) that we reached 23rd St 20 minutes behind schedule with no available seats. The dispatcher or whoever is in charge should have seen that there were two SIM10s DIRECTLY behind us and told my driver to skip the stops on 23rd. Instead the driver stopped and let people on without telling them the bus was full, so they had to stand. Same story at 2nd Ave. I told the standees that there were two probably-undercrowded or near-empty buses right behind us, and the driver let them off at 1st to switch. Someone needs to monitor situations like this and tell drivers to skip certain stops or sections of the route to catch up on time and avoid having people stand unnecessarily. The driver had no idea there were two buses right behind him.

Also, drivers should have to answer for leaving the terminal late - they should have to give a reason. For instance the traffic was bad and they didn't reach the start point in time. It's not the driver's fault, but this information is useful and can be used to try to reduce the number of trips that leave late. Maybe the drivers need more time to get into Manhattan. Also this could reduce the number of trips where the driver sits at the terminus for a few minutes and leaves late. I've seen this a lot.

1. Consider yourself lucky. Yes the SIM9 has definitely helped, but the missing buses and large gaps in service that still remain during the heart of rush hour can still mean SRO buses, which should NOT be happening. I’ve been tracking service at some stops too, and even with dispatchers at the stops it’s still a mess and a lot of BS going on. The dispatchers have their hands tied too because even when they see large gaps in service somewhere, they may be told to direct buses elsewhere, so you still can have a ton of express buses on one route coming non-stop while people are waiting upwards of 40+ minutes for a bus at the same stop. I waited at 57th and Lex a few Thursdays go. SIM8 after SIM8 came while there was no SIM25 or SIM22. I had two passengers going crazy complaining about how that happens every single night leaving them stranded because there aren’t other alternatives where they live, and this is during the heart of rush hour. Absurd.

2. It’s true, but again, it’s either this or the bust the budget wide open, and they simply don’t have the money to run all of that service without it being used. Should’ve been better planned for sure, but this is what you get with horrendous planning.

3. Well supposedly on Staten Island, B/Os are under heavy scrutiny. I’ll believe it when I see it. Sure they are being watched, but there is a culture with regards to management that has existed for years. With the old system, guys ran hot, late, etc. ALL of the time, and now suddenly, that has ALL changed... BS.... Even with all of that going on, some guys are playing games. Hear story after story every day about drivers not letting passengers transfer, slamming the door in their face, driving past stops, etc. It’s insanity, and yet I’m supposed to believe that all of these drivers are on the up and up. Surrrreeee... lol Don’t get me wrong. We have B/Os in my group, and I have spoken with several of them via IM. They agree that this mess is totally effed up and feel bad for the passengers, as they have families too, but as I said, you have good and bad in all groups. I have some specific examples of guys playing games across the system. We busted two QM5 drivers a few weeks ago and reported them, and I have a few others I will be speaking with the  about in my meeting.

[T J Trainman]

Ok, they all need to stop this SIM bullshit its X as an express. And reconfigure what they messed up on. This new SIM crap is utterly atrocious.

[SIMplicity]

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

3. Well supposedly on Staten Island, B/Os are under heavy scrutiny. I’ll believe it when I see it. Sure they are being watched, but there is a culture with regards to management that has existed for years. With the old system, guys ran hot, late, etc. ALL of the time, and now suddenly, that has ALL changed... BS.... Even with all of that going on, some guys are playing games. Hear story after story every day about drivers not letting passengers transfer, slamming the door in their face, driving past stops, etc. It’s insanity, and yet I’m supposed to believe that all of these drivers are on the up and up. Surrrreeee... lol Don’t get me wrong. We have B/Os in my group, and I have spoken with several of them via IM. They agree that this mess is totally effed up and feel bad for the passengers, as they have families too, but as I said, you have good and bad in all groups. I have some specific examples of guys playing games across the system. We busted two QM5 drivers a few weeks ago and reported them, and I have a few others I will be speaking with the  about in my meeting.

How do you report things like that? Whenever I try to report something or give feedback, I wait two weeks then receive an automated reply... IDK how all these changes are supposedly from "rider feedback"...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

25 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

How do you report things like that? Whenever I try to report something or give feedback, I wait two weeks then receive an automated reply... IDK how all these changes are supposedly from "rider feedback"...

I have a direct contact who wants to know, so when I have a problem I let them know. It makes them look good that way, or I could complain about it before the board if I wanted to be a hard @ss... Usually I would just file a regular complaint online for small things, but for some things that are pressing and are negatively impacting service for a lot of people, those things call for immediate action.

They’re from rider feedback because we have social media groups that are now monitored by the  and elected officials. Even my page is monitored. Riders tell each other about the groups and they go there and vent. Same deal with my page. I had almost 500 people join my group in the first month.

[Around the Horn]

6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

The other underlying issue is the far west side service via West Street to 57th and 11th. I feel that service needs to come back. Hopefully the Express Bus Advocacy Group can possibly do some work in regards to possible far west side service. The east side is well focused.

This please!

The crowds on the M57 are nasty now that it has to deal with it's exiting ridership base and ferry people from the far West Side to the express buses. It's utter madness.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

34 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

This please!

The crowds on the M57 are nasty now that it has to deal with it's exiting ridership base and ferry people from the far West Side to the express buses. It's utter madness.

 

6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

The other underlying issue is the far west side service via West Street to 57th and 11th. I feel that service needs to come back. Hopefully the Express Bus Advocacy Group can possibly do some work in regards to possible far west side service. The east side is well focused.

I’ll have to give this one some thought. I’m not a big fan of having these buses go back to the far West Side because the traffic is a mess on 57th and these buses spent too much time in it coming from 11th. However, there is a sizable and growing ridership base from over there that work there and want service. I’ll run it by the planners and see what they think. The compromise at the moment is having those lines terminate at Central Park South and people can transfer from there, or at other points.

[checkmatechamp13]

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The SIM2 off-peak and weekends is no more. In our upcoming meeting, we will be asking the  to assess why the service didn’t work. Just citing “low ridership” isn’t enough. For now those resources will be used elsewhere, but we want an explanation of how service to the South Shore could be restored at a later point. Three months in and you eliminate service. That shows poor planning...

To me, the main thing was that it ended way too early to be considered off-peak service. And one of the major things was that when it first started, there was no late-evening service to Arden Heights. So you had the SIM2 from Downtown until 8:15pm (8:37pm from Battery Place), and the SIM8 from Midtown until 9pm (9:23pm from 42nd & 8th, though that driver usually leaves a minute or two early because there's so much excess runtime at that hour), and after that, nothing. Along Arthur Kill Road, you can take the infrequent S74/84, but that does nothing for the people by Woodrow Road (it's a good 20 minute walk).

So when it became clear that the schedule was final (it wasn't just a typo where they omitted the evening service), a lot of people started buying cars and driving to the ETC (even if they could use the SIM2 for the inbound trip). The SIM8 shuttle, and eventually the extended SIM4C trips helped restore that evening coverage, but by that time, much of the damage had been done. 

But yeah, especially on Saturday nights....who wants to go out on a Saturday night (whether it's to socialize or even work at a bar or restaurant) and have to depend on a bus ending at 8:15pm? 

11 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Well, what did they expect with running the SIM2 only to Downtown? That route needs to go to Midtown as well during the off-peak period. People are just not going to get off in Downtown and take the train. 

Oh yeah? Tell that to all the people who took the X21/22/23/24 to Midtown and backtracked on the subway to Downtown? (Heck, go up to a line of people waiting for a bus on 42nd Street and ask them where they're coming from. You'd be surprised at the answers you get. And yes, I have asked, especially if the passenger is an attractive woman any way is a good way to start a conversation ). Those people are still taking the SIM22/23/24/25/26 to/from Midtown even though they work Downtown or by 23rd Street (and of course, you have people going to/from the Columbus Circle area)

BTW, the SIM23/24 are moving back to 34th Street starting Monday (and apparently it was without MTA approval since they're run by Academy). 

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That was my argument as well. Aside from that, I want to know what sort of marketing was done? They ran the bus at ridiculous times. It’s like there was no thought given to the route. Having trips at 06:00 in the morning going back to Tottenville for who? Who is the route serving on weekends and off-peak? Who is the targeted ridership base? Did they study demographics or rider habits? We both the answer to that. Just ridiculous. Now they’re pulling the plug after not even three months. Service started in mid August and now it’s done. 

The early-morning weekend trips were because they figured the bus is going to have to go back to Tottenville anyway for a second inbound trip anyway, so you might as well have it available for any passengers who may need it (anybody coming off an overnight shift or something). For a similar reason that the SIM4C starts at 6:30am from CPS/6th on the weekends (the X17 started at 6:45am Saturdays and 7:00am Sundays heading outbound). 

11 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Wow look at these changes! How long before it goes back to the original structure with different route names?😂

A new SIM11...basically the old X2, about time, now the SIM6/SIM10 will see some relief.

Honestly I thought the SIM2 would've been a success but I guess not. 

This new SIM33c route. I hope this route can run via West/Vesey St off peak, and run down Houston along with Lexington and Madison. Everything does 5th and 6th off peak, let's get Madison/Lexington or Madison/5th at least in there as well. 

How long is the SIM30 Rosebank branch gonna last? Is it permanent?? I don't see the point of eliminating it but I remember they said its a trial. 

From what I understand, it will run down West Street just to keep it simple (even though all the subway connections are on Church/Broadway), but the Midtown extension will be via 5th/Madison. 

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think the  wants more short routes. A direct Downtown route and a direct Midtown route, not one combined. Most trips on some of the new lines now take about an hour and they’d like to keep it around that where possible, otherwise it becomes too expensive. Rosebank is hard to serve because of the layout and the hills. You can’t make routes so direct there, but something should serve it for sure. We’ll have planners join me at the meeting this week, so we’ll discuss possibilities for sure.

The X18 was a short route, though (and in terms of cost-per-passenger, it performed around average). I mean, Concord-Downtown is about as short as you're going to get for a Staten Island route (except for the X20 which was even shorter, but carried very few people because people made their way to Hylan or Father Capodanno for more frequent service).

9 hours ago, SIMplicity said:

Now the SIM2 is being cut in favor of the SIM33c which overlaps with both the SIM3c and the SIM4c on Richmond Avenue, plus runs very close to the SIM3c on Victory. I'm pretty sure the SIM3c has low ridership, but the MTA wouldn't dare cut service to their beloved Watchogue Road corridor... It's not fair that the North Shore, which already has a robust local network, is getting two off-peak routes that run parallel to one another. Is the ridership demand even high enough to justify two routes? Meanwhile the South Shore will have no service, except for that short SIM4c extension. And the local service is scarce, especially on weekends. Not to mention Arden Avenue is getting completely screwed over (if the SIM4c runs on Woodrow).

From what I understand, it will run down Arden for the exact reason of serving the old X17 riders at the northern end of Arden.

That being said, Mariners Harbor residents have been asking for off-peak service for a while (I joined their civic association back in 2014), so they're definitely excited to have the SIM33C. But that being said, I definitely agree that they should've made those improvements in a manner that kept that SIM2 off-peak service. This was my off-peak proposal:

SIM1C: As-is

SIM2: Extended span. Route kept as-is.

SIM3C: Eliminated. Use SIM34 or SIM32C.

SIM4: Extended span (runs 7 days per week)

SIM26: Runs 7 days per week. Route modified to stop at Arthur Kill Road off-peak, and also get off the West Shore Expressway and take South Avenue to Forest Avenue (serving the Teleport office parks and also Forest & South which has local bus connections to the rest of Mariners Harbor)

SIM32C: Richmond & Victory to East Midtown via Gannon (if necessary, this route can be extended to the SI Mall if people complain about the lack of direct Midtown service)

SIM34: Extended span, and half of the buses go to Port Richmond

The way I see it, the same way the SIM2 covered one area that previously had off-peak express service (Arden Heights) and combined it with two new areas (Travis & Princes Bay/Tottenville) to create a Downtown-only route is the same way the SIM34 would work. It takes Watchogue Road (which has new service) and combines it with Port Richmond (which previously had service) to create a Downtown-only route. The major corridors (Hylan Blvd & Gannon Avenue) keep their Midtown service (also remember, the X17 didn't run Sundays until 2012, when they added the Bay Ridge stop on weekends to cover the X28)

The SIM26 would be a way of adding off-peak Midtown service to the deep South Shore without duplicating the SIM2.

The thing I can't stand about the MTA's planning process is that they assume which issues will be important to which people, if it suits their agenda. (For example, when the study first started in 2015, they mentioned they likely wouldn't add routes down new streets because "people might complain about loud buses". In the meantime, they were telling this to a room full of people who are attending a meeting where people specifically come to address issues/concerns for their community, hence why those meetings are called community board meetings). The people vocal enough to attend those meetings are likely the ones who will be vocal about issues, so it's important to take into consideration what's actually being complained about.

So that's the thing, in practice, Port Richmond & Mariners Harbor residents just want some form of off-peak express service period (preferably to Downtown). Many of the residents have no problem using the local bus (for Mariners Harbor, that's the only way to access off-peak express service, and for Port Richmond, some of them used to take the S44/59 to the X17 because it was quicker than the X10). And on the other end, they have no problem taking the subway. These are the actual issues those people are complaining about. Lack of lighting at some of the bus stops, lack of an overnight North Shore express bus, those are the issues they were complaining about. Heck, out of the ones who drove, some of them even complained about the SIM4C being rerouted away from the highway....they were taking the X17 to the subway anyway, but the main issue was the extra stops on Gannon, not the lack of Midtown service.

That being said, I went to the September 2018 CB3 community board, and I asked the head of the transportation committee if there were any issues, and he said "Yeah, all those buses ending at Craig Avenue". Really? People are left stranded in other areas, and you're complaining about too many buses? (Well, I guess the MTA also used that excuse as well)

9 hours ago, SIMplicity said:

For a second downtown South Shore route, how about the old X22 route, minus the Hylan portion? Then the SIM2 and this new route would cover most of the South Shore. Plus I've seen people transfer between the SIM2 and the SIM25/S74/84 to get to and from Rossville Ave.

The route being proposed was actually just a Downtown version of the SIM26, but you have a good point: The same way the SIM2 was originally supposed to run straight down Huguenot Avenue but was diverted to Arden Avenue to cover more areas is the same way the Downtown route (let's call it SIM27 for now) could follow the SIM26, but then divert to Rossville Avenue.

9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The second route would like follow the SIM25 since a lot of passengers transfer currently from the SIM25 to the SIM2. Either that or perhaps something near or along the SIM26 or in between the SIM25 and 26.

That's not what her group is pushing for. It's a Downtown version of the SIM26 (because the SIM25 duplicates the SIM2 along Hylan, and there's the park between Foster & Bloomingdale, whereas the walk between Foster & Huguenot is much easier). But I agree with SIMplicity, a Bloomingdale/Rossville combo route makes sense.

8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That’s very possible in fact. I think that would be a good idea. Right now it’s just talk while we work with the  . There’s one big wig approving the changes and she has been VERY difficult to work with. Her attitude is I’ll get you into Manhattan, and then you’re on your own from there. Total nonsense.

She's not the head of the department. There's someone over her (she's just one of the ones who gets sent out to a lot of the public meetings)

7 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

A few questions:

1. Is the SIM4C going to skip Gannon and have the SIM33C (can that even fit on the destination sign?) stop there?

2. Would the SIM10 run on F. Cap due to the SIM11 being there? (The SIM7 should also end at New Dorp with the SIM9 going to the ETC also)

3. Would it be beneficial to have the SIM4C run to Tottenville buy having the bus follow the SIM2 route after Woodrow/Huguenot?

Hopefully they don't make the spans and headways of the SIM33C ridiculous like the SIM4C.

1. Correct, that's the purpose of the SIM33C being created, to allow the SIM4C to bypass Gannon.

2. It's being pushed for, but as of right now, no, that's not the plan.

3. Better than nothing I suppose.

And I think they realized that Gannon is the major corridor, so if there's any reductions to the spans & frequencies it would be to the SIM3C not the SIM33C.

6 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

 If the SIM1 (X1), and the SIM34 (X12) will be extended to Houston, would it be beneficial to extend it to 14 St to end with the SIM7/9/33? Might as well just end them there if they're already being extended to begin with.

They should've honestly given off-peak service to the SIM26 (X22) instead of the SIM2 (X19). The former is/was more busier than the latter and it runs/ran to Midtown as opposed to latter which only went to Downtown. 

The whole point of the extension was to ease up on the congestion at the terminal at Chambers Street. Moving them to 14th Street just recreates that same problem a few miles north (where it will spread throughout Downtown). No good.

And a Downtown route should always take priority over a Midtown route for off-peak service, because Staten Island is physically south of Downtown. It doesn't make any sense to go to Midtown to backtrack Downtown, but it makes sense for somebody to get off Downtown and transfer to reach Midtown.

6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I'm guessing that the  is finally coming to it's senses in regards to Staten Island Express bus service. However, I think that is still not enough. Although, I'm a former express bus rider (Brooklyn) BM1, BM2.. We have our own issues. However, that's for another post.. This is significant progress on how loud a borough speaks up to the  and get change.

The biggest improvements I see for this is the new SIM11 more coverage on Hylan which is needed and the SIM33c.  (  needs to stop using abbreviations for these off peak routes). Personally, I think that 33c should of been named SIM36. The main issue that is NOT being addressed is the crowds at The World Financial Center.  There needs to be a new line specifically for the WFC. Those crowds are nasty between the hours of 3:00PM-6:00PM. There should be no reason that 400+ people are waiting in long lines for buses to go back to Staten Island. (AND IT IS DIRECT ACCESS TO THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL)

The other underlying issue is the far west side service via West Street to 57th and 11th. I feel that service needs to come back. Hopefully the Express Bus Advocacy Group can possibly do some work in regards to possible far west side service. The east side is well focused.

The point of calling it the SIM33C is so people know that it follows the SIM33 route on Staten Island.  

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

3. No. The whole point of the re-design is to have quicker service, not a tour of Staten Island.

Yeah, except now they have no express service whatsoever.

5 hours ago, SIMplicity said:

Also, drivers should have to answer for leaving the terminal late - they should have to give a reason. For instance the traffic was bad and they didn't reach the start point in time. It's not the driver's fault, but this information is useful and can be used to try to reduce the number of trips that leave late. Maybe the drivers need more time to get into Manhattan. Also this could reduce the number of trips where the driver sits at the terminus for a few minutes and leaves late. I've seen this a lot.

I brought up the point that if a bus can't get up the terminal in time, they should consider just sending it to start at whatever point it is (for example, if the bus is deadheading up 3rd Avenue and is at 34th Street at the time it's supposed to leave 57th Street, just start heading crosstown to start at 42nd or 34th instead of going up to 57th and leaving late). Some of the complaints involve buses that made it up to the terminal, only to deadhead to a point further south.

And yeah, the schedules need to be adjusted in both directions (so buses don't come too late or too early). I never got a straight answer to the question I asked of "How do you know if a driver is on-time because he's following the schedule, or if he has to drag the line to avoid being early?")

[Via Garibaldi 8]

39 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

1. The X18 was a short route, though (and in terms of cost-per-passenger, it performed around average). I mean, Concord-Downtown is about as short as you're going to get for a Staten Island route (except for the X20 which was even shorter, but carried very few people because people made their way to Hylan or Father Capodanno for more frequent service).

2. That's not what her group is pushing for. It's a Downtown version of the SIM26 (because the SIM25 duplicates the SIM2 along Hylan, and there's the park between Foster & Bloomingdale, whereas the walk between Foster & Huguenot is much easier). But I agree with SIMplicity, a Bloomingdale/Rossville combo route makes sense.

3. She's not the head of the department. There's someone over her (she's just one of the ones who gets sent out to a lot of the public meetings)

4. I brought up the point that if a bus can't get up the terminal in time, they should consider just sending it to start at whatever point it is (for example, if the bus is deadheading up 3rd Avenue and is at 34th Street at the time it's supposed to leave 57th Street, just start heading crosstown to start at 42nd or 34th instead of going up to 57th and leaving late). Some of the complaints involve buses that made it up to the terminal, only to deadhead to a point further south.

5. And yeah, the schedules need to be adjusted in both directions (so buses don't come too late or too early). I never got a straight answer to the question I asked of "How do you know if a driver is on-time because he's following the schedule, or if he has to drag the line to avoid being early?")

1. I never said it was, hence why I’m pushing to get it back. His question was if a Midtown route could be created as ONE route serving BOTH Downtown and Midtown, hence my response.

2. Well as I said, I’ve been speaking with SIM2 riders and I was told that a lot of them transfer from the SIM25. Remember I’m in charge of collecting data from them, so some speak to me via IM. We should discuss this further to make sure we’re on the same page because that was my understanding and I sent my comments to the person compiling all of the info we get.

3. I never said she was. She’s still high up enough that she’s playing a big role in this. A big wig and the big wig is two different things. When I spoke before the board, I’m pretty sure it was her that kept turning around to look at me, and I’m willing to bet that she’ll be at my meeting or at least one of them if we have multiple ones. Of course most of these people have bosses to answer to, but some of these titles are still high up enough for them to make some calls trust me. All of my contacts have bosses too, but they can still make a few phone calls and get things done when needed. These people are in managerial positions like myself. In such roles you certainly make decisions. It’s just a question of how many.

4. You asked me about it, and I spoke with my contact about it, and I told you that was already being done. So far everything that I’ve asked for my contact has provided, so I don’t know what to tell you. I was told that resources are being used as best as they can. Now whether or not I agree with that is another story, but as I said, outside of Staten Island, when I’ve asked questions or requested things, I’ve received straight answers and had my requests filled to keep me happy. I suggested what you requested, and was told that is already being done. That may explain some drivers skipping stops and going further south to try to address overcrowding, though that creates its own problems with riders complaining about how their stop was passed up and then they had a long wait. Having a few missing trips filled is one thing. Dealing with this mess on Staten Island is almost impossible given all the reasons why this new set up isn’t working, and we both know the reasons why.

5. Well I also have complained about that and I told them we need to look at specific schedules. Not only that but part of it is because in my agenda, I told them we need to discuss on-time performance and on-time metrics because that Comptroller’s Report from 2015 calls on the agency to fix their schedules and align them more closely to the realistic arrival times, and also improve on-time performance and come up with an on-time metric (they didn’t even track on-time performance for express buses prior to that audit, and people are paying $13.00 each day for this commuter service!!! Imagine not having an on-time metric for Metro-North or the LIRR) they’ve changed the schedules in some places, and not in others, so you still have cases where buses are extremely hot. Anything over five minutes early is unacceptable to me because you have routes right now where drivers are 10 minutes or more early several times a day and then they have to sit around and wait or they they just go and leave early, which is ridiculous. 

P.S. You should try to break up these posts when addressing several people. 

 

[Lil 57]

As stated in my plan in the advocacy group I would have the SIM2 run to Midtown Off-peak with service every hour with an extended span. With service improvements to the other routes and an SIM43 running off-peak. I explain more in this link:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sOtyq23NeH9rDHK-MzoSInKTxv35dpbHbTX-aJ3qx5k/edit?usp=drivesdk

[dkupf]

The SIM2 didn't work not because the service span was not long enough.

As I had consistently stated, for the premium that the people pay for express bus service, most want a one-seat ride.

And they mustn't be ignored.

[dkupf]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

3. I never said she was. She’s still high up enough that she’s playing a big role in this. A big wig and the big wig is two different things. When I spoke before the board, I’m pretty sure it was her that kept turning around to look at me, and I’m willing to bet that she’ll be at my meeting or at least one of them if we have multiple ones. Of course most of these people have bosses to answer to, but some of these titles are still high up enough for them to make some calls trust me. All of my contacts have bosses too, but they can still make a few phone calls and get things done when needed. These people are in managerial positions like myself. In such roles you certainly make decisions. It’s just a question of how many.

The Chief Planner is Peter Cafiero.  He's a subway buff to the core.  But he knows little about buses.

And, he takes outside suggestions from no one.  Should you give him something, when he has a chance, he will throw it in the garbage.

We may provide the money to pay his salary, but he would always counter that he reports to the Executive Vice President, and obeys that person's word as if it's the word of G-d.

Plain and simple.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, dkupf said:

The Chief Planner is Peter Cafiero.  He's a subway buff to the core.  But he knows little about buses.

And, he takes outside suggestions from no one.  Should you give him something, when he has a chance, he will throw it in the garbage.

We may provide the money to pay his salary, but he would always counter that he reports to the Executive Vice President, and obeys that person's word as if it's the word of G-d.

Plain and simple.

I know very well who Peter Cafiero is and he is another one that I planned on addressing in my successive speeches. I planned on speaking last month but held off because the  asked to meet with me in an attempt to squash me coming before the board and speaking the way that I did the last time.  Doesn't look good for an agency that claims they're trying to "arrest" declining ridership (one of Byford's favorite terms). lol I have no problem speaking before the board regularly until this mess is fixed. I will be meeting with planners in my meeting. It will be interesting to see who is there since I wasn't told who from planning would be there, but I am quite ready to go tit for tat...  I started this Advocacy Group for a reason, and it gets bigger by the day...

[dkupf]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I know very well who Peter Cafiero is and he is another one that I planned on addressing in my successive speeches. I planned on speaking last month but held off because the  asked to meet with me in an attempt to squash me coming before the board and speaking the way that I did the last time.  Doesn't look good for an agency that claims they're trying to "arrest" declining ridership (one of Byford's favorite terms). lol I have no problem speaking before the board regularly until this mess is fixed. I will be meeting with planners in my meeting. It will be interesting to see who is there since I wasn't told who from planning would be there, but I am quite ready to go tit for tat...  I started this Advocacy Group for a reason, and it gets bigger by the day...

I wholeheartedly agree with you.  Those people won't listen without constant and consistent pressure.

[checkmatechamp13]

6 hours ago, dkupf said:

The SIM2 didn't work not because the service span was not long enough.

As I had consistently stated, for the premium that the people pay for express bus service, most want a one-seat ride.

And they mustn't be ignored.

The majority of comments I've seen from people who did use the off-peak SIM2 were that it was wonderful that it was faster than the X17, but it needed to run later. It's called an express bus, not a one-seat bus (the other thing is, some of those people worked Downtown and had a one-seat ride anyway).

The other thing that did in the off-peak service was that ridership along Hylan Blvd specifically was low (most of those same people were former X17 riders in Arden Heights). So with all of this "Give us back what we had before"

I really wish some of the people making these comments would see what the Downtown-Midtown combination does to reliability and ridership. For $6.50, I'm sure those people also expect a reliable bus, not one that bunches on 30 minute headways (**cough** SIM3C). The SIM2 being a Downtown-only route comes in handy because you can at least get to Staten Island and figure it out from there, if there's a problem in Midtown.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The majority of comments I've seen from people who did use the off-peak SIM2 were that it was wonderful that it was faster than the X17, but it needed to run later. It's called an express bus, not a one-seat bus (the other thing is, some of those people worked Downtown and had a one-seat ride anyway).

The other thing that did in the off-peak service was that ridership along Hylan Blvd specifically was low (most of those same people were former X17 riders in Arden Heights). So with all of this "Give us back what we had before"

I really wish some of the people making these comments would see what the Downtown-Midtown combination does to reliability and ridership. For $6.50, I'm sure those people also expect a reliable bus, not one that bunches on 30 minute headways (**cough** SIM3C). The SIM2 being a Downtown-only route comes in handy because you can at least get to Staten Island and figure it out from there, if there's a problem in Midtown.

You either refuse to accept or acknowledge that express buses were created to eliminate a bus to subway or multiple buses to the subway set up, hence the idea of a one seat ride, otherwise there’s no point in paying a higher fare to deal with various transfers, since more transfers usually means a longer commute. Of course some people do transfer, but the point is the express bus is supposed to make the commute faster and EASIER, not more tedious. You are a subway person, so it isn’t shocking that you have such a hard time accepting this concept, and a main reason most express bus riders disagree with you on this point that you keep bringing up. Pay more for more direct service... That’s the idea, not pay more to make more transfers.

[Around the Horn]

12 hours ago, dkupf said:

The Chief Planner is Peter Cafiero.  He's a subway buff to the core.  But he knows little about buses.

And, he takes outside suggestions from no one.  Should you give him something, when he has a chance, he will throw it in the garbage.

We may provide the money to pay his salary, but he would always counter that he reports to the Executive Vice President, and obeys that person's word as if it's the word of G-d.

Plain and simple.

Why am I not surprised... 

[RailRunRob]

16 hours ago, dkupf said:

The Chief Planner is Peter Cafiero.  He's a subway buff to the core.  But he knows little about buses.

And, he takes outside suggestions from no one.  Should you give him something, when he has a chance, he will throw it in the garbage.

We may provide the money to pay his salary, but he would always counter that he reports to the Executive Vice President, and obeys that person's word as if it's the word of G-d.

Plain and simple.

He does a lot of work at Copper Union I've heard him lecture and conversations. I didn't get that vibe from him.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

He does a lot of work at Copper Union I've heard him lecture and conversations. I didn't get that vibe from him.

That whole idea has been circulating for years now about various  staff members just taking written suggestions and throwing them in the trash. I cannot speak about Peter Cafiero since I have never personally interacted with him, but I will say that the allegations wouldn't shock me if they were true.  I think the one positive about the agency now is that this is most open they've been to listening that I can EVER recall.  I met with them this morning, and I have to say that they were pretty honest and frank overall, though they could not answer some questions about maintenance that they should've been able to answer IMO, but they all expressed being open to feedback to improve the system, so in that regard they are improving.  I also made it clear that the way in which people go about their lives has changed drastically. Some people work from home a few days week, some people like myself have meetings all over the place, so my commute varies regularly, and so you can't confine riders to having one commute to and from every day. Just doesn't work.

[RailRunRob]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That whole idea has been circulating for years now about various  staff members just taking written suggestions and throwing them in the trash. I cannot speak about Peter Cafiero since I have never personally interacted with him, but I will say that the allegations wouldn't shock me if they were true.  I think the one positive about the agency now is that this is most open they've been to listening that I can EVER recall.  I met with them this morning, and I have to say that they were pretty honest and frank overall, though they could not answer some questions about maintenance that they should've been able to answer IMO, but they all expressed being open to feedback to improve the system, so in that regard they are improving.  I also made it clear that the way in which people go about their lives has changed drastically. Some people work from home a few days week, some people like myself have meetings all over the place, so my commute varies regularly, and so you can't confine riders to having one commute to and from every day. Just doesn't work.

That could be true with them trashing idea's at some level. Only thing I can go by are the interactions with Peter I've seen or encountered myself. I'm not sure if he's a P.E but he definitely had an official Civil Engineering background above bachelor level like myself plus 30 years in the game so I wouldn't say he's a buff I think that's important to note at that so we don't promote an echo chamber in the convo. Does he have his ear to the street in the bus department that I don't know. But with his background, he should be more than capable of executing with the right information and data. But your right ive never seen the MTA operate this openly there's been an infusion of young energy and this is Definitely the chance to hold them accountable. I see they're continuously tweaking Staten Island as they should until they get it right!!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, RailRunRob said:

That could be true with them trashing idea's at some level. Only thing I can go by are the interactions with Peter I've seen or encountered myself. I'm not sure if he's a P.E but he definitely had an official Civil Engineering background above bachelor level like myself plus 30 years in the game so I wouldn't say he's a buff I think that's important to note at that so we don't promote an echo chamber in the convo. Does he have his ear to the street in the bus department that I don't know. But with his background, he should be more than capable of executing with the right information and data. But your right ive never seen the MTA operate this openly there's been an infusion of young energy and this is Definitely the chance to hold them accountable. I see they're continuously tweaking Staten Island as they should until they get it right!!

My only concern with the idea of making changes is how they're going about making changes and what sort of data they are looking at to make said changes. As I told the woman who is working closely on the Bronx re-design for the express buses, I told them flat out that those express bus lines are damn good in terms of them having few stops, short turn-around points, and run times, but the issue is congestion, so I said we don't want to see tons of changes, but rather we want to work with the  to address the congestion issue which is hampering a number of express bus lines.

[RailRunRob]

32 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

My only concern with the idea of making changes is how they're going about making changes and what sort of data they are looking at to make said changes. As I told the woman who is working closely on the Bronx re-design for the express buses, I told them flat out that those express bus lines are damn good in terms of them having few stops, short turn-around points, and run times, but the issue is congestion, so I said we don't want to see tons of changes, but rather we want to work with the  to address the congestion issue which is hampering a number of express bus lines.

Wouldn’t the congestion thing be more of a DOT city task?  I’m confused how much power the MTA has for creating something like a HOV lane ect?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

33 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Wouldn’t the congestion thing be more of a DOT city task?  I’m confused how much power the MTA has for creating something like a HOV lane ect?

Things like HOV lanes are primarily a DOT issue, yes. When I said have the work on it, we want them to continue to aggressively advocate for certain measures to be implemented such as traffic signal priority.  They certainly can advocate and push for it all they want, and put pressure on the DOT, and we in turn can do the same until they start acting on the needs of riders and the agency to make the transportation viable for as many people as possible.  For example, they confirmed my comments at the  Board meeting in September that indeed no express buses are using traffic signal priority at all despite the service being considered to be a "premium service" and part of that is because the DOT hasn't been doing their part in getting the program up and running. They (the DOT) are severely behind on a number of projects, and that became quite apparent during today's meeting.

Additionally, when I talk about the  doing their part, their attitude historically has been well we don't control traffic, so we can't do anything about it.  No, as I told them you have BusTrek now to closely follow how express buses are doing in REAL time, so in following with the Comptroller's Audit from 2015, one of the requests from that audit was that the  start having their schedules reflect the actual times that buses were arriving versus putting out schedules that weren't realistic with the times that the buses actually arrived at bus stops.  They are also saying well since we don't control traffic, we're going to have to cut the routes further to shorten the run times. My point was we can't keep trying to ignore the elephant in the room. We have a congestion problem and we have to address it.  Making the routes shorter may sound great, but over time if you keep doing that because of the congestion, you'll have shorter and shorter routes that are less attractive to riders who will then abandon them because they don't work for their needs, leading to fewer and fewer riders and more cars and Ubers on the road creating even more congestion, so it's an endless cycle as the woman who is overseeing the Bronx express bus design noted, and I agree with her.

The plan ultimately is to have another meeting with the  in the near future, next time with the DOT present because unfortunately a lot of my questions couldn't be answered today because the  isn't the DOT, and while they work closely with the DOT on various projects, they aren't capable of answering some questions for obvious reasons.

[dkupf]

19 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The majority of comments I've seen from people who did use the off-peak SIM2 were that it was wonderful that it was faster than the X17, but it needed to run later. It's called an express bus, not a one-seat bus (the other thing is, some of those people worked Downtown and had a one-seat ride anyway).

The other thing that did in the off-peak service was that ridership along Hylan Blvd specifically was low (most of those same people were former X17 riders in Arden Heights). So with all of this "Give us back what we had before"

I really wish some of the people making these comments would see what the Downtown-Midtown combination does to reliability and ridership. For $6.50, I'm sure those people also expect a reliable bus, not one that bunches on 30 minute headways (**cough** SIM3C). The SIM2 being a Downtown-only route comes in handy because you can at least get to Staten Island and figure it out from there, if there's a problem in Midtown.

 

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You either refuse to accept or acknowledge that express buses were created to eliminate a bus to subway or multiple buses to the subway set up, hence the idea of a one seat ride, otherwise there’s no point in paying a higher fare to deal with various transfers, since more transfers usually means a longer commute. Of course some people do transfer, but the point is the express bus is supposed to make the commute faster and EASIER, not more tedious. You are a subway person, so it isn’t shocking that you have such a hard time accepting this concept, and a main reason most express bus riders disagree with you on this point that you keep bringing up. Pay more for more direct service... That’s the idea, not pay more to make more transfers.

But, how many riders are using the SIM2 WHEN IT OPERATES?

IMO, you both make salient points.

But, if the SIM2 has less than 10 riders/hour when it runs non-stop between SI and Manhattan during midday weekdays, it's logical to conclude that the route has far less riders during other off-hours.

In other words, the riders have spoken.

[Lawrence St]

11 hours ago, dkupf said:

 

But, how many riders are using the SIM2 WHEN IT OPERATES?

IMO, you both make salient points.

But, if the SIM2 has less than 10 riders/hour when it runs non-stop between SI and Manhattan during midday weekdays, it's logical to conclude that the route has far less riders during other off-hours.

In other words, the riders have spoken.

There's a SIM2????