More major express bus changes coming: New routes and stops, extended service

[Lawrence St]

How is the SIM8X doing?

[SIMplicity]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

How is the SIM8X doing?

I can’t say for sure since I don’t ride it but by observation it seems to be doing pretty well. Lots of people are using it. When I see a SIM8X in the PM rush it’s often pretty full, and the regular SIM8s look a little less crowded than the X17J was. Later in the PM rush I’ve seen a few SIM8Xs that were pretty empty though.

[aemoreira81]

So I take it that the SIM33c will be what replaces the SIM4c to CSI? That route needs off-peak reverse service to Manhattan and also later evening service (service used to run to 10 PM when the X10 was the route and now only runs to 7 PM with the SIM4c).

As for servicing the South Shore, I'm of the belief that such a route should run to Midtown via 440, the Newark Bay Extension, and West Street, with 34 Street (HBLR) as a stop available to and from SI only (to supplement the slower peak-only S89 service - slower because those buses are capped at 40 mph except for an OTR equipment change). The SIM2 needs to be kept off the Gowanus Expressway and its frequent traffic jams. To provide connections to the SI local network, I would propose adding stops at Richmond and Forest, and Richmond and Deppe.

As for Brookfield Place, there should be some SIM7/9/33 trips that start and end there.

[checkmatechamp13]

8 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

So I take it that the SIM33c will be what replaces the SIM4c to CSI? That route needs off-peak reverse service to Manhattan and also later evening service (service used to run to 10 PM when the X10 was the route and now only runs to 7 PM with the SIM4c).

As for servicing the South Shore, I'm of the belief that such a route should run to Midtown via 440, the Newark Bay Extension, and West Street, with 34 Street (HBLR) as a stop available to and from SI only (to supplement the slower peak-only S89 service - slower because those buses are capped at 40 mph except for an OTR equipment change). The SIM2 needs to be kept off the Gowanus Expressway and its frequent traffic jams. To provide connections to the SI local network, I would propose adding stops at Richmond and Forest, and Richmond and Deppe.

As for Brookfield Place, there should be some SIM7/9/33 trips that start and end there.

Yes, we're still waiting on confirmation for that Manhattan routing (West Street vs. Church/Broadway). The span & frequency would be similar to that of the X10.

[FLX9304]

On 11/3/2018 at 1:38 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm requesting the X18 be restored and the X14 via 23rd come back too (not the restructured X14 that ran via Water, but the original one that went to Midtown only). This is long from over. Meeting is coming up in a few days with them. Still lots of unhappy folks, so still have the local folks working on restoring stops there and I speak with them regularly, this way we aren't working on the same things. The SIM30 would be helped out. It seems as if Rosebank wants Midtown service too, so I may just suggest keeping the SIM30 trips as they are, but working to restore more stops, particularly ones that had park-and-ride set ups. People are really pissed about losing some stops on that line and the overcrowding. Having the X14 back would help the folks in my old area there in Westerleigh and West Brighton that used that line. They only have the SIM35 which is absurd. That forces people to have to drive elsewhere for express bus service.

The SIM33c is essentially the old X10 to a degree, with some obvious small changes, and I believe it will go to the East Side off-peak like the old X10 did, which is the way it should be.

Do you mean SIM14 & SIM18? You know that there is no more “X” suffix. In the boro. 

[FLX9304]

Ok. Let me see here: So we started with SIM1-8, 10, 12, 15, 22-26, 30-35. 

Plus the SIM4, 5, 6 & 8x. 

Since then: 

discontinued SIM5x & 6X, replaced them with SIM9. 

In two months, you’re gonna have SIM11, 33c and extensions of 1/34. No more SIM2 off peak/weekends 

these people should’ve been a little smarter than this to begin with. 

But just remember: This was pilots to see what can be made on a permanent basis. Remember. This isn’t BK. 😂😂😂😂. You can’t fix what’s already been izzade 

[B35 via Church]

21 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Do you mean SIM14 & SIM18? You know that there is no more “X” suffix. In the boro. 

He's saying he wants the (pre-2010) x14 & the x18 old routes restored.... Quite frankly, I concur with that; the pre-2010 x13 & x14 patterns/routing should've been left alone.... I've also would have kept the x18 around.....

There is no SIM14 & SIM18.

2 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Ok. Let me see here: So we started with SIM1-8, 10, 12, 15, 22-26, 30-35. 

Plus the SIM4, 5, 6 & 8x. 

Since then: 

discontinued SIM5x & 6X, replaced them with SIM9. 

In two months, you’re gonna have SIM11, 33c and extensions of 1/34. No more SIM2 off peak/weekends 

these people should’ve been a little smarter than this to begin with

Yeah, it's one thing to be tweaking schedules & changing routings.... It's another to be eliminating & adding entire routes after a redesign....

Pure incompetency.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

42 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Do you mean SIM14 & SIM18? You know that there is no more “X” suffix. In the boro. 

No no... I’m so dense that I run an advocacy group and don’t know what I’m requesting... 

[FLX9304]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No no... I’m so dense that I run an advocacy group and don’t know what I’m requesting... 

You can use the SIM14 & SIM18, which is not used yet, as having them run on the pre-2010 patterns that the old X14/18 used to run. I read your point. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

You can use the SIM14 & SIM18, which is not used yet, as having them run on the pre-2010 patterns that the old X14/18 used to run. I read your point. 

Most riders don’t like this SIM crap. We still use the X prefix. A lot of people at this point just want the old routes back despite their flaws. A hell of a lot better than spending three hours one way getting home.

[SIMplicity]

6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Most riders don’t like this SIM crap. We still use the X prefix. A lot of people at this point just want the old routes back despite their flaws. A hell of a lot better than spending three hours one way getting home.

The three hour trips yesterday would’ve happened under the old system too. It only took so long because of the falling debris on the highway. Old system or new system, it would’ve been hell either way.

I think overall the south shore new routes are better than the old ones. More direct, less windy, fewer turns, more options. Except, tons of people are driving to the bus stop. I’ve seen this on Rossville Ave for the SIM25. Not sure exactly why - maybe the stop spacing is too much, or they are avoiding the Academy routes, but probably they live within walking distance but driving is faster and easier.

For the north shore, what they’ve been doing is horrible. Both before and after the redesign. Cutting routes (X16/X18), removing segments in Manhattan (X31 on 42nd, X14 in Midtown, X12/X30/X42 on 57th), forcing people to drive to the SIM3/34, etc. It’s really unfair. What they did with Hylan is also a mess. For such a major corridor you can’t screw up people’s commutes like that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

32 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

The three hour trips yesterday would’ve happened under the old system too. It only took so long because of the falling debris on the highway. Old system or new system, it would’ve been hell either way.

I think overall the south shore new routes are better than the old ones. More direct, less windy, fewer turns, more options. Except, tons of people are driving to the bus stop. I’ve seen this on Rossville Ave for the SIM25. Not sure exactly why - maybe the stop spacing is too much, or they are avoiding the Academy routes, but probably they live within walking distance but driving is faster and easier.

For the north shore, what they’ve been doing is horrible. Both before and after the redesign. Cutting routes (X16/X18), removing segments in Manhattan (X31 on 42nd, X14 in Midtown, X12/X30/X42 on 57th), forcing people to drive to the SIM3/34, etc. It’s really unfair. What they did with Hylan is also a mess. For such a major corridor you can’t screw up people’s commutes like that.

Three hour commutes aren’t just from yesterday. The difference between this system and the old one are the insane wait times when customers were promised FREQUENT service. I’ve had passengers report 40 minute PLUS waits on various lines and on various days. That’s a problem. No excusing that. I spoke with road ops about a number of trips around the system, and even some of the last trips of the night were going missing leaving passengers stranded. 

I’ve taken four express bus trips so far today and all of them have finished late. None of them were SIM lines either. I’m on trip #5... QM2 to Bay Terrace...

[Coney Island Av]

It's crazy that the MTA has tricked people into thinking the new network would be more direct/frequent/faster. They did the exact opposite when it took effect. I strongly agree that the old routes should be revived, regardless of their flaws. 

It's kind of funny when only a small minority are benefited from this "so-called" marvelous plan from a multi-million dollar agency. The only routes that meandered a lot were some of the South Shore express routes like the X17C/J, X23, and X24. The X19 and X22/X22A were kind of circuitous, but they worked well. The rest of routes didn't really meander a lot nor did they have any severe problems (save for potentially the X14 on Water before going to Midtown). 

I really doubt that passengers will stop complaining by January... 

[checkmatechamp13]

9 hours ago, SIMplicity said:

I think overall the south shore new routes are better than the old ones. More direct, less windy, fewer turns, more options. Except, tons of people are driving to the bus stop. I’ve seen this on Rossville Ave for the SIM25. Not sure exactly why - maybe the stop spacing is too much, or they are avoiding the Academy routes, but probably they live within walking distance but driving is faster and easier.

For the north shore, what they’ve been doing is horrible. Both before and after the redesign. Cutting routes (X16/X18), removing segments in Manhattan (X31 on 42nd, X14 in Midtown, X12/X30/X42 on 57th), forcing people to drive to the SIM3/34, etc. It’s really unfair. What they did with Hylan is also a mess. For such a major corridor you can’t screw up people’s commutes like that.

I'd say 42nd Street is the less congested approach into Midtown compared to 34th Street, so if I had to guess, those people are driving from Academy route territory to the SIM25 because they don't want to transfer from the Academy routes at "Checkpoint" and risk having to stand on the SIM22/25.

One of the things I suggested (I'm not sure if I mentioned it on here, but one of my ideas was to extend the SIM4X/8X to the South Shore, and have the regular SIM4/8 cut back to the SI Mall when the SIM4X/8X operate (and of course, adjust the schedules accordingly so that loads are balanced). The SIM8X saves about 8-10 minutes compared to the regular SIM8, so even if it takes a little longer than the SIM23/24 (or 22/25), it might speed the trip up enough to get some Woodrow Road riders who find it more convenient than walking or driving to another route.

I say "South Shore" because I believe the SIM4 should be extended to Arden & Drumgoole at a minimum (to make up for the loss of Downtown service in Annadale). At that point, maybe it could be extended to end with the SIM23 (which I believe should end at Pollion rather than Barclay) and provide even more Downtown-South Shore connectivity (It might even pull a few riders off the SIM1 if they live west of Richmond Avenue and find it quicker than going through Hylan)

I agree, Hylan Blvd was their biggest screwup overall. 

8 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

It's crazy that the MTA has tricked people into thinking the new network would be more direct/frequent/faster. They did the exact opposite when it took effect. I strongly agree that the old routes should be revived, regardless of their flaws. 

It's kind of funny when only a small minority are benefited from this "so-called" marvelous plan from a multi-million dollar agency. The only routes that meandered a lot were some of the South Shore express routes like the X17C/J, X23, and X24. The X19 and X22/X22A were kind of circuitous, but they worked well. The rest of routes didn't really meander a lot nor did they have any severe problems (save for potentially the X14 on Water before going to Midtown). 

I really doubt that passengers will stop complaining by January... 

Well, one of the things that I've been begging them to do is release the statistics, both those that they used to justify the initial changes and all of the subsequent ones after August 19th. There were a lot of people who benefitted (myself being one of them....at least for my rush hour commute....off-peak is a different story but that will be fixed in January). The thing is, it's always going to be people who lost service who you're going to hear from (and there were a lot of them as well, not sure if I'd say they're the majority, but with Hylan being the major corridor that it is, that definitely affected a lot of people).

[X17JS74]

On 11/9/2018 at 12:54 PM, Lawrence St said:

How is the SIM8X doing?

My wife drives to the Mall everyday for the 8X even though the 8 is a block away from us on Woodrow, She says it's a world of difference.... never standees either way and just gets full by the last Manhattan stop at 8th Av.  Though as an old X21 rider she would rather catch a bus across from work at 42nd and Lex instead of walking to 5th.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Given the ongoing issues with the Staten Island Express Bus Re-design, The Express Bus Advocacy Group along with the local Staten Island advocacy groups working to restore service are asking all Staten Island Express Bus Riders to take a few minutes out of your day today to write to the big wigs at the  who created this disaster and explain your commutes from hell.  They need to know that the changes made are NOT enough, and that MUCH more needs to be done to fix this mess.  PM me for more details or join us on Facebook: Express Bus Advocacy Group.

[Interested Rider]

The big wigs a/k/a suits are immune from anything as their political patrons will make sure that nothing happens to them. 

If this was anything but the government, it would be virtually guaranteed that they would not be in their positions very long. Thanks to Woodrow Wilson and those that followed him over the past 100 years, those on the top will always be protected, no matter how bad of a job that they do or did. 

On December 9 (if my memory serves me correctly) let us all wish Museum Bus 8928, best wishes as on that date in 1968, it helped start the first Staten island-Manhattan Express Bus service.

[The TransitMan]

I knew that eliminating the X2, X3, X9 in New Dorp and replace it with NOTHING was not going to sit well with those customers. The people have spoke and got the SIM11!

[161 New York]

Based on what I could manually comb through from our upcoming Winter 2019 pick, effective 01/13/2019 regarding SIM2:

The first SIM2 bus out of HYLAN/CRAIG appears to be 04:35 and the last bus out of HYLAN/CRAIG is 09:00.

The first SIM2 bus departing WORTH appears to be 15:05 and the last bus out of WORTH is 20:15.

There appears to be slight service reductions in the 16:00, 18:00 and 19:00 hours.  Trips from 15:00 - 15:59 and 17:00-17:59 remain unchanged.

Again, this was manually reviewed, there could be additional trips. However, the CA, MA and YU schedules show nothing.

It should be noted that the former x19 started at around 13:30.

 

 

[Lil 57]

1 hour ago, 161 New York said:

Based on what I could manually comb through from our upcoming Winter 2019 pick, effective 01/13/2019 regarding SIM2:

The first SIM2 bus out of HYLAN/CRAIG appears to be 04:35 and the last bus out of HYLAN/CRAIG is 09:00.

The first SIM2 bus departing WORTH appears to be 15:05 and the last bus out of WORTH is 20:15.

There appears to be slight service reductions in the 16:00, 18:00 and 19:00 hours.  Trips from 15:00 - 15:59 and 17:00-17:59 remain unchanged.

Again, this was manually reviewed, there could be additional trips. However, the CA, MA and YU schedules show nothing.

It should be noted that the former x19 started at around 13:30.

 

 

I can see serve service reductions on the SIM3C due to the SIM33C being created. If this happens the SIM33C should serve the Narrows Road instead of the SIM3C so it doesn't screw over Narrows Road riders.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

I can see serve service reductions on the SIM3C due to the SIM33C being created. If this happens the SIM33C should serve the Narrows Road instead of the SIM3C so it doesn't screw over Narrows Road riders.

Ideally, it shouldn't, since that way the ridership is somewhat spread out. If the SIM3C only serves the Watchogue Road portion, expect service to be cut. 

[Lil 57]

4 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Ideally, it shouldn't, since that way the ridership is somewhat spread out. If the SIM3C only serves the Watchogue Road portion, expect service to be cut. 

I think that the SIM3C is still serving the Narrows Road while the SIM33C wouldn't. Also I think that the 33C is going via west in Manhattan so that might save SIM3C service levels. All I know is that SIM3C service is being cut weekday mornings due to the SIM33C. 

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I think that the SIM3C is still serving the Narrows Road while the SIM33C wouldn't. Also I think that the 33C is going via west in Manhattan so that might save SIM3C service levels. All I know is that SIM3C service is being cut weekday mornings due to the SIM33C. 

I went to the public hearing tonight. The SIM33C will operate via Broadway down to Battery Place (and the schedule will be coordinated with the SIM3C so that buses are staggered instead of arriving together)

3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Ideally, it shouldn't, since that way the ridership is somewhat spread out. If the SIM3C only serves the Watchogue Road portion, expect service to be cut. 

Beat me to it.

[SIMplicity]

On 12/3/2018 at 1:50 PM, 161 New York said:

Based on what I could manually comb through from our upcoming Winter 2019 pick, effective 01/13/2019 regarding SIM2:

The first SIM2 bus out of HYLAN/CRAIG appears to be 04:35 and the last bus out of HYLAN/CRAIG is 09:00.

The first SIM2 bus departing WORTH appears to be 15:05 and the last bus out of WORTH is 20:15.

There appears to be slight service reductions in the 16:00, 18:00 and 19:00 hours.  Trips from 15:00 - 15:59 and 17:00-17:59 remain unchanged.

Again, this was manually reviewed, there could be additional trips. However, the CA, MA and YU schedules show nothing.

It should be noted that the former x19 started at around 13:30.

 

 

The first SIM2 from Manhattan (possibly) leaves at 3:05?? Tell that to the 21 people who took the 1:20 bus with me today (including several elderly people). Sure, portions of it will be covered by the SIM4C, but: 7 or 8 got off at Victory in Travis, 4 at Arthur Kill (checkpoint), 5 in Huguenot, 1 in Princes Bay and 1 in Tottenville — none of which will be served by the SIM4C, and will lose off peak service. Granted, the bus was nowhere near completely full, but there are off peak and early/late rush hour buses on other express routes in the city that aren’t near full either. And when they said “very low ridership” it sounded like buses were near empty (which they are at some times of the day, but not all). And I’m curious to know how SIM3C off-peak ridership is, and whether it’s high enough that two parallel north shore off peak routes will get enough ridership. But I at least think the SIM2 should start at 2:00 like the X19, if not 1:00.

Of course, though, I am only venting because I am biased about this, and there are much bigger issues right now than the loss of SIM2 off peak service. (i.e. financial crisis, fare hikes, BM/QM/BxM service cuts, missing trips, unreliability etc etc etc)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

33 minutes ago, SIMplicity said:

The first SIM2 from Manhattan (possibly) leaves at 3:05?? Tell that to the 21 people who took the 1:20 bus with me today (including several elderly people). Sure, portions of it will be covered by the SIM4C, but: 7 or 8 got off at Victory in Travis, 4 at Arthur Kill (checkpoint), 5 in Huguenot, 1 in Princes Bay and 1 in Tottenville — none of which will be served by the SIM4C, and will lose off peak service. Granted, the bus was nowhere near completely full, but there are off peak and early/late rush hour buses on other express routes in the city that aren’t near full either. And when they said “very low ridership” it sounded like buses were near empty (which they are at some times of the day, but not all). And I’m curious to know how SIM3C off-peak ridership is, and whether it’s high enough that two parallel north shore off peak routes will get enough ridership. But I at least think the SIM2 should start at 2:00 like the X19, if not 1:00.

Of course, though, I am only venting because I am biased about this, and there are much bigger issues right now than the loss of SIM2 off peak service. (i.e. financial crisis, fare hikes, BM/QM/BxM service cuts, missing trips, unreliability etc etc etc)

I happen to agree with you and the SIM2 will be on my agenda for the next meeting that I have with the  . It isn't enough to say that it had low ridership. I'd like specifics.