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More major express bus changes coming: New routes and stops, extended service


SIMplicity

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39 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

I've seen comments on reviving the X13/X14 pattern, as well as the X18, but would reviving the X16 be a good idea?

If you're talking about my commentary it wouldn't be quite an X16/18 revival because the SIM37 would serve Midtown instead of Downton due to the SIM30 being split. Heres a quote of my doc.

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The SIM30 should be split into 2 routes. People that live near the eastern end of the SIM30 don’t want to ride a bus through the entire north shore before going to the expressway to get to Midtown. This could be fixed by truncating the SIM30 at Forest/Broadway and by having a new route (Let's call this the SIM37) run from Castleton Depot via the old X16 route on Staten Island to Midtown via the FDR Drive, 23rd Street and Madison Ave. Alternate Buses could run via Sunnyside and via Rosebank. The span and frequency should be similar to the SIM30.

 

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13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I’m assuming you’re separating Arlington from Mariners Harbor. If so then I agree about ridership. It is more so on the old X30 if anything and south of South Avenue which is not Arlington.

Basically, Arlington is north of the train tracks, Mariners Harbor is between the train tracks and Forest Avenue, and Graniteville is between Forest Avenue and the Staten Island Expressway. So yes, we're in agreement.

11 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I somewhat agree with your statement. It's either more reliable service or direct Midtown service. However, if you ever needed to transfer between express routes in Manhattan off-peak all of the off-peak routes (except the SIM2) share one place, Midtown. With the exception of the SIM2, you can get anywhere in the off-peak express bus network by transferring in one place, Midtown. Maybe the (MTA) could have a 3-way transfer with the SIM2, any subway or bus (including express buses) below Worth Street and an express route in Midtown.

The issue I have with that is that the off-peak express network still leaves giant swaths of Staten Island unserved. I see your point that pretty much every other off-peak express route citywide serves Midtown, but I don't think there's too many people transferring between the SIM routes and BxM/QM routes, to the point where you'd get that much more ridership by going to Midtown (but yes, I do think it's fair to program a third transfer in for the few people who need it).  I'd rather use those resources to run the SIM26 (or even your/our SIM27) off-peak since that provides coverage to more areas on Staten Island. (And of course, if it's the SIM26, that provides the South Shore with direct Midtown service, albeit covering different areas than the SIM2).

11 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I can see where you're going. But remember that the SIM33 serves West Street while the SIM33C doesn't.

I kept that in mind. Yes, it would be a span reduction, but it would still be a longer span than that of the X10B. (Of course, the other way to go about it would be to extend the span of the SIM31 & SIM32 to coordinate with that of the SIM33)

11 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I agree with your SIM37 comment. However, I've seen people get on an X42 along Forest Ave instead of taking the X30 across the street to midtown. Most likely because the X42 also served 23rd Street to 42nd Street.

So have I, but I don't think it's too many in the grand scheme of things. For the few who need East 23rd Street or the general area south of 42nd Street, they can take the S48/98 (or even the SIM33/34) to the SIM3, which runs a longer span and more frequently than the X42. The same way I don't think a "via FDR" variant of the X17 is necessary (though at one point in the late 1990s/early 2000s, the X17/22/31 went down the FDR Drive in the PM rush, but they were later routed via NJ in both directions, though the X31 went back and forth between "via Brooklyn/West Street" and "via NJ" over the years)

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55 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Basically, Arlington is north of the train tracks, Mariners Harbor is between the train tracks and Forest Avenue, and Graniteville is between Forest Avenue and the Staten Island Expressway. So yes, we're in agreement.

The issue I have with that is that the off-peak express network still leaves giant swaths of Staten Island unserved. I see your point that pretty much every other off-peak express route citywide serves Midtown, but I don't think there's too many people transferring between the SIM routes and BxM/QM routes, to the point where you'd get that much more ridership by going to Midtown (but yes, I do think it's fair to program a third transfer in for the few people who need it).  I'd rather use those resources to run the SIM26 (or even your/our SIM27) off-peak since that provides coverage to more areas on Staten Island. (And of course, if it's the SIM26, that provides the South Shore with direct Midtown service, albeit covering different areas than the SIM2).

I kept that in mind. Yes, it would be a span reduction, but it would still be a longer span than that of the X10B. (Of course, the other way to go about it would be to extend the span of the SIM31 & SIM32 to coordinate with that of the SIM33)

So have I, but I don't think it's too many in the grand scheme of things. For the few who need East 23rd Street or the general area south of 42nd Street, they can take the S48/98 (or even the SIM33/34) to the SIM3, which runs a longer span and more frequently than the X42. The same way I don't think a "via FDR" variant of the X17 is necessary (though at one point in the late 1990s/early 2000s, the X17/22/31 went down the FDR Drive in the PM rush, but they were later routed via NJ in both directions, though the X31 went back and forth between "via Brooklyn/West Street" and "via NJ" over the years)

1. I agree with the SIM2/26 running off-peak. They probably won't run every 30 minutes but every 60. The SIM26 is much faster for Midtown than an SIM2C.

Also after reading your blog, I've created the SIM4N. A overnight combo of the SIM4C/33C. More info is in the doc.

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@Lil 57 I don't think there's a need for a 3:55am SIM2. The reason I said 4:15am is because it would get Downtown around the same time as the 4:05am X17 used to (since it goes up the West Shore Expressway instead of Richmond Avenue), and then riders can make their way from there. (Unless of course, you're assuming that there's demand for earlier service on the South Shore that wasn't previously accommodated, but then the SIM4N also comes into play, at least as far as Arden Heights goes). 

Also, I'm assuming the SIM4N would bypass the Annadale loop (if it's going to run down Woodrow like the SIM8)? 

The 45 minute gap in the evening on the SIM2 is likely because they thought about cutting it back to 7:30pm, but then wanted to give people in Travis, Huguenot, and Princes Bay/Tottenville one last chance to catch a bus back home (since the SIM4C covers Arden Heights at that time).

For the SIM2 & SIM26, I would personally still run them every 30 minutes (especially the SIM2 since I would have it as the sole route serving Arden Heights. Also remember that Arden Heights has no weekend local bus service either. Hopefully the local bus restructuring will fix that). 

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4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Lil 57 I don't think there's a need for a 3:55am SIM2. The reason I said 4:15am is because it would get Downtown around the same time as the 4:05am X17 used to (since it goes up the West Shore Expressway instead of Richmond Avenue), and then riders can make their way from there. (Unless of course, you're assuming that there's demand for earlier service on the South Shore that wasn't previously accommodated, but then the SIM4N also comes into play, at least as far as Arden Heights goes). 

Also, I'm assuming the SIM4N would bypass the Annadale loop (if it's going to run down Woodrow like the SIM8)? 

The 45 minute gap in the evening on the SIM2 is likely because they thought about cutting it back to 7:30pm, but then wanted to give people in Travis, Huguenot, and Princes Bay/Tottenville one last chance to catch a bus back home (since the SIM4C covers Arden Heights at that time).

For the SIM2 & SIM26, I would personally still run them every 30 minutes (especially the SIM2 since I would have it as the sole route serving Arden Heights. Also remember that Arden Heights has no weekend local bus service either. Hopefully the local bus restructuring will fix that). 

1. I agree, The SIM4N would have early morning riders.

2. Yes, below the ETC it would run like the new SIM4C/SIM8.

3. I was thinking that but I rather see an extra bus added in that hour since I don't want to see 2 buses worth of people onto 1.

4. I would like to see the SIM2 and SIM26 run every 30 minutes but knowing the (MTA) they're probably going to take service off the SIM2 off-peak and make the SIM26 off-peak out of that. (So it's either an SIM2C every 30 minutes or two buses every hour.)

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17 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I was thinking that but I rather see an extra bus added in that hour since I don't want to see 2 buses worth of people onto 1.

The thing is that the only reason 2 buses were necessary was because that was the only option to the reach Arden Heights at the time (and according to the MTA representatives, and I would like to see official statistics to back it up) around 75% of the SIM2 ridership is in Arden Heights. (I took an informal poll and got 12 riders from Arden Heights, 5 riders from Princes Bay/Tottenville, 3 riders from Huguenot, and 1 rider from Travis, which seems to reasonably match their numbers considering it was a small sample size)

17 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I would like to see the SIM2 and SIM26 run every 30 minutes but knowing the (MTA) they're probably going to take service off the SIM2 off-peak and make the SIM26 off-peak out of that. (So it's either an SIM2C every 30 minutes or two buses every hour.)

I oppose the concept of a SIM2C . Leave the route Downtown no matter what. What I'm saying is that if any additional money is found, it should first be directed towards extending the span of the SIM2 (it should've been running until 1am weekdays, and at least 11pm-12am on weekends) and then it should be directed towards gradually adding off-peak SIM26 service (I have a 1993 Staten Island bus map, and the X1 & X10 were Monday-Saturday routes, and the X17 was a weekday-only route, and you see how far they've come since then). Add some later evening service, some midday service, and before you know it you have a 7-day express route. 

Also, another thing with the SIM3C schedule is that in addition to removing early-morning service from Concord, it also removes early morning service to the Castleton Depot (and Port Richmond in general of course, which I can imagine might have some overnight workers returning home given that it's a working-class area). But with Castleton in particular, I'm sure there's some B/Os who work there and use the express bus to have an easier commute. Granted, Concord/Port Richmond riders can take the SIM1C to the S53 (I'd personally take the S53 even for Concord unless I was in a rush, because the S93 is packed with CSI students around that time) or take the SIM33C to the S54/57 or S44/59 but still, considering reverse-peak service is relatively cheap to operate, they should've left the early-morning span of the SIM3C. 

For that matter, I met a B/O who actually commutes from Connecticut to the Charleston Depot (she was transferred, I believe from The Bronx but I may be mistaken since I think that's MaBSTOA and not NYCT). In any case, she actually drives to the (5) train, takes that down to the ferry, and then takes the ferry, SIR, and S78 to get to Charleston. Taking the SIM2 to the S74/78 would make the trip a lot easier. (I don't know what her shift is, but depending on her starting time it might work for her. The other thing is I don't know if her employee pass works on express buses (I heard that they renegotiated it so B/Os out of Staten Island depots can use them). But even still, considering how fast the SIM2 is I'd definitely say it's well worth the $6.50 to save that much time. The SIM2 is easily 30 minutes quicker than the SIR to the South Shore if not more (depending on where exactly you're going)

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  • 2 weeks later...

So little subtle change in the SIM33C schedule: Buses now stop along Narrows Road (the original schedule had them running straight to Slosson Avenue).

What does this mean? As far as I'm concerned, it means the SIM3C's days are numbered. Right now, most of the SIM3C's ridership comes from Arrochar/Concord and Graniteville. There's only a few people who use it in Westerleigh & Castleton Corners (and Castleton Corners is within walking distance of the SIM33C anyway). With the SIM3C being the only off-peak express route in Concord (and sharing the SIM1C's riders in Arrochar, which there are a lot of), it might've had a shot at getting a decent amount of ridership (especially if it was coordinated properly with the SIM33C which it wasn't, except maybe outbound service on the weekends to a certain extent).

But with the SIM33C sharing the SIM3C's ridership base in Graniteville and Concord/Arrochar.....yeah, you can kiss the SIM3C good-bye in April....It'll be "What they had before" during off-peak hours, just the X1, X10, and X17 with no X12 service (except that Mariners Harbor gets swapped out for Port Richmond as far as receiving off-peak express service, which I do believe to be the area with slightly higher ridership potential anyway since it's a bit further from the ferry)

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10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So little subtle change in the SIM33C schedule: Buses now stop along Narrows Road (the original schedule had them running straight to Slosson Avenue).

What does this mean? As far as I'm concerned, it means the SIM3C's days are numbered. Right now, most of the SIM3C's ridership comes from Arrochar/Concord and Graniteville. There's only a few people who use it in Westerleigh & Castleton Corners (and Castleton Corners is within walking distance of the SIM33C anyway). With the SIM3C being the only off-peak express route in Concord (and sharing the SIM1C's riders in Arrochar, which there are a lot of), it might've had a shot at getting a decent amount of ridership (especially if it was coordinated properly with the SIM33C which it wasn't, except maybe outbound service on the weekends to a certain extent).

But with the SIM33C sharing the SIM3C's ridership base in Graniteville and Concord/Arrochar.....yeah, you can kiss the SIM3C good-bye in April....It'll be "What they had before" during off-peak hours, just the X1, X10, and X17 with no X12 service (except that Mariners Harbor gets swapped out for Port Richmond as far as receiving off-peak express service, which I do believe to be the area with slightly higher ridership potential anyway since it's a bit further from the ferry)

i wonder if what they are minipulate is a drop in ridership on the sim1 so  they can reduce off middays ans evening weekdays  15-20 and week as well and eventually run both the sim3c/33c  hourly off peak and weekends.

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20 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So little subtle change in the SIM33C schedule: Buses now stop along Narrows Road (the original schedule had them running straight to Slosson Avenue).

What does this mean? As far as I'm concerned, it means the SIM3C's days are numbered. Right now, most of the SIM3C's ridership comes from Arrochar/Concord and Graniteville. There's only a few people who use it in Westerleigh & Castleton Corners (and Castleton Corners is within walking distance of the SIM33C anyway). With the SIM3C being the only off-peak express route in Concord (and sharing the SIM1C's riders in Arrochar, which there are a lot of), it might've had a shot at getting a decent amount of ridership (especially if it was coordinated properly with the SIM33C which it wasn't, except maybe outbound service on the weekends to a certain extent).

But with the SIM33C sharing the SIM3C's ridership base in Graniteville and Concord/Arrochar.....yeah, you can kiss the SIM3C good-bye in April....It'll be "What they had before" during off-peak hours, just the X1, X10, and X17 with no X12 service (except that Mariners Harbor gets swapped out for Port Richmond as far as receiving off-peak express service, which I do believe to be the area with slightly higher ridership potential anyway since it's a bit further from the ferry)

And they're still not coordinated. I love having a 7-day express bus (SIM3C) a block away, If that's eliminated, I will probably be taking express buses much less than I do now. If the SIM3C is eliminated, I'll have alternative SIM33C buses serve Port Richmond, since that area always had 7-day service. Port Richmond service is also cheaper to operate. The SIM33C would run every 15-30 minutes weekdays, every 15-20 minutes all day Saturday and every 20-30 minutes all day Sunday if this was to happen.

At the very least, If the SIM3C is cut off-peak, I'll bring back the SIM2 off-peak since it provides more coverage.

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35 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

And they're still not coordinated. I love having a 7-day express bus (SIM3C) a block away, If that's eliminated, I will probably be taking express buses much less than I do now. If the SIM3C is eliminated, I'll have alternative SIM33C buses serve Port Richmond, since that area always had 7-day service. Port Richmond service is also cheaper to operate. The SIM33C would run every 15-30 minutes weekdays, every 15-20 minutes all day Saturday and every 20-30 minutes all day Sunday if this was to happen.

At the very least, If the SIM3C is cut off-peak, I'll bring back the SIM2 off-peak since it provides more coverage.

Another thought, The SIM3C is quicker to the Narrows Road (About 5-10 minutes faster) Maybe that could save SIM3C ridership since it'll be coming first.

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2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

We'll have to see. The SIM3C is also fairly unreliable. 

Saying the SIM3C and the SIM33C are going to be based out of the same depot, I don't think that the SIM33C is going to be any better.

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12 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Saying the SIM3C and the SIM33C are going to be based out of the same depot, I don't think that the SIM33C is going to be any better.

That's not the point though.  What the (MTA) tried to do was stupid. They tried to shift ridership to Victory and along Watchogue, which is a different corridor of ridership.  You have too much ridership along the SIE border with the old X10, and their stupid redesign came back to bite them in the @ss, so now they have to backtrack. I really don't know how the SIM3C will do because it's a question of how much true ridership exists off-peak along Victory and along Watchogue.  If they left at different times and the SIM3C didn't serve the last stops before the Verrazzano I'd say great, but only time will tell.  Having them come at roughly the same time tells me that if the SIM3C doesn't cut it, then they will stop chopping away at service.  Problem is they would leave Port Richmond with no off-peak service.  Maybe they want that, citing, "changing demographics". Who knows...

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12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's not the point though.  What the (MTA) tried to do was stupid. They tried to shift ridership to Victory and along Watchogue, which is a different corridor of ridership.  You have too much ridership along the SIE border with the old X10, and their stupid redesign came back to bite them in the @ss, so now they have to backtrack. I really don't know how the SIM3C will do because it's a question of how much true ridership exists off-peak along Victory and along Watchogue.  If they left at different times and the SIM3C didn't serve the last stops before the Verrazzano I'd say great, but only time will tell.  Having them come at roughly the same time tells me that if the SIM3C doesn't cut it, then they will stop chopping away at service.  Problem is they would leave Port Richmond with no off-peak service.  Maybe they want that, citing, "changing demographics". Who knows...

Port Richmond actually has been seeing an increase in ridership for the SIM3/3C. Port Richmond got a direct route to Midtown peak hours and the SIM3C is also a bit quicker than the X10. I also wouldn't of have the SIM33C serve the Narrows Road.

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5 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Port Richmond actually has been seeing an increase in ridership for the SIM3/3C. Port Richmond got a direct route to Midtown peak hours and the SIM3C is also a bit quicker than the X10. I also wouldn't of have the SIM33C serve the Narrows Road.

Well I don’t think both of them need to serve those stops off-peak, but I suppose adjustments can be made next pick.

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8 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Port Richmond actually has been seeing an increase in ridership for the SIM3/3C. Port Richmond got a direct route to Midtown peak hours and the SIM3C is also a bit quicker than the X10. I also wouldn't of have the SIM33C serve the Narrows Road.

You mean they got back a direct Midtown route during rush hour. Remember the X14 used to bypass Downtown before 2010.

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On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 7:38 PM, FLX9304 said:

So in this case, if you wanna do a routes total competition between Queens-M to SIM routes, how many routes (not combined) would it have by 4/2019 (assume the changes)

Don't understand what you're asking here....

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

You mean they got back a direct Midtown route during rush hour. Remember the X14 used to bypass Downtown before 2010.

Oh, I forgot about that. Before the redesign Port Richmond ridership was also higher on the X14 than the X10B.

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Don't understand what you're asking here....

Let me rephrase it a little bit: the list between QM & SIM are almost similar to each other: both have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 15, 24, 25, 31, 32, 34, & 35. 

QM has 12, 16, 17, 18, 36, 40 & 44

SIM has 9, 22, 23, 24, 26 and 33. So by adding the 11, both Q & SI routes will have the same total

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