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Via Garibaldi 8

MTA chief: I made turnstile jumper buy a MetroCard

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The problem with the Eagle Team is that they're easily identifiable and travel in marked vans.

If they were in plainclothes and just flashed their badge while asking for tickets, I think results would be different.

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1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

....To my point, this is far more of a widespread and damaging issue for Regional Transportation bar none.

Every issue isn't equal can't lose track of the overall goal. Which is better transportation for the City, Region and all. IMO too much is oversimplified and subject to distraction and noise and very often that's purposely.

As I tell my team sometimes if you can't solve the problem or have the answer right off the next best thing is trying to manage the issue at hand. IMO fair beating can be placed in that manage bracket. While the bigger funding war is waged.

The antiquated, discombobulated MTA culture, as conveyed by Abbott & Costello:

 

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not buying that they're are as many that are unable, I'm much more inclined to believe that folks simply don't want to pay... If you value something, even if you're down to your last 2 nickels to rub together, you're going to pay for it.... It isn't wholly, and not that it's right, but it's largely an MTA problem as to why people are stealing service at the frequency that they are - and all the negative reinforcement in the world isn't going to stop that bleeding.....

Although I'm sick of seeing & maneuvering around all these damn cabs in this city, you can't really blame these guys for exploiting a market.... Kill or be killed.

3

Fair and very valid points! Can't say I don't agree with you.

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1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

The problem with the Eagle Team is that they're easily identifiable and travel in marked vans.

If they were in plainclothes and just flashed their badge while asking for tickets, I think results would be different.

For sure that would definitely a better use of the current teams to get maximum effectiveness. Keep em guessing. @Italianstallion hit on some points as well.

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10 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

The problem with the Eagle Team is that they're easily identifiable and travel in marked vans.

If they were in plainclothes and just flashed their badge while asking for tickets, I think results would be different.

on the B44sbs & Q53sbs, there are a few eagle team units that roll around in unmarked units, although the vans have MTA license plates. seen one on avenue u & Nostrand and another on Woodhaven & Metropolitan 

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10 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

The problem with the Eagle Team is that they're easily identifiable and travel in marked vans.

If they were in plainclothes and just flashed their badge while asking for tickets, I think results would be different.

I don't think them being in uniform has that much of an impact on people that are fare beating.  I've seen various riders busted now because lots of people aren't too bright.  There two sides to that.  Showing them in uniform and the amount of them in uniform when they go out checking can instill a sense of fear in people to get them to pay, which is ultimately supposed to be the goal, not so much of going out and busting people. What is predictable is some of the stops they tend to hit.  That should be changed. I think they focus on stops with subway transfers a bit too often likely in an attempt to get the biggest bang for the buck so to speak.  Even if they were plainclothes, you would just get the people that like to ride for free begging people for their ticket as they got off of the bus.

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Waste of more money the Eagle Team, Transit cop wont help the bottom line. it’s seems no other system counts fair beating that high but more lack of ridership. In this case its the lack of service so there’s a lack of ridership. In a city were you have to show the MTA has shown nothing I’m not surprised. You can’t be a slumlord but want your rent ain’t going work that way, This is that on a bigger scale.

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9 hours ago, Just New York said:

Waste of more money the Eagle Team, Transit cop wont help the bottom line. it’s seems no other system counts fair beating that high but more lack of ridership. In this case its the lack of service so there’s a lack of ridership. In a city were you have to show the MTA has shown nothing I’m not surprised. You can’t be a slumlord but want your rent ain’t going work that way, This is that on a bigger scale.

That's a pretty accurate description. I'm telling you EVERY subway ride that I take no, I'd say over 90% of the trips are people coming on begging or some other nonsense, on top of packed subway cars.

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8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's a pretty accurate description. I'm telling you EVERY subway ride that I take no, I'd say over 90% of the trips are people coming on begging or some other nonsense, on top of packed subway cars.

I don't think the volume of swipe beggars are even a drop in the bucket for the subway crowding issues.

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6 hours ago, CenSin said:

I don't think the volume of swipe beggars are even a drop in the bucket for the subway crowding issues.

QFT. It's the bus riders. A good 10-15% of folks on the ones I ride just get on and walk on by the farebox.

Maybe it's my ethics, but how hard is it to put two nickels in if you don't have $2.75? 

I got no problem subsidizing folks who don't have, but damn, put something in the box.

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On 11/19/2018 at 9:07 PM, Just New York said:

Waste of more money the Eagle Team, Transit cop wont help the bottom line. it’s seems no other system counts fair beating that high but more lack of ridership. In this case its the lack of service so there’s a lack of ridership. In a city were you have to show the MTA has shown nothing I’m not surprised. You can’t be a slumlord but want your rent ain’t going work that way, This is that on a bigger scale.

When you have 10's of thousands of people farebeating everyday it becomes a major problem. No other transit system is as large as this one either so you can't compare apples to oranges. 

True "paid" ridership is decreasing, but fare beating is increasing, and that's a fact. Not an opinion.

Edited by East New York
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On 11/15/2018 at 9:22 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

What I was saying was that while I do not support fare evasion, enforcement of it is more expensive than its effect, and it's often used more as a political excuse than a genuine one. It's also less prevalent than people think.

You also have to think how little a dent this is in the MTA's finances. Remember that most of their $ is needed for salaries, so anything like what Byford mentioned is more of a publicity stunt or PR gimmick than an actual solution to the MTA's woes.

That doesn't make sense at all from a business standpoint, That's like saying lets not invest in a better security system at my retail store because the theft doesn't outweigh.

On 11/15/2018 at 11:44 PM, Around the Horn said:

Ridership did not drop by 191,000 people a day because of fare beaters...

Focusing on fare beating while ignoring the people choosing to switch to other forms of transportation (such as single occupancy vehicles) because of the deteriorating quality of service is a dereliction of duty...

Also perhaps fare beating is up because the quality of service isn't worth $2.75? 🤔

Very true but that doesn't change the facts at hand. Many people who once paid now are not because they can get away with it. They are actively and aggressively tackling the situation and not ignoring anything at all, as would have one time (recently) been quite accurate. 

On 11/16/2018 at 10:07 AM, Future ENY OP said:

Here's the deal. If you make a felony. People will think twice to commit fare evasion.

I don't want to turn this to the haves and have nots. However, I will say this. If you can stand in line and buy $220.00 sneakers than you can definitely afford to pay into the system for $2.75. (Although the service stinks at this time but paying into the system is better than stealing into the system)

Also, I get the people who are just not workable and aren't able to contribute to society. However, something has to give with this issue of fare evasion.

We are going into 2019 with no solution to the problem. Both subways and buses are having problems. The emphasis is employee safety and that has to be #1 and resources needed to fund extra transit cops to strictly enforce fare evasion.

Making it a felony is not even legally possible, not to mention completely unconstitutional.  The fare isn't $1000 or more.

We are going into 2019 with several plans to solve the problem. We should have a better take on what will be done, or what the final plans are soon.

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4 hours ago, East New York said:

Making it a felony is not even legally possible, not to mention completely unconstitutional.  The fare isn't $1000 or more.

Not to mention, we have only begun to undo the societal damage of imprisoning people willy nilly. The answer is not more prison, because that's not actually a deterrent to crime.

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The emergency exits are the biggest culprit. At the 46st stop on the (R) you'll see kids from William Bryant just prop open the gate and stream in. Other tactics are to have one person pay in and open the emergency door or wait until a train pulls in and since everyone loves to exit that way simply barge in. Those doors are like the MTA wants people to fare beat. 

 

I agree with B35, all unmanned exits should be HEETs. 

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3 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

The emergency exits are the biggest culprit. At the 46st stop on the (R) you'll see kids from William Bryant just prop open the gate and stream in. Other tactics are to have one person pay in and open the emergency door or wait until a train pulls in and since everyone loves to exit that way simply barge in. Those doors are like the MTA wants people to fare beat. 

 

I agree with B35, all unmanned exits should be HEETs. 

That’s what I have seen at Avenue M (Q) when I went to high school there (at Edward R Murrow High School). Usually kids just wait at the exit door there and wait for someone to open the door, usually their friends. Once they do that, they stream onto an already-crowded platform. At its peak, there’s almost no room at that entrance, despite everyone moving down the platform.

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On 11/16/2018 at 10:07 AM, Future ENY OP said:

Here's the deal. If you make a felony. People will think twice to commit fare evasion.

I don't want to turn this to the haves and have nots. However, I will say this. If you can stand in line and buy $220.00 sneakers than you can definitely afford to pay into the system for $2.75. (Although the service stinks at this time but paying into the system is better than stealing into the system)

Also, I get the people who are just not workable and aren't able to contribute to society. However, something has to give with this issue of fare evasion.

We are going into 2019 with no solution to the problem. Both subways and buses are having problems. The emphasis is employee safety and that has to be #1 and resources needed to fund extra transit cops to strictly enforce fare evasion.

NO... that’s not the solution here.... locking up EVERYONE who can’t afford it or merely doesn’t have it at the moment isn’t the answer... 

lowering the fares are... OR create a card that is for those who are low incomed so they can still ride the system at a reduced rate 

they have cards for seniors... why can’t they have something for those less fortunate who are still trying to be productive in society 

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On 11/20/2018 at 6:14 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's a pretty accurate description. I'm telling you EVERY subway ride that I take no, I'd say over 90% of the trips are people coming on begging or some other nonsense, on top of packed subway cars.

Ugh!! Now that you bring that up Beggers and those with a shit ton of nonsense, I don't like putting up with these type of people. On every other day when I exit 63rd Drive on the (M)(R)  just simply minding my own business trying to get home from. School, there's one person who begs for a swipe. Whenever they ask me, I usually reply, "Sorry, I don't have a MetroCard" when in reality, I have a student card which I use every weekdays. Panhandlers, I usually ignore. I don't like dealing with any of their shits either. 

On 11/21/2018 at 5:55 PM, East New York said:

When you have 10's of thousands of people farebeating everyday it becomes a major problem. No other transit system is as large as this one either so you can't compare apples to oranges. 

True "paid" ridership is decreasing, but fare beating is increasing, and that's a fact. Not an opinion.

Heres one solution I thought of. With the new fare payment system coming up soon wouldn't it be good to have some type of security system so that the (MTA) can track down farebeaters more efficiently. Meaning, that each farebeater would have a track record, showing the amount of times they beat the fare without giving them a fine or arresting them on the spot, this is one method in my opinion that could make farebeaters think twice. This is something in my opinion that (MTA) and NYPD should be looking at. 

Now typing from the perspective of someone who is (unfortunate so to speak), some people can ask the NYPD and the Agent at station booths to go through the emergency exit if they're short on money, and they let them through. 

On 11/24/2018 at 9:31 AM, JFK Depot said:

NO... that’s not the solution here.... locking up EVERYONE who can’t afford it or merely doesn’t have it at the moment isn’t the answer... 

lowering the fares are... OR create a card that is for those who are low incomed so they can still ride the system at a reduced rate 

they have cards for seniors... why can’t they have something for those less fortunate who are still trying to be productive in society 

Thank you, this is another viable solution that (MTA) should be focusing on. Besides, there's a reduced fare card if I'm not mistaken ($1.35 per ride). It's quite sad how (MTA) has special cards for Employees, Students, and Seniors, yet can't help the low income passengers or those below the poverty line. At least, the (MTA) could come up with something like this. 

(Unaltered) Regular MetroCard: Pay Per ride - $2.75; 7 Day - $32; Monthly - $121 

Reduced Fare cards either remain $1.35 or should reduce to a Dollar. (To which group of people does this type of MetroCard apply to?) 

Student cards should get an increase of 2 rides, making it 5 rides total.

I'm not sure how Senior MetroCard's work, can someone shed some light on this? 

*New* Low Income MetroCards for those who have low income or are below the poverty line. The following payments should look something like this:

Pay Per Ride - $1.00

Weekly - $10.00

Monthly - $30.00 

I dont know if this is a fair fare or not but if the (MTA) proposes something like this then they could start regaining money and start seeing an increase in *paid* ridership. 

Geez, I came up with 2 possible solutions in one post, any thoughts on this? 

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On 11/24/2018 at 9:31 AM, JFK Depot said:

NO... that’s not the solution here.... locking up EVERYONE who can’t afford it or merely doesn’t have it at the moment isn’t the answer... 

lowering the fares are... OR create a card that is for those who are low incomed so they can still ride the system at a reduced rate 

they have cards for seniors... why can’t they have something for those less fortunate who are still trying to be productive in society 

Where have you been?  It's called the fair fares program...

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2 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Ugh!! Now that you bring that up Beggers and those with a shit ton of nonsense, I don't like putting up with these type of people. On every other day when I exit 63rd Drive on the (M)(R)  just simply minding my own business trying to get home from. School, there's one person who begs for a swipe. Whenever they ask me, I usually reply, "Sorry, I don't have a MetroCard" when in reality, I have a student card which I use every weekdays. Panhandlers, I usually ignore. I don't like dealing with any of their shits either. 

Today's subway ride took the cake.  The car I was in on the (A) train.... THREE people either selling or begging ALL at once.  I hate to say it but now they're trying to target the suckers.  They don't even bother to ask me. I look at them like they're crazy. Get the **** outta here with that.  I used to give years ago here and there, but I stopped completely.  Too many people shaking you down. Let them go out and WORK instead of asking for handouts.

Some people are truly unfortunate but others just have no sense of pride or shame. It annoys me to no end.  What's worse is you have parents raising their kids to do the same crap.  You had one teen selling his candy or whatever, another teen or young adult just blatantly walking up to people asking them for money, and then a mother having her two kids selectively choosing women that they thought were suckers to beg for money for their so called drawings or whatever they were doing.  So incredibly tacky.  I just don't understand what these parents are doing out here. If they can't afford to have kids don't have them!  I mean Jesus Christ, every thing is going up, and every where you turn someone has them damn hand out begging.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Today's subway ride took the cake.  The car I was in on the (A) train.... THREE people either selling or begging ALL at once.  I hate to say it but now they're trying to target the suckers.  They don't even bother to ask me. I look at them like they're crazy. Get the **** outta here with that.  I used to give years ago here and there, but I stopped completely.  Too many people shaking you down. Let them go out and WORK instead of asking for handouts.

Some people are truly unfortunate but others just have no sense of pride or shame. It annoys me to no end.  What's worse is you have parents raising their kids to do the same crap.  You had one teen selling his candy or whatever, another teen or young adult just blatantly walking up to people asking them for money, and then a mother having her two kids selectively choosing women that they thought were suckers to beg for money for their so called drawings or whatever they were doing.  So incredibly tacky.  I just don't understand what these parents are doing out here. If they can't afford to have kids don't have them!  I mean Jesus Christ, every thing is going up, and every where you turn someone has them damn hand out begging.  

Word up...Its gotten far out of control lately...I try sometimes taking a different line to avoid the beggers,dancers,etc and still i run into them...I sit with my headphones and just ignore them now...I do understand some need help cause we all do...But for the young dancers and candy sellers i just ignore them....

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12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Today's subway ride took the cake.  The car I was in on the (A) train.... THREE people either selling or begging ALL at once.  I hate to say it but now they're trying to target the suckers.  They don't even bother to ask me. I look at them like they're crazy. Get the **** outta here with that.  I used to give years ago here and there, but I stopped completely.  Too many people shaking you down. Let them go out and WORK instead of asking for handouts.

Some people are truly unfortunate but others just have no sense of pride or shame. It annoys me to no end.  What's worse is you have parents raising their kids to do the same crap.  You had one teen selling his candy or whatever, another teen or young adult just blatantly walking up to people asking them for money, and then a mother having her two kids selectively choosing women that they thought were suckers to beg for money for their so called drawings or whatever they were doing.  So incredibly tacky.  I just don't understand what these parents are doing out here. If they can't afford to have kids don't have them!  I mean Jesus Christ, every thing is going up, and every where you turn someone has them damn hand out begging.  

 

Did each panhandler hit up the other panhandlers for their own money?? Now that would be a sight to see!

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12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Today's subway ride took the cake.  The car I was in on the (A) train.... THREE people either selling or begging ALL at once.  I hate to say it but now they're trying to target the suckers.  They don't even bother to ask me. I look at them like they're crazy. Get the **** outta here with that.  I used to give years ago here and there, but I stopped completely.  Too many people shaking you down. Let them go out and WORK instead of asking for handouts.

Some people are truly unfortunate but others just have no sense of pride or shame. It annoys me to no end.  What's worse is you have parents raising their kids to do the same crap.  You had one teen selling his candy or whatever, another teen or young adult just blatantly walking up to people asking them for money, and then a mother having her two kids selectively choosing women that they thought were suckers to beg for money for their so called drawings or whatever they were doing.  So incredibly tacky.  I just don't understand what these parents are doing out here. If they can't afford to have kids don't have them!  I mean Jesus Christ, every thing is going up, and every where you turn someone has them damn hand out begging.  

They've been trying to target suckers... You have to be a sucker to even give money to any of them; that appeal to emotion bit has zero effect on me nowadays... That's where I'm at with this whole panhandling in the subway bit.... Every single one of them I smirk at, whenever they approach me for "food", "change", whatever.... I'm not "taking a chance in doing what's right", I'm not trying to find anymore needles in anymore haystacks.... Keep giving money to these sons of b**ches & you'll eventually end up "begging for change" right along with their asses.... Call it black & white thinking, call me all the heartless a**holes if you wish, but even the ones that are legitimately poverty stricken I throw in the same boat with the frauds.... I'll be that guy to say it - The ones that are legit poor & down on their luck that are watching the fakes taking what's potentially "theirs", bleeding the "market" dry, however you wish to categorize it, should be beating the living snot out of these fakes....

As a grown man, what would you do if someone took food from your plate (figurative & literally speaking)?? (If) I'm really down on my luck, I'm really hungry & I'm just going to sit back watch panhandlers who are only exploiting a market to add a few more dollars to what they already have (Trust me, I've seen the wads of cash some of these dudes pull out after they did all of their begging on a particular train... shit is highly insulting)? Nah.... F*** do I care about being potentially being arrested when I'm about to die of dehydration and/or starvation.....

I'm more than convinced that there is an entire network of these f**** whose sole goal is to siphon money out of whatever suckers they can...

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

They've been trying to target suckers... You have to be a sucker to even give money to any of them; that appeal to emotion bit has zero effect on me nowadays... That's where I'm at with this whole panhandling in the subway bit.... Every single one of them I smirk at, whenever they approach me for "food", "change", whatever.... I'm not "taking a chance in doing what's right", I'm not trying to find anymore needles in anymore haystacks.... Keep giving money to these sons of b**ches & you'll eventually end up "begging for change" right along with their asses.... Call it black & white thinking, call me all the heartless a**holes if you wish, but even the ones that are legitimately poverty stricken I throw in the same boat with the frauds.... I'll be that guy to say it - The ones that are legit poor & down on their luck that are watching the fakes taking what's potentially "theirs", bleeding the "market" dry, however you wish to categorize it, should be beating the living snot out of these fakes....

As a grown man, what would you do if someone took food from your plate (figurative & literally speaking)?? (If) I'm really down on my luck, I'm really hungry & I'm just going to sit back watch panhandlers who are only exploiting a market to add a few more dollars to what they already have (Trust me, I've seen the wads of cash some of these dudes pull out after they did all of their begging on a particular train... shit is highly insulting)? Nah.... F*** do I care about being potentially being arrested when I'm about to die of dehydration and/or starvation.....

I'm more than convinced that there is an entire network of these f**** whose sole goal is to siphon money out of whatever suckers they can...

You'd be right about that.  That's another reason I've become increasingly annoyed with it.  The kids on the (A) train have a routine. They ride from somewhere uptown on the (A) and (C) with the mother and then go around trying to get money from adults, mainly females.  The mother sits and watches them and clearly has them target specific people and when she sees it isn't working, she'll signal for them to come back to her and they either wait for more suckers to come on and ride or go to another car to work that one. Absolutely disgusting. I don't even ride the lines that much but I've seem them enough during the week and on weekends to know that it's a scam.

2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Did each panhandler hit up the other panhandlers for their own money?? Now that would be a sight to see!

I'll tell you what I do... When I'm asked for money, my reply is how about I make a deal with you? For ever 50 cents I give you, you give me a dollar? I did this with a guy on Madison one night when I was walking to get to Metro-North.  I go how does that sound? He's like I ain't got it, so I go oh yeah? Well I ain't got it either, and it's actually true since I rarely walk around with cash these days. lol That shuts them up real fast. I don't like sounding like a heartless prick because over the years I have taken people to various places to get food. I let them get what they want too and I pay for it because that's what my mom would do.  She always said I'll give people food or buy them food, but I am not giving them money, and that's the principle I go by now. If they're truly hungry, they'll accept the offer, and I don't do cheap either. I have no problem letting them get something healthy and of quality if that's what they want. I've even given away my own lunch to people.  The scammers will turn you down every time though.  They want your hard earned money to piss away.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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3 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

Word up...Its gotten far out of control lately...I try sometimes taking a different line to avoid the beggers,dancers,etc and still i run into them...I sit with my headphones and just ignore them now...I do understand some need help cause we all do...But for the young dancers and candy sellers i just ignore them....

I never recall it being this bad. The problem is for the people that truly need help, the riding public becomes tone death after a while. Had I given to everyone in that car that passed through on that short ride, I would've been out of $3.00.  Then you get hit up coming back on the train. I mean really, do that both ways for a few weekends, and you're giving away $30+ a month.  I can get food or something with that money. That doesn't even include the people begging on the street nor tips that you give out for actual service rendered...

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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