Designing Bus Routes to Attract Passengers and Reverse the Decline in Ridership

[Future ENY OP]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBus said:

Why would the depot matter? The college doesn't want buses. They claim it's a security issue and they couldn't check IDs which they don't do anyway. 

This completely doesn't make sense. I mean CUNY security isn't the best top notch (I went to LAGCC & NYCTC which have better security than KCC). (laughing) ha..

[Jdog14]

6 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

This completely doesn't make sense. I mean CUNY security isn't the best top notch (I went to LAGCC & NYCTC which have better security than KCC). (laughing) ha..

 

Maybe non student people would be able to gain access to school grounds this way. 

[BrooklynBus]

21 minutes ago, Jdog14 said:

 

Maybe non student people would be able to gain access to school grounds this way. 

They don't question walk ins, only if you are in a car. As far as allowing school buses on the grounds, all they have to do is check IDs when people get on the bus. So none of this makes sense. The school is giving nonsense excuses.

They also wouldn't help out by making sure students don't harass MTA bus drivers if they try to leave the campus not quite full so as to be able to pick up other passengers. They responded their security force is not allowed to leave the campus which is not true since I once saw them assisting the NYPD a half mile from the campus. 

[FLX9304]

On 11/25/2018 at 6:09 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Which means the reply I made to @FLX9304 comment is moot. Besides, I agree with your Q101 extension to the Ferry. 

your comment isn't moot. You are just saying it from your request. I know that the M15SBS doesnt run overnight, but the local version does.

[JeremiahC99]

4 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Why would the depot matter? The college doesn't want buses. They claim it's a security issue and they couldn't check IDs which they don't do anyway. 

Yet they have buses stopping on the campus at both Queensborough Community College and at College of Staten Island, the latter of which some of my friends go to by bus (S93 from Brooklyn)? Why is Kingsborough stating that they don’t want any buses stopping in the campus due to some security issue that the other colleges with  buses on property don’t have? This could be beneficial for them since students, some of whom I’m friends with, won’t have to walk 4 blocks from Mackenzie Street (or Kensington Street if the buses don’t pull into the Mackenzie Loop) to their classes, especially on a cold day.

 

At the bare minimum, they should have every other bus serve the property. 

[BrooklynBus]

9 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Yet they have buses stopping on the campus at both Queensborough Community College and at College of Staten Island, the latter of which some of my friends go to by bus (S93 from Brooklyn)? Why is Kingsborough stating that they don’t want any buses stopping in the campus due to some security issue that the other colleges with  buses on property don’t have? This could be beneficial for them since students, some of whom I’m friends with, won’t have to walk 4 blocks from Mackenzie Street (or Kensington Street if the buses don’t pull into the Mackenzie Loop) to their classes, especially on a cold day.

 

At the bare minimum, they should have every other bus serve the property. 

I already stated their answers don't make sense. There is currently no room for every other bus to enter the campus. But there is room for the shuttle buses.

Interesting is that before the college and the terminal, the last stop was Oxford st. The nycta cut the routes by 2 blocks to save money. They could have built the terminal at Oxford instead.

[JeremiahC99]

Just now, BrooklynBus said:

I already stated their answers don't make sense. There is currently no room for every other bus to enter the campus. But there is room for the shuttle buses.

And yet they don't want to allocate some space for MTA 60' buses?

 

Why can't MTA and CUNY and other colleges work together to integrate their campuses with MTA infrastructure, making commuting for college students and professors easier? Almost all of the students and some of my professors, even the department chair for my major department in the college I go to (City Tech), could use an easier commute if the subway stops were integrated with the campus buildings and/or the bus stops were near the college.

[BrooklynBus]

10 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

And yet they don't want to allocate some space for MTA 60' buses?

 

Why can't MTA and CUNY and other colleges work together to integrate their campuses with MTA infrastructure, making commuting for college students and professors easier? Almost all of the students and some of my professors, even the department chair for my major department in the college I go to (City Tech), could use an easier commute if the subway stops were integrated with the campus buildings and/or the bus stops were near the college.

There is no room for 60 foot buses in the terminal and certainly not in the college. The other things you ask for are easy to ask for but not easy to do.

[JeremiahC99]

38 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

There is no room for 60 foot buses in the terminal and certainly not in the college. The other things you ask for are easy to ask for but not easy to do.

Well at least put 40’ buses there, but either way, if CSI and Queensborough can get buses on their campus ground without any issues, then so can Kingsborough. I bet that Kingsborough is acting so entitled to add bus stops on the ground since they don’t want to lose their parking spots, and I’m also thinking that the security issue is a lie, even at other CUNY campus. I once walked into Brooklyn College without incident and i go to City Tech. Time to start caring about the students.

[BrooklynBus]

33 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Well at least put 40’ buses there, but either way, if CSI and Queensborough can get buses on their campus ground without any issues, then so can Kingsborough. I bet that Kingsborough is acting so entitled to add bus stops on the ground since they don’t want to lose their parking spots, and I’m also thinking that the security issue is a lie, even at other CUNY campus. I once walked into Brooklyn College without incident and i go to City Tech. Time to start caring about the students.

As I said there are too many buses now for the college to be able to accommodate them all without some reconstruction. Yes, one alternative would be to eliminate about 20 parking spaces, a mere drop in the bucket. The other area is to use a green area which the College instead decided to develop into a softball field instead that is rarely used. An MTA official about ten years ago told me, "See that area there? It would be sufficient for us to put our buses there." 

And yes, I agree with you that the college does not care enough about its students. 

[JeremiahC99]

2 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

As I said there are too many buses now for the college to be able to accommodate them all without some reconstruction. Yes, one alternative would be to eliminate about 20 parking spaces, a mere drop in the bucket. The other area is to use a green area which the College instead decided to develop into a softball field instead that is rarely used. An MTA official about ten years ago told me, "See that area there? It would be sufficient for us to put our buses there." 

And yes, I agree with you that the college does not care enough about its students. 

Is that softball field the Kingsborough Athletic Field (as its called on Google Maps) that is located along Oriental Blvd between Norfolk and Oxford Street by the campus entry gate? And why did they opt for a softball field instead of a small bus terminal out of greed and entitlement and not enough thought about its students?

 

Do you think the MTA can currently convince the college to relocate the field to another area to make room for the bus terminal now?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Is that softball field the Kingsborough Athletic Field (as its called on Google Maps) that is located along Oriental Blvd between Norfolk and Oxford Street by the campus entry gate? And why did they opt for a softball field instead of a small bus terminal out of greed and entitlement and not enough thought about its students?

 

Do you think the MTA can currently convince the college to relocate the field to another area to make room for the bus terminal now?

Yes that is it. I can't answer your last question. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Why is it so important for the MTA to serve an entire college campus when you have a perfectly fine terminal at Kingsborough? That's almost as bad as asking for a subway stop that goes directly to your house.

A few minutes of walking won't kill you.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Why is it so important for the MTA to serve an entire college campus when you have a perfectly fine terminal at Kingsborough? That's almost as bad as asking for a subway stop that goes directly to your house.

A few minutes of walking won't kill you.

KCC should provide their own shuttles and call it a day.  

[MysteriousBtrain]

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

KCC should provide their own shuttles and call it a day.  

Shuttles are probably what will work the most. Other colleges like NYU, Columbia and even college of Staten Island have their own shuttles that they use. 

But MTA buses serving a campus just to serve it? It's not their job.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Shuttles are probably what will work the most. Other colleges like NYU, Columbia and even college of Staten Island have their own shuttles that they use. 

But MTA buses serving a campus just to serve it? It's not their job.

Well there's a cost associated it with that. Some of these colleges try to be super cheap to keep tuition low, but either way the students pay. Prior to moving and finishing my studies in Europe at a private school, my home university here would run shuttles and we paid for it through our tuition. It was part of our student fees that went into a pot for such things. My private school in Europe... Shuttles... LOL Yeah right... Luckily my apartment wasn't too far from campus so I could walk. When I was feeling lazy, I'd get the bus. I mention it because the tuition at the private school was basically three times what I paid here and yet I had more services, so it's all about what the colleges want to prioritize. However, the private university also allowed us to have excursions for dirt cheap, so it depends.  You can prioritize traveling/excursions or transportation.

[BrooklynBus]

15 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Shuttles are probably what will work the most. Other colleges like NYU, Columbia and even college of Staten Island have their own shuttles that they use. 

But MTA buses serving a campus just to serve it? It's not their job.

I think you are confusing a few things. Shuttles within a campus between its buildings as many universities have is the schools job. But that is not what we are talking about here. 

This is about having buses stop at the campuses door or a quarter mile away. Yes a quarter mile is not much for a college student, but there still is a long walk from the college's door to the the classroom, so the quarter-mile walk to the school could be nearly a half-mile. The current standard for local bus service is a quarter-mile walk to the bus stop which the MTA is trying to increase to three quarters of a mile. If that happens, bus ridership in this city will only decline more. 

As far as the school providing shuttles, Kingsborough already does this from the subway stations to supplement MTA service which accounts for about 15 percent of the bus trips made by students. As for a shuttle. From the terminal to the closest building or between buildings, that would be a little ridiculous. 

As for the costs, even presently the MTA is being screwed. They should not have to pay for any extra school service in this city as far as I am concerned. That cost should be borne entirely by the city, because if the MTA did not provide it, the city would have to at a greater cost. 

At 3 PM alone the MTA sends out 12 additional buses from the depot to Kingsborough just for the college and high school. The MTA having to  pay for that service which isn't even adequate is ridiculous. 

[JeremiahC99]

39 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Why is it so important for the MTA to serve an entire college campus when you have a perfectly fine terminal at Kingsborough? That's almost as bad as asking for a subway stop that goes directly to your house.

A few minutes of walking won't kill you.

They are outgrowing the current terminal at Mackenzie Street. It’s has been so bad that sometimes buses would end up making their last stop at Langham or Kensington Street, adding even more walking time. For several years, this has been a problem.

 

If they want to better serve students and other passengers, they must have an enhanced terminal to better accommodate growing enrollment and to end the practice of having buses end at Kensington St instead of the Mackenzie  terminal.

[BrooklynBus]

Just now, JeremiahC99 said:

They are outgrowing the current terminal at Mackenzie Street. It’s has been so bad that sometimes buses would end up making their last stop at Langham or Kensington Street, adding even more walking time. For several years, this has been a problem.

 

If they want to better serve students and other passengers, they must have an enhanced terminal to better accommodate growing enrollment and to end the practice of having buses end at Kensington St instead of the Mackenzie  terminal.

You are correct. But to spend money to expand the existing terminal at its present location would be a waste. It needs to be moved onto the college property. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

17 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I think you are confusing a few things. Shuttles within a campus between its buildings as many universities have is the schools job. But that is not what we are talking about here. 

This is about having buses stop at the campuses door or a quarter mile away. Yes a quarter mile is not much for a college student, but there still is a long walk from the college's door to the the classroom, so the quarter-mile walk to the school could be nearly a half-mile. The current standard for local bus service is a quarter-mile walk to the bus stop which the MTA is trying to increase to three quarters of a mile. If that happens, bus ridership in this city will only decline more. 

As far as the school providing shuttles, Kingsborough already does this from the subway stations to supplement MTA service which accounts for about 15 percent of the bus trips made by students. As for a shuttle. From the terminal to the closest building or between buildings, that would be a little ridiculous. 

As for the costs, even presently the MTA is being screwed. They should not have to pay for any extra school service in this city as far as I am concerned. That cost should be borne entirely by the city, because if the MTA did not provide it, the city would have to at a greater cost. 

At 3 PM alone the MTA sends out 12 additional buses from the depot to Kingsborough just for the college and high school. The MTA having to  pay for that service which isn't even adequate is ridiculous. 

15% is a drop in the bucket.

[BrooklynBus]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

15% is a drop in the bucket.

So are you saying the school should provide more service? They are only providing the service at all because too many students were constantly late to class due to the MTA's poor reliability. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, BrooklynBus said:

So are you saying the school should provide more service? They are only providing the service at all because too many students were constantly late to class due to the MTA's poor reliability. 

Damn straight they should.  Charge more tuition if need be.  Why should the  be running all of those shuttles? We both know that the school benefits from the increased enrollment, and they want to pocket the profits and then press the  to provide more service.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Damn straight they should.  Charge more tuition if need be.  Why should the  be running all of those shuttles? We both know that the school benefits from the increased enrollment, and they want to pocket the profits and then press the  to provide more service.

I disagree. The MTA should provide the service and Kingsborough should be paying for all of it. That means every MTA subway shuttle which pretty much used exclusively by the Kingsborough students plus all the school extras the MTA puts on for them. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

24 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I disagree. The MTA should provide the service and Kingsborough should be paying for all of it. That means every MTA subway shuttle which pretty much used exclusively by the Kingsborough students plus all the school extras the MTA puts on for them. 

And what does the  get out of the deal? We both know that KCC would pay less that way...

[BrooklynBus]

33 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

And what does the  get out of the deal? We both know that KCC would pay less that way...

I don't understand you. I thought I made myself clear. The  gets plenty out of the deal. All the money they are now spending to provide extra service to Kingsborough would be reimbursed by Kingsborough or the city. How would KCC be paying less?