CBTC - General Discussion

[N6 Limited]

I want to see 50MPH  Express trains from Lexington Ave to Union Turnpike, lets go CBTC!

Will they still have CTL conga line on the  ? or will they allow CBTC Relays without fumigation? 

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

QBL has had CBTC problems daily for the past 2 weeks, usually in the section west of Roosevelt. What the heck went wrong and how long will the fix take?

[R10 2952]

The MTA has had a shitty approach to signal equipment maintenance for years, just look at their repair backlog.  Would not be surprised if their myopic attitude has carried over to the new system as well.

Edited June 11, 2021 by R10 2952

[Lex]

9 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

The MTA has had a shitty approach to signal equipment maintenance for years, just look at their repair backlog.  Would not be surprised if their myopic attitude has carried over to the new system as well.

I mean, QBL was always going to be more difficult to handle (four tracks with multiple diverging points, hooking into parts of the system currently without it, already-high combined frequencies, the use as a replacement for a legacy signal system, and Thales having some involvement).

9 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

QBL has had CBTC problems daily for the past 2 weeks, usually in the section west of Roosevelt. What the heck went wrong and how long will the fix take?

There are several diverging points (some of which aren't in regular use).

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Some question for those in the know. I rode the from Roosevelt to Manhattan, and saw fewer (former) automatic signals active west of Roosevelt and in the 53rd st tube while looking out the RFW.  Have some signals been removed, or do they just go dark in CBTC operation?

Also it looked like the 36th st homeball was slow to clear and delayed us a bit. Is that a regular occurrence until the bugs are worked out? To my knowledge there was no train ahead of us. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by RestrictOnTheHanger

[RTOMan]

14 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Some question for those in the know. I rode the from Roosevelt to Manhattan, and saw fewer (former) automatic signals active west of Roosevelt and in the 53rd st tube while looking out the RFW.  Have some signals been removed, or do they just go dark in CBTC operation?

Also it looked like the 36th st homeball was slow to clear and delayed us a bit. Is that a regular occurrence until the bugs are worked out? To my knowledge there was no train ahead of us. 

Lots of Signals was removed yes...

Its a glitch if there was a Fox going over the switch it takes a min or two for CBTC to ID the train then give the proper line up...

[bobtehpanda]

On 6/10/2021 at 7:56 PM, R10 2952 said:

The MTA has had a shitty approach to signal equipment maintenance for years, just look at their repair backlog.  Would not be surprised if their myopic attitude has carried over to the new system as well.

IIRC at least some of the headache from the CBTC (not sure about the ) was because of the integration with the wayside signalling.

If you have a fancy new computer it means jack shit if your internet is still through some crappy rat chewed phone line.

[Jericho]

On 6/14/2021 at 10:12 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Some question for those in the know. I rode the from Roosevelt to Manhattan, and saw fewer (former) automatic signals active west of Roosevelt and in the 53rd st tube while looking out the RFW.  Have some signals been removed, or do they just go dark in CBTC operation?

Also it looked like the 36th st homeball was slow to clear and delayed us a bit. Is that a regular occurrence until the bugs are worked out? To my knowledge there was no train ahead of us. 

So far it looks like they have been covered up and their stop arms removed.

Towers still control the interlockings manually. Even then, something happened to the route request function between Roosevelt and 36 St/Queens Plaza as they cannot identify trains. Train operators have been told to give call letters to Queensboro.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

19 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Lots of Signals was removed yes...

Its a glitch if there was a Fox going over the switch it takes a min or two for CBTC to ID the train then give the proper line up...

@RTOMan thanks, I always enjoy reading your posts and appreciate that you post on here, makes the forum a good place. 

3 hours ago, Jericho said:

So far it looks like they have been covered up and their stop arms removed.

Towers still control the interlockings manually. Even then, something happened to the route request function between Roosevelt and 36 St/Queens Plaza as they cannot identify trains. Train operators have been told to give call letters to Queensboro.

Thanks. It was dark and hard to see. When you say the route request function, I'm assuming it's a CBTC function and not the punch box at Roosevelt? 

[RTOMan]

4 hours ago, Jericho said:

Towers still control the interlockings manually. Even then, something happened to the route request function between Roosevelt and 36 St/Queens Plaza as they cannot identify trains. Train operators have been told to give call letters to Queensboro.

Not all the time, went through yesterday Both trips The diverging Line Up showed on my TOD even before i got to 36th street..

That is how its supposed to work, come around the bend there's yer line up...

[RTOMan]

1 hour ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

@RTOMan thanks, I always enjoy reading your posts and appreciate that you post on here, makes the forum a good place. 

4 hours ago, Jericho said:

You are welcome glad to be of help here....

[Jericho]

7 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Thanks. It was dark and hard to see. When you say the route request function, I'm assuming it's a CBTC function and not the punch box at Roosevelt? 

Yes, I meant the punch box. We are required to punch at Roosevelt for Queensboro to know who we are and so we can fly past 36 St. It stopped working last week and as of Sunday, the punch box at 36 St/Queens Plaza still remained dark and we were told to give call letters to Queensboro to identify ourselves.

 

6 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Not all the time, went through yesterday Both trips The diverging Line Up showed on my TOD even before i got to 36th street..

That is how its supposed to work, come around the bend there's yer line up...

If they fixed it since Sunday, that's great. It was annoying slowing down.

Keep in mind, when we punch at 75th and Roosevelt, that's for Continental and Queensboro to know who we are. So unless RCC has now taken control away from the towers, it's not automatic yet.

[Calvin]

From what I've noticed on Queens Blvd, most of the Siemens R160s are on the  and  lines. The  , does use the Siemens units but not a lot compared to the  and  . 

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

7 hours ago, Jericho said:

Yes, I meant the punch box. We are required to punch at Roosevelt for Queensboro to know who we are and so we can fly past 36 St. It stopped working last week and as of Sunday, the punch box at 36 St/Queens Plaza still remained dark and we were told to give call letters to Queensboro to identify ourselves.

Interesting. Thanks for your insight @Jericho

[RTOMan]

18 hours ago, Jericho said:

Keep in mind, when we punch at 75th and Roosevelt, that's for Continental and Queensboro to know who we are. So unless RCC has now taken control away from the towers, it's not automatic yet.

They have it in a Bulletin that they do not use the ATS workstation to give line ups...

Its still done via Towers still..

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:23 PM, N6 Limited said:

I want to see 50MPH  Express trains from Lexington Ave to Union Turnpike, lets go CBTC!

Will they still have CTL conga line on the  ? or will they allow CBTC Relays without fumigation? 

 

Faster trains means less running time, which means less pay for each crew. TWU would never go along with that.

[Around the Horn]

12 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Faster trains means less running time, which means less pay for each crew. TWU would never go along with that.

It's really bold to keep repeating this nonsense after three years of speed increases throughout the system ever since Byford first arrived.

The SPEED unit and Save Safe Seconds very much result in faster trains and CBTC is no different.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

9 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

It's really bold to keep repeating this nonsense after three years of speed increases throughout the system ever since Byford first arrived.

The SPEED unit and Save Safe Seconds very much result in faster trains and CBTC is no different.

 

And it makes no sense that TWU hasn't filed a grievance citing loss of pay (the way they had their lawyer sue to stop the 14th Street busway). 

[bobtehpanda]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

And it makes no sense that TWU hasn't filed a grievance citing loss of pay (the way they had their lawyer sue to stop the 14th Street busway). 

That lawsuit presumably didn't actually work, so doing the same thing and expecting different results would be a waste of time.

There's also the fact that, at least from what I've gathered anecdotally from being here, the operators find timers just as, if not more annoying, than regular riders do, because they can actually be penalized for violating them.

Edited June 18, 2021 by bobtehpanda

[RTOMan]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:22 AM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Faster trains means less running time, which means less pay for each crew. TWU would never go along with that.

Thats the Gag CBTC along the Korridor just places trains closer together.. 

Dose not speed them Up...

Before CBTC you can do 40 from Roosevelt to those timers just north of 36th street on 3 track.. CBTC only allows it in certain spots..

After those timers at Elmhurst you can do basically as fast as the train allows to CTL...

When CBTC is effect you are doing about 25 mph coming into the station on 4 track.. 

Right now everyone is in BYPASS from Roosevelt to CTL all four tracks anyway both directions...

[Jericho]

5 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

And it makes no sense that TWU hasn't filed a grievance citing loss of pay (the way they had their lawyer sue to stop the 14th Street busway). 

It makes perfect sense as the grievance would be denied. Plenty of jobs already have had their time cut including the L. Queens CBTC lines will be no different.

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Thats the Gag CBTC along the Korridor just places trains closer together.. 

Dose not speed them Up...

Before CBTC you can do 40 from Roosevelt to those timers just north of 36th street on 3 track.. CBTC only allows it in certain spots..

After those timers at Elmhurst you can do basically as fast as the train allows to CTL...

When CBTC is effect you are doing about 25 mph coming into the station on 4 track.. 

Right now everyone is in BYPASS from Roosevelt to CTL all four tracks anyway both directions...

You must operate during rush hour. There's parts where you can go up to 47-48 and I've entered CTL on 4 at 30-35. It's all about threading the red line.

Edit: The best change I definitely like is going up the hill on 4 from Woodhaven to 67th Ave at 48 and only slowing down to 42 at the top as oppose to maybe 32 in bypass.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Jericho

[Around the Horn]

14 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

And it makes no sense that TWU hasn't filed a grievance citing loss of pay (the way they had their lawyer sue to stop the 14th Street busway). 

That lawsuit was in a personal capacity because he lived around the corner and had nothing to do with TWU (who actually supported the busway)

[Trainmaster5]

On 6/18/2021 at 12:40 PM, RTOMan said:

Thats the Gag CBTC along the Korridor just places trains closer together.. 

Dose not speed them Up...

Before CBTC you can do 40 from Roosevelt to those timers just north of 36th street on 3 track.. CBTC only allows it in certain spots..

After those timers at Elmhurst you can do basically as fast as the train allows to CTL...

When CBTC is effect you are doing about 25 mph coming into the station on 4 track.. 

Right now everyone is in BYPASS from Roosevelt to CTL all four tracks anyway both directions...

It’s always amazing, at least to me, that so many people misunderstand what CBTC is supposed to do. When the subject was broached to some of us in the A division we pointed out the obvious things we encountered during the PM rush northbound from Brooklyn. The CBTC system in conjunction with the ATS overlay was supposed to allow trains to run closer together, period. The signal system in place at that time was not a limitation on train spacing heading from Brooklyn to points north. The only limit was the amount of trains and ridership involved. I literally followed my leader from either Utica, Franklin, or Bowling Green every day for years. I remember telling my rabbi and another Supt. from O&P that whomever sat in the room while this was proposed without questioning the premise as it pertained to the IRT Lexington line should have been bitch slapped and their bank accounts investigated by the prosecutor, Federal and local. I mentioned going to the Village Voice, too, but calmer folks spoke to me about it. It seems that many supporters ended up retiring from NYCT, were shuffled around in-house, or became consultants. The two gentlemen that I mentioned would ride with me, one to Grand Central, and the other to East 180 or Dyre almost daily. They knew that my  motorman friend on the  would leave the Bridge with us, beat us to Union Square, and pull into Grand Central with me most of the time. Somehow some forum posters have the impression that CBTC speeds up service. It doesn’t and it wasn’t given as a benefit when I was first made aware of it. Timers, train traffic, passenger load and terminal capacity are the real restraints in my opinion. . Without a wholesale rebuild of the signal system in lower Manhattan from Bowling Green n/b I, personally, can’t see a CBTC installation taking place until north of the Brooklyn Bridge station. There’s a space between Fulton and the Bridge that might hold one train. My take. Carry on.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Trainmaster5

[Lawrence St]

Um, is it safe to be riding on QBL trains with all these issues I keep hearing about? At least once for the past 4 weeks there's been some type of mass signal malfunction that basically shut down the whole line.