MTA Spells Out Service Cuts for Express Bus Service

[Lil 57]

23 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That wouldn't be a smart thing to do. Lindenwood is where a good portion of the off-peak QM15 ridership comes from. Eliminate that portion, and you lose those riders. 

I can't think of another way to combine the two routes. Guess the BM5 is going to be peak hours only then.

BTW what other express bus routes can you combine in order to save a bus route from being cut?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

49 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

I can't think of another way to combine the two routes. Guess the BM5 is going to be peak hours only then.

BTW what other express bus routes can you combine in order to save a bus route from being cut?

What do you mean? It'll just be such a bus going via Lindenwood on its way to/from Manhattan. Not saying I agree with it, but it can be done.

[Lil 57]

18 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

What do you mean? It'll just be such a bus going via Lindenwood on its view to/from Manhattan. Not saying I agree with it, but it can be done.

Maybe have some buses serve Lindenwood peak-hours.

 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

25 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Maybe have some buses serve Lindenwood peak-hours.

 

There's no reason to combine service during peak hours. The BM5 carries during the peak hours. It's just that the off-peak buses aren't doing so well. They used to do decent, but the weekend tunnel closures actually contributed to a steep decline on some of the later inbound trips (which were the ones which used to do the best). Ideally, the QM15 should be left alone and the existing QM15 riders should continue to get their service both peak and off-peak. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[Brillant93]

I feel like for certain parts of the city off peak express service aren’t doing great because sometimes people can get to their destinations faster via bus and train. I sometimes take the BM1 home if I had a long day out in the city and don’t want to stand on the train. But to me if I had to wait 30 minutes for one bus and and hour and a half for to get home I’m not going to invest my time into an express bus. I could spend cheaper money on the bus and train and get home in 50 minutes. It’s more so the timing that maybe the seller but so far it isn’t working. 

[Jdog14]

10 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I feel like for certain parts of the city off peak express service aren’t doing great because sometimes people can get to their destinations faster via bus and train. I sometimes take the BM1 home if I had a long day out in the city and don’t want to stand on the train. But to me if I had to wait 30 minutes for one bus and and hour and a half for to get home I’m not going to invest my time into an express bus. I could spend cheaper money on the bus and train and get home in 50 minutes. It’s more so the timing that maybe the seller but so far it isn’t working. 

 

The whole point of express service is to have a more comfortable ride and reduce transfers. 

[Brillant93]

14 minutes ago, Jdog14 said:

 

The whole point of express service is to have a more comfortable ride and reduce transfers. 

But what’s the point of being comfortable and not transferring as much if I have to wait an extensive amount of time for a bus? I’m going to use a quicker and cheaper alternative.

[Jdog14]

3 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

But what’s the point of being comfortable and not transferring as much if I have to wait an extensive amount of time for a bus? I’m going to use a quicker and cheaper alternative.

 

As someone who uses express buses here and there sometimes there are days when I don't want to put up with the people on the subway or don't mind having a empty bus to sit on going home. 

 

The express bus also may serve you better during the rush because typically thats when they are used more. Off peak you don't have people coming out of work going home. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Sure, Mr. Irick can say that demographic change have caused a 29% decrease in service, but let's not act like that's the sole reason for the drop. Where's the reliability stats, Mr Irick???

Express bus service has been so unreliable and prone to consistent cuts, that riders are not going to resort to use them. This is especially true on the SC bus routes, where I fear some of the more drastic changes will occur. Of course, I feel that every borough save Staten Island will feel the impacts. 

He actually makes it sound OH SO SIMPLE... It’s all about how few people are riding, but never mind the fact of how many misses buses we STILL see. I told Mr. Byford and Mr. Irick tonight that Staten Island received a service cut that is essentially still in affect because they STILL cannot meet their scheduled service. Talk about getting the basics right.... Not...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Brillant93 said:

But what’s the point of being comfortable and not transferring as much if I have to wait an extensive amount of time for a bus? I’m going to use a quicker and cheaper alternative.

You are seeing express bus service at its worst. It wasn’t always like this and this is why express bus ridership is down. Sure there were times when service wasn’t great, but now it’s become a daily thing where service is slow. I can count the times on one hand when my express bus drops me off and I’m in my office early now compared to the schedules, and yes that is a problem. That said, the subways aren’t much better, so when you say cheaper and faster, you really mean cheaper and not as slow, because I have had to cancel a number of important things because of piss poor subway service just within Manhattan.

[P3F]

18 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You are seeing express bus service at its worst. It wasn’t always like this and this is why express bus ridership is down. Sure there were times when service wasn’t great, but now it’s become a daily thing where service is slow. I can count the times on one hand when my express bus drops me off and I’m in my office early now compared to the schedules, and yes that is a problem. That said, the subways aren’t much better, so when you say cheaper and faster, you really mean cheaper and not as slow, because I have had to cancel a number of important things because of piss poor subway service just within Manhattan.

Sometimes subways are indeed faster. Compare the travel times on the and BM3 in the areas that they both serve.

That being said, is there any news on what's happening to the BM3 and 4 in these cuts?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

31 minutes ago, P3F said:

Sometimes subways are indeed faster. Compare the travel times on the and BM3 in the areas that they both serve.

That being said, is there any news on what's happening to the BM3 and 4 in these cuts?

Well the BMs are indeed slower and that’s because the agency has them doing too much. Look at what the BM3 has to do. It spends most of its time on local streets. Ocean Avenue is SLOW even off peak because the lights aren’t synced despite the bus actually making that many stops along Ocean, and then it has a looonnnnggg loop to try to serve all of the subway starved areas of Sheepshead Bay. The crazy thing is it was even worse before they “streamlined” it.

The BM3 and BM4 will more than likely lose their off-peak and Saturday service and become peak routes only.  I don’t see anything else happening. The amount of service reductions is something like $20 million PLUS. That is A LOT of service that will be cut. Here are the lines that will likely be peak only:

-BM1, BM2, BM3, BM4, BM5 - Spring Creek Depot really will not be able to fight this because they gave up a lot in the last contract and so they don’t have much of a leg to stand on.

I wrote up a express bus network review for the  so I know very well which lines have lost a TON of ridership, and the BMs fall under that. Between the HORRIBLE and unreliable service that riders received for years, plus the demographic changes, the damage has been done. 

Other lines:

QM20, BxM4, QM4 for sure. BxM3 may be a candidate also. It has lost a lot of ridership due to changing demographics and also unreliable service.

-QM2 may lose weekend service. Not totally sure but I could see them targeting that area. QM5 and QM6 should be fine, but the QM5 may also lose service.

You have to look at how much monies will be slashed from service. They may also try to get rid of the QM1/31. I see everything on the table. I also wouldn’t count out the BxM18 either. They wanted to get rid of it years ago but kept it. 

QM21 service outside of the rush will also go IMO.

[67thAve]

13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's not just that.  There are NO service cuts proposed for MNRR or LIRR riders.

Now that's one hell of a surprise... and one stupid maneuver! It surprises me that the MTA would rather cut reasonably well-patronized express bus services in New York City rather than, for instance, various mid-day and weekend trains that get low ridership (for instance, the 10:46 outbound from Valley Stream to West Hempstead, which I have used, is a six-car consist... but I've never seen more than five passengers aboard at the same time on the damned thing).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, 67thAve said:

Now that's one hell of a surprise... and one stupid maneuver! It surprises me that the MTA would rather cut reasonably well-patronized express bus services in New York City rather than, for instance, various mid-day and weekend trains that get low ridership (for instance, the 10:46 outbound from Valley Stream to West Hempstead, which I have used, is a six-car consist... but I've never seen more than five passengers aboard at the same time on the damned thing).

I don’t want to propose anyone’s service getting cut, but my point to the board by commenting how MNRR and LIRR see NO service cuts is that everyone should share the pain in this and that isn’t the case. MNRR and LIRR is quite expensive to provide too (heavily subsidized), and trust me those trains aren’t all full. I ride several trains that have very light ridership, but that’s to be expected because that’s what happens with all forms of transit and you provide it to grow ridership over time and to give people options. In my case I will have options and believe me I’m aware of that, but there are people that won’t and they’ll take some other option and stop using transit entirely. When you have people resigned with this as is, it shows how bad things are.

[Q101viaSteinway]

12 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

There's no reason to combine service during peak hours. The BM5 carries during the peak hours. It's just that the off-peak buses aren't doing so well. They used to do decent, but the weekend tunnel closures actually contributed to a steep decline on some of the later inbound trips (which were the ones which used to do the best). Ideally, the QM15 should be left alone and the existing QM15 riders should continue to get their service both peak and off-peak. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

12 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Maybe have some buses serve Lindenwood peak-hours.

 

 

12 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

What do you mean? It'll just be such a bus going via Lindenwood on its way to/from Manhattan. Not saying I agree with it, but it can be done.

 

12 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I can't think of another way to combine the two routes. Guess the BM5 is going to be peak hours only then.

BTW what other express bus routes can you combine in order to save a bus route from being cut?

I have very high doubts that there will be any off peak QM15 or BM5 service. I think only weekday off peak and weekend QM or BM express bus will be QM5 and QM6. If any weekend or off peak service will stay, I have good feeling it will be more of the BxM routes. Some BxM buses like BxM1, BxM2, BxM7, BxM9, BxM10 have good off peak and weekend ridership, that is much better than any QM or BM bus. 

[Lil 57]

40 minutes ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

I have very high doubts that there will be any off-peak QM15 or BM5 service. I think the only weekday off-peak and weekend QM or BM express bus will be QM5 and QM6. If any weekend or off-peak service will stay, I have good feeling it will be more of the BxM routes. Some BxM buses like BxM1, BxM2, BxM7, BxM9, BxM10 have good off-peak and weekend ridership, that is much better than any QM or BM bus. 

 

I also think that the  should introduce off-peak service to corridors that could make more money. For example, the QM4/44 corridor has 678 average weekday riders and runs all day. Meanwhile, the QM24/34 corridor has 1,097 average weekday riders, and if you add the QM25 (379 average weekday riders) that's a total of 1,476 average weekday riders, more than double the ridership of the QM4/44 corridor and the QM24/25/34 routes only run during peak hours. The ridership on the QM24, QM25 and QM34 routes have also been increasing in the last few years while the QM4/44 ridership is decreasing. I believe that if the QM24 ran off-peak it could get good ridership throughout that day.

The QM24/34 is the 9th busiest  Bus express route in terms of weekday ridership while the QM4/44 is the 16th and the QM6/36 is the 11th. Makes no sense why the QM24 isn't running off-peak if much lower ridership routes can run off-peak.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don’t want to propose anyone’s service getting cut, but my point to the board by commenting how MNRR and LIRR see NO service cuts is that everyone should share the pain in this and that isn’t the case. MNRR and LIRR is quite expensive to provide too (heavily subsidized), and trust me those trains aren’t all full. I ride several trains that have very light ridership, but that’s to be expected because that’s what happens with all forms of transit and you provide it to grow ridership over time and to give people options. In my case I will have options and believe me I’m aware of that, but there are people that won’t and they’ll take some other option and stop using transit entirely. When you have people resigned with this as is, it shows how bad things are.

It's amazing how both LIRR and Metro-North are only cutting operational costs through means that don't include service cuts. I listened to the LIRR and MNRR presidents explain how they would cut expenses, and they were basically optimizing positions throughout the system and decelerating original expected growth of certain positions. If we only had that way of thinking here with our buses. 

43 minutes ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

I have very high doubts that there will be any off peak QM15 or BM5 service. I think only weekday off peak and weekend QM or BM express bus will be QM5 and QM6. If any weekend or off peak service will stay, I have good feeling it will be more of the BxM routes. Some BxM buses like BxM1, BxM2, BxM7, BxM9, BxM10 have good off peak and weekend ridership, that is much better than any QM or BM bus. 

Ridership alone isn't a good metric to use, since that doesn't actually say much. Riders per bus is slightly better. For example, the QM15 ridership was growing (before the weekend tunnel closures), and the amount of riders per bus wasn't too bad (better than some of the full time routes as well), mainly due to the fewer trips provided. I don't disagree though that the MTA would look into cutring the most express bus service as possible. Although, I wonder where those people are going to fit should that happen. 

[paulrivera]

17 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the BxM6/BxM10 combo makes its way into those service cuts.

The BxM6C? Nah, they're waiting on the borough redesign for that one.

I saw these cuts coming for about a couple of months. They said at a previous board meeting that they targeted cost savings of about $20 million from cutting express bus service over the next 2 years. You don't save $20 million without some serious cuts.

40 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Ridership alone isn't a good metric to use, since that doesn't actually say much. Riders per bus is slightly better. For example, the QM15 ridership was growing (before the weekend tunnel closures), and the amount of riders per bus wasn't too bad (better than some of the full time routes as well), mainly due to the fewer trips provided. I don't disagree though that the MTA would look into cutring the most express bus service as possible. Although, I wonder where those people are going to fit should that happen. 

The  wants every seat filled (express buses) / 125% (local bus/subway) loading guidelines within NYC limits. So, when everything's running right, having about 10 or 20 standees per vehicle with a $3 fare will be the norm, while having all 50 seats filled on the express bus at all hours.

Of course, when everything's as unreliable as it is now, you won't have the excess capacity to absorb any delays, so now you'll have even more crushloaded buses and trains if your ride is so much as 2 minutes behind schedule. This will start driving even more people away (especially the VG8's of the world, where people with higher incomes can use Uber or even drive into work), then more service gets cut, and eventually the  bus system in particular will need to be privatized out of necessity because they won't be running any buses anymore.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

It's amazing how both LIRR and Metro-North are only cutting operational costs through means that don't include service cuts. I listened to the LIRR and MNRR presidents explain how they would cut expenses, and they were basically optimizing positions throughout the system and decelerating original expected growth of certain positions. If we only had that way of thinking here with our buses. 

Ms. Metzger (MNRR) and Mr. Pally (LIRR) know the deal.  I can tell you that there are plenty of lightly used trains because I use them off-peak and weekends, but Ms. Metzger gets it.  Metro-North has done an EXCELLENT job of marketing service and getting people that can afford it like myself to dive in and use it.  Most of my trips are a pleasure. Nice quiet car. They've been working on putting in new seats.  Cars are relatively clean. There are a few minor things that could be improved like the electronic signage and announcements, but overall it's still a very good ride save when there is inclement weather here and there.  Over time they know that when you provide good service, those lightly used cars will eventually fill up more and more.  

32 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

The BxM6C? Nah, they're waiting on the borough redesign for that one.

I saw these cuts coming for about a couple of months. They said at a previous board meeting that they targeted cost savings of about $20 million from cutting express bus service over the next 2 years. You don't save $20 million without some serious cuts.

The  wants every seat filled (express buses) / 125% (local bus/subway) loading guidelines within NYC limits. So, when everything's running right, having about 10 or 20 standees per vehicle with a $3 fare will be the norm, while having all 50 seats filled on the express bus at all hours.

Of course, when everything's as unreliable as it is now, you won't have the excess capacity to absorb any delays, so now you'll have even more crushloaded buses and trains if your ride is so much as 2 minutes behind schedule. This will start driving even more people away (especially the VG8's of the world, where people with higher incomes can use Uber or even drive into work), then more service gets cut, and eventually the  bus system in particular will need to be privatized out of necessity because they won't be running any buses anymore.

This is precisely my concern.  While I advocate for express bus service, I have to admit that I have been using Uber more and more for my work meetings and I have two coming up next week where I will do just that.  I charge the client and I hop in to and from so what do I care.  Those are subway rides and express bus rides that the  loses.  Mr. Irick tried to blame changing demographics as the sole purpose.  I didn't even touch upon that last night because I was so furious, but my main points were clearly communicated through my sarcasm.

[paulrivera]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Over time they know that when you provide good service, those lightly used cars will eventually fill up more and more.  

Absolutely. After a while, it’s going to be more and more viable for us Bronx folks to go to the freaking Palisades *in ROCKLAND COUNTY* via mass transit (empty Metro-North train to an empty Hudson Link bus) than it is to go to the Bay Plaza in your own borough (packed to the gills  train to a sardine can of a Bx12 bus.)

[B35 via Church]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's not just that.  There are NO service cuts proposed for MNRR or LIRR riders, PLUS they're capping their fares, but no caps for express bus riders who live in transportation deserts. Disgusting.  They don't want to build subways in the outer boroughs because those are too expensive, so they provided express bus service instead and then they complain that it's too expensive to run, so essentially people in the outer boroughs aren't supposed to have decent transportation.... You can't make this **** up...

They'll always be reluctant to cutting train service over bus service.... Bus service is the easier scapegoat & always will be.

I looked at (part of) that YT clip & are reading this whole thread with a smirk on my face..... Not because of anyone here, but at this entire situation being presented here....

I've been saying this for the longest and'll parrot it once again - NYC will be the downfall of NYC & I don't want to be around here when that happens.... People have a tendency to take public transit for granted & the MTA on top of it aint doing all so hot in spurring its usage... I'm sorry, but SBS, Atlantic Ticket, and that LIRR Summer Saturdays promotion bit, aint enough.....

20 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Sure, Mr. Irick can say that demographic change have caused a 29% decrease in service, but let's not act like that's the sole reason for the drop. Where's the reliability stats, Mr Irick???

For lack of a better word, the premise of demographic changes as it pertains to the problem at hand here, is horse shit.... It's nothing more than a feeble excuse to justify cutting service city-wide.

He makes it sound like those that previously utilized the expresses in higher numbers in years past all just up & left the city - and in its place, a wave of newcomers here that outright refuse to take express buses.... That would be a f***ing delusional way to try to paint a significant enough a cause of ridership losses on express buses..... COMPLETE absolving of itself as to why people are using public transit (in general, incl. express buses) in lesser numbers....

19 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

NYC is slowly turning into a car dependent city.

I don't wholly disagree, but I believe the model is, and has always been, to turn this city into a subway dependent one..... Much to their chagrin, the subways are going through its own separate set of problems, which are having riders having to endure (or have also given up on, due to) reliability decreases on that end of the spectrum as well.....

19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That means that the following lines will likely be proposed:

BM1, BM2, BM3, BM4, BM5, BxM3, BxM4 and QM4 to name a few...

19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nothing would surprise me.  Looking at the amount of buses they plan on ordering, they plan on making SEVERE cuts.

...Which is why I don't believe they're looking to target any specific routes, per se...

18 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I don't see the first one happening, because ridership on both is relatively strong. The second one could end up happening.

17 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I can't think of another way to combine the two routes. Guess the BM5 is going to be peak hours only then.

BTW what other express bus routes can you combine in order to save a bus route from being cut?

I don't see any mergers of any sort happening, to be frank.... I get the impression that they eventually want to oust all MTA Bus express bus service during the off peak hours... Even the ones with quote-unquote good ridership....

3 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I also think that the  should introduce off-peak service to corridors that could make more money. For example, the QM4/44 corridor has 678 average weekday riders and runs all day. Meanwhile, the QM24/34 corridor has 1,097 average weekday riders, and if you add the QM25 (379 average weekday riders) that's a total of 1,476 average weekday riders, more than double the ridership of the QM4/44 corridor and the QM24/25/34 routes only run during peak hours. The ridership on the QM24, QM25 and QM34 routes have also been increasing in the last few years while the QM4/44 ridership is decreasing. I believe that if the QM24 ran off-peak it could get good ridership throughout that day.

The QM24/34 is the 9th busiest  Bus express route in terms of weekday ridership while the QM4/44 is the 16th and the QM6/36 is the 11th. Makes no sense why the QM24 isn't running off-peak if much lower ridership routes can run off-peak.

I get that it's an example, but with it, you're basically comparing the needs of Glendale/Maspeth/Middle Village to that of Electchester.... That's not how that works.

Quite frankly, certain community boards are more vocal than others when it comes to public transit....

Personally, I believe off-peak express service on the Qm25 would fall flat on its face..... The Midtown service (Qm24/34) I don't see as faring much better.... You would have to extend the catchment area of the Qm24/34 well past Glendale (to the east) to have any real legitimate shot of justifying its existence...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

They'll always be reluctant to cutting train service over bus service.... Bus service is the easier scapegoat & always will be.

I looked at (part of) that YT clip & are reading this whole thread with a smirk on my face..... Not because of anyone here, but at this entire situation being presented here....

I've been saying this for the longest and'll parrot it once again - NYC will be the downfall of NYC & I don't want to be around here when that happens.... People have a tendency to take public transit for granted & the MTA on top of it aint doing all so hot in spurring its usage... I'm sorry, but SBS, Atlantic Ticket, and that LIRR Summer Saturdays promotion bit, aint enough.....

For lack of a better word, the premise of demographic changes as it pertains to problem at hand here, is horse shit.... It's nothing more than a feeble excuse to justify cutting service city-wide.

He makes it sound like those that previously utilized the expresses in higher numbers in years past all just up & left the city - and in its place, a wave of newcomers here that outright refuse to take express buses.... That would be a f***ing delusional way to try to paint a significant enough a cause of ridership losses on express buses..... COMPLETE absolving of itself as to why people are using public transit (in general, incl. express buses) in lesser numbers....

I don't wholly disagree, but I believe the model is, and has always been, to turn this city into a subway dependent one..... Much to their chagrin, the subways are going through its own separate set of problems, which are having riders having to endure (or have also given up on, due to) reliability decreases on that end of the spectrum as well.....

So yeah, ultimately, it's slowing turning to a car dependent city by force (as in, indirectly)..... I'll use myself as an example - It's not that I want to drive back & forth b/w Mineola & smack in the middle of Brooklyn 5 days a week....

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, the only problem with turning the City into a subway dependent one is we haven't had any new subways or extensions in the outer boroughs in ages, so as I've said before... The  wants to leave us with NOTHING. NO express bus service, NO subways... Nothing... I told my contacts today, that simply won't wash.  The City and the  must provide express bus service to areas that are transportation deserts because we all know subways are too expensive to build in the outer boroughs.

[Lil 57]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Personally, I believe off-peak express service on the Qm25 would fall flat on its face..... The Midtown service (Qm24/34) I don't see as faring much better.... You would have to extend the catchment area of the Qm24/34 well past Glendale (to the east) to have any real legitimate shot of justifying its existence...

In this plan, only the QM24 would run off-peak.

I thought that Maspeth/Glendale/Middle Village wanted more express service saying the alot of the local buses operate on long headways off-peak (think Q67) and with the  train shut down coming up,  trains are going to be packed. If anything, the QM24 could be extended to Jamaica via Myrtle Ave off-peak but that's about it. One thing I do know is that an off-peak QM24 would preform way better than an off-peak BM4, BM5 and most likely preform better than the QM4 off-peak.

The BM5 and BM4 are definitely being axed off-peak since ridership is very, very low off-peak. (Both have Saturday ridership in the double digits and less than a full bus rides the BM4 on Saturdays.) Let's use those resources to have a much more profitable route run off-peak.

Another idea I have is to have the QM4/5/6 buses start dropping off/stop picking up at the QCM off-peak. That could pick up ridership on those routes. That area of Queens Blvd only has peak service but on buses run in that area just to not stop.

The QM4 could also serve Fresh Meadows off-peak via Jewel/73 Aves and up 188th St while the QM5 would skip that area all times.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

22 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

In this plan, only the QM24 would run off-peak.

I thought that Maspeth/Glendale/Middle Village wanted more express service saying the alot of the local buses operate on long headways off-peak (think Q67) and with the  train shut down coming up,  trains are going to be packed. If anything, the QM24 could be extended to Jamaica via Myrtle Ave off-peak but that's about it. One thing I do know is that an off-peak QM24 would preform way better than an off-peak BM4, BM5 and most likely preform better than the QM4 off-peak.

The BM5 and BM4 are definitely being axed off-peak since ridership is very, very low off-peak. (Both have Saturday ridership in the double digits and less than a full bus rides the BM4 on Saturdays.) Let's use those resources to have a much more profitable route run off-peak.

Another idea I have is to have the QM4/5/6 buses start dropping off/stop picking up at the QCM off-peak. That could pick up ridership on those routes. That area of Queens Blvd only has peak service but on buses run in that area just to not stop.

The QM4 could also serve Fresh Meadows off-peak via Jewel/73 Aves and up 188th St while the QM5 would skip that area all times.

The QM4 is gone IMO. I already suggested that proposal to the MTA about extending it in my proposalsand even some riders agree with me about it extending it along Queens Blvd. I've been riding the QM4 a lot and the ridership just isn't there. At best I've seen 10 people tops going back to Electchester, so I'd be shocked to see it still around on weekends.  The only thing that I could see keeping it around is that it runs through Kew Gardens Hills which is rather tony, so those people may make enough of a stink and have political clout to keep it.

[Lil 57]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The QM4 is gone IMO. I already suggested that proposal to the MTA about extending it in my proposalsand even some riders agree with me about it extending it along Queens Blvd. I've been riding the QM4 a lot and the ridership just isn't there. At best I've seen 10 people tops going back to Electchester, so I'd be shocked to see it still around on weekends.  The only thing that I could see keeping it around is that it runs through Kew Gardens Hills which is rather tony, so those people may make enough of a stink and have political clout to keep it.

I can also see the QM5 "super express" trips being converted into QM1 super express Trips. The QM5 super express buses take longer than the regular QM5 due to them having to serve Fresh Meadows.