Why Your Subway Train Might Start Moving Faster

[RR503]

5 hours ago, Jsunflyguy said:

You seem miffed by why T/Os wouldn't take a statement like that seriously during PR spin season, while simultaneously lamenting Operators for not essentially running at the same signals that have been burning people for...at this point literally a generation on blind faith. Doesn't strike me as moderate to think that Operators  will change on a dime.

I really am not, and I do apologize for being unclear. When I said "but with RTO culture being as impermeable as it is....well, at least the thought is there" I was referring to the tendency of TSSs to not follow applicable rules, not the tendency of TOs to react rationally to a toxic discipline culture. 

5 hours ago, Jsunflyguy said:

Source?

One could point to a large portion of the rule book that was written in lawsuits, close calls and blood from the good ole days. I'd be careful calling it quality operation considering the positive benefits were obtained under circumstances that no longer extant so assigning a comparison 'good operations' between then and now won't lead to a fair or accurate discussion. As to individual quality amongst peers that again goes back to what you could get away with rather than individual skill, in the good ole days pulling a door panel off wasn't a 5 minute ordeal now, so the same minor infractions get amplified making quality appear lower (as well as the IND operating underlength trains for a portion of that time making said overruns less likely to begin with). 

If you look at throughput numbers over the years (NYMTC, older capacity studies), or read old timer's posts/talk to them, you'll notice in the first data set, higher delivered capacity, and in the second, a seeming greater attention to what is best to do in certain areas, and a greater knowledge of the ins and outs of train operation and their territory. A lot of this seemingly has to do with 'reforms' made to schoolcar in the intervening years.

As to the distinction between quality and laxness, that's a good point, but I take it you do see how more aggressive train operation anticipating less discipline helps capacity in key areas. Maybe quality was the wrong word. 

5 hours ago, Jsunflyguy said:

I'll assume you're explaining you're explaining STs and Control lines for the sake of the audience.

Yup! 

5 hours ago, Jsunflyguy said:

The best practice at 42nd is predicated on waiting for the first of several STs to turn yellow before running into the station when you've just caught up to someone out of nowhere in this instance odds are low that there is a train behind you as you'll have had a clear run up until that point. So this would be the 1/10 circumstance we're encountering. Waiting for the first yellow before wrapping it up towards the rest of the STs may cost a few seconds, but likely there's no one close behind you for the reasons previously stated and if the ST is taking longer than usual to clear still boils down to the train ahead having a higher than normal dwell which is a possible indication of a problem which is very reasonable since the station in question is the sight of the majority of customer injuries/incidents/accidents in the entire system, the wisdom of taking the first ST for a +3 second advantage balanced against tanking the entire local line isn't a good trade.

I don't know whether I agree with your assumptions about follower distance. If you're running up on your leader during the off peak, sure, but during the peak you totally could have someone close on your tail. That's the essence of the conga lines that develop there and reduce Lex capacity.

As for the issue of benefit, it's worth noting that a few seconds on a 27tph railroad will lose you a train per hour, which increases crowding, increasing dwell times, etc etc etc. Once again, I'll defer to those with more granular stats and to those who can do risk calcs here, and I really do agree with you that discretion in those "leader is taking forever" situations is important, but all the same, I think that at least from an academic viewpoint, it's worth being aware of the costs of not using ST. 

[Jsunflyguy]

All fair points, as far as the scenario in questiin the advice given by Trainmaster during the Rush its rather difficult to catch someone naturally. As you would expect dwell times will increase as the gap between intervals increases so once the distance opens you find yourself in the negative feedback loop making up time is a struggle during our rush and it should be the same for the Subway. as such the only way to catch up is for your leader is for them to lose time (usually for a reason) so your follower is probably at or leaving 59th st so isn't right behind you just yet. But yes waiting for STs to clear is generally a hit to the capacity.

[RR503]

8 hours ago, Jsunflyguy said:

All fair points, as far as the scenario in questiin the advice given by Trainmaster during the Rush its rather difficult to catch someone naturally. As you would expect dwell times will increase as the gap between intervals increases so once the distance opens you find yourself in the negative feedback loop making up time is a struggle during our rush and it should be the same for the Subway. as such the only way to catch up is for your leader is for them to lose time (usually for a reason) so your follower is probably at or leaving 59th st so isn't right behind you just yet. But yes waiting for STs to clear is generally a hit to the capacity.

Yeah. One of the reasons I harp on things like this is that operator variability around stations is a really, really common gap generator when you have a confident op taking the STs  while someone else holds back. Given that we seem completely incapable of getting dwell times into something vaguely evocative of international norms (despite, mind you, having some pretty cool car equipment features like local recycle), STs are critical, and yet... 

To the point on 59, I'll of course defer to those who operate/ride through there on a daily basis, but it's always been my impression that a southbound from 59 will get a yellow from the train holding outside of the station at GC, will slow up, and then will essentially mirror its leader as it makes its way into GC. I always seem to be there when there's a good bit of congestion going, so again, dunno if this is universally applicable, but nevertheless my observation. 

[Union Tpke]

We want runtime estimates

Screen Shot 2019-07-19 at 3.39.28 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

[RR503]

19 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

We want runtime estimates

Screen Shot 2019-07-19 at 3.39.28 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

They need to stop using OTP as a surrogate for rider experience. Schedules are first and foremost organizational tools, so they’ve gotta reflect real world (here, crappy) conditions. That’s okay — so long as you provide some absolute metrics like runtime that show how service really runs. 

[Union Tpke]

New runtimes changes are out! I would love to see month to month changes.

IMG_6989 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

IMG_6992 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Speed limits will be increased at 40 locations in Q3.

https://new.mta.info/customercommitment/q3-2019

[Union Tpke]

@RR503 We’ve also corrected hundreds of slow-clearing signals and increased over 100 speed limits to speed up your commute. Now, we are beginning to work through signals that may require more intensive modifications.

[RR503]

47 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

@RR503 We’ve also corrected hundreds of slow-clearing signals and increased over 100 speed limits to speed up your commute. Now, we are beginning to work through signals that may require more intensive modifications.

I saw this earlier. If this means what it seems to mean, we’re really in business. 

[Union Tpke]

10 minutes ago, RR503 said:

I saw this earlier. If this means what it seems to mean, we’re really in business. 

How far could this go, and which timers could be removed?

[RedLine]

The GT35 on QBL at Elmhurst became a GT50.

[RR503]

40 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

How far could this go, and which timers could be removed?

The first answer is below your post (and there are others on QBL under much needed review). 

Generally, I’d imagine/hope they’ll prioritize the GTs with the biggest service impact, like Franklin-Atlantic  or the ones in Dekalb, or at least the ones where significant runtime gains could be realized. I think a lot will depend on cost, though. Even within signal mods, there’s a good sized gradation. Working with interlocked signals is a lot more $$$ than toying with IJs in a stretch of automatics. It’ll be interesting to see their budget. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by RR503

[Union Tpke]

50 minutes ago, RR503 said:

The first answer is below your post (and there are others on QBL under much needed review). 

Generally, I’d imagine/hope they’ll prioritize the GTs with the biggest service impact, like Franklin-Atlantic  or the ones in Dekalb, or at least the ones where significant runtime gains could be realized. I think a lot will depend on cost, though. Even within signal mods, there’s a good sized gradation. Working with interlocked signals is a lot more $$$ than toying with IJs in a stretch of automatics. It’ll be interesting to see their budget. 

Just imagine they had the money that went to ESI, that is going to Elmont station, to Third Track, and other vanity projects. If anyone wants to fight me on Third Track, we can have a discussion in the LIRR subforum.

[RR503]

29 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Just imagine they had the money that went to ESI, that is going to Elmont station, to Third Track, and other vanity projects. If anyone wants to fight me on Third Track, we can have a discussion in the LIRR subforum.

I'd actually love to see an investment analysis. As we all know, # of vehicles required to run a given service = avg. cycle time/peak headway. Take the  as an example. Roughly 4.5 min avg peak headway and 44 assigned trains gives an average cycle time of 198 mins or so. If you can take even 5% off that -- so get it to a 188m cycle time -- you just reduced your car equipment requirement by 2 trains, trains that can either save us from a service cut in times of budgetary strife, or be reinvested (if you will) into increased service elsewhere. And I would imagine the potential savings on most lines are well above 5%... 

Edited July 23, 2019 by RR503

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

2 hours ago, RedLine said:

The GT35 on QBL at Elmhurst became a GT50.

Which track and when? Havent been out on QBL since last week. 

[Jsunflyguy]

After this week I think they'll have to invest in these life expired signal components

 

[N6 Limited]

Hopefully they'll address CPW, have they done any improvements there?  I was on a downtown  last week that was just moping along .

Also, why does the northbound    have to slow down on straight track clear timer before pulling into Borough Hall?

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On QBL express, the curve west of 65th st on the Manhattan bound track had its speed limit raised from 35 to 43. The timer before Roosevelt Island has also been adjusted, but I didnt see a GT sign that would indicate a changed speed limit.  These locations are not on any list, I saw them out the front of an just now. 

[Union Tpke]

6 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

On QBL express, the curve west of 65th st on the Manhattan bound track had its speed limit raised from 35 to 43. The timer before Roosevelt Island has also been adjusted, but I didnt see a GT sign that would indicate a changed speed limit.  These locations are not on any list, I saw them out the front of an just now. 

Yes!

[Union Tpke]

@RR503 Is this where money for some of these improvements will come from or are these from the ops budget? UWB funding came out of this project.

http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/allframenew_head.html?PROJNUM=t7080338&PLTYPE=5&DISPLAYALL=Y

New York City Transit
 
Project:    T7080338    
Description:    Signal Technology Upgrades    
Category:    Signals & Communications    
Element:    Signal Modernization    
xxxxxxxxxx
...
This project is a budgetary reserve that will provide design and construction funding for individual signal technology upgrade projects.

[RR503]

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

@RR503 Is this where money for some of these improvements will come from or are these from the ops budget? UWB funding came out of this project.

http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/allframenew_head.html?PROJNUM=t7080338&PLTYPE=5&DISPLAYALL=Y

New York City Transit
 
Project:    T7080338    
Description:    Signal Technology Upgrades    
Category:    Signals & Communications    
Element:    Signal Modernization    
xxxxxxxxxx
...
This project is a budgetary reserve that will provide design and construction funding for individual signal technology upgrade projects.

I don’t know. I’d imagine they’d create a different item for any fixed block mods (UWB likely got to siphon because the Prince said so). 

[Union Tpke]

On 7/26/2019 at 8:04 AM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

On QBL express, the curve west of 65th st on the Manhattan bound track had its speed limit raised from 35 to 43. The timer before Roosevelt Island has also been adjusted, but I didnt see a GT sign that would indicate a changed speed limit.  These locations are not on any list, I saw them out the front of an just now. 

I saw the sign for 43 this morning and noticed the increase. I didn't notice anything at Roosevelt Island and did not see a sign.

[Union Tpke]

@RR503 I still saw the 35 after Roosevelt, the 36 at the beginning of Elmhurst, and the 35 at the end. My train, of R46s, needlessly went way below the MAX of 50 through 67th-likely going 30 or so, even though there were no trains in sight-all greens. The train sped through the beginning of 71st, but slowed half way through. My train got stopped at a double red at 75th Interlocking, which is rare, and there were no trains in front. After 4 minutes, we proceeded.

[RR503]

4 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

@RR503 I still saw the 35 after Roosevelt, the 36 at the beginning of Elmhurst, and the 35 at the end. My train, of R46s, needlessly went way below the MAX of 50 through 67th-likely going 30 or so, even though there were no trains in sight-all greens. The train sped through the beginning of 71st, but slowed half way through. My train got stopped at a double red at 75th Interlocking, which is rare, and there were no trains in front. After 4 minutes, we proceeded.

Huh, so they haven't actually made the mod yet. I had thought that they were doing sb first, we will see. And yeah, R46s are bad. I was trapped behind one on my way down the express earlier too; we did 25 from 36 St interlocking to Jackson Heights (and then dwelled so long at JH that we got speed to FH). 

Interesting to see that they held you at the home there. That's sorta rare. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by RR503

[Union Tpke]

34 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Huh, so they haven't actually made the mod yet. I had thought that they were doing sb first, we will see. And yeah, R46s are bad. I was trapped behind one on my way down the express earlier too; we did 25 from 36 St interlocking to Jackson Heights (and then dwelled so long at JH that we got speed to FH). 

Interesting to see that they held you at the home there. That's sorta rare. 

This was northbound.

[RR503]

3 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

 This was northbound.

Yes, understood, I'm saying the first I heard of the QB GT mods was one on the southbound side.