Why Your Subway Train Might Start Moving Faster

[Union Tpke]

@RR503 What do you make of this?

Screen Shot 2020-01-17 at 2.11.54 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

[CenSin]

5 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

@RR503 What do you make of this?

Screen Shot 2020-01-17 at 2.11.54 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

There’s just the elephant in the room… once trains perform better, will the MTA will nerf the runs by holding trains in stations? The problem is most apparent with the in Brooklyn. Anyone who takes it can attest to the fact that the MTA holds trains at express stations, slowing down the commute.

[RR503]

19 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

@RR503 What do you make of this?

Screen Shot 2020-01-17 at 2.11.54 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

This is SOP with CBTC -- it allows faster acceleration and braking to be set to basically whatever level. Already CBTC operates trains significantly faster than does fixed blocks; here's to that being expanded. 

13 hours ago, CenSin said:

There’s just the elephant in the room… once trains perform better, will the MTA will nerf the runs by holding trains in stations? The problem is most apparent with the in Brooklyn. Anyone who takes it can attest to the fact that the MTA holds trains at express stations, slowing down the commute.

Would you rather the train sit outside the terminal for 10 minutes a la ? It's annoying, but until runtimes are stable and the agency can find the resources to rewrite schedules to reflect runtime gains, this is what we've got. 

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

There is a new-looking 30 Miles sign on the 71 ave bound QBL local track just after leaving 36th St. Was this always a 30 mile zone or has the limit been increased? I know the curve after Steinway recently went from 23 to 30. 

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Hat tip to @Dj Hammers for posting this video

The Church Ave interlocking has been modified and some one shot DGTs were removed on the southbound local track

 

[Tricknologist]

Prior to that, some of the more courteous tower operators would’ve just set the switch straight after a  went into the relay. 

[Union Tpke]

12 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Hat tip to @Dj Hammers for posting this video

The Church Ave interlocking has been modified and some one shot DGTs were removed on the southbound local track

 

@RR503 I am sure you are happy to hear this!

[RR503]

4 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

@RR503 I am sure you are happy to hear this!

Yes I am! They also modded the signals on the LL I'm told to make the relay op more efficient. 

[Union Tpke]

3 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Yes I am! They also modded the signals on the LL I'm told to make the relay op more efficient. 

Excellent! Is there anything they can do to fix the damage they have done at Continental?

[CenSin]

On 3/3/2020 at 11:16 AM, Union Tpke said:

Excellent! Is there anything they can do to fix the damage they have done at Continental?

Or Jay Street–MetroTech. I noticed trains flying in so fast, they could blow your clothes off in 2008. They don’t do that anymore.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Can anyone confirm if the speed over the switches leaving Whitehall St n/b have had their speed limit increased? Anecdotally and (w) trains seem to go faster leaving the station, even from the middle track

[R32 3838]

On 3/3/2020 at 11:16 AM, Union Tpke said:

Excellent! Is there anything they can do to fix the damage they have done at Continental?

THIS!!!!!! when they modified those signals, it made everything worse.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

9 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

THIS!!!!!! when they modified those signals, it made everything worse.

I don't ride Queens Boulevard that often, but when I do, I take the  to Jamaica for the LIRR during rush hour. I always notice like 5  and  trains between Jackson Heights and Forest Hills. Is that what yall are referring to? Why is it a mess over there?

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

6 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I don't ride Queens Boulevard that often, but when I do, I take the  to Jamaica for the LIRR during rush hour. I always notice like 5  and  trains between Jackson Heights and Forest Hills. Is that what yall are referring to? Why is it a mess over there?

One shot DGTs (Diverging Grade Timers) are active on the local track when the switch is set for the Forest Hills relay. This causes slower speeds entering the station. Combined with high dwell time at the terminal, congestion often results. 

They fixed this at Church Ave on the by having the switch set to straight after each train and removing the same kind of DGTs so trains can at least enter faster. 

[RR503]

On 3/4/2020 at 5:21 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Can anyone confirm if the speed over the switches leaving Whitehall St n/b have had their speed limit increased? Anecdotally and (w) trains seem to go faster leaving the station, even from the middle track

Yes.

On 3/3/2020 at 11:16 AM, Union Tpke said:

Excellent! Is there anything they can do to fix the damage they have done at Continental?

They could do force and lock, but your switch maint budget would go way up with it moving after every movement through. I personally think the DGTs are bad, but the 80/20 at Forest Hills is in dwell times -- DGTs add 16 seconds to entrance times, while terminal dwells can be anywhere from 45s-120s.

[Union Tpke]

Do you have any idea why they finally decided to fix Church?

[RR503]

2 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Do you have any idea why they finally decided to fix Church?

 and  terminating there for Culver CBTC IINM. 

[Around the Horn]

I have no idea how signal architecture works but is it possible to simply not set the switch for the relay at Forest Hills until the train has already stopped in the station, thus "disabling" the DGTs?

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

18 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I have no idea how signal architecture works but is it possible to simply not set the switch for the relay at Forest Hills until the train has already stopped in the station, thus "disabling" the DGTs?

That is what @RR503 is referring to when he says Force and Lock. Also described in my post above. It works at Church Ave because the switch in question moves all the time anyway. 

Going back to the DGTs though, I noticed an interesting behavior at Roosevelt Ave with the ST (Station Timers) and DGTs there during a GO. It is as follows

• enters on the express track, switch is set to normal, no timers active. Home signal is at stop, no route set
• then punches for the local and departs, switching to the local track at the prescribed speed. During this time an pulls up short of the station on ST
• enters on ST20s that are displayed on mid station semiautomatics (Red over lunar 20). The switch is still in the diverging position
• Instead of clearing to yellow, the lunar 20 becomes just a lunar ball, thus dropping to a DGT at the posted speed (lower than 20)
• proceeds to the end of the platform, clearing the DGTs at the slower than posted speed. Home signal is at stop. 
• punches for the express, switch returns to normal, and the then departs. 

Why would this happen if the (e) following was stopped and thus supposedly clear the more restrictive DGT speed? And why are the signals allowed to drop to a more restrictive DGT aspect with a lower speed than the ST in this location?

Similarly, at Forest Hills, if there is a train going into the relay with another one right behind it (stopped), couldnt the follower satisfy the lower DGT speed just byholding outside the station? Would it improve the situation to put in such logic if DGTs are really needed?

 

[Union Tpke]

@RR503 Do you know if any additional speed increases have taken place?

[Jsunflyguy]

5 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

@RR503 Do you know if any additional speed increases have taken place?

I hear dwell times have been phenomenal lately.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

In the March 25 NYCT committee board docs, the February recap mentioned "another effort is underway to assess opportunities for increased speeds to see additional runtime benefits", pdf page 6

SPEED lives on!

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

3 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

In the March 25 NYCT committee board docs, the February recap mentioned "another effort is underway to assess opportunities for increased speeds to see additional runtime benefits", pdf page 6

SPEED lives on!

Until the  does consistent 45+ mph the CPW, 8th Ave and under Fulton St through the entire express run then I won't be happy. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by XcelsiorBoii4888

[Lex]

8 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Until the  does consistent 45+ mph the CPW, 8th Ave and under Fulton St through the entire express run then I won't be happy. 

Don't expect too much from the portion south of 59th Street.

[RR503]

7 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Until the  does consistent 45+ mph the CPW, 8th Ave and under Fulton St through the entire express run then I won't be happy. 

CBTC will take care of 8th and Fulton, but you can't really do anything about the timers on CPW. Whatever you may think of their implementation, they do indeed serve real safety functions!