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Union Tpke

1991 Service Plan + 63rd Street Service Plan

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Wow, 4 seats for every 3 passengers on the subway! If we had those kinds of loading guidelines today, 40% of my gripes with the subway would be absolved right then and there.

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5 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Wow, 4 seats for every 3 passengers on the subway! If we had those kinds of loading guidelines today, 40% of my gripes with the subway would be absolved right then and there.

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So there was a time when 10-car trains were rush-hour only?

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F (Culver Line)
Weekday-Rush Hours
Peak Period Speed Improvements

Rapid Service

Operating Statistics: Total AM .Peak Hour Riders: 20,360

A. Description of Current Service;
During rush hours, the "F" operates between 179th Street, Queens and Stillwell Avenue, Brooklyn providing Queens Boulevard express service, 6th Avenue local service and Culver local service. The "G" train operates between 71st-Continental Avenue and Smith/9th Streets, turning on the southbound express track at 4th Avenue.

B. Description of Proposed Adjustment:
During rush hours, alternate "F" trains would operate express in both directions between Jay Street and Church Avenue. The "G" south terminal would be relocated to Bergen Street.

C. Passenger Impacts/Alternative Service;
Travel time will be reduced up to five minutes. Approximately 11,600 AM peak hour passengers would benefit with the provision of Culver express service. 8,730 passengers would experience a reduction of service at local stations, although this would be partially mitigated by the ability

to get a seat at southern local stations (e.g. Fort Hamilton Parkway) or transfer to the express at 7th Avenue. In addition, delays in southboundlocal service may occur due to the "G" turning on the local track at Bergen Street.

 

 

 

 

L (Canarsie Line)
Weekday
Peak Period Speed Improvements

Rapid Service

Operating Statistics;Total AM Peak Riders: 15,000

A. Description of Current Service:
The "L" operates as a local from Rockaway Parkway to 8th Avenue at all times. There are 24 stops and the peak travel time is 41 minutes from end

to end.
B. Description of Proposed Adjustment;

Two services, "L" and "K" would operate in skip-stop service during the peak 60 minutes. Both "L" and "K" trains would stop at key transfer and high volume stations, including: Rockaway Parkway, Eastern Parkway, Myrtle Av, Lorimer St, First Av, Union Sq., Sixth Av, and Eighth Av, "L"trains would stop at E 105 St, Livonia Av, Atlantic Av, Wilson Av, DeKalb Av, Morgan Av, Grand Av, and Bedford Av, "K" trains would stop at New Lots Av, Sutter Av, Bushwick Av, Halsey St, Jefferson St, Montrose Av, Graham Av and 3rd Av,

Service
Travel times will be reduced up to four minutes

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22 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I’m a bit confused at what I’m looking at. Could you Elaborate please?

These include the 1991 Service Cuts Plan, the Archer and 63rd service plans, and other related documents. What don't you understand?

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1 minute ago, shiznit1987 said:

Just to help everyone out: On the first link the subway related stuff starts @ page 419 on the PDF

Sorry about that. I had to rush to post the links before shabbat came in on Friday, and I have work to do.

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The best move was the S/79 change from St. George Terminal to Brooklyn. The route is one of the top local routes in terms of ridership on the island and the only SBS on the island.

I remember when it first started running to Brooklyn and saw as a rider how the number of riders increased at all hours that I rode the route. It is a real success story in terms of transit ridership.

As far as skip=stop on the Canarsie Line,,thankfully, it is buried under the subject of changes that should have never made into print. 

 

 

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Great. Now I've got to redraw all of my 1991 maps. Thanks a bunch. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, nice finds here.

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43 minutes ago, Lance said:

Great. Now I've got to redraw all of my 1991 maps. Thanks a bunch. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, nice finds here.

Thanks! I look forward to your maps.

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On 12/15/2018 at 6:54 PM, Union Tpke said:

F (Culver Line)
Weekday-Rush Hours
Peak Period Speed Improvements

Rapid Service

Operating Statistics: Total AM .Peak Hour Riders: 20,360

A. Description of Current Service;
During rush hours, the "F" operates between 179th Street, Queens and Stillwell Avenue, Brooklyn providing Queens Boulevard express service, 6th Avenue local service and Culver local service. The "G" train operates between 71st-Continental Avenue and Smith/9th Streets, turning on the southbound express track at 4th Avenue.

B. Description of Proposed Adjustment:
During rush hours, alternate "F" trains would operate express in both directions between Jay Street and Church Avenue. The "G" south terminal would be relocated to Bergen Street.

C. Passenger Impacts/Alternative Service;
Travel time will be reduced up to five minutes. Approximately 11,600 AM peak hour passengers would benefit with the provision of Culver express service. 8,730 passengers would experience a reduction of service at local stations, although this would be partially mitigated by the ability

to get a seat at southern local stations (e.g. Fort Hamilton Parkway) or transfer to the express at 7th Avenue. In addition, delays in southboundlocal service may occur due to the "G" turning on the local track at Bergen Street.

 

 

 

 

L (Canarsie Line)
Weekday
Peak Period Speed Improvements

Rapid Service

Operating Statistics;Total AM Peak Riders: 15,000

A. Description of Current Service:
The "L" operates as a local from Rockaway Parkway to 8th Avenue at all times. There are 24 stops and the peak travel time is 41 minutes from end

to end.
B. Description of Proposed Adjustment;

Two services, "L" and "K" would operate in skip-stop service during the peak 60 minutes. Both "L" and "K" trains would stop at key transfer and high volume stations, including: Rockaway Parkway, Eastern Parkway, Myrtle Av, Lorimer St, First Av, Union Sq., Sixth Av, and Eighth Av, "L"trains would stop at E 105 St, Livonia Av, Atlantic Av, Wilson Av, DeKalb Av, Morgan Av, Grand Av, and Bedford Av, "K" trains would stop at New Lots Av, Sutter Av, Bushwick Av, Halsey St, Jefferson St, Montrose Av, Graham Av and 3rd Av,

Service
Travel times will be reduced up to four minutes

Thankfully, they did not do this.

What should have been done (eventually, and I still think eventually should) would have been (and something I would have done ahead of the (L) shutdown to rebuild Bergen LL to handle revenue service again along with a new OOS transfer point between the two sides to accommodate those going in one direction on the (G) and other on the (F).  That way, the (F) or in the future another service can run express even if the (G) has to be the sole local. 

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Right idea, wrong reasons.

Culver express service would have nothing to do with Canarsie beyond freeing up some space for the additional (G) trains required, so it makes no sense to include it for the shutdown. The reactivation of the lower level at Bergen St is a boon for those in the area looking for Manhattan-bound service that would be lost or reduced if the MTA ever were to restore Culver express service.

As for an out-of-system transfer there, who are the intended users here? Coming from the south, it's not an issue as there is nothing preventing such a transfer. From the north, riders will more than likely transfer between the (F) > (A)(C) > (G) if they're coming from 6th Avenue and are vying for Crosstown. The same is true inversely. I doubt many are going to exit the Bergen St station, cross the street to reenter the subway all to avoid the intermediate leg there which is only one stop.

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34 minutes ago, Lance said:

Right idea, wrong reasons.

Culver express service would have nothing to do with Canarsie beyond freeing up some space for the additional (G) trains required, so it makes no sense to include it for the shutdown. The reactivation of the lower level at Bergen St is a boon for those in the area looking for Manhattan-bound service that would be lost or reduced if the MTA ever were to restore Culver express service.

As for an out-of-system transfer there, who are the intended users here? Coming from the south, it's not an issue as there is nothing preventing such a transfer. From the north, riders will more than likely transfer between the (F) > (A)(C) > (G) if they're coming from 6th Avenue and are vying for Crosstown. The same is true inversely. I doubt many are going to exit the Bergen St station, cross the street to reenter the subway all to avoid the intermediate leg there which is only one stop.

I’m gonna disagree with you on that last point. Really throughout the day, one can end up waiting >5mins for (A)(C) at HS—it’s quite the point of failure in trip plans. Given that going up and over at Bergen is basically the same as transiting a mezzanine, I and others would certainly get good use out of it — especially given that Carroll is so inconvenient/slow.

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The (Q) train did run between Brighton Beach and 207th for a short time in 1989 via 6th During an asbestos shutdown of the 8th Ave line.

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26 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

The (Q) train did run between Brighton Beach and 207th for a short time in 1989 via 6th During an asbestos shutdown of the 8th Ave line.

Some time back, I posted a portion of the detailed NYCTA service change plan for that.

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On 12/20/2018 at 12:07 PM, RR503 said:

I’m gonna disagree with you on that last point. Really throughout the day, one can end up waiting >5mins for (A)(C) at HS—it’s quite the point of failure in trip plans. Given that going up and over at Bergen is basically the same as transiting a mezzanine, I and others would certainly get good use out of it — especially given that Carroll is so inconvenient/slow.

Exactly.  That OOS transfer between sides I suspect would get a ton of use if you have the (F) express at Bergen on the lower level. 

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19 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

Exactly.  That OOS transfer between sides I suspect would get a ton of use if you have the (F) express at Bergen on the lower level. 

And as usual before I even finish reading after the bold i deem it unworthy of reading on.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain
Added more bold

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On 12/20/2018 at 12:07 PM, RR503 said:

I’m gonna disagree with you on that last point. Really throughout the day, one can end up waiting >5mins for (A)(C) at HS—it’s quite the point of failure in trip plans. Given that going up and over at Bergen is basically the same as transiting a mezzanine, I and others would certainly get good use out of it — especially given that Carroll is so inconvenient/slow.

But that only makes sense for folks on an unlimited - 44% of us at last count. The other 56% would pay two fares doing that.

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50 minutes ago, Deucey said:

But that only makes sense for folks on an unlimited - 44% of us at last count. The other 56% would pay two fares doing that.

Which is why I was agreeing with Wally in saying OOS transfer between sides.

Not doubting your data here at all (having a convo about fare trends) but where did you get those figures on unlimited use? Would love to have...

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3 hours ago, RR503 said:

Which is why I was agreeing with Wally in saying OOS transfer between sides.

Not doubting your data here at all (having a convo about fare trends) but where did you get those figures on unlimited use? Would love to have...

Pretty sure I saw it somewhere on here.

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